Jump to content

Finn Deserves Better


indigoasis
 Share

Recommended Posts

There was a reddit post of the same title that inspired me to make this topic and see what the people of SF have to say. There was an illustration to go along with it, too, but there is choice language used, so be forewarned.

Spoiler

dx06iyz2eys01.png.9365bf00d43216ee6631e53d4bf34e79.png

I understand that the more popular characters get more attention most of the time, but this is unfair to Finn. Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I was sad when I saw that Finn was not getting a personal weapon or a personal skill.  I thought he was going to be like Joshua in that he would not BK great but still good and he would have a personal weapon.  Sadly he just comes with regular brave lance and his skill set is meh, but his stats are decent at least.  I am still going to build him and use him since he is a personal favorite of mine, I just wish he had gotten more love.  The one half hope I have is that IS will give Finn a personal weapon in an update down the road, like some of the units they have given personal weapons in past updates.  Maybe if enough of Finn's fans send feedback wanting Finn to have a personal weapon IS will do it, but it would have to be a lot of people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What did they did to Finn is unfair, but I wouldn't say that Reinhardt isn't a nobody. He's one of the harder bosses in Thracia 666, and also he's supposed to be a second coming of the crusader Thrud plus he's Ishtar's personal guard for the longest of time.

They honestly should've given Finn mediocre stats, and a Brave Lance that works similar to Meisterschwert, but instead of 11 Mt it has 9 Mt, and -2 Spd penalty only or something along those lines. Completely unfair though, I agree.

Edit: Also he could be saved by Weapon Refinery, later on so it's not the worst thing ever.

Edited by Ae†her
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, neither game really gave Finn more than what he got in Heroes. Brave Lance and Miracle. Reinhardt was a monster by reputation and not to be messed with and the Thracia develops drove that point home on the map where people just usually Warpskip instead of facing him. 

Joshua does have access to Audhulma, but he is the prince of that kingdom and Audhulma is technically his once the game is over. 

Maybe they'll introduce a refinable Brave Lance that hits harder or reduces the speed penalty, because Finn does not have any special bloodlines or anything to distinguish himself to justify a uber weapon or skill. Having played FE4 numerous times and FE5 once, his claim to being useful despite his early departure in the first gen in FE4 is because his Hero/Brave Lance opens up his offense in a way that Alec, Noish, Beowulf, etc cannot exploit in Chapter 2. He was the first unit in the series to get Miracle/Prayer, and they covered that.

Raise him up and promote him to Duke Knight, and you can lead Eldigan through the forest with Finn, which helps in Lachesis not surrounded by an entire army of Cross Knights to destroy her. Brave Lance makes that possible. 

Edited by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like that Reinhardt has become so popular. I like that someone who was rather obscure got so much attention. I wish he'd stop being dragged into this (or more so, that people would stop calling him a nobody or a nothing). He got seventh on the second CYL poll, so there's a reason he got a strong alt. Why not compare Olwen, who also gets a second personal tome despite being nowhere near as popular? I know, Reinhardt gets a doubling sword, but again he has suddenly become very popular, and for good reason. He also shares his voice with Seth, not that that's important - as it isn't important he shares his voice with Legion - it just feels like the person wanted to find more reasons to complain. 

Also, to complain about an obscure character being added to Heroes really annoys me. I want to see more of that - though not to the complete op nature of Reinhardt. We now get alts after alts, and it's getting a little tiresome when he was a chance IS took, whether I personally like the characters or not. I'd have much rather seen Fred, Ilios or Carrion on the banner than alts of Olwen and Reinhardt (saving their alts for seasonals), but I'll go with what we seem to be getting and be happy at least a character I like this time got an alt. 

It would have been nice for Finn to get his own weapon - that I won't disagree, especially with the fact Ayra got her own special and her own weapon. I am happy he's free, though, since it means I will definitely get him and I don't care about stats. That being said, it would be nice if IS would finally take more chances again and give us more obscure characters... and let the more popular males (Finn, Joshua... at least BK was an alt in the end in a way) actually get the chance to shine on some banners. I do hope he gets a personal weapon refine at some point - especially one that is very similar to the master sword. 

