Who shouldn't belong in the 5* summoning pool?

[Dayni]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Distant Counter is worth way more than Close Counter though. Most two range units are pretty enemy phase focused in their stat line while a lot of melee units are either player phase or enemy phased focused. There's tonnes of characters I wish I could give Distant Counter to, but I have two Takumi's that I never use and haven't canabelized simply because there's no decent character wanting for Close Counter over other A skills. Not saying it's a good skill, there's definitely units it works on (Jacob, Christmas Thraja to name two), there's just a lot more units that would benefit from Distant Counter being more available than Close Counter.

True true, I doubt Hector's ever going to drop in reality, 20k feathers is easier to get these days after all.

[MacLovin]

Lumi swears by CC Merged Sophia.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Joe Cool said:

Lumi swears by CC Merged Sophia.

That doesn't change the fact that for every Sophia, Henry, Boey, etc. that wants Close Counter, there are four or five (probably more, actually) melee units that want Distant Counter.

[Landmaster]

M!Morgan so I can have my fxxking son

[MacLovin]

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't change the fact that for every Sophia, Henry, Boey, etc. that wants Close Counter, there are four or five (probably more, actually) melee units that want Distant Counter.

yes

not to mention that there's a lot more viable DC contenders. (Hell even Bartre or Hawkeye) than CC( Micaiah? Sanaki? Fuck no)

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

That doesn't change the fact that for every Sophia, Henry, Boey, etc. that wants Close Counter, there are four or five (probably more, actually) melee units that want Distant Counter.

not to mention that CC does basicly nothing when baiting Dragons for those units.... so yeah Close Counter should drop to the 4 Star pool

[Garlyle]

10 hours ago, Landmaster said:

M!Morgan so I can have my fxxking son

He's also 4*. Also I don't think this is a good enough reason to demote him even further. =)

[Landmaster]

9 hours ago, Garlyle said:

He's also 4*. Also I don't think this is a good enough reason to demote him even further. =)

I do >:( I can barely get my husband or my son

[bottlegnomes]

Yeah, I feel like 4* doesn't really mean shit anymore. I've still yet to get a Sothe.

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Yeah, I feel like 4* doesn't really mean shit anymore. I've still yet to get a Sothe.

The probability of pulling any one specific 4-star character is lower than the probability of pulling any one specific focus 5-star character due to the sheer number of characters in the 4-star pool.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Yeah, I feel like 4* doesn't really mean shit anymore. I've still yet to get a Sothe.

I spent like a hundred orbs trying to get Sothe on his recent focus only to draw him as a four star regular XD Really torn wether I should spent another twenty orbs to try and make use of the big pity rate I still have because of that.

[Roflolxp54]

Note: my list only focuses on units that are available in the regular pool and are 5*-locked.

Red:
Lyn: She doesn't offer anything in skill inheritance that isn't already offered by a more available unit (ie. Spur Spd is on Marth; Galeforce is on Cordelia; Defiant Atk is on A!Tiki). And I want to +10 her more easily. Popularity is also no excuse at this point when there are iconic/popular characters in the 3-4* pool (ie. Marth, Eirika, Chrom, Roy, Camilla, Tharja, Cordelia, etc.).
Luke: Ares is just too good and Luke not being 5*-locked can make Panic Ploy and Fire Boost easier to get. He also has a hard time standing out among sword cavaliers.
Saber: He's outclassed by the more popular sword units such as Mia, Ayra, and Karla and struggles to stand out as players could easily choose sword units that have greater availability such as Eirika, Fir, Marth, or Roy.
Gray: BST is no excuse to being 5*-locked when Soleil is available at 4*. Wind Boost also doesn't see much usage and Sword Valor is fairly meh when there are 2 other Sword Valor units and tons of sword units.
Eldigan: offers little value in SI and many players considered him outclassed by his own son, who is 4* available.
Karel: just what is he doing being 5*-locked? Wo Dao has been obtainable from Athena and his niece can get the same Prf weapon he can get. Both Athena and Fir are 3-4* available.
Leo: His Prf weapon is garbage before refinement and his refined Prf is pretty situational. His statline is also pretty awkward. Popularity is also no excuse.

