Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Don't believe me? I just tested it mysel

nah i do. As i said i didn't know if it reduces the hit or removes support bonuses. I thought the former because the hit loss wasn't just 10% i last tested iirc

 

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Hmm, my expectations are a bit higher than most, but reused assets feels like they take the easy way out. I dunno, maybe thats just me.

Easy =/= bad.

Atelier reuses assets all the time but Atelier Ryza 2 is like the third best game I've played this year (and currently the best 2021 game I've played).

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

A big part of that is the game was given an impossible deadline (1 year as opposed to the 4ish years that Ocarina of Time took) to get this out as part of a famous bet/challenge, and the reused assets were one of the ways they made that possible. I know I have posted this video here before, but the creation of MM is an interesting story

I think he was talking about 3H's DLC, not Majora's Mask.

7 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

Speaking of Zelda, I'd love more than anything to have a Zelda game with combat-focused dungeons.

Like, fight different kinds and groups of enemies using a more complex, well-developed combat system until you reach a mini-boss.

Get that dungeon's unique item, and be forced to make use of that throughout the rest of the combat scenarios in the dungeon, boss included.

I just get tired of dungeons slowing things to a crawl and killing the pace.

That's why I liked BotW keeping them short and bite-sized, so to speak.

Actually, BotW Hyrule Castle came very close to that. Do that again, Nintendo, but for every dungeon in a new Zelda game.

Well there's this neat little game called CrossCode that's available on every current platform.

[Lightcosmo]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wouldn't say that. Future Connected is working with XC1 as a base, a base which it chose not to deviate too much from it. Torna is adapting XC2, which makes a sizable difference.

I'd probably deduct Awakening Wave 1's Einherjar DLC, each reusing the same map three times, albeit with ally-enemy relocation I admit. Basically no story and hardly any significant character interactions to speak of. Lost Bloodlines might be worth it for Paragon, or Smash Brethren for Iote's Shield (eh, fliers are better as Pair Up backpacks in Awakening), but All Stats +2 is rather weak unless you have nothing better early on, and Limit Breaker shouldn't exist, more grind isn't fun and only remotely necessary for the Grandmaster-Apo stuff.

NotReyn and NotSharla would like to disagree. Not to mention the fact that they reused the battle voices from the base game, when they should have redone them since they had the VA's to do so. It just sounds awful (moreso in Melia's case than Shulk's) Also, they could update the game at any time.

Those were like $3 though? Even if something isn't worth it from a balance PoV (cause your expecting way to much from them there tbh)

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

A big part of that is the game was given an impossible deadline (1 year as opposed to the 4ish years that Ocarina of Time took) to get this out as part of a famous bet/challenge, and the reused assets were one of the ways they made that possible. I know I have posted this video here before, but the creation of MM is an interesting story

I was more saying that about nowaday games, actually. since space and such isn't really an issue since updates exist as well, they have little to no excuses.

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Lightcosmo, the words that you have said please me. I beseech you to elaborate.

Eh? Your going to have to elaborate on what you want me to elaborate.

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Easy =/= bad.

Atelier reuses assets all the time but Atelier Ryza 2 is like the third best game I've played this year (and currently the best 2021 game I've played).

If it's anything i see people complain about around here, it's when FE games reuse maps. I would say that fits right in with what i'm saying.

[Codename Shrimp]

For Myrmidons these 2 sure have muscles

[Codename Shrimp]

1 minute ago, lightcosmo said:

If it's anything i see people complain about around here, it's when FE games reuse maps.

there's a difference between resuing assets that doesn't mean anything to gameplay and resuing the same gameplay

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

there's a difference between resuing assets that doesn't mean anything to gameplay and resuing the same gameplay

ummm.....

2 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

NotReyn and NotSharla would like to disagree.

 

[Codename Shrimp]

ah you were talking about FC

[Armagon]

13 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

NotReyn and NotSharla would like to disagree.

Yeah that was pretty lame but it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

15 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

was more saying that about nowaday games, actually. since space and such isn't really an issue since updates exist as well, they have little to no excuses.

The excuse is do the devs have the time to keep updating the game? Because the answer isn't always yes.

Space is also an issue, maybe not on Switch, but definitely on other consoles. There's a reason why Xbox and Playstation always have to do "first time installations" for any game you buy.

17 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

If it's anything i see people complain about around here, it's when FE games reuse maps. I would say that fits right in with what i'm saying.

That's a completely different scenario. I'm talking about the assets themselves being reused, which is a common thing in game dev.

[Lightcosmo]

10 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

ah you were talking about FC

Yeah, in which case, my argument is totally true. There is little good reason for how they reused most that stuff. Now Shulk and Melia? They should have their original arts, but they really should have added more with them. What? They didn't learn anything or grow at all? That sounds silly.

Also, Shulk doesn't even have Monado Enchant in FC, and before the comment "but it would be pointless!" comes up, then they could also explain to me why he can use Monado Buster, which technically is equally as pointless.

