Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yes, very original. I've never heard that one before. Now's the moment when I enumerate all the ways you can increase your accuracy in chapter 1 alone.

That's why I was using the Dean Machine. But the game didn't like that and broke his legs 😔

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That's why I was using the Dean Machine. But the game didn't like that and broke his legs 😔

Yeah, because you threw the 3 defense guy at the most powerful enemy in chapter 2-main instead of using Ward to tank or Sylvis to Aim him down or let him come at you so you could fight him in a better position or just avoid him because he's a completely optional enemy. Next time, strategize in the strategy game.

...I mean, ngl I do sympathize, that was some sucky luck there. Still, if ever I end up playing Xenoblade, I'm going to find powerful enemies, run like a headless chicken at them, get slaughtered and spend the next few years blaming the game for it.

[ping]

@Saint Rubenio The crossover that I totally missed until roughly an hour ago. Popeslander in Ferelden, I can't believe it.

(The concept of a magic user that is also a pope would probably explode a few heads in Thedas, too)
(actually, the concept of a pope would already be weird enough, with priesthood being female-exclusive outside of weird murdervillages in the mountains)

(and yeah, any old saves were on the laptop that went fubar. I rolled a Mage because that's the only way to unlock the Bloodmage kit; plus, even though I prefer other origins in terms of narration, Mage is more fun in gameplay.)

[BrightBow]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The problem is that if you get hit with Cripple there's really nothing you can do about it. Whether it applies is inconsistent and if you get hit by it, you have to babysit that unit for the rest of the map until you get them back to base.

It's not inconsistent. You are never in a situation where you can get crippled if you play your cards right. You are not supposed to be taking 50%+ damage left and right.
 

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I have said this before maybe but Break is Cripple but implemented way better: consistent application, fundamental to success but getting hit by Break yourself doesn't turn your unit into a liability for the rest of the map, as Break only lasts for a unit's individual turn and Armors are immune to it, giving them a better use like in Berwick. Like many things, Kaga did it first but it was refined by someone else.

Because Break prevents counters? That's just how Berwick combat works normally. Has nothing to do with cripples.
 

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

One of those reasons is because in Engage you can actually hit the target.

Idk, I doubt Engage gives you a +30 accuracy skill on the very first map. Or even just a +22 one.

[BrightBow]

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, because you threw the 3 defense guy at the most powerful enemy in chapter 2-main instead of using Ward to tank or Sylvis to Aim him down or let him come at you so you could fight him in a better position or just avoid him because he's a completely optional enemy. Next time, strategize in the strategy game.

Huh, was he trying to go for a Vengeful proc?

[Saint Rubenio]

13 minutes ago, ping said:

@Saint Rubenio The crossover that I totally missed until roughly an hour ago. Popeslander in Ferelden, I can't believe it.

Little known fact: This is the reason Wendell wasn't at his house in the viking beach in Book 2. He was at Khadein, and he tried to do a quick sprint back home, but he overshot it and ended up at Ferelden. Then when he sprinted back, he ran Lang over and got arrested for it. The joke is that Wendell is really fast.

12 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

You are not supposed to be taking 50%+ damage left and right.

One thing I love about Berwick visually is the way the game makes you really feel those big damage hits. Aside from the regular flinching animations, which are a great touch, if the damage is big enough the animation freezes for a few frames and the character flickers. Coupled with the super crunchy damage noises, it always has me making the sound of frying fish, figuratively speaking, because I know there's that chance of crippling looming over me.

12 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Idk, I doubt Engage gives you a +30 accuracy skill on the very first map. Or even just a +22 one.

...Actually, I think it does lol. You can totally inherit +hit from Marth very early on, not that you'd want to.

4 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Huh, was he trying to go for a Vengeful proc?

As I recall, he just assumed Dean could handle it, because Dean's just that good.

Which, to be fair, not that terrible an assumption. Zalius is easy to underestimate if you're not used to Kaga's fondness for minibosses and side challenges in maps that he embodies - and he's the first such foe in Berwick, so it's doubly easy to think less of him until he's right on top of you with his 6% crit chance.

Of course, that one time it went about as poorly as it possibly could have and Armagon got punished because Kaga resents his hate.