Blue:
Ephraim: poor SI-value nowadays. Popularity is no excuse. Is infantry so he doesn't stand out too well. And I hate getting him as a pitybreaker.
Hinoka: Hone Fliers being 5*-locked because of being too powerful is an extremely outdated excuse at this point when there are plenty of gamebreakers such as Death Blow 4, Bold Fighter, etc. Popularity is also no excuse.
Tana: Vidofnir is garbage at this point due to the existence of refined generic weapons. Guidance exists as a seal, reducing her SI value.
Olwen: poor SI-value. Outclassed by her more available older brother. And already competes with Ursula and L'Arachel for Blarblade+ cavalry mage role.

Green:
Rhajat: Distant Defense is available as a seal and there are plenty of other viable A-slot choices. Also would be nice to see an Atk-boosting dual Rally be more available. And Nino and Soren are just so good.
Sonya: Mirror Strike is very situational and is on a F2P unit (Oliver). Res Ploy is available as a seal. And Dark Excalibur is obtainable on Merric, a 3-4* available unit. And Nino and Soren are just so good.

Colorless:
Mist: has no SI-value (Spur Def/Res is available on M!Morgan, Recover is on Serra, Slow is on Wrys). Why is she still 5*-locked?
Elise: no SI-value (Gravity is available on Lissa, Live to Serve is on Wrys, Recover is on Serra). Popularity is no excuse. She also got offensively powercreeped by Maribelle and Veronica and competes with Nanna.

[D4rthNoctis]

Red - Gray, Karel, Luke, Saber, Leo, Young Tiki & Male Morgan.

Blue - Olwen, L'Arachel & Tailtiu.

Green - Libra, Minerva, Julia & Sonya

Colourless - OG.Takumi***, Jaffar, Legault, Mist.

Ares, Eldigan, Nanna & Sothe are candidates as well, but I'm fine with them staying as 5* tbh.

-----

NOTE: Karel, Luke, Saber, Leo, Tailtiu & Mist do offer good fodder at 5*.

***As Close Counter is a premium skill, I don't see this happening. That aside, he should be 3-4* really.

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Luke: Ares is just too good and Luke not being 5*-locked can make Panic Ploy and Fire Boost easier to get. He also has a hard time standing out among sword cavaliers.

Keeping Panic Ploy as a 5-star exclusive is enough of a reason to leave Luke in the 5-star pool.

 

5 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Saber: He's outclassed by the more popular sword units such as Mia, Ayra, and Karla and struggles to stand out as players could easily choose sword units that have greater availability such as Eirika, Fir, Marth, or Roy.

Saber is currently the only source of Slaying Edge+, which forces players to use the weapon refinery to get the skill in any reasonable quantity.

 

5 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Gray: BST is no excuse to being 5*-locked when Soleil is available at 4*. Wind Boost also doesn't see much usage and Sword Valor is fairly meh when there are 2 other Sword Valor units and tons of sword units.

Zanbato+.

 

5 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Rhajat: Distant Defense is available as a seal and there are plenty of other viable A-slot choices. Also would be nice to see an Atk-boosting dual Rally be more available. And Nino and Soren are just so good.
Sonya: Mirror Strike is very situational and is on a F2P unit (Oliver). Res Ploy is available as a seal. And Dark Excalibur is obtainable on Merric, a 3-4* available unit. And Nino and Soren are just so good.

Skills being available as Sacred Seals is not a good enough reason to drop a character that has the skill if the skill has a good enough reason to be used multiple times on a single team or a single unit.

All Ploy skills have a good enough argument to be valuable to be used on a multiple units at a time, and Distant Def is the most commonly stacked skill in build discussion.

[Hilda]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Keeping Panic Ploy as a 5-star exclusive is enough of a reason to leave Luke in the 5-star pool.

 

Saber is currently the only source of Slaying Edge+, which forces players to use the weapon refinery to get the skill in any reasonable quantity.

 

Zanbato+.

 

Skills being available as Sacred Seals is not a good enough reason to drop a character that has the skill if the skill has a good enough reason to be used multiple times on a single team or a single unit.

