Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Armagon]

30 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

@Armagon

 

Speaking as someone who's barely touch the series but I've seen (very little) gameplay of Xenoblade 2 & Rex & Pyra/Mythra looks very difficult to implement. I've seen people take either the Pokemon Trainer or Ice Climbers route. The former doesn't look it'll do the characters' justice while the latter seems way too complicated to program. Again, speaking out of ignorance since I don't know even know what Mythra's function is.

 

In comparison, wouldn't Elma being easier choice to pick because her style isn't nearly complex?

Actially, the Pokemon Trainer route would be pretty accurate. Or rather, reverse Pokemon Trainer. Basically, Rex is the one doing the fighting while Pyra is in the background. Rex can switch between Pyra and Mythra and maybe have like, one of his moves changed. In the original game, Rex's Arts stay the same regardless of whether Pyra or Mythra is out (since Pyra and Mythra are technically the same Blade) and the only thing that changes are the Blade Specials.

Though i will agree that Elma is definitley the easier of the two to implement. Still, i don't think it'd be too hard for Sakurai and his team to implement Rex&Pyra.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I think we'll get at least one, at least in the base game. When Smash Ultimate began development, Xenoblade X had just released in America and Europe and it had already been out in Japan for a few months so out of sheer relevancy at the time, we'll probably get Elma, who would be very unique with her dual gun and sword style and Overdrive mechanic.

Overdrive... how to capture the spirit of that? It's a heightened state of awareness enabling superhuman reflexes, Nagi's 2nd Affinity Mission I believe shows what it looks like for someone to be in Overdrive to an ordinary spectator (I never got to that, one of the few Affinity Missions I didn't).  

Gameplay-wise, it is manifested as accelerated cooldown times, and it unlocks tertiary cooldowns for stronger arts in addition to faster ones. Overdrive is accessible via accruing TP from auto-attacking enemies (melee weapons giving more generally), using certain Artes, and IIRC Soul Voices. Once in Overdrive, the timer on it begins counting down, but through the use of certain arts, greens and blues, one can extend its duration, and by using the Overdrive command while in Overdrive to reset the timer. Then there is the Overdrive counter, which increases by one for every hit deal in Overdrive, starting at 0, and maxing at MAX with 100 hits. A higher OD counter is, the faster arts cooldown, and various other little bonuses like increased EXP gain are unlocked. Multi-hit and AoE arts are thus the best for building up the OD counter.

If Overdrive wasn't passive or the Final Smash (but this would be a transformation FS, and aren't they doing away with those?), then as a Special it'd be the Down Special like Limit Break, the former Transform, and the Pokemon switching. And the Down Special would be great for Ghostwalker or Ghost Factory, which I have a slight liking for due to how the Decoys they give would be novel. Ghost Factory is even one of Elma's two Signature Arts, meaning only she has it of the non-MCs, and for the MC to get it, they have to finish her 2nd Affinity Mission.

If Overdrive wasn't her Final Smash, then they'd just have to bring in a Skell for it. Ideally an Ares model due to Elma's history with them, shooting off its Aghasura Cannon, its strongest weapon.

Were they to integrate Overdrive as the Down Special, I'd ignore the increased damage part via tertiary cooldowns and just increase Elma's movement and attack speeds. After she deals X% amount of damage, she could temporarily enter Overdrive, perhaps with the ability to keep it going so as long as she kept smacking foes. In the hands of a pro, if Elma's moveset had enough natural comboability, then increased attack speed could let her rack up a lot of hits and damage real fast.

 

Her Dash Attack hopefully would be based on Sliding Slinger, it seems quite suitable for that if memory doesn't fail me. Hundred Shells (which is Dual Swords art despite "Shell" sounding like ammo) would make a good Side Smash.

[Zangetsu]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Actially, the Pokemon Trainer route would be pretty accurate. Or rather, reverse Pokemon Trainer. Basically, Rex is the one doing the fighting while Pyra is in the background. Rex can switch between Pyra and Mythra and maybe have like, one of his moves changed. In the original game, Rex's Arts stay the same regardless of whether Pyra or Mythra is out (since Pyra and Mythra are technically the same Blade) and the only thing that changes are the Blade Specials.

Though i will agree that Elma is definitley the easier of the two to implement. Still, i don't think it'd be too hard for Sakurai and his team to implement Rex&Pyra.

Pyra & Mythra are just medics/supports? They're not even combat medics/supports?

