What should my girlfriend's next Fire Emblem game be?

[Fabulously Olivier]

16 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

I never said it was my favorite game you jack ass! I'm just always so fucking tired of seeing people like you, Ottservia, and so many others act like this game is complete garbage without any thing redeemable about it!

Sigh. I withdraw from this conversation to avoid further derailing this thread. This thread isn't about whether Shadows of Valentia is the bestest game evarr!!! or an irredeemable piece of trash. It's neither, by the way. It's video game vegemite. You love it or you hate it.

 

12 minutes ago, DMan64 said:

@Gregster101  Woah man, I respect your opinion, @Fabulously Olivier is just expressing HIS own opinion.  If you really do love the game, no one will take that away from you.  I have no qualm with either one of your opinions.  After all, everyone is going to have a different favorite and least favorite FE, since everyone has different values on what makes a great FE and what doesn't.  I personally really enjoyed SoV, that said, I do think it does have some problems, and when considering what my girlfriend  would like, I do have to take all opinions, good and bad, into account.  I understand if you are very passionate about the game, but it is okay if some doesn't like it, and if someone doesn't find much value in it.  I respect your opinion, and I don't know what beef you two may/may not have, but I don't want this forum to be a source of toxic discussion.

I have no beef with him, or anyone else for that matter.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Second opinion there: Sacred Stones has one of the worst stories in the series. It has two of the least interesting lords (one of whom has almost no impact on the actual plot of the story even when she's the main character), the worst Camus character in the entire series, a world that simply does not make sense, a plot that plays comically fast and loose with the concept of space and time, and a main villain with a lot of potential but basically no chance to develop on it.

 

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Really? Because I would second Sacred Stones having one of the weakest stories in the series.

Well, guess it's an "agree to disagree" then. I quite like the setting of Magvel, and its characters, even if they're somewhat underexplored. I've heard the criticisms of Lyon and Selena, and I don't totally agree. Regardless, I don't think this thread is the appropriate place for any in-depth discussion of Sacred Stones' story. But I respect your right to a different take.

[Fabulously Olivier]

19 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

Well, guess it's an "agree to disagree" then. I quite like the setting of Magvel, and its characters, even if they're somewhat underexplored. I've heard the criticisms of Lyon and Selena, and I don't totally agree. Regardless, I don't think this thread is the appropriate place for any in-depth discussion of Sacred Stones' story. But I respect your right to a different take.

Put me in the pro Sacred Stones camp. I think it's so close to being one of the all time great FEs, and this forum likes to bash on it just for lacking truly high end difficulty options.

 

It's got a great story, a great cast, an excellent branching class system, and some solid maps.

 

For all intents and purposes, Sacred Stones would be a good entry point for the OP's girlfriend.

 

 

 

Also, I think that the undeserved negative reputation of this game will prevent it from getting an Echoes. And that's really tragic, because the amount of work required to turn Sacred Stones into a great game is far, far less than the amount of work required for Gaiden, Geneology, or Binding Blade.

 

Basically just extra difficulty settings (lunatic), casual mode, turnwheel, optional rebalancing of certain units, quality of life features, and a graphics bump. The bare minimum that would be expected of any Echoes remake.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[CustardPudding]

All the DS games (Shadow Dragon, New Mystery, Awakening, Fates, Echoes) would probably be fine, and while New Mystery is a sequel it makes enough sense on it's own. I played it before I played Shadow Dragon, and it made enough sense.

But if she enjoyed Three Houses she'll probably like Echoes, since it has Mila's Turnwheel and many similar mechanics. 

Awakening and Fates are good enough for a beginner, I'd say. Since Fates has 3 different titles I'd recommend Birthright, but even as a beginner Conquest is easy enough, if she's playing on casual anyway. 

[Gregster101]

8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Put me in the pro Sacred Stones camp. I think it's so close to being one of the all time great FEs, and this forum likes to bash on it just for lacking truly high end difficulty options.

 

It's got a great story, a great cast, an excellent branching class system, and some solid maps.

 

For all intents and purposes, Sacred Stones would be a good entry point for the OP's girlfriend.

 

 

 

Also, I think that the undeserved negative reputation of this game will prevent it from getting an Echoes. And that's really tragic, because the amount of work required to turn Sacred Stones into a great game is far, far less than the amount of work required for Gaiden, Geneology, or Binding Blade. 

Tbh, Sacred Stones is one of the games I think needs an Echoes remake the least, partly cuz it's already translated, and partly cuz there's not much to really fix in a potential remake. I'd rather see remakes of Jugdral and Binding Blade before getting remakes of any of the localized FE games (although Tellius would be an exception just cuz of how hard it is to actually be able to play them).

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Gregster101 said:

Tbh, Sacred Stones is one of the games I think needs an Echoes remake the least, partly cuz it's already translated, and partly cuz there's not much to really fix in a potential remake. I'd rather see remakes of Jugdral and Binding Blade before getting remakes of any of the localized FE games (although Tellius would be an exception just cuz of how hard it is to actually be able to play them).

It's the small amount of work that actually makes them good candidates. They'd make for great short term franchise builders.

 

And I'd argue that despite PoR being a damn near perfect game, it could really use a remaster because it looks really bad on modern television resolutions. Also, modern QoL features like one-button all enemy ranges would be much appreciated.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 minute ago, Gregster101 said:

Tbh, Sacred Stones is one of the games I think needs an Echoes remake the least, partly cuz it's already translated, and partly cuz there's not much to really fix in a potential remake. I'd rather see remakes of Jugdral and Binding Blade before getting remakes of any of the localized FE games (although Tellius would be an exception just cuz of how hard it is to actually be able to play them).