All Ploy skills have a good enough argument to be valuable to be used on a multiple units at a time, and Distant Def is the most commonly stacked skill in build discussion.

not to play devils advocate, but Panic Ploy is kinda not in that high demand (because you usally only run 1 person with the seal and another with inheritance at TOP) especially with the seal and it comgin from Valter, so Luke can definitly drop into the 5 Star pool

Saber Slaying Edge+ Source still means the person needs to pump out 20k feathers or use the refinery twice, so thats all good, all it does is bypass one mini step, no excuse to stay in 5 Star

Gray: Horse emblem time has died, and so has the use of Zanbato+, i havent encountered any Zanbato or horse killer weapon since months. No reason for him to stay in the 5 Star pool

not to bust here, but Distand def and close def kinda got a bit outdated with bracing stance 2. Granted it is 2 less on both spectrums, but it works against ranged and melee units so its overall more well rounded. So no really no reason for Distant def and close def ot stay in the 5 Star pool

[Ice Dragon]

11 minutes ago, Hilda said:

not to play devils advocate, but Panic Ploy is kinda not in that high demand (because you usally only run 1 person with the seal and another with inheritance at TOP) especially with the seal and it comgin from Valter, so Luke can definitly drop into the 5 Star pool

What leaving Panic Ploy as a 5-star exclusive does is increase the value of Zelgius. If you want Panic Ploy and you aren't willing to sacrifice any limited characters, you need to pull for one of Luke or Zelgius.

And if you pull a Zelgius instead of a Luke, there's still the fact that giving up Zelgius for a skill competes with merging him. The opportunity cost of using Zelgius for any of his uses is greater when he has more exclusive or nearly exclusive options that he can be used for (because there is a higher probability that one of those options is of high worth to the player).

 

14 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Saber Slaying Edge+ Source still means the person needs to pump out 20k feathers or use the refinery twice, so thats all good, all it does is bypass one mini step, no excuse to stay in 5 Star

The weapon refinery uses a strictly limited resource, whereas feathers are significantly less limited.

Make no mistake that I want all of the Slaying weapons available from 4-star pulls, but I simply can't see it happening in the near future because Slaying weapons are the easiest way to drain the player of gold rocks. Slaying Bow and Barb Shuriken both make sense to be 4-star pulls simply because they are far less valuable than their melee counterparts (bulky colorless ranged units are far harder to come by than bulky colored melee units).

 

15 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Gray: Horse emblem time has died, and so has the use of Zanbato+, i havent encountered any Zanbato or horse killer weapon since months. No reason for him to stay in the 5 Star pool

Cavalry are still popular in the more diverse score ranges of the Arena. Players with high-scoring defense teams are almost always going to prefer to use armor-effective weapons instead of cavalry-effective weapons in order to have an easier time of getting defense wins.

Zanbato is still valuable below that point. It might not be in high demand, but it's still valuable.

 

18 minutes ago, Hilda said:

not to bust here, but Distand def and close def kinda got a bit outdated with bracing stance 2. Granted it is 2 less on both spectrums, but it works against ranged and melee units so its overall more well rounded. So no really no reason for Distant def and close def ot stay in the 5 Star pool

No, Bracing Stance does not at all replace Distant Def or Close Def. Giving up 2 Def and 2 Res against match-ups a character is built for to gain 4 Def and 4 Res against match-ups a character has no business dealing with is not a good trade.

Lukas, for example, usually has no business dealing with most ranged units and therefore should be running Close Def, Steady Breath, or Warding Breath, not Bracing Stance. Any Lukas that does have business dealing with ranged units is running Distant Counter, which prevents the player from using Bracing Stance regardless.

[Garlyle]

Actually I think it would be nice if players can access effective-against weapons easily, so even players who are new to the game can have some kind of counters against strong teams. Zanbato shouldn't be bad if accessible from the 3 star pool.

I'm a bit unsure about the demotion of units with Close Def and Distant Def. I'm finding myself using those 2 seals all the time to complete some PvE challenges. That is why I believe it would be a high demand for other people. But it probably wouldn't be a big issue, because the matching counter skills are also A slot skills, so they might not be a threat for the meta in the Arena.

No idea about Panic Ploy, I don't really need that skill to be honest. It's annoying when AI uses it on challenge maps though.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Red: Eldigan, Gray, Regular Ike, Karel, Katarina, Leo, Luke, Regular Lyn, Saber, Sanaki, Young Tiki

Blue: Delthea, Regular Ephraim, Regular Hinoka, Linde, Morgan, Olwen, Sumia, Tana

Green: Deirdre, Kana, Minerva, Rhajat, Sonya

Colorless: Faye, Jaffar, Mist

[Humanoid]

Ridersbane is available at 3* anyway.

