Grima and degeneration

[SoulWeaver]

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

But yes. Fates tried to ride on Awakening's popularity. I would rather not try to consider the incarnation theory, because if Selena is Caeldori's mother, then Selena gave birth to the incarnation of her own mother. Last thing we need is for Selena to be her own grandmother stuff.

BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO MARRY SELENA-SUBAKI!!!

7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And the vessel can't degenerate because they aren't true dragons. This was why Loptyr performed it. The blood pact was his way of escaping the degeneration. 

…I just realized we're saying almost the exact same thing - basically, that Grima can't degenerate unless it selects a Dragon who is not from Elibe or Tellius to be its vessel, in which case Grima is likely to be subject to the same degeneration as said vessel, and that this is easily avoidable due to Grima(probably) being able to, as you said, start his own vessel bloodline pretty much whenever he wants. Sorry for fighting you on that!

5 hours ago, Otts486 said:

That certainly is a possibility but the only known divine dragons to even come close to degeneration are mila and duma. Though it can be speculated that the divine dragon blood used to make Grima belonged to Duma or mila.

I would like to point out that Mila and Duma are kind of special cases as they're only Divine Dragons by Retcon. Official Retcon, yes, but still Retcon - they were almost the only two overarching characters in Fire Emblem who were supposed to be actual gods instead of this 'Divine Dragon' stuff until SoV happened, the only others(off the top of my head, let me know if I miss someone guys) being Ashunera and Fomortiis.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Mind you, I haven't seen past the first floor of Thabes. Heard too much of the tedium of it all, and I find grinding a bore in SoV (I have no DLC). So I've relied on the word of others. The ship battles en route to Thabes were good though.

If you've got the Whitewings trained properly, they'll solo a fair amount if not the whole dungeon assuming you run Normal difficulty, so long as you can keep them well-fed so they don't get cranky and watch out for Bows.

4 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

the mysterious traveller

FRICK IS HE ACTUALLY CALLED THE MYSTERIOUS TRAVELER?!?!?!

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

…I just realized we're saying almost the exact same thing - basically, that Grima can't degenerate unless it selects a Dragon who is not from Elibe or Tellius to be its vessel, in which case Grima is likely to be subject to the same degeneration as said vessel, and that this is easily avoidable due to Grima(probably) being able to, as you said, start his own vessel bloodline pretty much whenever he wants. Sorry for fighting you on that!

Why do you say dragons though? He possesses humans like Loptyr does. 

5 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I would like to point out that Mila and Duma are kind of special cases as they're only Divine Dragons by Retcon. Official Retcon, yes, but still Retcon - they were almost the only two overarching characters in Fire Emblem who were supposed to be actual gods instead of this 'Divine Dragon' stuff until SoV happened, the only others(off the top of my head, let me know if I miss someone guys) being Ashunera and Fomortiis.

Yes, but this is possibly to fill in the plothole that Gaiden left in why there was a Falchion in the game when Falchion was the sacred weapon from Archanea. Kaga did it cause originally, he wanted the games to always have Falchion be the ultimate weapon. But then stopped doing that. Hence why in Genealogy, he decided that instead of another Falchion, Naga would give a magic tome instead. 

Also, Duma's slime monster form in Gaiden actually does sort of share a resemblance to a dragon. It was hard to figure it out at first though. Almost like a necrodragon. I particularly don't mind that Duma and Mila have been rendered into Divine Dragons. 

1. It just makes Naga that much more epic.
2. My friend and I agree that the thing thats great about the series is that there are no true gods in there, just godly powerful beings like Naga. 

ALso, I believe that Fomortiis was a demon, not a god.

[SoulWeaver]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Why do you say dragons though? He possesses humans like Loptyr does. 

Yes, but this is possibly to fill in the plothole that Gaiden left in why there was a Falchion in the game when Falchion was the sacred weapon from Archanea. Kaga did it cause originally, he wanted the games to always have Falchion be the ultimate weapon. But then stopped doing that. Hence why in Genealogy, he decided that instead of another Falchion, Naga would give a magic tome instead. 

Also, Duma's slime monster form in Gaiden actually does sort of share a resemblance to a dragon. It was hard to figure it out at first though. Almost like a necrodragon. I particularly don't mind that Duma and Mila have been rendered into Divine Dragons. 

1. It just makes Naga that much more epic.
2. My friend and I agree that the thing thats great about the series is that there are no true gods in there, just godly powerful beings like Naga. 

