BBM Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Votals 1.6 Dr. Crowler (5): Titania Andersen, The Batter, Mello, Endeavor, Toshio Ozaki Endeavor (4): Faye Valentine, Rick, Kokichi Ouma Mello (3): Beast, Dr. Crowler, Omar Little Faye Valentine (1): Lapis Lazuli Titania Andersen (1): Mercenary Kratos Not Voting (1): Nagito Komaeda Around 4 and a half hours left in the phase. 8 votes to hammer. Looking for a sub for Dr. Crowler... Edited January 6, 2018 by BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Endeavor said: You saw my posts up till this point and you genuinely thought I knew the meta behind picking roles? My thoughts are you're either a scummy role (Strongman/Ninja) claiming to be Vanilla (especially after I claimed that Crowler's claim was more likely to come from town), you got ninja'd picking a scummy role by the SK, or you're town who genuinely doesn't know what to do. Hmm...your response to my case was good, though, so out of appreciation for that. ##Unvote ##Vote: Dr. Crawler Please do more in the future, though. 3 hours ago, Rick said: My gut tells me Endeavor is scum, but Crowler's last post set off a lot of alarms in my head. My past feelings still triumph, and I would still prefer us to lynch Endeavor, but I am not averse to Crowler's lynch anymore. I'm biased maybe because this is a partial past read, but I still fine lynching Endeavor. I don't particularly see anything alignment indicative about his claim and nothing about his last post has improved my opinion on him (esp. since now he's gunning for his opposing lynch wagon when he wasn't before). With regards to Crowler, I was actually okay with him up until his claim post. I just don't like that the way he claimed. He basically said, "hey, I'm subbing out, but I'm vanilla townie so it's ok if you lynch me" which could be reverse psychology to NOT lynch him because of that. Ironically, I think a post Komaeda makes in favor of town!Crowler actually makes him feel more scum to me. But didn't Crowler already say they are requesting a sub? And now you're oddly reluctant to lynch him. Insert the :thinking: emoji. Also you wouldn't lynch a vanilla claim? I'm probably misinterpreting your words, but I feel like you contradicted yourself here. I feel that your thought process is authentic but I'm afraid even my large brain can't follow your hopeful logic process. Can you explain why Crowler's last post set off a lot of alarms in your read? Perhaps the ones in mine were simply set to Sleep because I didn't get the same impression. I don't think Endeavor's claim was alignment relevant either but what do you think of his response to my case? I do agree that his vote on the opposing wagon is convenient, but he'd be voting there regardless of alignment. Is that just WIFOM or do you think it's more likely to come from scum? What if we were in cahoots the whole time? Wouldn't that be a hoot? But if you want to call out my reluctance to lynch Dr. Crowler, you're going to have to go back further than that, my friend! I've been back and forth on his slot the whole time, but at the moment I feel more confident in him flipping scum than Endeavor (who as at least adequately responded to my issues on him). That's an interesting thought process you've got there! I definitely should have chosen my wording better, but I meant that I thought the vanilla claim in Crowler's specific situation was more likely to come from town. You mentioned that it bothered you, though, so I'm interested in where you're coming from on this one. 3 hours ago, Rick said: Do you think that one of the sub outs is scum because they're getting subbed out, or because you thought one of them was scum before this? It's kind of unclear from your wording, and I hope for your sake (or at least my perception on yourself), that it's the latter. I don't really follow if it's the former point.I agree with the latter with regards to who should be placed under scrutiny tomorrow. Toshio not as much, but especially Kratos. The feeling when you actually brought up the Kratos point first but your brilliant ideas never get attributed to you, feels bad man... I actually marked in my (admittedly early!) notes that I had one of Mello/Kratos were probably scum (but not both), so I'm most concerned with him. @Mercenary Kratos Titania didn't ping you, so I'm afraid you'll miss this otherwise and I'd really like this answered. I'm most interested in hearing your thoughts about Mello (the before and after too, if the identity-slip changes your opinion). You've seemed a little complacent with regards to the wagons "I'll switch to Endeavor before phase ends", but you've expressed sorta that you would vote Mello (this was a while back, in the post where you said you'd sheep Toshio's case on them), so I thought you scumread them. I just would like an answer about your complacency, because even though the majority of the votes are on Endeavor, it doesn't mean 100% we are lynching them; for example, the Batter is batting (ok, you can shoot me now) for Crowler to get lynched over Endeavor. In my limited experience, scum tends to sub out a lot more in OC than they do in NOC. I was also scumreading Faye in the first place, but it's...difficult to be sure of that read when it's based on one post. I just don't like how they explicitly mentioned they would be able to make more posts and then didn't follow up on it. Apologies for not properly citing your brilliant idea! That must happen a lot for a person of your scientific caliber. Again, it seems someone of my talent has problems conveying information. Kratos is above Toshio for sure, because he's done something that genuinely bothered me. I don't have any issues w/Toshio's slot but I kind of want him to get pressured so I can get a stronger read on him. Don't worry, your despair at being potentially lynched will be a stepping stone for your own hope in the future! 