[Usana]

I tend to agree with those listing Gray and Saber as a drop down option. Their weapons are the biggest argument against them dropping and I just don't find that super convincing given how unappealing the units are. But I also tend to think of things in terms of who would I hate to get as a pity breaker. As such I don't actually mind Karel or think he should drop. He is no where near as disappointing as Gray and Saber whose only worth are for their weapons as SI. Well I guess Saber also has HP/SPD and Shield Pulse. And honestly I would likely SI him for those rather than Slaying which I can easily get from refine chains.

Luke is another odd 5* lock. Just make Panic learned at 5* and I don't think panic would become too oppressive. That said as it is I am really hoping not to pull a Luke. I might just cry if I get him as a pity breaker.

 

So lets see. Maybes are those who I would like to see or would understand if dropped for one reason or another, but who I would not be rage-quiting levels of upset if they turned up as a pity breaker.

RED- Gray, Saber, Luke, Leo, Regular Ike
     Maybe - Eldigan, Regular Lyn, Katarina

Blue- Olwen
     Maybe - Regular Hinoka

Green- Sonya
     Maybe - Amelia, Minerva, Julia

Colorless- Mist, Jaffar
     Maybe - Takumi, Faye

For the most part I am happy with the pools, other than RED. Red is just uggh.

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Zanbato is still valuable below that point. It might not be in high demand, but it's still valuable.

I personally do not see the value though. If the player has a color balanced team, melee ponies are pretty easy to kill and are not very threatening, so I think more generic offensive Weapons like Wos and Slayings are better.

3 hours ago, Garlyle said:

Actually I think it would be nice if players can access effective-against weapons easily, so even players who are new to the game can have some kind of counters against strong teams. Zanbato shouldn't be bad if accessible from the 3 star pool.

Armorslayers, Heavy Spears, and Hammers are all widely available. On the other hand, anti cavalry melee Weapons are not very useful since melee ponies do not have busted stats and lack threatening skills. If you have problems with ranged ponies, regular Res tanks and Raven mages are better for that than melee units with anti pony Weapons in my opinion.

I think Grey should be dropped, but not because Zanbato is that useful.

Edited August 25, 2018 by XRay

[bottlegnomes]

Yeah, as someone who runs a horse team in that lower score range (18.5), I can't say that Zanbatos are all that common, or even much of a threat. Maybe if they were more common, they might show up more since Gray has at least decent stats, unlike Mathilda, but I barely ever see Ridersbanes or Gerome/Poleax and he has pretty solid stats.

[Garlyle]

I had some spare time, so I checked how many dislikes the 5* pool got. I also added my own vote for this.

Red - I'm surprised by Saber, but the rest is self explanatory I guess.
Saber    13
Gray    12
Leo    12
Luke    12
Eldigan    11
Karel    10
Katarina    8
Lyn    7
Sanaki    7
Ike    6
Tiki    6
Lucina    5
Alm    2
Lene    2
Ryoma    2
Brave Roy    1
Celica    1
Chrom    1

Blue - There are some good picks here too
Hinoka    12
Ephraim    8
Azura    7
Linde    6
Tana    6
Lute    4
F!Morgan    4
Ninian    4
Delthea    3
Shiro    3
Sumia    3
Brave Lucina    1

Green - The choices here look obvious I guess.
Olwen    12
Sonya    12
Julia    8
Minerva    8
Rhajat    5
Amelia    3
Deirdre    2
Kana    2
Dorcas    1

Colorless - Mist is clearly the least desired pitybreaker. What is she doing in 5* again? Funny that current banner has focus on Faye. 
Mist    14
Jaffar    10
Faye    9
Elise    6
Takumi    5
Innes    4
Genny    1
 

[Cute Chao]

14 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

 

Green - The choices here look obvious I guess.
Olwen    12

 

Interesting list, although I think the Olwen people are voting to drop down is the blue one, not the green one, since most people's reasonings seem to be that Reinhardt is stronger :)

 

I think there are a fair few people I would happily see drop down, but I will always hate the idea of Faye doing so. Firesweep weapons are annoying enough, but that stupid bow is the worst >.<

Sumia shouldn't have been kept at 5*, in my opinion. The only reason they did so was popularity. I agree with several of the higher voted people on the list, too.

[Jingle Jangle]

For me, most of the 1 gen characters should drop down in rarity excluding the likes of Hector and cyl 1 units. Since majority of them lost their initial shine. Plus it opens up more experimentation in common units.