Edited January 1 by Saint Rubenio

[BrightBow]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Actually, I think it does lol. You can totally inherit +hit from Marth very early on, not that you'd want to.

I don't really consider a passive bonus that is just active all the time a "skill". That's just... well, a stat.

Like, Desperation is one of the best skills in Berwick Saga, even though it gives you a larger penalty than a bonus.
You get +22 accuracy. Your enemy is guaranteed to hit and also gets to ignore your defense stat.
So there are some massive drawbacks that force you think when you want to utilize it.
 

13 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

As I recall, he just assumed Dean could handle it, because Dean's just that good.

Which, to be fair, not that terrible an assumption. Zalius is easy to underestimate if you're not used to Kaga's fondness for minibosses and side challenges in maps that he embodies - and he's the first such foe in Berwick, so it's doubly easier to think less of him until he's right on top of you with his 6% crit chance. Of course, it went about as poorly as it possibly could have and Armagon got punished because Kaga resents his hate.

That's hardly a Kaga thing. Not like you are going to have much luck in Advance Wars if you throw basic Infantry on heavy tanks. Just to pick an IS example. The right tool for the right job.

Fire Emblem is kind of an exception among supposed "strategy games" for having it's gameplay revolve around enemies melting on contact with player units. 

[Saint Rubenio]

11 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I don't really consider a passive bonus that is just active all the time a "skill". That's just... well, a stat.

Like, Desperation is one of the best skills in Berwick Saga, even though it gives you a larger penalty than a bonus.
You get +22 accuracy. Your enemy is guaranteed to hit and also gets to ignore your defense stat.
So there are some massive drawbacks that force you think when you want to utilize it.

Well, they can't all be as blessed as Berwick Saga. Berwick's implementation of skills, while not perfect (stuff like Maim exists), is certainly a hell of a lot closer than FE or other KagaSagas ever have been. It's so good.

11 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

That's hardly a Kaga thing. Not like you are going to have much luck in Advance Wars if you throw basic Infantry on heavy tanks. Just to pick an IS example. The right tool for the right job.

The right tool being Sylvis. Or Ward. Sadly I can't complete the trifecta of Very Good Characters by going "Axel" because Axel gets vaporized by Zalius. He's busy crossing the river down south and axing Pizarro a question, anyway.

Edited January 1 by Saint Rubenio

[ping]

28 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Little known fact: This is the reason Wendell wasn't at his house in the viking beach in Book 2. He was at Khadein, and he tried to do a quick sprint back home, but he overshot it and ended up at Ferelden. Then when he sprinted back, he ran Lang over and got arrested for it. The joke is that Wendell is really fast.

He also has very low Skl and Lck bases, so it seems plausible that he'd have trouble sprinting accurately.

[BrightBow]

12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well, they can't all be as blessed as Berwick Saga. Berwick's implementation of skills, while not perfect (stuff like Maim exists), is certainly a hell of a lot closer than FE or KagaSaga ever has been. It's so good.

Berwick Saga is really not that good. It has the right approach and considering it's the first game built on it's framework, it came out really well. But you could do so, so much more.

It's just that IS' output under the Fire Emblem brand is hot garbage. I mean, when Berwick Saga came out, IS just released Path of Radiance, basically the 3rd rerelease of Binding Blade.

Edited January 1 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

46 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Still, if ever I end up playing Xenoblade, I'm going to find powerful enemies, run like a headless chicken at them, get slaughtered and spend the next few years blaming the game for it.

You don't need to run to them, they will come right to you lol

33 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Actually, I think it does lol. You can totally inherit +hit from Marth very early on, not that you'd want to.

Sigurd, but yes. There're also some other ways to increase like weapon engraves and stuff.

9 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Well, they can't all be as blessed as Berwick Saga

You know how much i love Berwick

But when it comes to RNG, even if i was fine with it (thanks to skills), i wouldn't call it blessed. It's definitely something that can turn off newcomers very easily, and it does make the game slower than it should be

I do think something like a +/- hit Weapon triangle (or something like it) would've worked wonders in Berwick, and made Hit rates more reliable if placed your units right...probably didn't wanna do that for copyright reasons tho, since he had that whole beef with Ninty going on

[Saint Rubenio]

15 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Berwick Saga is really not that good. It has the right approach and considering it's the first game built on it's framework, it came out really well. But you could do so, so much more.