Edited by Cute Chao
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm happy he's free because he's the only unit I really wanted, but I am a bit disappointed he didn't at least get a personal weapon along the line of Joshua where he's not especially broken but a solid unit with a unique quirk. My proposed weapon was a 9 might brave lance that had -5 speed and had a guard 3 effect. Gives him something unique and to my knowledge would be useful but hardly make him top tier.

That said, Finn has arguably the best stat distribution of any lance cav (excluding unique weapon/skill effects), though I'd say Oscar's 33/34 is better because an extra point of speed is a lot more valuable than an extra point of attack. It's really just his lack of IVs that screws him from being anything special.

I do think I might send feedback because even if his personal weapon isn't great, at least having one would be neat.

Also seconding that Reinhardt does deserve some love outside his meme status. He's a fairly noteworthy and popular boss even in Thracia and is a BAMF in the story.

Edited by bottlegnomes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I approve of saying another character deserves more and that another deserves less. It's too bad that Finn isn't better, but why put down Reinhardt? 

Hopefully, Finn gets a unique weapon later down the line. 

Edited by Thane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I like that Reinhardt has become so popular. I like that someone who was rather obscure got so much attention. I wish he'd stop being dragged into this (or more so, that people would stop calling him a nobody or a nothing). He got seventh on the second CYL poll, so there's a reason he got a strong alt. Why not compare Olwen, who also gets a second personal tome despite being nowhere near as popular? I know, Reinhardt gets a doubling sword, but again he has suddenly become very popular, and for good reason. He also shares his voice with Seth, not that that's important - as it isn't important he shares his voice with Legion - it just feels like the person wanted to find more reasons to complain. 

Also, to complain about an obscure character being added to Heroes really annoys me. I want to see more of that - though not to the complete op nature of Reinhardt. We now get alts after alts, and it's getting a little tiresome when he was a chance IS took, whether I personally like the characters or not. I'd have much rather seen Fred, Ilios or Carrion on the banner than alts of Olwen and Reinhardt (saving their alts for seasonals), but I'll go with what we seem to be getting and be happy at least a character I like this time got an alt. 

It would have been nice for Finn to get his own weapon - that I won't disagree, especially with the fact Ayra got her own special and her own weapon. I am happy he's free, though, since it means I will definitely get him and I don't care about stats. That being said, it would be nice if IS would finally take more chances again and give us more obscure characters... and let the more popular males (Finn, Joshua... at least BK was an alt in the end in a way) actually get the chance to shine on some banners. I do hope he gets a personal weapon refine at some point - especially one that is very similar to the master sword. 

Ayra's special configuration is basically a way of converting her killing potential from her original game into Heroes. Shooting Star Sword(Meteor Sword, Astra), did not nerf damage in half and had an activation percentage equal to skill and not Skill/2. Regnal Astra is basically a representation of that. It has and extremely fast activation and a reliable source of damage based on speed, which regular Astra does not have in heroes. 

Edited by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Ayra's special configuration is basically a way of converting her killing potential from her original game into Heroes. Shooting Star Sword(Meteor Sword, Astra), did not nerf damage in half and had an activation percentage equal to skill and not Skill/2. Regnal Astra is basically a representation of that. It has and extremely fast activation and a reliable source of damage based on speed, which regular Astra does not have in heroes. 

To be fair, I'm mostly just annoyed there isn't any other speed based special, especially after pulling three or four of the darn things looking for Eldigan (I really liked her before that, but now I barely use her because she annoyed me so much blocking my way to the person I wanted xD ). I don't actually mind her getting a special, but I still wish we had other speed based specials for the Lon'qus of the game...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it'd be kinda boring if the good units in FEH were simply the good units in their source games, everyone should get a chance to shine. Plus the way that picture is put together really rubs me the wrong way, it's really just someone whinging that their personal favourite should get special treatment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finn's portrayal as a unit is baffling to me when considering everything else about the World of Thracia characters.  I am happy that IS is willing to take liberties and give Prf weapons to units that didn't have them in their original games (Saias, Olwen's Thunderhead), but I'm not sure how they justify not giving one to who was arguably the most popular Jugdral character not in the game yet -- someone who actually had a Prf weapon in the source game to boot.  Him being freely distributed via TT reward is not an excuse.  Say what you want about how viable Joshua or the Audhulma is, at least he has something to help distinguish himself in the crowded pool of sword infantry.  Hell, never mind the weapon.  They couldn't even be bothered to give Finn any distinguishing skills.  If they weren't going to do him justice, at least use him to introduce something like Lance Exp, or as a non-seasonal source of Lance Valor.  

