Am I the only one bothered by the seeming lack of technological progression in Archanea?

[DisobeyedCargo]

I put this in general cause it envelops the whole of the Archanea series. 

I get that there wouldn't be any from Shadow Dragon to New Mystery, but in the 2,000 years from New Mystery to Awakening, from what I've seen the level of technology they currently have is very similar to Marth's time. Am I just missing something? 2000 years is a lot of time.

[Dragoncat]

Yeah, I noticed this too. 

But apparently Awakening, in development, could have been in outer space? I remember reading something about "FE on Mars" that IS was considering at one point. I guess they didn't do it because it would piss people off who love the medieval FE.

[Emperor Hardin]

Archanea had motor vehicles with cannons, flamethrowers and lightning rods.

I guess they never did find more of the plant used for engine fuel?

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Armagon]

It's not just Archanea, all of the FE continents are forever stuck in medieval times.

Then again, modern tech is very recent all things considered. Humanity is way older than 2000 years, yet modern tech didn't really start to show up until about 200 years ago.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Armagon

[omegaxis1]

That's actually VERY easy to figure out when you think about it. See, magic is actually what is regarded as technology in Fire Emblem, and thus the progression of magic is the progression of technological advancement. 

However, recall that Grima launched his attack 1000 years before Awakening during the First Exalt's time. No one knows precisely the devastation that Grima may have wrought onto the world. So if Grima's attack ended up destroying many books that holds secrets, and many lives that had knowledge of advancements were lost. 

In other words, Grima's attack on the world is something that forced Archanea, and by extension Valentia as well, into a period of restart where they started over from square one. So by Awakening's time, they have caught up back to what Archanea had. Though even then, it's clear that some things have been lost. We no longer have the Blizzard tome anymore. 

[Nym]

I don't know, maybe in term of weapon technology.

But for social and economy though, it has greatly improved since Marth's time.

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

It's not just Archanea, all of the FE continents are forever stuck in medieval times.

Then again, modern tech is very recent all things considered. Humanity is way older than 2000 years, yet modern tech didn't really start to show up until about 200 years ago.

The Archanea world is the only one we see over the course of ~3000 years, which is why I think it's the go-to.

From Jugdral to Ylisse, it seems like there's been 0 progress in the world. Mobile ballista were a thing in Archanea, but it seems like technology actually regressed from Marth's time to Chrom's time, since those are nowhere to be found 2000 years later.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Slumber

[Emperor Hardin]

5 minutes ago, Nym said:

I don't know, maybe in term of weapon technology.

But for social and economy though, it has greatly improved since Marth's time.

How so? Characters like Sully act like all the female knights from Archanea never existed.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

The Archanea world is the only one we see over the course of ~3000 years, which is why I think it's the go-to.

From Jugdral to Ylisse, it seems like there's been 0 progress in the world. Mobile ballista were a thing in Archanea, but it seems like technology actually regressed from Marth's time to Chrom's time.

Maybe the lack of ballista is cause of Grima's first attack?

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's actually VERY easy to figure out when you think about it. See, magic is actually what is regarded as technology in Fire Emblem, and thus the progression of magic is the progression of technological advancement. 

However, recall that Grima launched his attack 1000 years before Awakening during the First Exalt's time. No one knows precisely the devastation that Grima may have wrought onto the world. So if Grima's attack ended up destroying many books that holds secrets, and many lives that had knowledge of advancements were lost. 

In other words, Grima's attack on the world is something that forced Archanea, and by extension Valentia as well, into a period of restart where they started over from square one. So by Awakening's time, they have caught up back to what Archanea had. Though even then, it's clear that some things have been lost. We no longer have the Blizzard tome anymore. 

Huh, never really thought about it that way. Though it does make me wonder why Archanea has tomes and Valaneian mages have to use their own life force.

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, DisobeyedCargo said:

Maybe the lack of ballista is cause of Grima's first attack?

They weren't ballistas, they were actual canons and flamethrowers running on a motorized carriage. Beck even mentions they ran out of the plan used for the engine's fuel.

Just now, DisobeyedCargo said:

Maybe the lack of ballista is cause of Grima's first attack?

Jugdral was under Loptyr longer and they didn't lose anything.

 

[DisobeyedCargo]

Just now, Emperor Hardin said:

They weren't ballistas, they were actual canons and flamethrowers running on a motorized carriage. Beck even mentions they ran out of the plan used for the engine's fuel.

 

The fuck??! You'd think SOMEONE would have kept records of them safe m.

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Mobile ballista were a thing in Archanea, but it seems like technology actually regressed from Marth's time to Chrom's time, since those are nowhere to be found 2000 years later.

Wasn't this explained in FE3 though? The plant used to run ballista died out which is why FE3 ballista don't move.

1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Though it does make me wonder why Archanea has tomes and Valaneian mages have to use their own life force.

Valentians never figured out how to use Tomes. The whole point of Tomes is to not use your own body to channel magic, since it hurts you. It also explains why Tomes break after a certain amount of uses.

Of course, Valentian mages using Nosferatu is actually a benefit to them since they don't damage their bodies.

By Chrom's time, Valentians seem to have adapted Tome usage.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Huh, never really thought about it that way. Though it does make me wonder why Archanea has tomes and Valaneian mages have to use their own life force.

I think it's mentioned in some supplemental material, but the gist of it is that magic tomes and staffs are things Gotoh introduced to Archanea, so humans could harness magic. Meanwhile, the people of Valentia found their own way, but without coming up with stuff like the tomes to make it safer, it's more dangerous to use.