I must've heard Alpharad wrong then

Edited August 28, 2018 by Zangetsu

[Armagon]

29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Were they to integrate Overdrive as the Down Special, I'd ignore the increased damage part via tertiary cooldowns and just increase Elma's movement and attack speeds. After she deals X% amount of damage, she could temporarily enter Overdrive, perhaps with the ability to keep it going so as long as she kept smacking foes. In the hands of a pro, if Elma's moveset had enough natural comboability, then increased attack speed could let her rack up a lot of hits and damage real fast.

You know, that's exactly how i imagine Overdrive would work in Smash. Though the part where she can continously keep it going would only be balanced if the TP gauge only fills when dealing damage, unlike Limit Break and KO Punch where taking damage also counts.

A mechanic like that would probably earn Elma a pretty high spot on the tier-list.

25 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Pyra & Mythra are just medics/supports? They're not even combat medics/supports?

I must've hear Alpharad wrong then

No, they aren't medics. They have a support role, yes, but when push comes to shove, they are very well capable of fighting on their own. Pyra and Mythra aren't just Blades. They're an Aegis, the most powerful Blade (and Mythra even has her own mech because it's a Xeno game so there was bound to be a mech somewhere). Blade Specials are preformed by the Blades themselves while Arts are preformed by the Driver (in this case, Rex). Smash would probably take a few liberties here by having Rex do the Blade Specials because having Pyra/Mythra come onto the foreground for a few seconds for one attack might be a bit much.

Although Xenoblade lore does tell us (and will actually show us in the upcoming Golden Country expansion, which is just it's own game at this point), that there was a time when Blades fought seperately from their Driver so just having Pyra/Mythra be in Smash without Rex is plausible. But the lore also states that the current method of combat seen in Xenoblade 2, where the Driver uses the Blade's weapon while the Blade provides ehanced powers to their Driver, is more optimal than Blades and Drivers fighting seperately, which is why having Rex&Pyra is the prefered choice when it comes to a Xenoblade 2 rep.

[Zangetsu]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

No, they aren't medics. They have a support role, yes, but when push comes to shove, they are very well capable of fighting on their own. Pyra and Mythra aren't just Blades. They're an Aegis, the most powerful Blade (and Mythra even has her own mech because it's a Xeno game so there was bound to be a mech somewhere). Blade Specials are preformed by the Blades themselves while Arts are preformed by the Driver (in this case, Rex). Smash would probably take a few liberties here by having Rex do the Blade Specials because having Pyra/Mythra come onto the foreground for a few seconds for one attack might be a bit much.

Although Xenoblade lore does tell us (and will actually show us in the upcoming Golden Country expansion, which is just it's own game at this point), that there was a time when Blades fought seperately from their Driver so just having Pyra/Mythra be in Smash without Rex is plausible. But the lore also states that the current method of combat seen in Xenoblade 2, where the Driver uses the Blade's weapon while the Blade provides ehanced powers to their Driver, is more optimal than Blades and Drivers fighting seperately, which is why having Rex&Pyra is the prefered choice when it comes to a Xenoblade 2 rep.

Ok, so I guess the more accurate/better question would be "Does Pyra/Mythra have any movesets & can be implement with Rex"? And is there a way for Mythra to be implement into the game as well or would she complicate things further for  Rex's/their inclusion?

[Jotari]

The most accurate thing would probably to have her appear in the background like the Pomemon Trainer. Maybe jumping in for a Final Smash.

[NinjaMonkey]

3 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

But the one absolute character I do not want is Paper Mario. I know why people want him in & I know he wouldn't Mario's clone like Dr. Mario, but that doesn't change the fact he's still Mario. People are gonna go on hating any Fire Emblem characters, but make a pass for Paper Mario? No, screw that noise, if you gonna hate on overexposure & representation then you better be saying the same jazz when it comes Mario & Pokemon.

Mario and Pokemon are Nintendo's two most profitable and recognisable franchises, so they are actually deserving of more spots on the roster (unlike Fire Emblem).

[Zangetsu]

25 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Mario and Pokemon are Nintendo's two most profitable and recognisable franchises, so they are actually deserving of more spots on the roster (unlike Fire Emblem).

So what? If you're gonna preach about deserving than Ganondorf should've never been a clone & Dr. Mario & Duck Hunt shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.

And this whole "I'm being the bigger guy here because I don't want anymore characters from one of my favorite franchises" isn't working. It's popularity contest now for Ultimate but the next installment everyone is fair game. So Marx is deserving as much the Urban Champion Duo

Edited August 28, 2018 by Zangetsu

[NinjaMonkey]

6 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

So what? If you're gonna preach about deserving than Ganondorf should've never been a clone & Dr. Mario & Duck shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.