ALso, I believe that Fomortiis was a demon, not a god.

Since the question is ‘does Grima degenerate’ I’m specifically making a distinction between whether it has a human vessel or a dragon vessel because Grima would have to be linked to whoever it possesses - if Grima is possessing someone who cannot degenerate(humans, Elibean Dragons, Tellius Laguz) then Grima cannot degenerate because it is linked to its host. On the other hand, if Grima is linked to a Dragon/Manakete who can degenerate, then Grima should degenerate as well due to being linked to the vessel. Essentially, if the vessel can degenerate, so can Grima, and if the vessel won’t degenerate, neither should Grima.

[NPR]

1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

Since the question is ‘does Grima degenerate’ I’m specifically making a distinction between whether it has a human vessel or a dragon vessel because Grima would have to be linked to whoever it possesses - if Grima is possessing someone who cannot degenerate(humans, Elibean Dragons, Tellius Laguz) then Grima cannot degenerate because it is linked to its host. On the other hand, if Grima is linked to a Dragon/Manakete who can degenerate, then Grima should degenerate as well due to being linked to the vessel. Essentially, if the vessel can degenerate, so can Grima, and if the vessel won’t degenerate, neither should Grima.

I believe that a bigger question that arises from this is if a human body can even stick around as long as a dragon can, or if Grima needs its vessel to have a child that it can then possess once the old vessel starts to die. That would explain Morgan pretty well actually.

[TheSilentChloey]

11 minutes ago, NPR said:

I believe that a bigger question that arises from this is if a human body can even stick around as long as a dragon can, or if Grima needs its vessel to have a child that it can then possess once the old vessel starts to die. That would explain Morgan pretty well actually.

 

And also why Grima needed Present Timeline Robin to become the new vessel as well, if we're continuing that line of thought.  Which naturally reminds me of a fan-fiction that did just that...

[Kalken]

On 1/24/2018 at 6:50 PM, SoulWeaver said:

I would like to point out that Mila and Duma are kind of special cases as they're only Divine Dragons by Retcon. Official Retcon, yes, but still Retcon - they were almost the only two overarching characters in Fire Emblem who were supposed to be actual gods instead of this 'Divine Dragon' stuff until SoV happened, the only others(off the top of my head, let me know if I miss someone guys) being Ashunera and Fomortiis.

This is assumption. Not only does Kaga's later work establish that all so-called gods are really dragons, but Duma's map sprite in Gaiden looks obviously like a dragon (we don't see Mila herself). 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Kalken

[Interdimensional Observer]

36 minutes ago, Kalken said:

This is assumption. Not only does Kaga's later work establish that all so-called gods are really dragons, but Duma's map sprite in Gaiden looks obviously like a dragon (we don't see Mila herself). 

Only that Naga and the 11 who descended on Darna were dragons and not gods. Only these.

And note this from the old Mysteries of FE- Archanea's Story here on SF. The translator admitted their Japanese skills weren't good, but if you wish to contest the translation, a link to the original Japanese is provided so we could have someone here on SF check it.

Q3: What is magic in the world of Fire Emblem?

Comment: Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc. Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. To release this energy requires a certain amount of skill, such as by chanting keywords or through mental control techniques. In order to acquire a sufficient skill level, one must undergo self-training. Prayers to the deities seems to reveal the keywords, while it also raises one’s mental capacity. Meanwhile, to protect the most powerful spells, like Aura or Excalibur, Gotoh attached a contract to them so that only the user could wield them. The same kind of protection was also placed on the Falchion.

So I'd take the parts I bolded to mean that just because Naga, Forseti, and Loptyr aren't gods, that doesn't mean true gods don't exist. They do. And, because we have no spoken or written confirmation of Duma or Mila being dragons or being gods in OG Gaiden, there is the possibility of them being either.

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Only that Naga and the 11 who descended on Darna were dragons and not gods. Only these.

And note this from the old Mysteries of FE- Archanea's Story here on SF. The translator admitted their Japanese skills weren't good, but if you wish to contest the translation, a link to the original Japanese is provided so we could have someone here on SF check it.

Q3: What is magic in the world of Fire Emblem?

