Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Lightcosmo]

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Imma be honest Cosmo, i don't think there's a single RPG out there that is honset-to-God balanced. They all have their super dumb shit because of the nature of numbers, some more than others. And this goes both ways, games can be unbalanced towards the player rather than for them.

Not all RPG's are a long standing series like Trails, though. How many times can one make the same stupid mistake before they realise "hey, this is a problem and i should probably look into it?"

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

For Trails? Bro speed is broken in any game. Like any game. Literally pick a game, speed is very important.

 in Trails case, it determines turns, and how fast arts get cast as well. And where is the negative to accompany this positive? See imo this should actually have a negative, i mean how far is CS IV into the series and they still don't realise this?

[BrightBow]

4 hours ago, Benice said:

Does this mean that you spoiled yourself, or that nothing's more important than the How to Train your Dominatrix substory?

Don't worry, LAD has a Dominatrix substory as well! And it's actually kinda wholesome, in a degenerate way.

How can there be a Dominatrix substory? If anything, it would be a Dominatrix switchstory.

 

[Sooks]

You know, I will say, going around the town after winning the previous battle, it really feels like I earned my victory as the towns people praise me for keeping destruction to the town to a minimum. I can’t think of any game I’ve ever played that has really made me feel like I earned the MC’s praise.

But now I don’t know what to do for this next decision, ack.

Spoiler

I really just don’t know if can trust House Telliore. Its side stories have portrayed Silvio as more of an opportunist than anything else, so I’m not sure if he has any reason to betray us now that we won. But in his side story right before this chapter, he’s talking about how a Wolffort victory ruined his easy decision and then is like “Wait! Send a bird!” which is suspicious. But if we completely refuse I don’t know what Wolffort will do from here, the game has let me know that it can’t survive an attack from Aesfrost again. In no uncertain terms.

But some other info I’ve gathered is that Silvio’s loyalty to the crown is not great. Which is true, but so long as we remain the more ideal looking side, we should be fine, right? There’s also info about House Telliore not being the strongest in the world, but I really couldn’t care less, baggers can’t be choosers. Then again, Frederica says we shouldn’t side with them, and Frederica is always right except about going to Hyzante.

Aaa…

[Lightcosmo]

My edit of CS IV's Seventh Caliber spell for example of what i mean:

Vanilla CS IV Charge time (left highlighted number) and Delay after casting (right highlighted number)

My change to the spells speeds (lowered from 14 to 19 and 14 to 27 respectively)

For a field wipe spell, imo it should be slow, the devs failed at creating the proper negative on this cause clearly they didn't consider "oh hey, the player can just use cast and esentially cast it right away a few turns in a row!" (Not to mention Golden Bell and Sophia MQ)

This makes it so the player actually has to plan around it's poor speed for the power and effect (+range which is total). 

Edited April 3, 2022 by lightcosmo

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

You know, I will say, going around the town after winning the previous battle, it really feels like I earned my victory as the towns people praise me for keeping destruction to the town to a minimum. I can’t think of any game I’ve ever played that has really made me feel like I earned the MC’s praise.

But now I don’t know what to do for this next decision, ack.

  Reveal hidden contents

I really just don’t know if can trust House Telliore. Its side stories have portrayed Silvio as more of an opportunist than anything else, so I’m not sure if he has any reason to betray us now that we won. But in his side story right before this chapter, he’s talking about how a Wolffort victory ruined his easy decision and then is like “Wait! Send a bird!” which is suspicious. But if we completely refuse I don’t know what Wolffort will do from here, the game has let me know that it can’t survive an attack from Aesfrost again. In no uncertain terms.

But some other info I’ve gathered is that Silvio’s loyalty to the crown is not great. Which is true, but so long as we remain the more ideal looking side, we should be fine, right? There’s also info about House Telliore not being the strongest in the world, but I really couldn’t care less, baggers can’t be choosers. Then again, Frederica says we shouldn’t side with them, and Frederica is always right except about going to Hyzante.

Aaa…

Sounds like you chose the same routes as i did so far!

*high fives*

[null]

 

[BrightBow]

People still make Space Jam mashups in the year 2022 of our Lord Madoka Kaname?