Also, I'm not going to hold my breath for possible weapon refinements.  At least, not for BST-boosted characters like Finn.  It might happen someday, but likely not for a very long time.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tempest Trial freebies are basically a bone for the less...advantaged...to get something right here, right now, and not burn orbs to get a crappy IV or burn 20,000 feathers to get the unit up to par. Lance Cavaliers in general, are a very meh group of characters except for the two big boys in Legendary Ephraim and Camus. They are generally very squishy, and those who do have a tank stat somewhere will then lack in the other defense stat, speed, or hp. Except for Camus, Legendary Ephraim, and now Finn, thus all have 154 BST or in the case of Jagen, only 148 BST. Finn actually already outclasses most of his peers, assuming a neutral nature since he has Atk, Spd, and Def, something other Lance Cavaliers except Camus cannot claim. 

Finn has a BST of 157, which ties him with Ephraim and is higher than Camus' 155 BST. They gave him the best combo of Atk, Spd, and Def given such 

I think it is a general thing that Lance Cavaliers in Fire Emblem who are not some esteemed noble with a legendary weapon are going to be "plain" and make due with the weapons for regular military. 

 

Post is not in response to anyone. It just took me 30 mins or so to write it up.

Edited by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, I'm an advocate for the "Finn should have gotten a personal weapon, Rein shouldn't even have gotten an alt that doesn't even look any freakin different", but I wouldn't go so far as to agree with what the OP image says. I mean, all things considered he is the Camus of Thracia, and Camus's tend to have more character than the other bosses you see throughout the game.

Also, for those who may care, Reinhardt was placed at 584th (137 votes) in the original CYL poll, far below many of the heroes that were placed in the game even as time went on (and ignoring Gaiden units, as Shadows of Valentia was not revealed at the time). Finn, meanwhile, was placed at 239th (1,003 votes) for his Thracia 776 appearance (His GotHW appearance was 172nd (1,053 votes)). In the second CYL, Finns Thracia appearance was placed 153rd (1,655 votes), and his GotHW appearance was 183rd (1,403 votes). And of course Reinhardt had 11th (15,931 votes) in the second CYL.

Edited by Xenomata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there was a famitsu poll 2015, for favorite fire emblem character and Finn placed #9.  He is obviously very popular in Japan, but here he is just a forgettable lance user.  Camus has a DC PRF weapon and he really stood out when he was released.  Finn has a decent stat spread, but Oscar is similar and has access to IVs.  Peri can be an even bigger offensive powerhouse since she has access to IVs also, and plus can run ploy skills due to her high res. 

Every character doesn't have to be strong and all that, but at least make Finn interesting in some way.  Oh well I guess for Tempest trials he will be useful at least.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reinhardt is kind of a bad boss in Thracia 776... it's more or less like the berserk ashnard design where you can only fight him with certain charathers. Him being too strong works against how hard he is as a boss, since you don't even have an incentive to try using less effective charathers. When you can only even try to fight him under optimal conditions, he is less hard than if there were a potential for using combinations of weaker charathers,etc. 

1.Eat magic water with a sage 2. Commit to ORKO on whoever you gave the awareness(nihil) scroll 3. Get the sword from him with Olwen 4.Status Staves 5. Bait him into capturing to half his stats.

Trying 1 can actually force 5 to happen since his master sword will usually force his AI to try capturing versus Asvel/Homer anyway. It isn' neccesary to strip people to cheese him or anything. 

The armors and cav reinforcements are a more interesting threat in  the same chapter. the status staves I can live without.

As for his story importance as a Camus.... Thracia is not really a chartherization-heavy game... He's built up a little by the Freege geneals, but we don't ever hear his own opinion on fighting for the empire/seperated from Ishtar, and Ishtar doesn't have a scene where she mourns his death or anything afterwards... his devotion may as well have been one sided. Speaking of Freege charathers, both Eyrios and Amalda are more interesting than him flat out.  Sais's own status as a descendent of a crusador overshadows Reinhardt in his own chapter, since the boss implies that Saias has a moral imperative because of it (Thrud apparently forgotten after it's earlier use as one of Reinhardt's titles)  This is all on top of the Freege arc outstaying it's welcome and monopolizing the game's narrative to the point that Leidrick is almost a "who is he again?" charather by the time you reach C24. 