Duck Hunt was the obscure retro rep Sakurai adds to throw people off. It's basically a tradition at this point.

Quote

And this whole "I'm being the bigger guy here because I don't want anymore characters from one of my favorite franchises" isn't working.

Thing is, I actually don't like Fire Emblem all that much, so that argument doesn't work.

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Thing is, I actually don't like Fire Emblem all that much, so that argument doesn't work.

If I may be so bold to ask then, why are you on/why did you join  SF if you don’t like fire emblem all that much?

[Zangetsu]

2 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Duck Hunt was the obscure retro rep Sakurai adds to throw people off. It's basically a tradition at this point.

Doesn't change the last they were in was "Wii Play"

 

7 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Thing is, I actually don't like Fire Emblem all that much, so that argument doesn't work.

I've been questioning for awhile now on whether I like the Fire Emblem franchise enough to actually interact with the community but this?

So what, you're just another hater?

[NinjaMonkey]

16 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

If I may be so bold to ask then, why are you on/why did you join  SF if you don’t like fire emblem all that much?

I liked it back when I first joined, but ever since Awakening came and split the fanbase, I've gone right off it.

Edited August 28, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[DisobeyedCargo]

2 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I liked it back when I first joined, but ever since Awakening came and split the fanbase, I've gone right off it.

You don’t enjoy the games anymore because of the fan base?

[Interdimensional Observer]

46 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You know, that's exactly how i imagine Overdrive would work in Smash. Though the part where she can continously keep it going would only be balanced if the TP gauge only fills when dealing damage, unlike Limit Break and KO Punch where taking damage also counts.

 

Fortunately, TP never fills from taking damage in XCX, unless you count the Essence Exchange art, which exchanges current HP and TP (and if used at 0 TP will instantly kill you- a mistake you are likely to make at least once; not bad for a quick instant fill up between battles though). Fortunately that wouldn't work in Smash, and Elma can't get it because it is for Photon Sabers and a Signature Art of Yelv. And continual Overdrive isn't really necessary, I only bring it up because "infinite Overdrive" wherein you get an OD and keep it going for the entire fight, is a legitimate combat strat in XCX, I've done it before.

[NinjaMonkey]

13 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

You don’t enjoy the games anymore because of the fan base?

That and the games being lacklustre at best has soured my opinion of the series, yes. The only thing I enjoy about FE anymore is playing Radiant Dawn.

Edited August 28, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

That and the games being lacklustre at best has soured my opinion of the series, yes. The only thing I enjoy about FE anymore is playing Radiant Dawn.

How does the fan base affect your ability to enjoy a game on your own?

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Ok, so I guess the more accurate/better question would be "Does Pyra/Mythra have any movesets & can be implement with Rex"? And is there a way for Mythra to be implement into the game as well or would she complicate things further for  Rex's/their inclusion?

Yes, Pyra and Mythra have potential movesets in their Blade Specials (which are Mythra's regular Arts in Golden Country) and they can be implemented with Rex. Here's how i see a potential moveset for Rex.

Neutral-B: Blade Special. If Pyra is active, releases an AoE fire blast. If Mythra is active, launches a sphere of light.

Side-B: Rolling Smash. Basically Back Slash but without the bonus damage from behind.

Up-B: Roc. Rex calls upon Roc to take to the skies.

Down-B: Blade Switch. Switches between Pyra or Mythra.

Final Smash: Burning Sword/Sacred Arrow. If Pyra is active, the Final Smash is Burning Sword, a trapping move. If Mythra, Sacred Arrow, an AoE Final Smash similar to PK Startstorm.

I got another idea for Rex's Final Smash but spoilers.

Rex also has a grappling hook so that's an automatic tether grab for him.

58 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Mario and Pokemon are Nintendo's two most profitable and recognisable franchises, so they are actually deserving of more spots on the roster (unlike Fire Emblem).

I mean, it'd be upset if Mario or Pokemon begin to take half of the roster. Like, i like the Mario series as much as the next guy (Game Freak's been disapointing me recently with USUM and now Let's GO) but even for those two titans of a video game franchise, there should be a limit as to how much they get in Smash. I'd personally say that the max number of reps any series should get in Smash is 10. And as of yet, no series has reached that cap.

Honestly, i dislike the mentality that some franchises deserve more reps in Smash than others. Popularity is a factor but not the final say, otherwise folks like Shulk and Pit would've never gotten into Smash. This whole thing of certain franchises deserving more reps than others is on the same tier of "x character stole y's spot".