Comment: Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc. Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. To release this energy requires a certain amount of skill, such as by chanting keywords or through mental control techniques. In order to acquire a sufficient skill level, one must undergo self-training. Prayers to the deities seems to reveal the keywords, while it also raises one’s mental capacity. Meanwhile, to protect the most powerful spells, like Aura or Excalibur, Gotoh attached a contract to them so that only the user could wield them. The same kind of protection was also placed on the Falchion.

So I'd take the parts I bolded to mean that just because Naga, Forseti, and Loptyr aren't gods, that doesn't mean true gods don't exist. They do. And, because we have no spoken or written confirmation of Duma or Mila being dragons or being gods in OG Gaiden, there is the possibility of them being either.

I think the deities in the context here are not actually gods, but just what people believe. I consider that these things are actually quintessence. In FE4, when Claud tries to explain the case of how the Valkyrie staff works and its limitations, he mentions quintessence. Quintessence is the essence of life after all, which exists everywhere, so when they utilize the energy to create magic, they are drawing in the quintessence that exists around the elements. 

Gotoh just dumbed it down for them.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

I think the deities in the context here are not actually gods, but just what people believe. I consider that these things are actually quintessence. In FE4, when Claud tries to explain the case of how the Valkyrie staff works and its limitations, he mentions quintessence. Quintessence is the essence of life after all, which exists everywhere, so when they utilize the energy to create magic, they are drawing in the quintessence that exists around the elements. 

 

The all-knowing developer opens this with "Originally primitive deities existed at Archanea", which given the developer knows all and isn't trying to hide things here, would mean these truly were deities. But that is just me.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The all-knowing developer opens this with "Originally primitive deities existed at Archanea", which given the developer knows all and isn't trying to hide things here, would mean these truly were deities. But that is just me.

The all knowing developer also had the Falchion be just a weapon that was carved from Naga's fang. But then comes FE4 and Falchion is said to be a lot like the Jugdral Holy Weapons, in that it has a dragonstone. Ideas change and evolve as time goes on. 

[Kalken]

22 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Only that Naga and the 11 who descended on Darna were dragons and not gods. Only these.

And note this from the old Mysteries of FE- Archanea's Story here on SF. The translator admitted their Japanese skills weren't good, but if you wish to contest the translation, a link to the original Japanese is provided so we could have someone here on SF check it.

Q3: What is magic in the world of Fire Emblem?

Comment: Originally primitive deities existed at Akaneia and people believed these deities existed in all things. To lead mankind, Gotoh utilised the power of these deities. Magic (both offensive and recovery) is about as advanced as the dragon race’s technology, but it was difficult and dangerous for humans to use. Gotoh convinced humans to borrow the deities’ powers and warned them at the same time. So fire magic comes from the deity of fire, wind magic is borrowed from the deity of wind and etc. Magic is thus the technology where one harnesses energy that exists naturally. Spell books and staves can be thought of as vessels that store this energy. To release this energy requires a certain amount of skill, such as by chanting keywords or through mental control techniques. In order to acquire a sufficient skill level, one must undergo self-training. Prayers to the deities seems to reveal the keywords, while it also raises one’s mental capacity. Meanwhile, to protect the most powerful spells, like Aura or Excalibur, Gotoh attached a contract to them so that only the user could wield them. The same kind of protection was also placed on the Falchion.

So I'd take the parts I bolded to mean that just because Naga, Forseti, and Loptyr aren't gods, that doesn't mean true gods don't exist. They do. And, because we have no spoken or written confirmation of Duma or Mila being dragons or being gods in OG Gaiden, there is the possibility of them being either.

We never encounter those alleged gods, so my point stands. That doesn't counter what I said about Duma's map sprite either.

What evidence do you have that Duma and Mila aren't dragons within context of just Kaga's work?

Edited January 27, 2018 by Kalken

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Kalken said:

What evidence do you have that Duma and Mila aren't dragons within context of just Kaga's work?

I never explicitly argued M & D weren't dragons, only that the door is open to them not being them because it isn't definitely said and non-dragon gods are said to exist. Your only evidence from Gaiden for them being dragons is Duma's sprite, which is hardly irrefutable proof, even if it offers some evidence for the dragon argument.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 7:42 PM, omegaxis1 said:

The all knowing developer also had the Falchion be just a weapon that was carved from Naga's fang. But then comes FE4 and Falchion is said to be a lot like the Jugdral Holy Weapons, in that it has a dragonstone. Ideas change and evolve as time goes on. 

