Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[C. C.]

idk like for example, your analysis of grim's post in your wallpost earlier- the fact that he brushed off sally cases is a fair point, but the rest of it is just pretty weak stuff. it was his D3 entry post IIRC so it makes sense for him to give an update on his townreads? PoE is totally valid on D3 after a flipped scum and an outed cop and a bunch of associative reads. hell I did it yesterday with even less info. I also don't think that post is even representative of his D1-D2 play because everyone's kind of in a rut right now (as you've pointed out).

cherrypicking is scummy because you focus in on one or two poor things while ignoring anything that doesn't support your narrative. it makes it very easy to push a case on anyone. "50 townie posts? who cares, here's this one bad post here" plus if you're town you're basically presupposing that the person you're trying to cherrypick stuff against is scum and hunting for things that fit that bill rather than deciding what to read them as after taking everything into account.

several people have brought up this SB thing now. SB playing a good scum game doesn't mean that doing townie things are now meaningless. if anyone could easily fake cases or act town then what's the point of anything except roles lol?

the thing is... you never said you didn't want to lynch Rumor? You just didn't mention her basically, until after the guilty when you said she was a townread. i generally think that the scummiest type of interaction, especially early on, is just avoiding saying much about a buddy, especially if one of them was someone who was a hot topic of discussion like Rumor.

also what you're doing here disagreeing with me is different from what grim is saying. here you're disagreeing with my content but with Grim you keep attacking his playstyle of relying on meta reads, which isn't disagreeing with his reads, it's disagreeing with his way of playing the game.

[Cú Chulainn]

1 minute ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

idk like for example, your analysis of grim's post in your wallpost earlier- the fact that he brushed off sally cases is a fair point, but the rest of it is just pretty weak stuff. it was his D3 entry post IIRC so it makes sense for him to give an update on his townreads? PoE is totally valid on D3 after a flipped scum and an outed cop and a bunch of associative reads. hell I did it yesterday with even less info. I also don't think that post is even representative of his D1-D2 play because everyone's kind of in a rut right now (as you've pointed out).

cherrypicking is scummy because you focus in on one or two poor things while ignoring anything that doesn't support your narrative. it makes it very easy to push a case on anyone. "50 townie posts? who cares, here's this one bad post here" plus if you're town you're basically presupposing that the person you're trying to cherrypick stuff against is scum and hunting for things that fit that bill rather than deciding what to read them as after taking everything into account.

several people have brought up this SB thing now. SB playing a good scum game doesn't mean that doing townie things are now meaningless. if anyone could easily fake cases or act town then what's the point of anything except roles lol?

the thing is... you never said you didn't want to lynch Rumor? You just didn't mention her basically, until after the guilty when you said she was a townread. i generally think that the scummiest type of interaction, especially early on, is just avoiding saying much about a buddy, especially if one of them was someone who was a hot topic of discussion like Rumor.

also what you're doing here disagreeing with me is different from what grim is saying. here you're disagreeing with my content but with Grim you keep attacking his playstyle of relying on meta reads, which isn't disagreeing with his reads, it's disagreeing with his way of playing the game.

First part is false, you are not required to update town reads.  Since when is that a thing needed to do? Scumhunting is the name of the game and finding scum is how you win the game. You do not need to post your town reads every 2 posts.  PoE is not valid D3 after a flipped scum and an outed cop.  Literally not valid.  There are so many things that can be variables in that situation that you can not even with 90% accuracy consistently PoE the game in that situation.  In fact most of the time when people say PoE they are using a PoE from their opinion, which as a matter of fact, is not an actual Process of Elimination.  Unless you somehow now more information than the rest of the game, your PoE is opinion based and at most an attempt at a logical guess.  Like literally WIFOM throwing out BS here, what if an Arsonist is in this game?  There's probably not but you wouldn't fucking know and they could literally just do that in a heartbeat.  Or just for example what if someone who's been heavily town this game actually turned out to be scum?  Hell what if scum just chose to not kill N0 and mess up all associative reads regarding the doc in an attempt to make the doc crumb who they protected so they could catch the doctor and kill them the following night?  In that situation Cagney wouldn't be clear and could very well be scum getting a free pass as town because of a play scum made on night 1.  You literally cannot PoE the game with that little information. You can only, at best, have your opinion on a logical guess at the situation at hand. Don't misinterpret that.