So yeah, going by his FE5 merits... I don't really think he qualified as an amazing series reperesantive. 

Finn is also pretty quiet in FE5, but his appearance in the opening movie and a couple pre-chapter discussion of him from other charathers () help fill him in charatherwise. 

FE4 Finn barely exists charatherwise in gen1 since he leaves early. He can leave a nice impression beause of his combat performance, but that's about it. Both of his non-lover conversations are practically the same (Cuan giving him weapons). His lover conversations are decent, but not the best the game has to offer, and the way they are implemented is pretty much the worst in the game (GBA support levels of slow, not to mention having less chapter  to build up) He has his best charatherization when in C7-C9 of gen 2. His return is a little problematic because if you married him he's using iron lance until you pawnshop something onto him, but if you leave him unmarried he has less charatherization. 

His personal FE5 Brave Lance would be kind of silly to implement in heroes, since the real benefit of luck +10 in Thracia is 30% miracle activation (which reachs the gamebreaking 90% once Finn's own luck stat grows). And it's extra durability over the other doubling lance (master) is kind of a moot point in Hero's as well. 

I don't really think Heroes Fin needed a prf weapon or unique skills. I don't like Reinhardt either, but I think it's more a case of Thracia's larger cast deserving better than Finn deserving better. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finn won't be boring to me as I still have no Brave Lance+ user since one thing I insist to handicap myself with in Heroes is by not changing a character's weapon (I'm fine with changing all other skills, unless they are personal skills like the Recover Ring or Radiant Aether). My Effie has a refined Silver Spear, my Summer Corrin still rocks her shitty (yet refined) Sea tome, my Fae won't ever get Lightning Breath, etc. I want to preserve individuality in weapon despite probably making them less effective units than they could be.

So yeah, he'll bring something new to the team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I think Olwen should have been given the super Brave Sword. Can't really have too many complaints about Finn since the Brave Lance is his lance. It'd be sort of weird if had a made up prf just to be more special Hell, that'd be like giving Saias a prf tome when he was primarly a staff bot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While Finn seems a bit plain, I don't really think he was treated unfairly. Rather, it might be Reinhardt and Olwen that were given special treatment.

My hope for the future is that all Brave weapons (such as Finn's) can be refined to their Master versions, although I have a feeling that might really mess with the game balance XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

While Finn seems a bit plain, I don't really think he was treated unfairly. Rather, it might be Reinhardt and Olwen that were given special treatment.

My hope for the future is that all Brave weapons (such as Finn's) can be refined to their Master versions, although I have a feeling that might really mess with the game balance XD

I wanted Master Weapons to be a thing for a while now, but my idea was that, where Brave Weapons have their effect on player phase, Master Weapons would only have their effect on enemy phase. I think that would have made both distinct and useful. But the Reinhardt comes waltzing in with his awesome always Brave Sword and ruins the potential for dedicated Brave Tankers forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Maybe Finn can form a support club with this guy, who got crapped on way worse.

  Hide contents

Full Portrait Clive Idealistic Knight.png

 

Yes he shouldn't be stronger or equal to Mathilda , They should nerf him or buff her ! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Odin deserves better.

 

The image in the OP looks like the sort of argument a whiny kindergartner would make, but formalized into words. If it were funny or not blatantly biased, I wouldn't take any issue with it, but it is neither funny nor not blatantly biased.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t have any attachment to Finn or anything related to Thracia for that matter, but I do think he got the short end of the stick aside from respectable stats. With no personal weapon/skill or even a rare premium skill to set him apart from other lance cavs, he’s simply set up to be another forgettable unit. It’s a lose-lose to those who genuinely like Finn and people who hoped to at least get something out of him such as myself. 

On the topic of the OP, I have a suspicion that the person wasn’t being completely serious (especially with the irrelevant mention of voice actors). Even if the guy was legitimately salty, a few good points were brought up concerning Reinhardt and how he’s gotten where he is now, but that’s another story. Also lol about Ziss (the infamous whale who spent too much many trying to get an off-focus Hector) being mentioned. I forgot about him for a while now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...