Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[Cú Chulainn]

You never even finished responding to me and you're just voting me.

Enjoyable.

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/27/2018 at 6:30 PM, Captain Brineybeard said:

running out of time will respond to the rest of it after

Still waiting on this.  Can't even fucking argue against any more points because you are CONSTANTLY not responding to my counterpoints.  Like this is the most blatant lazy voting process.  You seem to have just decided "I'm just gonna do this and I don't care."  And that pisses me off so much.

On 2/27/2018 at 6:32 PM, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

Why is Cala interaction with Rumor townie?  I can only see it as townie if you BELIEVE Cala is town.

If you look at it from the perspective of Scum!Cala then her interactions with Rumor are NOT good.

You didn't even fully respond to this.

23 hours ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

I do agree that the interactions are iffy from Cala's perspective because her reasons for not pushing Rumor for Rumor's shitty case are bad.

But if you look at it from the perspective of scum!Rumor, the interactions are good, because she was like "shit everybody suspects me I have to produce content" and she chose to push Rumor. She pushed her buddy on D1 but was under nowhere near the amount of scrutiny, and never actually voted Grim. and I know for sure Rumor was scum; I don't have to believe anything.

Looking at it from scum!Rumor's perspective doesn't even make sense.  From Scum!Rumor's perspective he needs to survive as scum and potentially pushing a buddy and lynching a buddy gets him town cred that makes him last LONGER than either him or Cala would have potentially lasted alone previously since BOTH of them were under pressure.  Like this argument just seems to ASSUME that they can't possibly be buddies and that pisses me off because it seems like you aren't even thinking of the possibility or even caring so much as to think about it.

Your choice to just ignore some of my questions or not respond to them while then stating arguments that are also basically all based on FUCKING WIFOM that aren't possible to actually argue against is frustrating me to no fucking end.

[Cú Chulainn]

6 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

I don't think I'll be around much tomorrow so I'm going to vote. 

##Vote: Baroness von Bon Bon

And this is just bad because it seems to basically imply you won't move your vote and you are just gonna vote and won't be around.  Which means we either get a universal lose or Werner would be forced to swap their vote without being able to argue against you because you won't be around to answer any arguments they state.

This is really scummy and I'm getting really bad vibes from this.

[Cú Chulainn]

##Unvote:

##Vote: Captain Brineybeard

Fuck it this is probably plausible.  With how he's acted the past few day phases I'm starting to think he's fine with ANYONE getting lynched.  He waffled repeatedly on MULTIPLE of the past few day phases including the last day phase and this day phase he just seems to ignore any LOGICAL arguments stated and is just basing everything off of WIFOM and GUT while trying to strongarm Werner into voting me.

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/25/2018 at 3:08 AM, Cala Maria said:

Really though I have nothing else to say if that's all you have for my arguments, I can't argue against something as nitpicky as that; this feels like you are inventing reasons for me being scum.

This fucking makes a lot more sense now being on this side of Captain brineybeard's terrible arguments.

[Estelle]

5 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

yes he did? Grim voted Sally on D4 iirc. He also didn't start voting Baroness until halfway through D2; he was voting Beppi before that. but yes I do agree that Grim interactions are generally in favour of Baroness.

i'm confused why you think this is null:

if Cala already had attention on her, then being picked for pressure by Rumor is a stronger point in her favour, bc she was piling pressure on a buddy where it already existed, so it was more likely to lead to a lynch rather than just distancing.

The reason I'm giving somewhat more weight to the Cala/Rumor interactions over the Grim/Baroness ones is that Grim had already been pushing Baroness from before, so stopping his push against Baroness at the start of D3, when other people were finding Baroness scummy after the Rumor flip would have looked suspicious had Baroness flipped scum. In comparison I don't think there's a similar mitigating factor for Rumor's push on Cala. Rumor hadn't even been finding Cala scummy on D1, so she was under no obligation to push that as her counterwagon.

If you read Grim's wall, he had her down as a scum read.  Likewise, I had Sally down as a scumread starting from D2, yet my vote was on Honeybottoms.

Honeybottoms' actions felt more like flailing than anything.  It also felt like she wanted attention anywhere but herself, so the other wagon would've worked.  And if it was her buddy, then it means that she would've looked more town, since people were doubting their initial scumreads because of how strange her play was.