50 townie posts can be ruined by 1 scum post if your scum.  You know this to be a fact.  Cherrypicking is scummy in a situation that you literally ignore everything good the person did the entire game but I've commented on Grim's posts as early as day 1 and posted a dislike of him early on.  I've commented on his reads and his thoughts as well so saying I'm cherry-picking is a bad argument and wrong.

Except a lot of people here can fake cases and act town yet it's being brushed off like that doesn't ever happen.  What I'm attempting to say is that without roles you are going based of off Psychological arguments based on a persons Psyche.  And unless you have taking Psych classes going through college and are capable of breaking that stuff down you can not with 90% accuracy know how a person will react in any given scenario.

90% sure I said I didn't want to lynch them. If I didn't I at the very least said they were a town read.  And that should imply that I don't want to lynch them.  On the other hand of this argument, if I completely ignored Rumor as you seem to say I had, then as scum WHY THE FUCK WOULD I STATE THEY WERE A TOWN READ AFTER THEY HAVE A CLAIMED COP OUTING THEM IN THAT SITUATION?  Like what the fuck would be the logic in that?  Would I be playing to intentionally make myself look worse?  The logic behind that argument is bad as well.  I understand where you are coming from WRT avoiding a buddy is scummy because you just don't interact with them at all and it's a type of distancing.  But why would I ignore them to only state them as a town read after they are verified scum?  Like what?

You didn't even understand my comment about disagreement.  SMH.  I didn't even mention Grim specifically in my last post regarding that. So you apparently didn't even understand what I was talking about.  Like I wasn't even talking about Grim when I said that.  Let me reiterate:

Here I'm not the one in a disagreement, you came forward first and posted a disagreement with my voting process.  You stated you disagreed or didn't believe that I should vote Cala > wally for the reasons I posted.  I brought forth a counter argument as to why I did such.  This is a disagreement.

What I was stating was WRT the fact that people have specifically stated my cases on people are solely because "I don't agree with them." or "I don't understand them." When those have not been at all what my cases have been about.  Yet that is what most people have said my cases have been.

[Cú Chulainn]

Was trying to wait for the next post but I'm going to bed, it's 3 am. I also will probably work on tuesday morning so yeah.

I'll be on tomorrow.

[C. C.]

ok I misunderstood what you meant in that last post and therefore the first part of what I said was wrong but I would still say that a large part of your case against Grim is that you dislike his style of play, and I would also categorize that as you disagreeing with his style of play rather than it being scummy. THAT'S what other people are saying about you voting people for disagreeing with them.

grim is hardly the only one posting a lot of townreads and he's not posting them every 2 posts. there's a diff between that and doing it at the start of the phase to reiterate your reads in case someone forgot them overnight >_>

you're just being obtuse wrt PoE now. no shit it's based on opinion 90% of the time and not on 100% facts. Guess what? That's fine! It's totally valid to say "I want to lynch this person because I think they're less townie than everyone else". sure, someone whom I think is town might be scum. does that mean I'm supposed to lynch them before the people I don't think are as likely to be town? yeah it's an attempt at a logical guess- that's what all scumhunting is!!! 

24 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

50 townie posts can be ruined by 1 scum post if your scum.  You know this to be a fact.

no I don't know this to be a fact. unless that one scum post is like a scumslip or something 50 townie posts definitely don't get ruined by one suspicious post. obviously scum can fake cases but that doesn't mean you should just brush good content away and only focus on bad content. by that logic I can just as easily say that nobody's perfect and townies post scummy stuff too so I should ignore bad content.

also this is you near the end of D1, saying you didn't scumread him and that he even sounded frustrated townie and that you LIKED his early vote

On 2/5/2018 at 12:59 PM, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

I agree with Captain about Matchstick's early vote and I actually really liked his first vote on Kahl.