 

[Sooks]

Okay, I know what choice I’m going with.

Spoiler

I’m going to reject Telliore’s proposal. I just can’t trust him, and it seems like the game would heavily penalize me for risking a very obvious knife in the back out of desperation. Plus, as a dialogue option pointed out to me, it is very suspicious that the cunning, cowardly, and self-interested lord openly waltzes to another territory himself in the middle of war time. Almost like he has no fear of being attacked by Aesfrost…

Plus, the fact that he wants us to go to Telliore, with Roland in tow, is incredibly suspicious. Like, if you want to form Ann alliance to protect him, why would you risk transporting him to a territory with less defenses? Should we not ally here instead?

Bad news, it appears I’ve accidentally min-maxed my morality stat. I first noticed this last chapter, when it said everyone “should listen to reason” to persuade them to make the green decision, but if I wanted to persuade them to make the yellow decision, I’d “have better luck talking to a stone wall”. The same thing is happening here, albeit my liberty persuasion messages aren’t quite as negative (and it’s not 100% to convince Frederica to go to morality, if I wanted to). Luckily there are some dialogue options in the town, so I can save scum those and see if the persuasion messages change at all to boost my liberty a bit.

This shouldn’t matter too much because again, it should be really hard to not get the choice you want, but y’know. It helps.

Edit: Huh… interesting. It looks like the locked dialogue options are not always 100% the best ways to persuade someone. Despite using them, I got negative results with Benedict and Anna (the latter of which the game said I the highest change of persuading), and when I reloaded and changed to other dialogue options, I did better. It makes me wonder what the point of having options you have to unlock like that is, then, but I should keep this in mind.

Edit 2: Same thing just happened with Erador, better results using dialogue options I didn’t have to unlock.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sooks

[Elina]

I didn’t know the dialogue choices could affect your stats like that! Now I’m scared… that’s a lot of pressure. 

[Sooks]

Literally six dialogue lines into the next scene: “Hah! Sounds like they saw straight through your stupid plan.”

Yeah guys, you could say I’m the best Triangle Strategy player ever.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sooks

[Lightcosmo]

31 minutes ago, Sooks said:

It makes me wonder what the point of having options you have to unlock like that is, then, but I should keep this in mind.

To make it feel more involved? Sometimes information given to you isnt always accurate or the morally correct choice, this is where beliefs come into play obv. 

I think its fine that way, actually.

[Sooks]

Oh look at that, Ruben’s favorite loli joined.

I… do not see how that event could have led to us deciding to accept an orphaned refugee who is age 10 at the absolute most as a soldier, but these characters events have always been kind of forced. It’s better than the girl who walked from Hyzante all the way to Wolffort because the ministry was racist that one time. That voice acting though.

14 minutes ago, Elina said:

I didn’t know the dialogue choices could affect your stats like that! Now I’m scared… that’s a lot of pressure. 

Well, there’s two kinds of dialogue options: those outside of persuasion and those in persuasion. Outside of persuasion, you’re always presented with three options, one for each trait, and those affect your stats, which primarily seem to affect which characters join. They also have an influence in the persuasion, but due to the way the mechanic is designed, it’s pretty hard to not get what you want (since you only need one vote and, at least so far, there’s always a 50/50 split with one undecided person). Better stats help but it doesn’t seem to be the end of the world?

Someone who’s actually finished the game might know more about this, though.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sooks

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, Armagon said:

For Trails? Bro speed is broken in any game. Like any game. Literally pick a game, speed is very important.

Turn speed in a JRPG/SRPG? Yes, if there is the capacity to double-up on turns. That tends to be overpowering, because whatever flaws the unit has elsewhere are usually outweighed by being able to get that second turn. It doesn't matter if the ultra-fast character is only 80% as strong as the slow character, because 80%x2 > 100%x1.

Speed in an everyone-gets-one-action system where it determines who acts in what order over the course of the one turn? It can be useful, but not domineering.

Speed as in evasion and not related to turn order at all? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Some games simply fail to make dodgetanking viable.