3 hours ago, Toshio Ozaki said: @Nagito Komaeda Are those opinions of Crowler's really enough? His opinion of Kratos seems entirely based around Kratos tunnelling and then stopping, when Kratos didn't really tunnel. He didn't ask for more from The Batter until he was asked for an opinion of the Batter. Iunno maybe I'm being unnecessarily critical of their opinions on D1. The Batter thinking Endeavor is town makes me want to lynch Crowler more too because I trust their townreading ability. I also think Crowler is scummy based on their meta, they have a hard time forming opinions D1 and are very team oriented and are more likely to sub out. #AnonMeta They were at the time. Basically my thoughts were that it made sense for him to hold onto opinions that didn't add much value to the game (as you mentioned yourself), so I can see why he gave weaker reads when pressed? If that makes any sense. I still see Dr. Crowler's claim as more likely to come from town, but I also don't personally have any play related issues with Endeavor's slot, so that's where I'm voting. If you have an idea of who Dr. Crowler is, then you should know what I'm saying when I believe the act of subbing out itself wasn't alignment relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 *In my limited experience, scum tends to sub out a lot more in Anonymous than they do in Not Anonymous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Apologies for doing quote blocks not once, but twice! I'll refrain from doing so in the future, I know how obnoxious those can be to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 ^^^ Why was Endeavor's response good? For example, This was a line in your original case: Quote "why are you bothered by me/Dr. Crawler making easy votes, Beast is even worse!" is scum logic. This is his response: Quote I didn't have a problem with Toshio being bothered by me and Crawler, I was bothered by the fact he didn't seem to mind someone doing the same thing. Is he not just admitting that that was his case? That he was bothered by me giving beast a pass for something that I claimed he/Dr Crowler were doing? I mean, I don't even think the original logic IS scum logic so if you could clarify why you think that that would be appreciated. I feel like I'm misunderstanding something here at the very least. If you could just explain in a bit of detail what you liked about Endeavor's recent post or why what bothers other people is incorrect that would be great. Why are you voting Crowler if you think their claim is more likely to come from town? Like, what happened to this: Quote Vanilla claims aren't nearly strong enough to be stepping stones for town, and I'm not lynching it. There's no benefit to Scum!Crowler claiming vanilla in this situation. "I'm not lynching it" didn't last very long. You already knew that Crowler was subbing out so if it's because scum are more likely to sub out in scum games then why do you later tell me that he his subbing is alignment unindicative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Do you have any other scumreads other than Endeavor or Dr Crowler? It feels very weird that you defaulted to someone who you said you would never lynch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 Faye Valentine has been subbed out. The new player will be using the same account/alias but will probably not contribute until D2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 ^^^^Lynch Faye for being scum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Toshio Ozaki said: Is he not just admitting that that was his case? That he was bothered by me giving beast a pass for something that I claimed he/Dr Crowler were doing? I mean, I don't even think the original logic IS scum logic so if you could clarify why you think that that would be appreciated. I feel like I'm misunderstanding something here at the very least. If you could just explain in a bit of detail what you liked about Endeavor's recent post or why what bothers other people is incorrect that would be great. Why are you voting Crowler if you think their claim is more likely to come from town? Like, what happened to this: "I'm not lynching it" didn't last very long. You already knew that Crowler was subbing out so if it's because scum are more likely to sub out in scum games then why do you later tell me that he his subbing is alignment unindicative? It reads as him saying your views are inconsistent over him saying that you're being unfair to him. That also was not my biggest issue with his slot. Sure, sure! Anything I can do to help you