Him vanishing for a bit is whatever I've seen him on at times and posting when there hasn't been much going on.  I don't really scum read Matchstick though and one of his posts that I didn't quote sounded like frustrated townie to me.

...

I actually thought the Grim vote was fine, I could understand the reasoning and logic behind it, I did disagree with it because I'm not really scum reading Grim but I don't think your vote was bad.  Why do you say your Grim vote was bad now?

afaics you didn't really talk about him before that other than to say that he should come back at some point. so no you haven't been talking about him all game and you focusing on a couple parts of his D2 posts and ignoring other things that you found town earlier IS cherrypicking.

24 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

90% sure I said I didn't want to lynch them. If I didn't I at the very least said they were a town read.  And that should imply that I don't want to lynch them.  On the other hand of this argument, if I completely ignored Rumor as you seem to say I had, then as scum WHY THE FUCK WOULD I STATE THEY WERE A TOWN READ AFTER THEY HAVE A CLAIMED COP OUTING THEM IN THAT SITUATION?  Like what the fuck would be the logic in that?  Would I be playing to intentionally make myself look worse?  The logic behind that argument is bad as well.  I understand where you are coming from WRT avoiding a buddy is scummy because you just don't interact with them at all and it's a type of distancing.  But why would I ignore them to only state them as a town read after they are verified scum?  Like what?

fair enough I'll take that part back

I didn't write this post in order so after that last part I was considering unvoting Baroness but then her comment about pushing Grim all game made me pull up her D1 posts again and it was such the opposite of what she was claiming that I think it's pretty damning

[C. C.]

"scumhunting" is just a catch-all word that refers to trying to find out who the scum are. it doesn't mean that you literally only hunt for scummy things and completely ignore townie things. there's more than one way to find out who the scum are

[C. C.]

the cherrypicking part came out wrong. I didn't mean to suggest that Grim's D2/D3 stuff can't outweigh the D1 stuff. But Baroness is just focusing on just a couple parts of Grim's D2, and it's stuff that's not central to his play at all. like other than the "gotcha" attempt regarding Grim suspecting Beppi after the doc crumb, there's no real analysis of Grim's Beppi case or of his stuff defending both Cala and Rumor on D2, which are imo the major Grim stuff from D2.

[Estelle]

This quoting system is driving me nuts.  Alright, here's what I mean about Sally (yes I'm taking it out of context for the sake of brevity, go click on the arrow in the quote header for more details):

On 2/5/2018 at 2:25 PM, Sally Stageplay said:

If I was scum, would I really be dumb enough to point out how my sort of actions are scummy when someone else does it?

Maybe?  Just like with Maria's Hilda case, every scum game is different.

On 2/7/2018 at 8:04 AM, Sally Stageplay said:

(I know I'm town)

I know I'm town, too.

On 2/9/2018 at 2:33 AM, Sally Stageplay said:

(It's technically possible Wally is lying, but that seems pretty unlikely considering we'd just lynch him tommorow if Rumor flips non miller town.)

No kidding?  I'm not fully sold on Wally being town, but this feels completely unnecessary.