This was Grim's first D3 post:

On 2/11/2018 at 2:22 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

why am I awake at this hour

reading but my vote is like 99% gonna be on baroness

so I have no idea what you mean by backing off on her.  Also:

On 2/12/2018 at 6:52 PM, Dr. Kahl said:

Maybe I'm biased because I disagree w/you, but it just read as weird to me that every time Baroness made a post, you were instantly like "das scum" compared to like Captain/Werner/Cagney trying to determine if it was scummy or not.  I don't think you consistently scumreading Baroness is bad, moreso how you're just tunneling on the slot without really ever rethinking things (even if your conclusion is ultimately that Baroness is still scum).  Additionally, assuming you are this confident that Baroness is scum, you're moreso just sitting on that opinion rather than trying to convince others that Baroness is scum.  This reads as scum to me because the scum MO is to just sit on a good case whereas town are trying to get their main read lynched.  Why are mine/Cagney's townreads wrong for example?

Grim's attitude towards Baroness in a nutshell.

I've been picking out Grim's posts, then reading the posts around them for context.  Where are you getting your reads from?

[Estelle]

9 minutes ago, Baroness Von Bon Bon said:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Captain Brineybeard

Fuck it this is probably plausible.  With how he's acted the past few day phases I'm starting to think he's fine with ANYONE getting lynched.  He waffled repeatedly on MULTIPLE of the past few day phases including the last day phase and this day phase he just seems to ignore any LOGICAL arguments stated and is just basing everything off of WIFOM and GUT while trying to strongarm Werner into voting me.

I'm tempted to sheep this, because that last bit regarding Grim was really weird.  What do you think of my previous post?

[Cú Chulainn]

Also rereading part of this stuff. Grim's wall post and further into day 2 he STATES that he would much rather vote me but I wasn't active at the time so he felt it was better to post his vote elsewhere.

[Cú Chulainn]

On 2/6/2018 at 7:49 PM, Grim Matchstick said:

Lynch priority: Beppi > BvBB > Cala?

Would not lynch today: Myself > Cagney > Werner > Briney > Kahl

Everyone else: Hilda, Sally, Rumor, Wally

##Vote: Beppi

I'm second on his scum reads start of Day 2.

On 2/7/2018 at 5:46 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

Why would Cala Maria stop scumreading me based on a metaread as scum? There's no scum motivation here other than to get townie points from me specifically. Like, no one had an issue with their read on me from my memory and it's such a weird waffle. There's no reason for mafia to do this but it makes a ton of sense to come from town who are actually trying to solve the game.

This Hilda vote is the same way. I mean, Hilda is an "easy" target but the case is super weak and it shows the player is going out of their way to read past games. Does mafia go read a game from like 4 months ago to come up with a flimsy case on the newbie? Who does that?

I'm just gonna ignore werner's posts since it makes this game bearable okhandemoji

##Unvote

Rumor, you said you're better at establishing townreads than scumreads. Okay, great. Who are your strongest townreads? Who are you confident in saying "This person is definitely town, don't lynch them ever"? Who is in your pool of not-townreads that you are willing to lynch?

Unvotes Beppi basically because of Beppi's crumb.

On 2/7/2018 at 6:02 AM, Grim Matchstick said:

neither of their actions make sense to me as scummy

like, I think Rumor's content has been entirely unhelpful to the rest of the town but I agree with Briney that it doesn't make sense for scum (except for the part Wally quoted, echoing that skepticism). I'm pretty torn which is why I'm asking them for more of an explanation. It's easy to bullshit "yeah this looks like town infighting" or "this is a good post" but my gut is telling me I'm wrong about that making him scum

and I feel I've explained my issues with scum!Cala 

I also still feel bad about BvBB but no one else seems to agree with me and they've not posted so I don't really have anything to add other than bitching about them not posting.

Bolded part is important.