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I only bring it up because "infinite Overdrive" wherein you get an OD and keep it going for the entire fight, is a legitimate combat strat in XCX, I've done it before.

It's also a thing in XC2 now, albeit, much easier to do since it relies on the Party Gauge. 

 

 

[Zangetsu]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yes, Pyra and Mythra have potential movesets in their Blade Specials (which are Mythra's regular Arts in Golden Country) and they can be implemented with Rex. Here's how i see a potential moveset for Rex.

Neutral-B: Blade Special. If Pyra is active, releases an AoE fire blast. If Mythra is active, launches a sphere of light.

Side-B: Rolling Smash. Basically Back Slash but without the bonus damage from behind.

Up-B: Roc. Rex calls upon Roc to take to the skies.

Down-B: Blade Switch. Switches between Pyra or Mythra.

Final Smash: Burning Sword/Sacred Arrow. If Pyra is active, the Final Smash is Burning Sword, a trapping move. If Mythra, Sacred Arrow, an AoE Final Smash similar to PK Startstorm.

I got another idea for Rex's Final Smash but spoilers.

Thanks for wasting your time answering my questions, but I kept seeing Rex & Pyra being the top candidate for the Xenoblade series. So I figure why not ask from the horse mouth. Sorry for the persistent questions.

 

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I got another idea for Rex's Final Smash but spoilers.

So that's the most likely Final Smash then. Smash is anything but considerate when it comes to spoilers.

[DisobeyedCargo]

9 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I got another idea for Rex's Final Smash but spoilers.

I’ll bite what’s your idea?

[Interdimensional Observer]

24 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

So that's the most likely Final Smash then. Smash is anything but considerate when it comes to spoilers.

Since we're talking of Xenoblade, I can think of a spoiler regarding Elma that'd they could ruin for sure. A tempting one in some ways. And it isn't like they haven't ruined Xenoblade spoilers before, Fiora anyone?

[Zangetsu]

10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Since we're talking of Xenoblade, I can think of a spoiler regarding Elma that'd they could ruin for sure. A tempting one in some ways. And it isn't like they haven't ruined Xenoblade spoilers before, Fiora anyone?

Pretty much like they did with Lucina & Sheik so yeah that sounds about right.

[Armagon]

43 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Thanks for wasting your time answering my questions, but I kept seeing Rex & Pyra being the top candidate for the Xenoblade series. So I figure why not ask from the horse mouth. Sorry for the persistent questions

No worries. I'm glad to anwser any questions regarding Rex&Pyra, Xenoblade 2 or any other Xeno game.

42 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I’ll bite what’s your idea?

Coffee with Milk.

18 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Since we're talking of Xenoblade, I can think of a spoiler regarding Elma that'd they could ruin for sure. A tempting one in some ways. And it isn't like they haven't ruined Xenoblade spoilers before, Fiora anyone?

I know which spoiler you are talking about although to be fair, it doesn't have as big of an impact on the plot as other Xeno spoilers.....yet *paitently waits for X2*

[DisobeyedCargo]

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Coffee with Milk.

Oooohhh that would be good 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

I know which spoiler you are talking about although to be fair, it doesn't have as big of an impact on the plot as other Xeno spoilers.....yet *paitently waits for X2*

True, but there isn't much plot in the first place in XCX, mention that, and you'd only have 2-3 things of spoilers left at the end.

And I too am awaiting X2, I need to know the truth behind the primary cliffhanger, thinking on it always sends chills up my spine. The sight and the sound of the reveal, it's getting to me right now. I actually had a bizarre dream of XCX once. (I also had a strange dream of a Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2 being announced last night, I felt disappointed when I woke up.)

 

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

So Marx is deserving as much the Urban Champion Duo

Marx as in the one time Kirby boss? That'd never happen. -Well it did kinda sorta actually, he just got a major redesign, was unplayable, and renamed "Tabuu".

[Armagon]

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And I too am awaiting X2, I need to know the truth behind the primary cliffhanger, thinking on it always sends chills up my spine. The sight and the sound of the reveal, it's getting to me right now

I feel like X2 will definitly use the scrapped ideas from X. I often wonder what X would've been like if they didn't implement online halfway through development.

I really want to know the truth behind Mira, especially after seeing that concept art. It also wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Ghosts ended up being the Xenoblade version of the Gnosis from Xenosaga.

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

(I also had a strange dream of a Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2 being announced last night, I felt disappointed when I woke up.)

If i had that dream, i too would be disapointed. Though i just had the best of thoughts: i want this song from TMS to be in Ultimate

I want this song in Ultimate more than i want Twilight of the Gods.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Armagon