If I had to choose between Baroness' paranoia/theory-talk and what I quoted above, I see the latter as more scummy.  Speaking of:

1 hour ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

First part is false, you are not required to update town reads.  Since when is that a thing needed to do? Scumhunting is the name of the game and finding scum is how you win the game. You do not need to post your town reads every 2 posts.  PoE is not valid D3 after a flipped scum and an outed cop.  Literally not valid.  There are so many things that can be variables in that situation that you can not even with 90% accuracy consistently PoE the game in that situation.  In fact most of the time when people say PoE they are using a PoE from their opinion, which as a matter of fact, is not an actual Process of Elimination.  Unless you somehow now more information than the rest of the game, your PoE is opinion based and at most an attempt at a logical guess.  Like literally WIFOM throwing out BS here, what if an Arsonist is in this game?  There's probably not but you wouldn't fucking know and they could literally just do that in a heartbeat.  Or just for example what if someone who's been heavily town this game actually turned out to be scum?  Hell what if scum just chose to not kill N0 and mess up all associative reads regarding the doc in an attempt to make the doc crumb who they protected so they could catch the doctor and kill them the following night?  In that situation Cagney wouldn't be clear and could very well be scum getting a free pass as town because of a play scum made on night 1.  You literally cannot PoE the game with that little information. You can only, at best, have your opinion on a logical guess at the situation at hand. Don't misinterpret that.

PoE is a perfectly valid way of narrowing down the scum list, especially after flips.  This assumes that everyone is reasonably intelligent, and isn't trying to throw the game/troll.  For example, the mafia NKing on N1 is an outside possibility, but I don't think that's what happened.  They had momentum thanks to the D1 lynch, so it makes very little sense to stall the game for later WIFOM.  Likewise, Kahl pointed out everything wrong with Honeybottoms at the end of D1.  This is a risky scum move at best, and a stupid one at worst, since there's no telling how everyone else will react to that.  Why disturb a perfectly good mislynch with your scumbuddy?  Grim unvoting Honeybottoms near the end of D2 could be a scumbuddy thing, except that you were the only one that suspected him at that point, with me waffling on him hard.

In other words, think about whether or not a move makes sense, in the context of everything.  Sometimes, mafia wins by doing illogical things. Usually, it ends up blowing up in their face.

[Olivier]

Game talk: If Baroness thinks trying to solve the game by finding townreads and then lynching the least townie people is bad and/or scummy, why were they townreading Rumor of all people?

Baroness's posts feel like someone who is frustrated they/their team is being lynched for what they perceive to be bad reasons. I feel like they are pointing to things and saying "this could be scum, why are you townreading this??"

Real talk: Like, yes, lots of things can be construed as scummy if look at them that way, that's why you have to just make your best guess. You don't need to be a professional psychologist to determine if someone is lying, people do that all the time. Being scum in mafia is hard, because you have to not just lie, but you have to convince a bunch of other people that a good number of them are also liars, all while everyone is constantly scrutinizing each other's words trying to find out who the deceitful ones are. 

[Ochako Uraraka]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:44 AM, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

I didn't explain it well in my post but the fact that I said I would vote Djimmi is more of a consolidation in my eyes.  2 of the other wagons are people I don't want to lynch and I'd rather see Djimmi hung up instead of them.  The only other people I saw that to counterwagon are Cala and Rumor.  Rumor is a fairly high null read in my eyes and I'll be honest I'll skimmed a fair amount of the wall posts made by them in my first passing.  With Cala being someone that I am scumreading at the moment, part of that being gut though.  And with potentially not enough people to be around to vote swap or unvote I wasn't sure if a Djimmi lynch would stop one way or the other. So it was more of a PoE thing there because I also thought a hammer was required. Please also try to understand my previous 3 scum reads all flipped to town reads which left me high and dry with no proper scum reads here now towards the end of the phase.

 Bolded: This was the last post in D1 where she made a mention of Rumor. Her next appearance is in the wall post I quoted. Care to tell me why you thought Rumor was town?

[Ochako Uraraka]

Also the point about not talking about having a townread on Rumor after the guilty as scum: Honestly that's NAI. Like you could've easily been scum just thoughtlessly saying that, its not like scum behave on purely rational terms all the time. But even if I give you the benefit of doubt, it doesn't explain how your D2 entrance was a post talking about anti-Rumor players while simultaneously never making a read on Rumor's play. Yeah town can have a townread that they never talk about until later but how do you explain your thought process in that wall post coming from town?