On 2/8/2018 at 7:39 PM, Grim Matchstick said:

Do you have any actual problems with my play other than me making meta reads? Or... half your reads, really. Your Sally read for example seems to be "I disagree with how they're playing so I'm okay with lynching them" vs. "I think what they're doing is scummy" and I feel like your Wally read is much the same.  You did a lot of this D1 too iirc

Also you claim I brought up the Cala read change after other people pointed it out and gutread this as scum but... I don't think anyone talked about it this phase until I brought it up as a towntell? This feels like something you just made up which is ???

man fuck it 

##Vote: bvbb

People really shouldn't be giving this slot a free pass for something easy to fake as scum (their argument with Briney D1) and I don't feel good about voting Sally without doing a proper analysis (which I haven't had the motivation for lul)

Right after my first actual content post of day 2.

At no point in time did he ever back off of me.

[C. C.]

lmao that retaliatory vote against me was scummy as fuck from baroness. he's said I've been townie for most of the game. I've been responding to almost everything he says, regardless of what he's saying about me not responding to his points. I was clearly building to a vote against him so the vote against me is basically just intimidation. 

besides, If I were scum I would have just continued my D5 push of the Grim/Cala scumteam and lynched Cala considering both baroness and werner found her scummy.

I did forget to give examples of what I meant wrt Cala's thought process (which I'll do in my upcoming post). I definitely responded to Baroness's question about the Cala/Rumor interactions:

I do agree that the interactions are iffy from Cala's perspective because her reasons for not pushing Rumor for Rumor's shitty case are bad.

But if you look at it from the perspective of scum!Rumor, the interactions are good, because she was like "shit everybody suspects me I have to produce content" and she chose to push Rumor. She pushed her buddy on D1 but was under nowhere near the amount of scrutiny, and never actually voted Grim. and I know for sure Rumor was scum; I don't have to believe anything.

[Cú Chulainn]

7 minutes ago, Werner Werman said:

I'm tempted to sheep this, because that last bit regarding Grim was really weird.  What do you think of my previous post?

Reading your post pointed out something to me that I noticed in the DR. Kahl quote.

Captain says I'm weird and scummy because he feels like I just 'decided' Grim/Cala were scum.

Then how does he feel about Grim's read on me as stated in that Dr. Kahl quote?  Basically anytime I posted Grim said it was scum/scummy without any change in his thought process.  And in his eyes that's scummy for me to do but he never commented on it when Grim was doing it.  Why did you just ignore Grim doing this but didn't ignore me doing it? @Captain Brineybeard

[Estelle]

The hell is even going on right now? ;/

[C. C.]

also fuck off I have class or meetings from 8AM to 5PM straight with a 30 minute break in the middle which I'll use to eat lunch. and fuck off with your intimidation tactics I've put more effort into this game than any other person.

[Estelle]

I swear if this keeps up I'm going to see to it that this game ends in a universal loss.

[Cú Chulainn]

3 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

lmao that retaliatory vote against me was scummy as fuck from baroness. he's said I've been townie for most of the game. I've been responding to almost everything he says, regardless of what he's saying about me not responding to his points. I was clearly building to a vote against him so the vote against me is basically just intimidation. 

besides, If I were scum I would have just continued my D5 push of the Grim/Cala scumteam and lynched Cala considering both baroness and werner found her scummy.

I did forget to give examples of what I meant wrt Cala's thought process (which I'll do in my upcoming post). I definitely responded to Baroness's question about the Cala/Rumor interactions:

I SPECIFICALLY FUCKING QUOTED THE SHIT YOU HAVENT RESPONDED TO.

YOU HAVENT BEEN FUCKING RESPONDING TO ME.  RE READ THIS ENTIRE DAY PHASE.  And yeah you were one my towniest reads the whole game but this past few fucking day phases you seem to have put yourself in a position where you could swing anyway you wanted, even partially over towards a Werner vote, you slightly hinted at this in the previous day phase.  THIS IS SCUMMY AS FUCK IN *ylo.

[Estelle]

In other words, cut it the fuck out, both of you.  I don't care if it means taking a break for an hour or so.

[Cú Chulainn]

1 minute ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

also fuck off I have class or meetings from 8AM to 5PM straight with a 30 minute break in the middle which I'll use to eat lunch. and fuck off with your intimidation tactics I've put more effort into this game than any other person.