pillars of Hope out. I didn't expect that my other two scumreads would dry up so fast at the time! I was so sure I'd be ending D1 voting Mello, whether or not he got lynched. To clarify, I believe Dr. Crowler is genuinely busy, and I don't believe that him subbing out has anything to do w/whether or not he's scum. Just now, Toshio Ozaki said: Do you have any other scumreads other than Endeavor or Dr Crowler? It feels very weird that you defaulted to someone who you said you would never lynch? Faye (but that hasn't been a scumread I could push). Actually, I'm not even scumreading Endeavor anymore... I never said that I'd never lynch it...maybe it's just a misinterpretation, but you're changing my wording to be much stronger than it was. Nothing I posted ever implied that my conviction was that strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Heya guy I am in! So, a few things to note, I will be scummy and not post anythingelse today, I will be further scummy and focus on ongoing days while looking at older posts only while game is moving slowly And I will take being scummy further by not posts too many times a day Thanks for understanding~ Or can come at me and we can have a fun time~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Faye is a bad lynch though. One of the major points of contention with this slot is how he ignored Beast's read post. I feel slightly better about him saying that he noticed the post but held off on analyzing it as opposed to sheeping Batter's reasoning (which is that he didn't notice the post at all). The reasoning behind his Beast vote was good, even though I personally feel like he's dismissing Beast's reads way too easily here. The tone in his response to his case with me is good! I'm not the only one seeing this, right? This is something that I'm not making up, right? This line in particular "My vote on Beast and Crawlers have different reasoning. I actually point out scum intent in Beasts posts, Crawler is just going after an inactive player as a pressure vote and swapping his vote when he's getting flak for it." is what I'm talking about. Honestly, the only thing that makes me less sure is that his response to Kokichi is passive aggressive as hell (and that's coming from me, so you know I'm a position of authority on the subject) and feels like it doesn't actually address anything. Rereading his Crawler read, I'm actually less bothered by it, if possible. If I was being lynched as town, this is exactly the kind of player I'd be looking for; I don't think there's anything wrong w/Endeavor voting someone who's mentioned suspicion on him but ends up fencesitting on the slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 The entire paragraph above is about @Endeavor, not Faye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Nagito Komaeda said: I never said that I'd never lynch it...maybe it's just a misinterpretation, but you're changing my wording to be much stronger than it was. Nothing I posted ever implied that my conviction was that strong. "Vanilla claims aren't nearly strong enough to be stepping stones for town, I'm not lynching it." is not changing your wording. Thanks to your RP its more definitive than probably anything else you've said this phase. The explanation about why you liked Endeavor is good. Is your only real scumread Faye then? My impression is that you've defaulted to Dr Crowler because Faye is a bad lynch and you don't find Endeavor scummy, and your Mello read dried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I'm here, reading now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, Toshio Ozaki said: "Vanilla claims aren't nearly strong enough to be stepping stones for town, I'm not lynching it." is not changing your wording. Thanks to your RP its more definitive than probably anything else you've said this phase. The explanation about why you liked Endeavor is good. Is your only real scumread Faye then? My impression is that you've defaulted to Dr Crowler because Faye is a bad lynch and you don't find Endeavor scummy, and your Mello read dried out. I'm not lynching it is different I'll never lynch it. It means that I didn't want to lynch him this phase. Well, I'd like to think that even someone as worthless as I has had strong opinions at times, even on D1! You're not wrong on your second point. However, while it is true that I'm defaulting to Dr. Crowler because he's the lesser of three evils (or would that be greater of three evils, hmm...), I do still have legitimate issues w/the slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 To clarify, I'd honestly be very comfortable w/voting Dr. Crowler but that claim is...I don't see the scum benefit to doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Titania Andersen said: Do you think that scum!Mello, a lynch candidate, is actively thinking about hunting for the SK/mafia as mafia/SK? It reads as genuine scumhunting to me and shows he's actively thinking about who is scum. Dismissing it as him hunting for the other scum strikes me as kind of tunneling, since you can dismiss any scumhunting someone does that way Like, yes, he could have genuinely made the mistake, but him being in the mindset to make that mistake in the first place is evidence that he is actively thinking about who is scum. No, you're probably right. I didn't think it through too much because I was in a hurry. My bad! Combined with Rick's identity slip point I agree that he's probably town because of this. Endie's explanation for not acknowledging Beast's post is lame, but I guess I get it. @Endeavor if you don't address Beast's content in your first post tomorrow though nothing will stop me from voting you. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, it's on you to prove your innocence. Isn't this the most exciting way of doing things? I think I hate hope-boy's recent posts but I'm going to split this so that it doesn't go too long. On another note I am currently distracted by Supreme Leader External Business and so my access around phase end will probably be limited. Sorry! Going to vote now so that we don't somehow miss hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kokichi Ouma said: Endie's explanation for not acknowledging Beast's post is lame, but I guess I get it. @Endeavor if you don't address Beast's content in your first post tomorrow though nothing will stop me from voting you. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, it's on you to prove your innocence. Isn't this the most exciting way of doing things? I think I hate hope-boy's recent posts but I'm going to split this so that it doesn't go too long. He did address it. It's fine if you hate me. I don't mind if my love is one sided. I'm somewhat of a die hard fan, you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 See how I didn't vote? It was just a bluff! ...Actually, I just forgot, but I didn't see Nagito's vote until now so I'm kind of glad that I didn't! I would've looked pretty silly. 1 hour ago, Nagito Komaeda said: In my limited experience, scum tends to sub out a lot more in [anonymous] than they do in [not anonymous]. I was also scumreading Faye in the first place, but it's...difficult to be sure of that read when it's based on one post. I just don't like how they explicitly mentioned they would be able to make more posts and then didn't follow up on it. Apologies for not properly citing your brilliant idea! That must happen a lot for a person of your scientific caliber. Isn't this a little bit strange? Are you trying too hard with this read, hope boy? I know someone of your talents can't be expected to do much, but how is thinking that you can be more active than you're actually able to be indicative of someone's alignment? It's not like we know that Faye has been active elsewhere, unless you're sitting on some kind of special evidence. That would be really convenient! But really, I doubt it. Cut by: 3 minutes ago, Nagito Komaeda said: He did address it. ... Okay, I really should not be playing mafia right now. I'm going to disappear for a little while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Kirisame Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Hi I'm here now, sorry that took longer than I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Kokichi Ouma said: Isn't this a little bit strange? Are you trying too hard with this read, hope boy? I know someone of your talents can't be expected to do much, but how is thinking that you can be more active than you're actually able to be indicative of someone's alignment? It's not like we know that Faye has been active elsewhere, unless you're sitting on some kind of special evidence. That would be really convenient! But really, I doubt it. She's been talking in the Scum QT nonstop and we can't get her to shut up! That's how I knew she was a sham all along! Yes, having that kind of special evidence would be convenient all right. My thought process was that 1) I believed scum would be more likely to sub out in her situation as opposed to town and 2) it read to me as the slot promising to deliver content and then never following up on it, but you're right that the second part is not alignment indicative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Endeavor's claim post is pretty good, his towniest post so far wrt Crowler I am bad at reading anon meta and subbing out when you're about to be lynched as any faction is really... ??? Don't really agree with Kokichi's criticism of Nagito. In my experience, as scum I could post more than I actually do, but posting as scum is scary and difficult so I don't, and I make up excuses and eventually sub out. This behavior isn't exclusive to me, and I think it's what Nagito is trying to say. That said, Faye was confirmed by the mod to have things going on, so I don't really want to speculate about this but idk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Do you guys wanna turbo Kratos. Last minute turbos on people who aren't around has never turned out poorly in the history of mafia on the website serenesforest.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 ^^We should not do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 But seriously where the fuck is Kratos? I was going to complain about how he's been totally unmemorable in the last half of the phase then I realized he hasn't even posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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