[Ochako Uraraka]

On 2/8/2018 at 7:33 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

@Beppi The Clown I figure you are either gonna get NK'd or will be a late game PoE because of your comment about not being lynched. I'm still kind of uncomfortable with your slot but I feel like it will sort itself out?

This is definitely not Grim having a case on Beppi all day while picking up on a crumb; get your facts right. Also honestly if Grim was scum why would he be pushing a lynch on Beppi? Beppi would claim and then he'd have to NK him anyway, why not lay low and just kill him than try to stack votes on someone who probably won't be getting lynched?

[Ochako Uraraka]

12 hours ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

Grim scumread makes no sense apparently, I don't get that at all, I've posted thoughts and reasons as to why they are scummy a few times, part of the stuff maybe gut based but just because it's gut based you can't just brush it off like that.  Like seriously, there are people who play mafia HEAVILY based off of gut, you don't see people just ignoring their cases solely because they used gut do you?  Grim using player guesses is scummy because it's POINTLESS.  It doesn't do anything in the game thread, multiple posts of his were ONLY player guesses or information similiar in an ANONY game.  That literally means a fair amount of his posts hold ZERO scum hunting and ZERO effort towards helping town do anything.  Unless the name of the fucking game is "Name all the fucking players in this anony game."  The Kahl read he posted also came out of nowhere in my opinion unless I missed it, which is why in my opinion it was weird.  I also never stated it was bad(I think) Just weird.  How many fucking times am I going to get misrepped this game, if I get lynched because of being misrepped repeatedly I'm going to be extremely frustrated.

ALSO DOES NO ONE ELSE FIND IT WEIRD TO ME THAT HE SAID HE WAS SCUM READING BEPPI BUT THIS DAY PHASE HE FUCKING POSTED THAT HE SAW THE DOC CRUMB?

The case on you is bad? That's a load of bull, multiple people agree that you are/were scummy, apparently that just dropped off the face of the earth because of rumor's lynch and suddenly I'm on the chopping block because I was townreading him.  Man if we lynch people for townreading scum flips these games we be 90% scum wins I'd think.  Hilda vote was scummy and was already commented on how it was scummy, it was terribly weak imo.  Like right here in this whole fucking paragraph is a bunch of questions that have already been answered or explained and right now I'm getting fed up with it so I'm halfway debating on just not responding since it seems like people won't read this anyway.  I don't even quite understand the bolded part.  I also read the context of your actions and I don't think it was dismissive at all.  You not voting in that post was scummy as well because, even though you say you were reading the thread and giving thoughts, you were constantly posting and active at that time while just choose to not vote until a while later.

Wally scum read isn't a matter of not liking his plays, it's a matter of, he was being fucking scummy.  Not liking someone's plays doesn't make them scum, I don't like a couple of plays in this game but I'm not going around saying everyone is scum.  Neither fucking scumread between grim or Wally were disliking their plays so stop fucking saying that you prick.  That's so god damn annoying, just because you don't have the ability to see logic that is bad doesn't mean you can just brush it off as "I didn't agree with them."  Wally up until his cop claim didn't actively do much until most of the way through day 2.  He tunneled on rumor(for obvious reason now) but he wasn't as actively breaking down posts as you seem to make it out to be.  I still don't think Rumor was SUPER scummy, I've seen much scummier plays than what he did from people who are town.  Literally reading this post frustrates me to no end.

I don't think SFMafia as a whole gives a pass to people who use gut on D3. Anyway, your case still sucks for what Brineybeard said. Grim made identity guesses. So? That isn't even the entirety of his content but you're seemingly convinced that this makes him scum because ??? Why is the Beppi case more likely to come from scum? Why does scum!Grim defend the counterwagon against his buddy?