• I tried with Luminous Arc 3 recently, but only Dino can reasonably attempt an evasion build, and it's entirely undermined by Flash Drives and magic spells having 100% accuracy all the time, in addition to there being no way to mitigate the extra accuracy enemies get from being attacking you from the side or the back. 
• Similarly, Etrian Odyssey has tried offering dodgetanking builds for a long time, but like aside from the Phantom Duelist in EOV (which still has flaws), they're rather lacking. I was trying Ninja in EO Nexus, but it wasn't working and probably needs time to take off.
• And, an evasion build in XCX has issues against superbosses, particularly when fighting on foot, since enemies have a minimum 5% hit rate. So eventually, Pharsis the Everqueen will land that OHKO on you.

 

6 hours ago, Benice said:

 

 

The city of Prague of approves.

 

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That certainly does sound like a pretty great character. And out of big silly anime Xenoblade, no less. Interesting.

I do wonder who on the dev team opted to include him. I'd write to Monolith and ask them if Phog was intended to be autistic I could.

Phog is one of two characters I've seen in Japanese video games that would fall under this "neurodiverse" term I've recently discovered. Respectfully referring to those with neurological behaviors that different from the "neurotypical" norm, at least those whose atypical conditions aren't so debilitatingly severe that they stand no chance at all of living independent lives.

The other neurodiverse person I've seen is Jungo Torii from Devil Survivor 2. I wouldn't call him autistic, he doesn't resemble my symptoms closely enough for that. But, what is to be made of a 19-years old chef who can only make one dish- chawanmushi? A boy who, when told to give a stray cat a name that is easy to remember, proposes his own without the slightest pretense of ego? A cat whom he later gives chawanmushi to, despite that not exactly being cat food; just as he offers the dish to a fellow hero as a token of friendship at one point. Jungo is a very gentle giant with a simple mind, and it seems he's actually kinda well-liked by DS2 players from what I've seen. He does have a ginormous Str stat gameplay-wise, but he isn't a musclehead whose brain hurts when you say big words. Nor does he refer to himself in third-person and speak only the simplest of sentences, no caveman-like "Jungo smash! Jungo feel sad.", Jungo's speech is entirely normal. He doesn't feel like he is anime-tropey either, and considering there is a redhead textbook tsundere in the same game, I ought to be able to notice if he was. Jungo is pleasantly, perhaps a little condescendingly b/c of how perfectly sweet he is (knowing myself, we can be pains to deal with sometimes), neurodiverse.

...Have I said too much? I kinda like Jungo.😅 In a "must protect!" kind of way. And he does sorta need protection, considering he can end up in a pool of his own blood dead on the day you meet him.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Elina]

17 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Oh look at that, Ruben’s favorite loli joined.

I… do not see how that event could have led to us deciding to accept an orphaned refugee who is age 10 at the absolute most as a soldier, but these characters events have always been kind of forced. It’s better than the girl who walked from Hyzante all the way to Wolffort because the ministry was racist that one time. That voice acting though.

Well, there’s two kinds of dialogue options: those outside of persuasion and those in persuasion. Outside of persuasion, you’re always presented with three options, one for each trait, and those affect your stats, which primarily seem to affect which characters join. They also have an influence in the persuasion, but due to the way the mechanic is designed, it’s pretty hard to not get what you want (since you only need one vote and, at least so far, there’s always a 50/50 split with one undecided person). Better stats help but it doesn’t seem to be the end of the world?

Someone who’s actually finished the game might know more about this, though.

K thanks. Yeah I just started and I’ve hardly made any decisions yet, so that’s good to know.

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, Elina said:

K thanks. Yeah I just started and I’ve hardly made any decisions yet, so that’s good to know.

Oh, you just started too? Awesome! How far are you? If by “hardly any decisions” you mean story instead of dialogue, what’d you do for the first story decision?

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, Julizan said:

It is great, but still only my second most favorite Dedede theme because this exists:

Dededestroyer Z - Kirby Battle Royale Soundtrack - YouTube

That one's good yes, but it's still pretty fast. Not that it's a bad thing, no Dedede theme is bad, it's just that the rhythm being slower in Roar of Dedede is what really sets it apart.

3 hours ago, Sooks said:

This… is from Kirby? The cute little pink guy?