I won't deny that. But this Q&A came after Mystery's release, so after Gaiden and hence relevant to it until SoV. But SoV changes nothing about Gaiden itself, it doesn't make Gaiden Leon gay, nor does it stop making Gaiden M&D exist in a limbo where they might be dragon or might not be. SoV Leon is a remade Gaiden Leon, but is at the same time not Gaiden Leon himself- call it an altered/enhanced clone of Leon in an equally clone world (though CYL has every right to list them as one).

And it doesn't say the Falchion is the same as Aura and Excalibur in where it gets its power from, only that it has the same kind of protection to limit its use. And Aura like Falchion, was passed on from one generation to another with the seal intact and only the descendant able to use it (ignore the DS retcon of who can use it). Gotoh, the one who first put seals on powerful magics, gave the Falchion to Anri, and since Naga was long dead by the time Anri came to be, he had to be the one to bind it to Anri's line.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never explicitly argued M & D weren't dragons, only that the door is open to them not being them because it isn't definitely said and non-dragon gods are said to exist. Your only evidence from Gaiden for them being dragons is Duma's sprite, which is hardly irrefutable proof, even if it offers some evidence for the dragon argument.

I won't deny that. But this Q&A came after Mystery's release, so after Gaiden and hence relevant to it until SoV. But SoV changes nothing about Gaiden itself, it doesn't make Gaiden Leon gay, nor does it stop making Gaiden M&D exist in a limbo where they might be dragon or might not be. SoV Leon is a remade Gaiden Leon, but is at the same time not Gaiden Leon himself- call it an altered/enhanced clone of Leon in an equally clone world (though CYL has every right to list them as one).

And it doesn't say the Falchion is the same as Aura and Excalibur in where it gets its power from, only that it has the same kind of protection to limit its use. And Aura like Falchion, was passed on from one generation to another with the seal intact and only the descendant able to use it (ignore the DS retcon of who can use it). Gotoh, the one who first put seals on powerful magics, gave the Falchion to Anri, and since Naga was long dead by the time Anri came to be, he had to be the one to bind it to Anri's line.

Yeah, it isn't until Genealogy that Kaga begins to explain more differences and says that Aura is in fact also like the Jugdral weapons by also having a Dragonstone on it as well. Though the remakes altered some gameplay mechanics, either for better or for worse, the statements of the lore behind the things have changed. Personally, I prefer what my friend says he likes about Fire Emblem, about how there are no true gods in the world, but rather powerful entities that are like gods. Of course, this is not counting Ashera, who is a real god. 

The seal that Gotoh placed on Aura and Falchion didn't just tie to bloodlines, but somehow Aura's seal made it so that men could not wield it after Miloah passed on for some reason. And though Anri never had children, the seal that linked to his bloodline allowed undirect descendants to wield Falchion. Although Marth may in fact be a descendant of Seliph and/or Julia. Tiki does mention in Awakening that Chrom resembles a man from the period of her birth, who would have to be Sigurd/Seliph.

In that case, it makes all the more sense on how Marth and Anri can wield Falchion, because if they have Naga blood in them as well... well, there you go.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Tiki does mention in Awakening that Chrom resembles a man from the period of her birth, who would have to be Sigurd/Seliph.

In that case, it makes all the more sense on how Marth and Anri can wield Falchion, because if they have Naga blood in them as well... well, there you go.

Whattttt?????? 

How would a newborn power-loaded Tiki somehow remembering seeing Seliph? No- what I should be asking is why Seliph or Julia would be in Archanea during or after the wars between Naga and co. vs. the Earths and co.. I'll buy fate as the excuse as to how Anri their descendant of all people got to the Falchion, but what were they doing there at all? Doesn't Seliph have a kingdom to run? What would he be doing in the savage lands of Archanea? This isn't the modern day where you can break out your iPhone and send emails back and forth on what to do about national policy. Seliph has to be at home to actually rule anything.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

Whattttt?????? 

How would a newborn power-loaded Tiki somehow remembering seeing Seliph? No- what I should be asking is why Seliph or Julia would be in Archanea during or after the wars between Naga and co. vs. the Earths and co.. I'll buy fate as the excuse as to how Anri their descendant of all people got to the Falchion, but what were they doing there at all? Doesn't Seliph have a kingdom to run? What would he be doing in the savage lands of Archanea? This isn't the modern day where you can break out your iPhone and send emails back and forth on what to do about national policy. Seliph has to be at home to actually rule anything.