 

It doesn't matter that my Hilda vote looks bad in vacuum., if that's what you're saying. Why does scum!Cala vote Hilda, a player that most of the game was averse to lynching, when she and her buddy are wagons?

 

You scumread Wally for not re-reading me and being confident in me being town and rumor being scum. You offered him the argument that Rumor and I could be scum-scum. Yet you yourself were apparently convinced that I was scum and Rumor was town. Do you see how hypocritical this scumread is? 

 

 

[No Elimination]

I have absolutely no motivation for this game now wtf.

I also have a lot of townreads though. Scum pool is Baron, Sally, Hilda, Captain imo.

[Marisa Kirisame]

hey @Wally Warbles--sorry if you have answered this before, I'm on my phone and can't do the iso thing and reading back on my phone is a pain (you can quote yourself if you have answered this already)--why do you think grim is town? I'm having trouble coming to a conclusion myself and wanted to ask you

[Cú Chulainn]

16 hours ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

I didn't write this post in order so after that last part I was considering unvoting Baroness but then her comment about pushing Grim all game made me pull up her D1 posts again and it was such the opposite of what she was claiming that I think it's pretty damning

IF this was "damning" to you then you apparently don't actually know who I am, yet you commente don how I do. I must have mixed up my Day 2 read with day 1.  I generally don't remember things that happened a couple days ago, even irl.  Unless something happens to make a big enough statement to me or to stick in my thoughts, it's easily forgotten and ignored as I move on.  The only things I know I remember from day 1 where my top 2 scum reads became 2 of my top town reads, that was Beppi/Werner.  Outside of that I don't hardly even remember most of the stuff from day one so I go based of of what I feel like I remember.  That's just bad play on my part but it's also how I play the game most of the time.

13 hours ago, Grim Matchstick said:

Game talk: If Baroness thinks trying to solve the game by finding townreads and then lynching the least townie people is bad and/or scummy, why were they townreading Rumor of all people?

Baroness's posts feel like someone who is frustrated they/their team is being lynched for what they perceive to be bad reasons. I feel like they are pointing to things and saying "this could be scum, why are you townreading this??"

Real talk: Like, yes, lots of things can be construed as scummy if look at them that way, that's why you have to just make your best guess. You don't need to be a professional psychologist to determine if someone is lying, people do that all the time. Being scum in mafia is hard, because you have to not just lie, but you have to convince a bunch of other people that a good number of them are also liars, all while everyone is constantly scrutinizing each other's words trying to find out who the deceitful ones are. 

None of this post even makes sense or contributes to discussion.  What does me townreading Rumor have anything to do with that method of play?

???????????  The second part doesn't even make sense at all.

9 hours ago, Cala Maria said:

 Bolded: This was the last post in D1 where she made a mention of Rumor. Her next appearance is in the wall post I quoted. Care to tell me why you thought Rumor was town?

Because I had other scum reads that I felt were more scummy.  And if I am scum reading 3-4 people already, I will generally work on looking and breaking a part those players cases the most I can.  So part of it was just my opinion based that I felt stronger about my other reads.  For a second reason, I just didn't get much scum reasoning from his posts outside of the thing that happened on day 1 where he didn't vote anyone.  WHICH I ALSO DID COMMENT ON AND SAID I DIDNT LIKE.  OR that it was weird. One of the two.

9 hours ago, Cala Maria said:

This is definitely not Grim having a case on Beppi all day while picking up on a crumb; get your facts right. Also honestly if Grim was scum why would he be pushing a lynch on Beppi? Beppi would claim and then he'd have to NK him anyway, why not lay low and just kill him than try to stack votes on someone who probably won't be getting lynched?

Funny thing is I already commented on the correction of Grim having a case on Beppi all day.  Telling me to get my facts right and tossing in a pot shot at something that both I and SOMEONE ELSE already fucking corrected isn't needed. So how about you read the thread and get your accusations right?

