I got sick of this game.

[_____]

I honestly think that Jill and Nolan are pretty crappy. I don't want a tier debate, but I'm just not training someone THAT may levels, including Jill, who is very crappy until about 20/5.

Luckily, Nolan starts at level 8 in a group composed of level 1-2s, which means he's easy to raise, and Jill is 14, which is even better. So, you like babying Fiona, who takes a whole hell of a lot more effort, but you don't like USING Jill or Nolan, who don't require babying?

[Florete]

10 is pretty significant, especially since he uses Axes (which are, once again, inexpensive). Whispers use really expensive, low powered knives too, so it equates to like 15 or 20 damage difference.

I'm pretty sure Cancel activates a lot more than Bane too.

I wasn't making a point about Whispers. >_<

Not on hard mode. Dunno about other modes. HM endgame starting level is more like 20/8-20/14. Compare a 20/11 Haar to a 20/9 Nephenee (he starts on a much higher level, and he sees more combat besides with his much better defense and mobility the whole game), and his avg str is 10 higher. Even after more 6 levels, it's only down to like 8-7 higher since Nephenee's str growth is only 35.

Wishblade doesn't exist until E-3, and Haar doubles everything on that chapter anyway.

I haven't played Hard mode yet, so I'm talking normal mode. That's allowed, correct? On hard mode, I imagine Haar would be among the top 3 characters in the game, right up there with Ike and Reyson.

[Destiny Hero]

It happened when Strength determined your AS. Nolan and Jill are pretty much the only ones that have to "grow into" axes, everyone else is pretty much set with them.

1. Who the hell uses Whispers? They blow.

2. Nolan and Jill are basically the ONLY units who deal with weight. Axes are by no means lightweight, since they're the heaviest weapon. And Jill has to deal with it for quite a while, which screws over the point of being fast.

I don't want a debate, so I wont reply to any other posts in one.

[Reikken]

I wasn't making a point about Whispers. >_<

I haven't played Hard mode yet, so I'm talking normal mode. That's allowed, correct? On hard mode, I imagine Haar would be among the top 3 characters in the game, right up there with Ike and Reyson.

NM doesn't make him any worse, just others better.

And nah, his spd hurts him earlier in the game, where you can't be spamming brave weapons. Not top 3, but fairly close.

And mobility matters a lot, especially on 4-4 and 4-5. Killing spirits before they can attack you > having high res. Canto to move out of the way so someone else can make use of that ___ Tide for attacking the boss in addition to you using it is also very helpful.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Reikken

[Dr. Tarrasque]

1. Who the hell uses Whispers? They blow.

2. Nolan and Jill are basically the ONLY units who deal with weight. Axes are by no means lightweight, since they're the heaviest weapon. And Jill has to deal with it for quite a while, which screws over the point of being fast.

I don't want a debate, so I wont reply to any other posts in one.

They're lightweight since people can grow STR to use them without speed loss. Also, If I recall correctly, Reiken mentioned that you can forge an Iron axe to have the same power as a Steel Axe and that it'd still be cheaper. There's probably no1 who loses speed while holding an Iron axe so the whole "Axes are heavy" argument is just stupid.

[Destiny Hero]

Okay, I made this thread, and this isn't making me want to play this game in any way, so any more debating is spam since it has nothing to do with the topic.

[Lord Raven]

I wasn't making a point about Whispers. >_<

You were making a point about their strength being only 10 higher than Whispers. Which is a stupid point, considering the difference in weapons.

Axes are by no means lightweight

The point was more centric about how weight's pretty much irrelevant for physical units (aside from chars from Part 1).

And Jill has to deal with it for quite a while, which screws over the point of being fast.

Jill's plenty fast with an Iron Axe, though, and her Strength isn't bad.

EDIT: So yeah, I kinda posted at almost the same time as the guy before me.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Lord Raven

[_____]

Okay, I made this thread, and this isn't making me want to play this game in any way, so any more debating is spam since it has nothing to do with the topic.

Wait, you spammed your own thread?

1.) YOU started this conversation.

2.) This isn't even CLOSE to debating. This is discussion. It's a massacre.

[Florete]

You were making a point about their strength being only 10 higher than Whispers. Which is a stupid point, considering the difference in weapons.

*facepalm*

He said Haar had 10 more strength than characters like Nephenee at endgame. That's an overexaggeration. Nephenee is not like Whispers.

[Lord Raven]

He has a good 8-10 point lead in Strength in the endgame (with respect to Nephenee), though (look at their averages). And stronger weapons too.

Wishblade/Urvan comparison only matters from like... Chapter F-3 onwards. When you actually have both at the same time; Haar has the Urvan for long anyway if you're going that route. Other than that, Haar's weapons are cheaper and much stronger.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Lord Raven

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Okay, I made this thread, and this isn't making me want to play this game in any way, so any more debating is spam since it has nothing to do with the topic.

There is no debate, you're just quick to dismissing people disagreeing with you as a debate. It's because you fail to accept when you're wrong that many of your threads end up with these so called debates. Closing threads like these doesn't help either since nothing gets resolved and the cycle WILL repeat in future topics.

[_____]

And Haar should use the Brave Axe, not Urvan.

[Destiny Hero]

Starting now. Stop turning this thread into a debate war.

[Lord Raven]

And Haar should use the Brave Axe, not Urvan.

Thanks for magnifying my point. Edited November 15, 2008 by Lord Raven

[_____]

Starting now. Stop turning this thread into a debate war.

Yes, just ignore everything everyone said. :/

Thanks for magnifying my point.

Not a problem.

[Florete]

He has a good 8-10 point lead in Strength in the endgame (with respect to Nephenee), though (look at their averages). And stronger weapons too.

Wishblade/Urvan comparison only matters from like... Chapter F-3 onwards. When you actually have both at the same time; Haar has the Urvan for long anyway if you're going that route. Other than that, Haar's weapons are cheaper and much stronger.

Price hardly matters at this point. BEXP throws averages out the window and Nephenee doubles and dodges more often. I don't know if you're talking hard mode or not, but that's not what I'm discussing because I haven't been there. Like I said, I imagine Haar would be among the very best units in hard mode throughout the entire game. I normal, however, I find it easy to reach near all of my caps with clever use of BEXP, and some of this happening by 4-E-1.

[_____]

Destiny Hero, I would dearly appreciate if you would STOP TALKING.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Okay, the thread's getting deleted.

You sound just like my brother, always wants to end a conversation when he's wrong and never admits to it.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Boo

[Hanz]

Closed by request.