Could War Elephants work in Fire Emblem?

[Valmese Soldier]

I was watching Lord of the Rings: Return of the King recently, and this idea came to me; despite not being true domestic animals, War Elephants were a very powerful force to reckon with in ancient and medieval warfare. With me being a FE fan, I thought that maybe if it could work, a War Elephant would be a very interesting unit-they would effectively be mobile fortresses.

Here's how I think they would work: because they are so massive, War Elephants would take up 4 spaces, and on their back they would have a unit wielding a lance, an archer unit, and a unit that throws Spears. I think it would be very disappointing and a missed opportunity if the Elephant itself wasn't used as an enemy, so it would use it's tusks that are attached with swords as a move which is either sword-type or lance type (since they are long like Lances), but I would say sword-type because I think a long pole weapon would be the best kind of melee weapon if you were faced against one of these.

The War Elephant's stats would be very high HP, Atk, and Def, decent luck (maybe a high luck stat if Elephants are considered good luck in some cultures), okay resistance, good skill, but low speed. It would move either 5-7 spaces. If you take the Elephant down, you could also take its riders down with it, but this should be very hard to do because of how much help they give it.

The War Elephant would also function as a movable high ground, which gives all projectile enemies on top of it at least 1 additional space that their projectile would cover; this means that an enemy with a Spear would cover up to at least 3 spaces, and an enemy unit with a Longbow (because they would have to appear in late-game anyway) would cover up to at least 4 spaces. The Lance wielder would always dual-attack with the War Elephant (another reason why I think that a War Elephant's attack should function as sword-type). If you try to hit it from a distance, you'd also have to deal with the Spear-thrower and Sniper who are highly likely to dual-attack you.

I am thinking that because of how powerful they are meant to be, War Elephants should be enemy-only units. The first War Elephant you'd meet would probably be only one as a boss or with the boss riding it, but very late in the game the enemy army could have many War Elephants supported by infantry. In ancient and medieval warfare, the sight of War Elephants was enough to terrify an enemy army and lower morale, they could take on a whole bunch of an enemies soldiers at the same time, so I'd like War Elephants in FE to give the player that feeling of a very intimidating giant walking fortress that they'd really have to strategize in order to take down. However, since Elephants are intelligent animals, they could work where you might be able to recruit an Elephant rider and have the Elephant as a character with some personality (esp. in the supports with their rider), and plus, wouldn't it just be totally satisfying to rampage on your enemy with a gigantic beast and have a mobile fortress of your own?

Edited December 22, 2017 by Valmese Soldier

[Slumber]

Not unless FE starts taking more inspiration from south/east Asia. But since nearly all of them take place in a mythical magic Medieval not-Europe(And now with Fates, one-time feudal not-Japan), War Elephants would seem out of place.

Shadows of Valentia does have the Oliphantier, but they still ride a horse. Just one wearing armor that makes it look like an elephant.

I could see it being used by an invading enemy force, but it'd have to stay as an enemy unit. I'd prefer if they didn't start adding in a shit ton of different playable mounts. I'm already not quite sure if I want Griffons to be in the games, and I flat out never want to see the stupid Kinshi bird again. And elephant might be a step too far.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Slumber

[Mega Koopa]

I mean, Fire Emblem has already had Elephants.

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Valmese Soldier said:

The War Elephant's stats would be very high HP, Atk, and Def, decent luck (maybe a high luck stat if Elephants are considered good luck in some cultures), okay resistance, good skill, but low speed. It would move either 5-7 spaces. If you take the Elephant down, you could also take its riders down with it, but this should be very hard to do because of how much help they give it.

The War Elephant would also function as a movable high ground, which gives all projectile enemies on top of it at least 1 additional space that their projectile would cover; this means that an enemy with a Spear would cover up to at least 3 spaces, and an enemy unit with a Longbow (because they would have to appear in late-game anyway) would cover up to at least 4 spaces. The Lance wielder would always dual-attack with the War Elephant (another reason why I think that a War Elephant's attack should function as sword-type). If you try to hit it from a distance, you'd also have to deal with the Spear-thrower and Sniper who are highly likely to dual-attack you.

You clearly have even less of a concept of good unit balance than IS, seeing as this would make them too over-powered. So, no, I wouldn't like to see any War Elephants in any future FE.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, it's an interesting idea. I would so like to see something like a War Elephant. Even if it was like one or two, and in just few chapters.

The same kinda novelty when Sacred Stones had a chapter where you could attack actual ships. Those Fleet enemies were one-tile big, only had 1 Mov, and they attacked with a ballistae. There were only like 2 of them, and you never encountered them again outside that one chapter.