You act as if scum haven't tried to get power roles misslynched.  A situation where Beppi might not be around at deadline and then GET TURBOED is entirely plausible and this shit has happened in plenty of other games.

For the sake of not me > me.

##Unvote: 

##Vote: Sally

To be frank though all of these posts by Cala are bad and are just taking advantage of a situation that has already been stated and corrected.

[Cú Chulainn]

5 hours ago, Wally Warbles said:

I have absolutely no motivation for this game now wtf.

I also have a lot of townreads though. Scum pool is Baron, Sally, Hilda, Captain imo.

Great town play guys.  Funny when I feel this will end up wrong.

This is pathetic.

[Cú Chulainn]

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive here but there is literally no statements or even reasoning for those reads.  It's just piggybacking off of what other people said.

Grim has had basically no motivation to play the game since day like day 1 which is interesting because if they are who they think I are they stated that people who do this or people who are just not active and are doing other things with their time are scum.  Legit has commented before that he feels people avoiding the thread and acting demotivated is more scummy than NAI no matter who the player is.

Cala brings nothing new to the table.  Also WRT something I forgot to respond to: Why does Scum cala vote hilda?  Because newbie's can be misslynched easily and this has happened frequently enough in mafia.  It normally is scum-fueled and has scum-intent behind it.

Cagney is trying but I'd like to see more out of them overall.  They are most likely 90% town but I feel they should post more reads in case they die because of this.

Wally is dead to the world, 1 post day 1. Tunneled day 2 because of his inspect with minor other cases on players and now De-motivated on day 3? Why? Because he got roleblocked? That's convenient.  If I didn't know better I'd say they were me.  

I feel like Werner is town but that's based on WIFOM reasoning from me for the most part.  I also still need to respond to what they quoted by me earlier.

I don't even know what DR. Kahl has done this day phase.

I still think Captain Brineybeard is town and probably one of the more townie players in this game.

No fucking clue on sally cause I haven't paid half an ounce of attention to the slot outside of minor skims and partial reading in past phases.

[All Might]

Day 3.1 - Votals
Baroness Von Bon Bon (5): Dr. Kahl, Cala Maria, Captain Brineybeard, Grim Matchstick, Sally Stageplay (L-1)
Sally Stageplay (4): Werner Werman, Cagney Carnation, Hilda Berg,  Baroness Von Bon Bon
Not Voting (1): Wally Warbles

You have ~25 hours and 10 minutes left in the day. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Mr. Wheezy

[Cú Chulainn]

15 hours ago, Werner Werman said:

PoE is a perfectly valid way of narrowing down the scum list, especially after flips.  This assumes that everyone is reasonably intelligent, and isn't trying to throw the game/troll.  For example, the mafia NKing on N1 is an outside possibility, but I don't think that's what happened.  They had momentum thanks to the D1 lynch, so it makes very little sense to stall the game for later WIFOM.  Likewise, Kahl pointed out everything wrong with Honeybottoms at the end of D1.  This is a risky scum move at best, and a stupid one at worst, since there's no telling how everyone else will react to that.  Why disturb a perfectly good mislynch with your scumbuddy?  Grim unvoting Honeybottoms near the end of D2 could be a scumbuddy thing, except that you were the only one that suspected him at that point, with me waffling on him hard.

In other words, think about whether or not a move makes sense, in the context of everything.  Sometimes, mafia wins by doing illogical things. Usually, it ends up blowing up in their face.

This entire paragraph just seems like your attempting to be a teacher in this situation which is wrong.  Captain brineybeard said I was being asinine with PoE, and yeah maybe I am but this is a fact.

"Process of elimination is a method to identify an entity of interest among several ones by excluding all other entities."

The mafia sub-forum uses PoE as their logical guess on their opinion. Which yeah you can make that if you want but it is not an actual, factual, Process of elimination.  Period.