Yes. Kirby music can go hard when it wants to.

And this is the name of a level from Kirby

No funny pun, no clever name, just......life.

(Side-note: Dragon Kirby is absolutely busted)

2 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

Not all RPG's are a long standing series like Trails, though. How many times can one make the same stupid mistake before they realise "hey, this is a problem and i should probably look into it?"

That depends on whether or not it's seen as a mistake in the first place.

I realize this is a very slippery slope because no one makes a game thinking it'll turn out bad but it's a single player game. "This skill is very good and busted" is not necessarily a mistake. If this were a fighting game, then yeah, this would hold more weight to it.

2 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

in Trails case, it determines turns, and how fast arts get cast as well. And where is the negative to accompany this positive? See imo this should actually have a negative, i mean how far is CS IV into the series and they still don't realise this?

There is no game where being faster would have negative drawbacks. Even "attack is faster but weaker" isn't really a negative imo, since because it's faster it means you can do it more and that small damage will add up.

....ok yeah 200CC in Mario Kart was definitely not tested but you know what i mean.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

My edit of CS IV's Seventh Caliber spell for example of what i mean:

Vanilla CS IV Charge time (left highlighted number) and Delay after casting (right highlighted number)

My change to the spells speeds (lowered from 14 to 19 and 14 to 27 respectively)

For a field wipe spell, imo it should be slow, the devs failed at creating the proper negative on this cause clearly they didn't consider "oh hey, the player can just use cast and esentially cast it right away a few turns in a row!" (Not to mention Golden Bell and Sophia MQ)

I don't think the spell that is designed to be one of the ultimate fuck you spells is a good example of "bad balancing". 

This is like saying Erde Kaiser Sigma is bad balancing in Saga Episode III.

51 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Speed in an everyone-gets-one-action system where it determines who acts in what order over the course of the one turn? It can be useful, but not domineering.

I'd say it depends.

In a traditional turn-based game where the party goes first and then the enemies (P5, for example), it's useful but not domineering. But in ATB (regardless of how it actually works), faster speed is more important.

...I just realized your first statement might've been referring to that.

54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Speed as in evasion and not related to turn order at all? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Some games simply fail to make dodgetanking viable.

That does depend on whether or not speed affects evasion in the first place. Some games yes, some games no.

[BrightBow]

 

[Sooks]

Well, that battle was definitely much easier than the last one. Which is a good thing, I definitely needed a break after it. I think this might be the first battle I won with zero deaths so far, other than maybe some of the first battles which I played in the demo and thus don’t remember as well.

I forgot at the end that the map was kill boss and ended the map a little earlier than I would have liked, because I definitely had room to hang around and kill some more enemies for exp and spoils while still winning.

I don’t understand the point of Picoletta. Like at all. The game says she’s built around offensive items, but I could just use characters who have built in offenses instead of wasting my already semi-limited money for her to be good? She has the unique ability to clone herself, but having two of a useless unit is not very helpful. Sorry Ruben.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

To make it feel more involved?

I guess I just have to be a bit more wary of those from now on.

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Sometimes information given to you isnt always accurate

Wait, what? Game why?

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

or the morally correct choice, this is where beliefs come into play obv.

Well yeah, but the game has given me info for both sides of a choice for every choice so far, so you’ll always have room to work that into whatever you think the morally correct choice is.

[Interdimensional Observer]

48 minutes ago, Armagon said:

But in ATB (regardless of how it actually works), faster speed is more important.

...I just realized your first statement might've been referring to that.

Yeah, I was referring to any turn-based system -JRPG or SRPG- where someone can get more actions than others. It could be ATB;  it could be a non-Fire Emblem SRPG that jumbles up player and enemy turns, without a distinctive player phase and enemy phase. 

Since, again, usually, the faster characters are never weak enough to compensate for getting more actions. A hypothetical fast ninja hitting for 5555 damage when a hypothetical slow knight hits for 9999 isn't so bad when you realize the ninja has 2.5 times the turn speed of the knight. That ninja can deal 5555x2 damage, which is more than 9999x1. And, they have the flexibility to do something else other than damage to that one specific enemy with that second turn. Each turn is also a chance to move, and given the knight might also have lower movement than the ninja, the knight might have to waste some of their fewer turns moving without attacking to get to the same enemies as the ninja.