Uhh... you might have actually made a mistake on something. The events of Genealogy takes place a millennia before Shadow Dragon. Furthermore, Anri is actually Marth's great granduncle, who lived about 68 years before Marth. 

So literally there is a huge timegap. Canonically Seliph and Julia never got together, but say that they each got married, but their descendants got married and such, its entirely possible for Seliph and Julia's bloodlines to have mixed through their descendants , who then went to Archanea, and settled there, and as the bloodline continued on, it eventually had Anri and his brother, and there you go, we have Marth and ultimately the Exalts.

[Slumber]

Isn't Dragon Blood besides Loptyr Blood(Since his entire life essence is literally in descendants of Galle) temporary? Even if Marth and Chrom were far, far, far descendants of Sigurd/Seliph, wouldn't Naga's bloodline have lost power after 3000 years?

Plus, the Naga who gave her blood is dead by the time of Chrom, and the role is gone entirely in Lucina's timeline, so there would be no Naga to draw power from, yet she still uses the Falchion just fine.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Uhh... you might have actually made a mistake on something. The events of Genealogy takes place a millennia before Shadow Dragon. Furthermore, Anri is actually Marth's great granduncle, who lived about 68 years before Marth. 

So literally there is a huge timegap. Canonically Seliph and Julia never got together, but say that they each got married, but their descendants got married and such, its entirely possible for Seliph and Julia's bloodlines to have mixed through their descendants , who then went to Archanea, and settled there, and as the bloodline continued on, it eventually had Anri and his brother, and there you go, we have Marth and ultimately the Exalts.

I assumed it had to be Seliph who went to Archanea, which would be.... -600-ish on the Archanean calendar. But a random unnamed descendant works too. But then that means Ike can't be Anri! And I refuse to have that! Or does it? I'm joking.

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I assumed it had to be Seliph who went to Archanea, which would be.... -600-ish on the Archanean calendar. But a random unnamed descendant works too. But then that means Ike can't be Anri! And I refuse to have that! Or does it? I'm joking.

Doesn't Awakening also put the kibosh on that? People know who Ike is in Awakening, and he has his own title. Given how into his family history he is, I don't think Chrom would be able to miss the fact that the Hero of Blue Flame was part of his family.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

I assumed it had to be Seliph who went to Archanea, which would be.... -600-ish on the Archanean calendar. But a random unnamed descendant works too. But then that means Ike can't be Anri! And I refuse to have that! Or does it? I'm joking.

Huh... Ike/Enlincia/Geoffrey = Anri/Artemis/Cartas... Interesting. 

But yeah, no. Can't be Seliph, so I'll believe its a descendant of his and Julia's, since Julia is the one that has Naga blood. Given how things are, Jugdral is a VERY far away continent. In fact, I have beliefs that Nowi might in fact be from Jugdral. In her support with Donnel, she explains that her birthplace was somewhere "left" across the ocean. Donnel assumes west, and given that we've been through Archanea/Ylisse and Valentia/Valm, Nowi had to come from a different continent, and the only other continent that we know exists in the same word as Archanea and Valentia is Jugdral. 

[Lightchao42]

21 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Isn't Dragon Blood besides Loptyr Blood(Since his entire life essence is literally in descendants of Galle) temporary?

There's no mention of dragon blood ever fading, but it's magic so it doesn't need to follow real world logic of dilution or anything like that.

Either way, Chrom being a descendant of Seliph or Julia or whoever doesn't matter because Naga also made a blood pact with the First Exalt, so his previous ancestry wouldn't have any influence on his ability to use Falchion.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Lightchao42

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Huh... Ike/Enlincia/Geoffrey = Anri/Artemis/Cartas... Interesting. 

Again, that was supposed to be a joke. Ike leaves Ragnell in Begnion, leaves the continent and in his travels stumbles on Archanea. And blending in on Altea, his origins as Telliusian fade away and he takes a new name.

I don't see the parallel with AAC. Geoffrey is Finn, Elincia is original with Jugdralian Pegasus Knight cosmetics, and Ike is pretty original too. Not to mention there is no curse, Japanese PoR Ike has no romance in his language with Elincia, and Geoffrey certainly is no Cartas in terms of ability insofar as we know of his reputation pre-Daein invasion, Renning if anyone would be Cartas.

13 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Isn't Dragon Blood besides Loptyr Blood(Since his entire life essence is literally in descendants of Galle) temporary? Even if Marth and Chrom were far, far, far descendants of Sigurd/Seliph, wouldn't Naga's bloodline have lost power after 3000 years?