It's just that IS' output under the Fire Emblem brand is hot garbage. I mean, when Berwick Saga came out, IS just released Path of Radiance, basically the 3rd rerelease of Binding Blade.

Hah, well, fair enough. Though really, I find most games don't really have skill systems quite like this. Competition's not exactly stellar in general.

Another good example's probably Triangle Strategy. The unit feel in that game is off the charts, due to almost all skills being unique to characters, to the point where a subset of people hate on it because they played it expecting Tactics Ogre with its highly malleable, more generic units.

You know, actually, from all I know of you, I kinda feel like you'd enjoy Triangle Strategy. Doubt as much as Berwick Saga, but it lacks a lot of the stuff you hate. If ever you want to take a break from the Kagas and try something new.

13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

You know how much i love Berwick

But when it comes to RNG, even if i was fine with it (thanks to skills), i wouldn't call it blessed. It's definitely something that can turn off newcomers very easily, and it does make the game slower than it should be

Well, I was talking about skills specifically there. I do see your point, though. There's a reason it's such a niche game.

13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I do think something like a +/- hit Weapon triangle (or something like it) would've worked wonders in Berwick, and made Hit rates more reliable if placed your units right...probably didn't wanna do that for copyright reasons tho, since he had that whole beef with Ninty going on

Ehhh that might've been a reason, but I think Kaga just didn't like the weapon triangle idea as much as IntSys did. Of Kaga's 9 games, only 2 have the weapon triangle. In both of them (FE4 and FE5) it's weak to the point where it's pretty easy to ignore. Then when he went solo he basically just ditched the idea entirely, not even picking it back up for Vestaria, where he's clearly no longer worried about such things.

Edited January 1 by Saint Rubenio

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ehhh that might've been a reason, but I think Kaga just didn't like the weapon triangle idea as much as IntSys did. Of Kaga's 9 games, only 2 have the weapon triangle. In both of them (FE4 and FE5) it's weak to the point where it's pretty easy to ignore. Then when he went solo he basically just ditched the idea entirely, not even picking it back up for Vestaria, where he's clearly no longer worried about such things.

Inb4 the lawsuit scared him from using it again.

[Saint Rubenio]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Inb4 the lawsuit scared him from using it again.

lol he got PTSD from the whole ordeal. He wakes up at night shuddering from the nightmares. The nightmares of Nintendo ninjas...

[BrightBow]

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Another good example's probably Triangle Strategy. The unit feel in that game is off the charts, due to almost all skills being unique to characters, to the point where a subset of people hate on it because they played it expecting Tactics Ogre with its highly malleable, more generic units.

You know, actually, from all I know of you, I kinda feel like you'd enjoy Triangle Strategy. Doubt as much as Berwick Saga, but it lacks a lot of the stuff you hate. If ever you want to take a break from the Kagas and try something new.

I did try several times. I always ended up being turned off by the fact that the characters just can't shut up during combat.

It's like if Clippy had voice acting.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Saint Rubenio said:

lol he got PTSD from the whole ordeal. He wakes up at night shuddering from the nightmares. The nightmares of Nintendo ninjas...

Well, we know he ditched pegasi from Berwick, so...

[BrightBow]

20 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ehhh that might've been a reason, but I think Kaga just didn't like the weapon triangle idea as much as IntSys did. Of Kaga's 9 games, only 2 have the weapon triangle. In both of them (FE4 and FE5) it's weak to the point where it's pretty easy to ignore. Then when he went solo he basically just ditched the idea entirely, not even picking it back up for Vestaria, where he's clearly no longer worried about such things.

It is in Tear Ring Saga. Because Tear Ring Saga has everything.
It's just that it's disabled and only exist as an optional rule in multiplayer.
Which does very much prove the point. They bothered to actually code it in. Which means it's very deliberate that they decided not to actually use it in the end.

But a magic triangle of sorts exists in the Vestaria Saga games.
Only important thing about it is that dark magic gets a small crit bonus when used against spirit magic. That can potentially be dangerous.