[SoulWeaver]

5 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Huh, never really thought about it that way. Though it does make me wonder why Archanea has tomes and Valaneian mages have to use their own life force.

It's similar to how you end up with stories about nuclear-powered worlds compared to steam-powered worlds: different circumstances led to technology, or magic in this instance, progressing in separate directions with different results - you don't see any Tome-Wielders doing any Illusion Summoning bar Aversa, which is arguably not related to the Tome Usage issue.

EDIT! Forgot Gharnef. Gharnef does the Illusion stuff, but he's arguably on par with Dragons in terms of Magic usage so...

Edited March 13, 2018 by SoulWeaver

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Maybe the lack of ballista is cause of Grima's first attack?

Huh, never really thought about it that way. Though it does make me wonder why Archanea has tomes and Valaneian mages have to use their own life force.

Archanea had Gotoh to teach them tome magic. Valentia may have been taught magic by Duma and Mila, but rather than teach them tome magic like Gotoh had allowed them to, they were instead taught tomeless magic. 

Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. However, tomeless magic is likely considered inferior to tome magic, presumably due to how it requires energy from the person themselves. But by Awakening's time, Valentia has been taught tome magic clearly.

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Jugdral was under Loptyr longer and they didn't lose anything.

You're comparing the wrong entities here. Loptyr wanted to inflict suffering and despair onto humans. Grima wanted to commit straight up genocide. And to destroy the planet and grow stronger. 

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Of course, Valentian mages using Nosferatu is actually a benefit to them since they don't damage their bodies.

Probably because it was much weaker than the dark magic that Nosferatu became.

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The fuck??! You'd think SOMEONE would have kept records of them safe m.

Yup, the narration of the ballistician chapter in FE1 and its DS remake even describes the whirring of their motor engines.

Though in FE3 and its DS remake, all Ballistas are stationary, though the cannon/Flamethrower/Lightning Rods still exist. The DS remake has Beck, a playable Ballistician from Shadow Dragon explain the plant they were using for ballistician fuel recently went extinct.

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

By Chrom's time, Valentians seem to have adapted Tome usage.

They also seem to have forgotten Duma and their own history.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Yup, the narration of the ballistician chapter in FE1 and its DS remake even describes the whirring of their motor engines.

Though in FE3 and its DS remake, all Ballistas are stationary, though the cannon/Flamethrower/Lightning Rods still exist. The DS remake has Beck, a playable Ballistician from Shadow Dragon explain the plant they were using for ballistician fuel recently went extinct.

They also seem to have forgotten Duma and their own history.

You'd think they would have found ways to grow more, unless its like silent princess in BOTW in that it grows in small clusters in very few areas. 

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Wasn't this explained in FE3 though? The plant used to run ballista died out which is why FE3 ballista don't move.

But to think they didn't come up with a solution to this in the next 2000 years? They figured out that ballista could move, and then for the next 2000 years they just sat around going "Well it sucks we can't do that anymore, let's not try anything like that ever again"?

They developed MOTORIZED ENGINES, and then just abandoned the idea because their one source of fuel died? It makes sense from FE1 to FE3 where it's a short period of time and finding a solution that quickly might have been difficult, but no forward progress in two millennia?

Edited March 13, 2018 by Slumber

[Acacia Sgt]

They probably thought 3-10 range tomes were more efficient for siege weaponry than figuring out how to use ballistae again...

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

They probably thought 3-10 range tomes were more efficient for siege weaponry than figuring out how to use ballistae again...

The thing with that though, not everyone is born with he ability to use magic, where as given adequate training, anyone can use a ballista.

[Emperor Hardin]

4 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The thing with that though, not everyone is born with he ability to use magic, where as given adequate training, anyone can use a ballista.

Too be fair in Fire Emblem, Magic is very industrialized, anyone with the right training can use a tome.

But that still doesn't explain why they forgot tomes like Meteor and Swarm, in addition to never capitalizing on cannons.

I mean look at this thing?

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Too be fair in Fire Emblem, Magic is very industrialized, anyone with the right training can use a tome.

But that still doesn't explain why they forgot tomes like Meteor and Swarm, in addition to never capitalizing on cannons.

If the knowledge to create such tomes are lost, then it makes sense why they would no exist any longer. 

As for not finding alternative fuel source, they may have tried, but maybe they just never could find it.

[DisobeyedCargo]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Too be fair in Fire Emblem, Magic is very industrialized, anyone with the right training can use a tome.

But that still doesn't explain why they forgot tomes like Meteor and Swarm, in addition to never capitalizing on cannons.

Wait, I thought one had to be born with a certain gift to use magic, like with Delthea and Luthier. Or is that just for tomeless magic?

i guess that would explain why people like virion and Anna can be in magical classes like dark knight and sage

Edited March 13, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[Emperor Hardin]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wait, I thought one had to be born with a certain gift to use magic, like with Delthea and Luthier. Or is that just for tomeless magic?

Tomeless magic uses life-force so there is that to consider anyhow.

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If the knowledge to create such tomes are lost, then it makes sense why they would no exist any longer. 

As for not finding alternative fuel source, they may have tried, but maybe they just never could find it.

The engines run on the extinct plant, not the cannons.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wait, I thought one had to be born with a certain gift to use magic, like with Delthea and Luthier. Or is that just for tomeless magic?

i guess that would explain why people like virion and Anna can be in magical classes like dark knight and sage

Magic can be used by anyone. Everyone has the potential to use it. But you have to train and study a great deal to be able to utilize magic.