 

I always hear this, and I do recall a line where it says the seals if broken on blood locked weapons weakens them. But I forget if there is any interview or developer note that outright says the bloodlines fade. None of the three SF links in for Genealogy in the Developer's Notes section says it.

[Kalken]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never explicitly argued M & D weren't dragons, only that the door is open to them not being them because it isn't definitely said and non-dragon gods are said to exist. Your only evidence from Gaiden for them being dragons is Duma's sprite, which is hardly irrefutable proof, even if it offers some evidence for the dragon argument.

It's not just the map sprite. There are their abilities (bring life to the land, inadvertably triggering an undead invasion, grant Rudolf a sword able to kill them), which considering Kaga's later work are well within the skills of dragons. Kaga's later work also never depicts tangible deities who aren't dragons or didn't use the blood of one.

[omegaxis1]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Again, that was supposed to be a joke. Ike leaves Ragnell in Begnion, leaves the continent and in his travels stumbles on Archanea. And blending in on Altea, his origins as Telliusian fade away and he takes a new name.

I don't see the parallel with AAC. Geoffrey is Finn, Elincia is original with Jugdralian Pegasus Knight cosmetics, and Ike is pretty original too. Not to mention there is no curse, Japanese PoR Ike has no romance in his language with Elincia, and Geoffrey certainly is no Cartas in terms of ability insofar as we know of his reputation pre-Daein invasion, Renning if anyone would be Cartas.

I know. I was joking as well. XD

There's no proof that Ragnell was ever left behind though, since Ragnell somehow ended up in the hands of Priam.

6 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

There's no mention of dragon blood ever fading, but it's magic so it doesn't need to follow real world logic of dilution or anything like that.

Either way, Chrom being a descendant of Seliph or Julia or whoever doesn't matter because Naga also made a blood pact with the First Exalt, so his previous ancestry wouldn't have any influence on his ability to use Falchion.

Of course. However, Falchion has always been locked to Anri's bloodline, and then tied to Marth's, as Marth was the only one that was said to be able to wield Falchion. It clearly shows that this trait got inherited throughout. And now even has the added lore that if it isn't used by someone the weapon accepts, the blade is so dull it cannot cut even wood, while if it does accept them, the weapon can cut through virtually anything. 

And the new blood pact seemed meant more for the Awakening ritual than actually just wielding the blade now. 

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I always hear this, and I do recall a line where it says the seals if broken on blood locked weapons weakens them. But I forget if there is any interview or developer note that outright says the bloodlines fade. None of the three SF links in for Genealogy in the Developer's Notes section says it.

Well, given how the weapons in Awakening's time are now breakable and supposedly not as strong as before, but now usable by anyone, it does make sense. The bloodlines of Major and Minor have likely faded, the seals on the dragonstones as well, so the weapons are now weaker, but still strong, and usable by anyone.

[darkblade2814]

On 24/01/2018 at 7:27 PM, Hawkwing said:

1. If they did go, the mysterious traveller who starts the post-game quest would of had knowledge of Grima (somehow), heard that Valentia's new king had a weapon that could kill gods/dragons, and decided to enlist his aid. Since it only takes around a week to sail between the two continents, it's not to much of a stretch to say they had the time for the detour. Regardless, it would explain why Alm's Dynasty is noted to have lasted for only 1000 years, as well as why Valentia is no longer united by the time of Awakening; Grima remembered who sealed him first, and took revenge by wiping out Alm's bloodline and destroying much of the kingdom. I'd venture a guess that the Falchion was destroyed in the battle against him, perhaps even weakening Grima to the point that he could be defeated by the Exalt, and given Grima's destructive power, it could also explain why medieval weaponry is still in common use despite the time gap between these events.

According to Japan-only Suplementary material Walhart is a decsndent of Alm and Celica (English is not my first lenguage)

[Hawkwing]

3 hours ago, darkblade2814 said:

According to Japan-only Suplementary material Walhart is a decsndent of Alm and Celica (English is not my first lenguage)

That wouldn't surprise me. It's stated that Alm's dynasty lasted 1000 years, but his bloodline could still continue, even if they no longer hold any royal power.

It's overall ambiguous if Walhart is actually their descendant, just inspired by him (Alm did, after all, accidentally conquer an entire continent), or both.