Feels like it's more meant to give magic "personality" than anything. Holy beats Dark. Dark beats Spirit. Spirit beats... nothing. Because Spirit and Holy are homies.
To maybe create this sense that Dark is a toxic force eroding the physical world, as represented by Spirit magic.

Edited January 1 by BrightBow

[Saint Rubenio]

4 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I did try several times. I always ended up being turned off by the fact that the characters just can't shut up during combat.

It's like if Clippy had voice acting.

Ah, I was not aware.

...Yeaaaah you know, if that's an issue I think modern gaming's not going in the right direction for you. Mountains of voice clips on every action is the way it is nowadays.

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, we know he ditched pegasi from Berwick, so...

He then brought them back for Vestaria. Or, well, just used the default fliers from SRPG Studio, the copyright-free "eagle knights."

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

It is in Tear Ring Saga. Because Tear Ring Saga has everything.
It's just that it's disabled and only exist as an optional rule in multiplayer.
Which does very much prove the point. They bothered to code it in, but realized that it wasn't adding anything to the game. So they turned it off.

Considering it's the first Kaga game that removed it, I wouldn't be surprised if they added it on principle, removed it for the copyright and just didn't feel it was worth trying to reimplement in some other way.

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

But a magic triangle of sorts exists in the Vestaria Saga games.
Only important thing about it is that dark magic gets a small crit bonus when used against spirit magic. That can potentially be dangerous.

Oh. I hadn't the faintest idea. That's funky.

[Codename Shrimp]

25 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

In both of them (FE4 and FE5) it's weak to the point where it's pretty easy to ignore.

in FE4 it's +/- 20 hit, so not really that easy to ignore

That said, it's FE4 lol

 

[Acacia Sgt]

You know, this mechanics talk reminds me... I wonder if I should do more work on that RP system I have. Maybe post it on the threads and... see if anyone could be interested in using it. Maybe. Hmm... I wonder...

[Interdimensional Observer]

Asia-only mobile game crossover art. Feels a little late for this (seriously, they had a whole month).

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Which is fine. I can't think of a single RPG where speed isn't the most important stat, whether it affects turn orders or evasion or whatnot.

SRPGs and JRPGs? 

It's pretty much a dump stat in SMTIII. Player and enemy turns are wholly separate, and I don't think Agility has any real effect on accuracy & evasion (Sukukaja/kunda is far more important even if Ag did anything). Best build for the Demi-Fiend is like a few early Vit points, then some Mag (no more than 10~20/40), then dump into Str until 30 (no need to hit the cap when the ultimate Magatama provides +10 to all stats). Add occasional additional Vit points into the above as desired, end things with enough Lck to open a few doors in the Labyrinth of Amala, if wanted. 

There, one exception from the top of my head. Certainly not true of all other SMTs (optimal build in SMT1 would be to dump the MC's points to hit 36 Ag early, rely on Str-ignoring guns & bullets until the powerful lategame swords become available).

I'd say Digital Devil Saga and Devil Survivors certainly don't have Agility/turn speed be the most important things either.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Damn even got the Xenogears spelling.

The wings look a tad lame, not majestic enough. And I killed it in like a minute, but then almost all bosses have keeled very fast in this game, on Hard (I don't really mind it).

[BrightBow]

28 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh. I hadn't the faintest idea. That's funky.

To quote the VS2 calculations page:
https://wiki.serenesforest.net/index.php/Vestaria_Saga_2_Calculations

Magic Triangle

Divine Magic > Dark Magic > Spirit Magic

Magic Triangle bonuses are added to the final combat values, but before the effectiveness/critical multipliers.

Divine Magic vs. Dark Magic

- Divine Magic Wielder: ATK +3, ACC +20, CRIT +5	
- Dark Magic Wielder: ACC -20	

Dark Magic vs. Spirit Magic

- Dark Magic Wielder: ACC +10, CRIT +5	
- Spirit Magic Wielder: ACC -10, CRIT -5

Edited January 1 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

❤️

 

[Acacia Sgt]

My brother and cousin got obsessed with the Genie Lamp item in Mario Party 3, pft...

Edited January 1 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

My brother and cousin got obsessed with the Genie Lamp item in Mario Party 3, pft...

TBF, how can you not like an item that guarantees a star? It's overpowered for the price.