I was inactive for about 24-30 hours day 1.  Inactive for the first half of day 2.  And then I have been constantly working my ass off since day 3.  You putting in effort also has nothing to do with alignment.  I understand if you will be busy but the way you stated your vote made it sound as if you were just strongarming Werner into voting me.  You seemed to imply you were leaving and you wouldn't be responding to other things.  You still never responded to the rest of my post yesterday that you said you would respond to.  I see this as bad at this point in time of the game.

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm not gonna vote myself and I'm not gonna vie for a no lynch because that's a universal loss.  But if you REFUSE to vote Cala then I will attempt to lynch you because NO MATTER WHAT ATTEMPTING A LYNCH HAS A HIGHER CHANCE OF WINNING THAN A NO LYNCH WHICH IS AN AUTOMATIC LOSS.

[C. C.]

I forgot to continue my response to ONE post. and even then I responded to most of it; I literally only forgot to get to one point that required me to go through the thread to find quotes. so get lost

obviously I'll vote cala to avoid a universal loss get out of here with your strawman arguments

[Cú Chulainn]

One post? One post?  THAT ONE POST HAD QUESTIONS IN IT THAT YOU IGNORED FROM EARLIER IN THE DAY PHASE.  You can't say it was only one post because of the fact that you had ignored my other questions and arguments PREVIOUS to that post.  That's why I stated go reread this day phase if need to.

I'd still rather lynch Cala > Captain because I DO NOT want to be voting off of paranoia or second guessing myself, but captains play is starting to come from a scummy play looking at the past few days and if he refuses to change his mind based of his arguments of WIFOM and GUT then I will vote Captain because I have no other choice to.

Your last day phase was literally Cala > Baron > Cala but always able to swing the other way and you were very quick to vote Cala at first.  You also never seemed to write off Werner as super town and had hinted that you would be willing to lynch them if certain things happened.  IDK what you are actually thinking nor do I know what your actual reads seem to be.

##Unvote:

I'm gonna go take a break, I'm gonna find something to eat and try to come back more level headed.

[C. C.]

and you called me lazy and then you say that me putting in effort doesn't matter

gtfo i'm so fucking mad. you get mad at everyone for fucking everything. i've been waffling so hard for the past two day phases BECAUSE I've been trying so fucking hard to get this lynch right when this is a fucking game on an internet forum. and then you accuse me of not caring and saying I have a lazy voting process for just going with my gut today and then simultaneously accuse me of waffling a lot. which one of those is it?

[Cú Chulainn]

3 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

obviously I'll vote cala to avoid a universal loss get out of here with your strawman arguments

Sorry if I mistook your vote the wrong way but you HEAVILY implied that you just wouldn't be around anymore.  You didn't say you would be back by phase end, you just said that you didn't think you'd be around tomorrow so you were voting now.  They have two massively different meanings.

[C. C.]

baroness, the dude yelling at everyone on d3 for PoE based on townreads when they weren't technically clear, calling me scummy for not saying werner was cleared town

[Estelle]

My thoughts on everyone after hunting for Grim quotes:

Maria - started off scummy, nosedived in D2, then got better in D3.  That Hilda case still bugs me.

Baroness - okayish early, but on reread, liked her on D3 a lot less.  That thing with Wally still bugs me.

Brineybeard - Might be because he's going off of memory, but that's a pretty drastic misrep of Grim's D3 actions.  Still, Grim's flipped scum, so yeah.

Me - I'm sorely tempted to start RPing my character with German so bad that I'll have to ask a mod to warn me.

I'll be back like an hour and a half before phase end.  Will also stick around here for a bit.

[Cú Chulainn]

2 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

and you called me lazy and then you say that me putting in effort doesn't matter

gtfo i'm so fucking mad. you get mad at everyone for fucking everything. i've been waffling so hard for the past two day phases BECAUSE I've been trying so fucking hard to get this lynch right when this is a fucking game on an internet forum. and then you accuse me of not caring and saying I have a lazy voting process for just going with my gut today and then simultaneously accuse me of waffling a lot. which one of those is it?

I said your vote was lazy.  I didn't say you putting in effort doesn't matter.  Don't misconstrue what I said.  I apologize if I came off that way to you.  I'm just attempting to not get lynched here and you haven't stated arguments that I can really argue against.  A large portion of them have been based on Gut and WIFOM and I can't respond to those.  So you should be able to understand why I'm getting this way.  Once again I apologize.