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I just don't get how she's supposed to be a Niles killer. She doesn't have his outlaw utility or capture. They can co-exist just fine. Shura is more of a Niles killer, and even he doesn't have Capture, which is pretty huge if you know which generics to grab.

Yeah, utility is difficult to compare to combat, and I kinda agree that his utility can be a lot more useful (although it really depends on play style, and willingness to use the capture mechanics), but she will massively outclass him as a combat unit (...eventually).

 

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

In Lunatic you need to save your feezes for later on.

Did you have some specific uses in mind later on, or is this just that you find them more useful later in a general sense? A use or two to recruit Haitaka sounds like a good trade to me given the number of freeze uses you get.

 

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

No i want him to be of some use, and utility wise ecen others like Kaze and Shura have him beat. Only thing going for him is capture

The Kaze comparison always baffles me, as he deals significantly less damage than Niles does, for utility that is worse than Nile's (although Kaze has more immediate short term payoffs as opposed to Nile's large long-term payoffs I suppose), while Shura has the problem of missing out on those early Shura skin boots if you use him ...

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Armagon said:

Yeah that was pretty lame but it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

The excuse is do the devs have the time to keep updating the game? Because the answer isn't always yes.

Space is also an issue, maybe not on Switch, but definitely on other consoles. There's a reason why Xbox and Playstation always have to do "first time installations" for any game you buy.

That's a completely different scenario. I'm talking about the assets themselves being reused, which is a common thing in game dev.

Pretty Lame? It killed alot of the exitement of learning new things about a character for me (gameplay wise obviously)

It is kinda their job to please the fans.

Really? PS4 can't really say that they were locked because of space issues. Most of their games are what? 40GB+ average?

I guess so.

[Codename Shrimp]

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Did you have some specific uses in mind later on, or is this just that you find them more useful later in a general sense?

Bert's Paralogue, Takumi's fun castle needs like a full staff (Hinata has like 70 avo before throne iirc), Bosses on Thrones in general later on, Ryoma's map if you do it legit needs a full one as well and finale if you don't rescue skip.

Those + 1 freeze on ice map add up nicely to all freezes you get.

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

s he deals significantly less damage than Niles does

Kaze's usually deals more with me even though he uses much weaker weapons. Also his debuffs are super useful and having WTA over mages helps alot

Edited August 21, 2021 by Shrimperor

[Armagon]

12 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

What? They didn't learn anything or grow at all? That sounds silly.

I mean, it takes place a year after and they weren't fighting anything so why would they have new stuff?

12 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Also, Shulk doesn't even have Monado Enchant in FC, and before the comment "but it would be pointless!" comes up, then they could also explain to me why he can use Monado Buster, which technically is equally as pointless.

Because one is an attack and the other one exists only so that other people can damage a specific type of enemy.

9 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

It is kinda their job to please the fans.

Not at their own expense. TLOU2 devs were basically held hostage to "please the fans".

9 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Really? PS4 can't really say that they were locked because of space issues. Most of their games are what? 40GB+ average?

The way it works is that the PS4 copies the data from the disc to the system. Eventually, that space is gonna run out so you'd need either an external drive or uninstall some games to make room for new ones.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Armagon

[Saint Rubenio]

33 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Eh? Your going to have to elaborate on what you want me to elaborate.

FC bad is an opinion that I can get behind. Yet you said Torna good. What is this Torna you speak of?

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Armagon said:

I mean, it takes place a year after and they weren't fighting anything so why would they have new stuff?

Because one is an attack and the other one exists only so that other people can damage a specific type of enemy.

Not at their own expense. TLOU2 devs were basically held hostage to "please the fans".

The way it works is that the PS4 copies the data from the disc to the system. Eventually, that space is gonna run out so you'd need either an external drive or uninstall some games to make room for new ones.

If that were the case wouldn't rust start to show?

So what? Enchant just ceases to exist like it was never there, i guess.

That's a far cry from "just fix or change some things" really. Example: Torna completely changed the entire Menu design/layout. Now you could say "they could have reused it" after all, they had no real reason to change the backdrop of the menu screen. Does it breath new life into it though? Hell yes.

That doesn't really change that it can handle something that big, though. Space issues are on the person, though?

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Saint Rubenio said:

FC bad is an opinion that I can get behind. Yet you said Torna good. What is this Torna you speak of?

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 prequel. lmao.

[Codename Shrimp]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

FC bad is an opinion that I can get behind. Yet you said Torna good. What is this Torna you speak of?

btw FC here is future connected and not Trails in the Sky 😛

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

FC bad is an opinion that I can get behind. Yet you said Torna good. What is this Torna you speak of?

Haha FC in this case is referring to Future Connected, the Xenoblade 1 epilogue, and not Trails.

2 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

If that were the case wouldn't rust start to show?

Why would there be rust?

3 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

So what? Enchant just ceases to exist like it was never there, i guess.