Though you may find the game disagreeable (which is fine), I will give Berwick Saga credit for having a dynamic turn order, but limiting all units to a single action. I've complained Marcel's 3 move is sluggish, but thank heavens he doesn't also have to deal with Faramir getting 3 actions for every 1 he does. Now that would relegate him to true unusability.

With regards to JRPGs, Final Fantasy -the inventor of ATB- has often had the Haste buff be the most powerful of all. Since increased turn speed is just too good, as turns are damage, turns are healing, turns are buffing. Turns can be turned into anything that brings forth victory, and victory is what matters.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Armagon]

The Kirby Burger.

55 minutes ago, Armagon said:

No funny pun, no clever name, just......life.

You know, when i posted this, i hadn't actually started the level yet. I've just now beaten it and gotten everything there was to find in it

Turns out it's not just the level's name that goes hard. The song goes hard too. Banger desert theme.

(And the stage itself is a grim reminder of what could happen to our seas if we aren't careful).

12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Since, again, usually, the faster characters are never weak enough to compensate for getting more actions.

Pretty much. Even if they are weak defensively, the amount of actions they can get can be enough to mitigate that.

[Sooks]

Ew Gustadolph. Isn’t she like a third of your age? I did not think you could get any eviler, and look at that! You did it! Maybe if you didn’t run a meritocracy, you wouldn’t have done something like this in an attempt to compete with everyone else’s evilness.

And wow, Benedict’s plan is genius. Kinda wish we’d done that to begin with…

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sooks

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

That depends on whether or not it's seen as a mistake in the first place.

I realize this is a very slippery slope because no one makes a game thinking it'll turn out bad but it's a single player game. "This skill is very good and busted" is not necessarily a mistake. If this were a fighting game, then yeah, this would hold more weight to it.

When its SO good that it actually reduces enjoyment, then i would argue that it crossed the line. Trails does this imo.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

There is no game where being faster would have negative drawbacks. Even "attack is faster but weaker" isn't really a negative imo, since because it's faster it means you can do it more and that small damage will add up.

I actually fixed this in CS IV, as in Fie doesnt make up the damage that Crow would do in one hit with two extra turns for example. 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

don't think the spell that is designed to be one of the ultimate fuck you spells is a good example of "bad balancing"

That depends on how much effort is put in to earn it, though. XS does this right with effort vs reward, Trails doesnt.

[Interdimensional Observer]

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/04/save-on-sonic-persona-and-more-in-the-sega-atlus-switch-and-3ds-eshop-spring-sale-north-america

To think these sales are coming to an end. It's been years of constant discounts on this stuff, but soon, the 3DS will be no more. I've long had everything I wanted from them, but still, it's sad.

 

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The Kirby Burger.

Glad to see them referencing the very real Kirby cafe.

9 minutes ago, Armagon said:

(And the stage itself is a grim reminder of what could happen to our seas if we aren't careful).

Play K64: The Crystal Shards (when NSO gets to adding it). Shiver Star's landmasses look identical to Earth's when viewed from space. And given the shopping mall devoid of actual shoppers, fans have claimed Shiver Star is our planet after we got wiped out somehow. Humanity has ceased to be, but our great temples of conspicuous consumption remain.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Play K64: The Crystal Shards (when NSO gets to adding it). Shiver Star's landmasses look identical to Earth's when viewed from space. And given the shopping mall devoid of actual shoppers, fans have claimed Shiver Star is our planet after we got wiped out somehow. Humanity has ceased to be, but our great temples of conspicuous consumption remain.

Certainly...

Still, whatever it was, it wasn't that dire. Or it was so long ago the planet's has recovered somewhat. Since there's still life in it. Trees are green if snowed over.

Also, no word that humanity was wiped out (because then what is Adelaine if not human?). Simply just not living on Earth anymore... maybe.

[Sooks]

Nooo, now there’s a utility decision I actually want to make, and no one will listen to me because I don’t have enough utility. There should be some dialogue in town that can help, but even still…