Considering that... sure, why wouldn't something like War Elephants work in FE? After having actual ships as enemies, what are mere elephants?

 

[Hawkwing]

Only if it fit the setting, and if IS uses the same method that Civilization does with its special units, where a more powerful replacement of a generic unit is available to certain nations (I.e. Americans getting B-17's instead of normal bombers, Romans getting Centurions instead of swordmen, and India gets, well, war elephants). I could see this as a way to add uniqueness and memorability to each nation, which is something that Fire Emblem currently lacks.

Otherwise... I would like a few other classes before we get war elephants. Where are my sword wielding griffon riders!

[Jotari]

21 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You clearly have even less of a concept of good unit balance than IS, seeing as this would make them too over-powered. So, no, I wouldn't like to see any War Elephants in any future FE.

Well they did say they would be enemy only. A class being over powered isn't an issue for balance if the player can't use it. Then it's just a particular obstacle that the player has to work around, like Faceless or those boats in Scard Stones. That being said, I would be pretty disapointed if War Elephans did become a thing in Fire Emblem and I couldn't use one.

[NinjaMonkey]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well they did say they would be enemy only. A class being over powered isn't an issue for balance if the player can't use it.

I meant that it would be an overpowered as an enemy unit.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, then it's just a matter of there being a proper balance. But for something like FE... Anyway, that should not detract from the concept itself, I would think. As an aside, if I could give my input on how War Elephants could be handled in FE, I'd do it thusly:

I'd see them in use if the hypothetical game still uses something like pair-up. Basically, the elephants would always appear paired-up, the other unit being something with range (archer, mage, javelin or hand-axe user, etc), to simulate the fact they were like mobile attack towers. The elephant would always support defend the other unit of any 1-range grounded attack. The War Elephant itself would have high HP, Def, and maybe Str. Low points would be Spd and maybe Res. They'd have only 2 move or so to counter their bulkyness.

Something like that, as a start.

[edgelordweeaboo]

i'd like to see it implemented into a class if the game took place in a setting based off india/southeast asia. it would be like a normal mounted class that still only took up one space because of balance but it would have low movement. the class could have lances and bows or some shit and it would be a super bulky class but very slow. 

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I meant that it would be an overpowered as an enemy unit.

Overpowered enemy units don't break game balance, so long as they have the tools to defeat them. Powerful enemies are the reason we hoard our Silver Swords and holy weapons. What the OP described is a unit that excels in everything but speed. That is something we've seen countless times before in the series with Barons and Manaketes and other such classes. Even regular boss units fulfill the same niche as the suggested war elephant. They also have a massive weakness that the OP didn't mention, or, perhaps, didn't notice. Taking up four squares on the map means that they can get attacked from a lot more angles.

[NinjaMonkey]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Even regular boss units fulfill the same niche as the suggested war elephant.

Regular bosses aren't two units in one.

Quote

The War Elephant would also function as a movable high ground, which gives all projectile enemies on top of it at least 1 additional space that their projectile would cover; this means that an enemy with a Spear would cover up to at least 3 spaces, and an enemy unit with a Longbow (because they would have to appear in late-game anyway) would cover up to at least 4 spaces. The Lance wielder would always dual-attack with the War Elephant (another reason why I think that a War Elephant's attack should function as sword-type). If you try to hit it from a distance, you'd also have to deal with the Spear-thrower and Sniper who are highly likely to dual-attack you.

Not only do you have to deal with the elephant itself, but it's rider as well,  and with a permanent dual-attack, which sounds awfully shitty to me.

[John Denver Fan]

I think it would be a good idea.

Here's my position on it: It would be like a tankier form of the horse.

[Tetragrammaton]

On 12/24/2017 at 7:22 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

Regular bosses aren't two units in one.

Not only do you have to deal with the elephant itself, but it's rider as well,  and with a permanent dual-attack, which sounds awfully shitty to me.

You need more than 1 person to ride and fight on an elephant.

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:03 AM, hanhnn said:

You need more than 1 person to ride and fight on an elephant.

I could say the same about horses, pegasi and wyverns, but you don't see more than one person on them, do you?

[IfIHadToPickADude]

On 12/28/2017 at 8:36 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

I could say the same about horses, pegasi and wyverns, but you don't see more than one person on them, do you?

That's because horses, pegasi, and Fire Emblem wyverns are at a size where one person can reasonably fight and control them. To ask a person to do that on an elephant is insane. You need someone to control the elephant while another fights.

Anyway, the concept is interesting. I always wanted a Fire Emblem that isn't clearly inspired from Medieval Europe.