Currently in this game there are 10 people alive. 1 Claimed cop, 1 probably clear by a doctor hypothetical action on N1, 1 flipped scum, 1 claim of a roleblocker, and my one claim of a vanilla.  That literally means 6 fucking unknown parameters.  7 if you go by the fact that we don't know who the roleblocker is.  And you can not with any sort of actual accuracy in that situation guarantee a Process of Elimination that EXCLUDES ALL OTHER ENTITIES.

[Cú Chulainn]

Apparently I can't count or something.

[Cú Chulainn]

Also my vote is on Sally.

[Cú Chulainn]

8 hours ago, Cala Maria said:

You scumread Wally for not re-reading me and being confident in me being town and rumor being scum. You offered him the argument that Rumor and I could be scum-scum. Yet you yourself were apparently convinced that I was scum and Rumor was town. Do you see how hypocritical this scumread is? 

Yehp, I've also been known for being hypocritical.  It even happened earlier in this game, on day 1 or 2 idr which but I did something that was basically the same thing.  And I commented on it.  However I didn't state "I refuse to reread Rumor."  As I had skimmed them, but just hadn't done super in-depth detailed analysis of their wall-posts.

WRT people not getting by based off of gut-reads I can name 2 people off the top of my head that use gut A LOT even in later day phases and they aren't called out on it.

[Estelle]

8 hours ago, Cala Maria said:

It doesn't matter that my Hilda vote looks bad in vacuum., if that's what you're saying. Why does scum!Cala vote Hilda, a player that most of the game was averse to lynching, when she and her buddy are wagons?

Oh, right, that's a point.  Would be like Kahl, except Hilda hasn't flipped yet.

15 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

This entire paragraph just seems like your attempting to be a teacher in this situation which is wrong.  Captain brineybeard said I was being asinine with PoE, and yeah maybe I am but this is a fact.

"Process of elimination is a method to identify an entity of interest among several ones by excluding all other entities."

The mafia sub-forum uses PoE as their logical guess on their opinion. Which yeah you can make that if you want but it is not an actual, factual, Process of elimination.  Period.

Currently in this game there are 10 people alive. 1 Claimed cop, 1 probably clear by a doctor hypothetical action on N1, 1 flipped scum, 1 claim of a roleblocker, and my one claim of a vanilla.  That literally means 6 fucking unknown parameters.  7 if you go by the fact that we don't know who the roleblocker is.  And you can not with any sort of actual accuracy in that situation guarantee a Process of Elimination that EXCLUDES ALL OTHER ENTITIES.

Part of being town vanilla is making sure your corpse is useful.  Your logic is your own, but the path you took to get to your conclusions is so convoluted that it's making it hard for me to follow.  Part of the game is making educated guesses.  Yes, it means some assumptions.  Yes, there will be mistakes (see: D1).  However, there's way more information right now than there was at the beginning of D1, and I'm going to make use of it.  Also, pointing fingers at everyone, without taking into consideration what has happened, will make your reads a lot less useful.

The worst part of this is that you're not willing to listen to another opinion, and I'd policy lynch you for that.

The biggest indicator that you're town is the fact that you haven't self-hammered.  It's also why my vote's staying on Sally.

So, I'm going to ask you and @Cala Maria the same question: If the other dropped dead, who's scum?

[Cú Chulainn]

What other opinion am I not willing to listen to?  If it's an opinion based on PoE that's not something you can even fault me for.  So don't even try to bring that up.  IF it's something else, I'm more than willing to listen to other opinions so I don't see this as true.  The only thing I said was OBJECTIVELY wrong was the factor about PoE, because, by definition, it is.

Not counting Sally, if I was to remove Cala from my list of scum I'd probably be looking at Grim > Kahl and then it gets into my town reads.  If I ranked my town reads it would probably have to be  Werner > Hilda for the scummier ones.

So in all not counting cala or Sally it would be

Grim > Kahl > Werner > Hilda

[Cú Chulainn]

And policy lynching someone over a dispute about the definition or meaning of a word or phrase is just plain stupid.