I mean, yeah.

4 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

That's a far cry from "just fix or change some things" really.

Which isn't as simple as you make it sound. And most of the fixes would just be some QoL or bug fixes. Not "change this aspect of the game that I didn't like".

Reused assets is not something an update would "fix".

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Why would there be rust?

I mean, yeah.

Which isn't as simple as you make it sound. And most of the fixes would just be some QoL or bug fixes. Not "change this aspect of the game that I didn't like".

Reused assets is not something an update would "fix".

After not fighting for a while, you would need to get back into the swing of things i'd think.

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Shulk's mind just blocked out Enchant for... reasons, i guess.

Well... i never said the methods were simple, the ideas behind them are. Adding new arts isn't a difficult task really. doing the art (ha, see what i did there?) for them might take some time, but it shouldn't be like a month's worth of time for 1 attack i think.

[Saint Rubenio]

8 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

btw FC here is future connected and not Trails in the Sky 😛

 

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Haha FC in this case is referring to Future Connected, the Xenoblade 1 epilogue, and not Trails.

...well. How irksome.

Why are all of these anime JRPGs named the same, anyway? Valkyria Profile, Valkyria Chronicles, Xenoblade Chronicles, Xenogears, Tales, Trails, FC and friggin' FC...

[Lightcosmo]

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

...well. How irksome.

Why are all of these anime JRPGs named the same, anyway? Valkyria Profile, Valkyria Chronicles, Xenoblade Chronicles, Xenogears, Tales, Trails, FC and friggin' FC...

I am SO sorry about the confusion there, Ruben! XD

[Armagon]

6 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

After not fighting for a while, you would need to get back into the swing of things i'd think.

It's anime, characters don't get rusty lol.

6 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Shulk's mind just blocked out Enchant for... reasons, i guess.

The Mechon are literally extinct. There is no more. Enchant is literally useless.

8 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Adding new arts isn't a difficult task really. doing the art (ha, see what i did there?) for them might take some time, but it shouldn't be like a month's worth of time for 1 attack i think.

Sure, but just because they didn't doesn't really say anything about the quality.

Besides, FC is like 5 hours long, I'm fine with the characters just having the same Arts from the main game.

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Why are all of these anime JRPGs named the same, anyway? Valkyria Profile, Valkyria Chronicles, Xenoblade Chronicles, Xenogears, Tales, Trails, FC and friggin' FC...

Because it sounds neat.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

The Cipher characters being $6 for four characters seems reasonable in comparison, even though I never got them.

The two maps you have to complete to recruit them are reused, but the characters themselves are fairly good. Shade is more Rescue and Physic, never a bad thing. Randal is a offensively solid if unlucky Paladin, useful for either lord. Emma could use better bases for coming promoted, but ought to be able contribute to contribute to Celica's terrain-heavy maps at least. Yuzu is a fragile Priestess with a terrible list (why no Excalibur when she's supposed to be a sword girl?), but if she gets close enough to attack something, she does have good offense.

And, they're all obtainable easily early into Act 3 (it'll be slightly tough at the end of Act 1/2), for good enough availability. Emma's Trainee's Lance provides a cool triple consecutive attack Combat Art too that anyone can use. I don't regret buying them. 

 

56 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

For Myrmidons these 2 sure have muscles

*Checks Hinata BR base stats*

Comes at level 10 with 26 HP, 11 Str, 9 Skl. Did he proc 5 and 4 Str and 4 Skl in 3 levels?

 

57 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

NotReyn and NotSharla would like to disagree.

Models and VAs aside, which I recognize as costs, they aren't deviations at all in the gameplay at least. 

 

9 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Xenoblade Chronicles, Xenogears,

Intentional. Tetsuya Takahashi lost the rights to the Xenogears name when he left Square, because "company own the rights" in the video game world. Thus, Takahashi swapped to "Xenosaga" at Namco with the founding of Monolith Soft, continuing with ideas he would've considered for a Xenogears franchise had he still the license. When Monolith got bought up by Nintendo, the rights to Xenosaga stayed with Namco, and Monado: The Beginning of the World later got renamed "Xenoblade" because Xenogears and Xenosaga were Takahashi's and Monolith's most notable titles, plus the game shares a few thematic touches in common with the prior Xeno games.

So, licensing. A Kaga Saga situation basically.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[Codename Shrimp]

 

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Comes at level 10 with 26 HP, 11 Str, 9 Skl. Did he proc 5 and 4 Str and 4 Skl in 3 levels?

 

he came at lvl 5 with like 8-9 str or so iirc. He is odin's replacement in the hack.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Shrimperor

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Besides, FC is like 5 hours long, I'm fine with the characters just having the same Arts from the main game.

I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree there, really.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Models and VAs aside, which I recognize as costs, they aren't deviations at all in the gameplay at least. 

The story is hardly there, the gameplay is pretty much a 1:1 of the original, where exactly is the thrill?