Agreed with this - Japan-exclusive titles should get priority in the remake order (excepting FE12, since that's already a remake). I would never turn down a Sacred Stones remake, but FE4/5/6 should get their day in the sun first.

1 minute ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

It's the small amount of work that actually makes them good candidates. They'd make for great short term franchise builders

Trouble is, the less work it takes for a game to be remade, the less it needs a remake. Sacred Stones is still a strong game in its own right - and one that was released internationally, to boot. Even if it takes more time and work, I'd rather IS stick their efforts on remaking games we can't (legally, officially) play yet.

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Agreed with this - Japan-exclusive titles should get priority in the remake order (excepting FE12, since that's already a remake). I would never turn down a Sacred Stones remake, but FE4/5/6 should get their day in the sun first.

Trouble is, the less work it takes for a game to be remade, the less it needs a remake. Sacred Stones is still a strong game in its own right - and one that was released internationally, to boot. Even if it takes more time and work, I'd rather IS stick their efforts on remaking games we can't (legally, officially) play yet.

I don't mean to say that these need to even be mutually exclusive. They probably should prioritize FE 4-6 (for now) because of their lack of official localization.

 

However, FE 7-10 should see cheaply-priced upscaled ports to the eshop or something for now, with full Echoes remakes in the future. Just because it would make the golden years of FE that much better and that much more available.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Fabulously Olivier

[lenticular]

As a point against Sacred Stones, by modern standards, most of the characters don't get much time to shine, and the supports are -- again, by modern standards -- a pain to unlock. Unless you're going out of your way to get supports, it's likely you'll only see a handful of them, and that will leave a lot of characters feeling incredibly flat. If she's looking for good characterisation, she'll have to put in work in order to get it (outside of the handful of main characters like the lords, Seth, L'Arachel, etc.).

I also don't think Shadow Dragon would be a good choice at all, which a couple of people have recommended. Nothing against it as a whole, but it does not seem to me like a good choice for someone who's specifically looking for good story and characters.

My own personal choice would be Path of Radiance, if you have access to it, but that's a biased choice based on personal preference rather than any sort of deep considered reasoning.

[Shadow Mir]

6 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Put me in the pro Sacred Stones camp. I think it's so close to being one of the all time great FEs, and this forum likes to bash on it just for lacking truly high end difficulty options.

I don't have much issue with the lack of difficulty; I'd rather play an easy game than one that's hard for all the wrong reasons, personally. My issues with it stem more from the cast being one of the more forgettable ones (and possibly the most forgettable outside of Archanea). It doesn't help that one of the main characters not only doesn't do much of anything noteworthy even when she's the main character, the one moment she's most known for is one that her detractors love to roast her for. Those alone are grounds for me to want a remake to improve on both the story and characters. Also, I'd like for the remake to not be sharing development time with another project, as opposed to the fact that Sacred Stones was in development around the same time as Path of Radiance was, which I can imagine only hurt it.

[DMan64]

Cool to see the discussion continue. On the subject of further Echoes remakes, I think 4-6 will definitely be prioritized. That said, I think some of 7-10 could also get some sort of remaster, or a light remake of sorts. PoR imo I want the most as remaster/light remake, as it can address some issues like slow speed, animation, and graphics, maybe add a casual mode, and leave the rest of the game alone. With Sacred Stones, I'd kinda be more down for a heavier remake, mostly to add some more challenge to the game, such as harder difficulties that limit how much you grind and adding stronger enemies/nerfing allied units, and rework some of the systems, like how to get support conversations. Of course the story and writing could also use some improvements too. It's still a fine game, but I think it could use some notable improvements. But for now, I'd prioritize 4-6. Maybe PoR since it sold poorly, and is dearly beloved and highly sought after, but for now 4-6 I want more.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, DMan64 said:

Cool to see the discussion continue. On the subject of further Echoes remakes, I think 4-6 will definitely be prioritized. That said, I think some of 7-10 could also get some sort of remaster, or a light remake of sorts. PoR imo I want the most as remaster/light remake, as it can address some issues like slow speed, animation, and graphics, maybe add a casual mode, and leave the rest of the game alone. With Sacred Stones, I'd kinda be more down for a heavier remake, mostly to add some more challenge to the game, such as harder difficulties that limit how much you grind and adding stronger enemies/nerfing allied units, and rework some of the systems, like how to get support conversations. Of course the story and writing could also use some improvements too. It's still a fine game, but I think it could use some notable improvements. But for now, I'd prioritize 4-6. Maybe PoR since it sold poorly, and is dearly beloved and highly sought after, but for now 4-6 I want more.

Truthfully, I've been spoiled by the last couple games, but I'll be blunt - I'll be at least mildly disappointed with any FE remake (or remaster) that doesn't feature full voice acting. It's just so cool for establishing immersion, and the voice casting thus far has been top-notch.

Also, personally, I'd like to see some degree of standardization when remaking games that are set in a shared universe. Why do Axes suddenly lose hit in the 20 years between FE6 and FE7? Did all the Armorslayer manufacturers go bankrupt after PoR, and started making Steel Poleaxes instead? Just my tastes, but I feel that even keeping the small stuff the same reinforces the sense of a consistently-constructed world.

But yeah, come to think of it, FE8 is basically at the bottom of my list of potential remakes (even though I like the game, personally). Genealogy is a great game that's due, and Thracia makes sense to follow. FE6 gave us Roy, who is our boy - and a remade FE7 would be a natural companion piece to it. Finally, the Tellius games were very ambitious, but had hardware limitations that left the presentation lacking - plus, they're hard to find today.

[DMan64]

@Shanty Pete's 1st Mate I agree. Since SoV, I can't imagine FE without voice acting. It's surprising how much it can really add to the story and characters (Berkut is a good villain, but the voice acting really makes him stand out).  I also think that standardization of mechanics and elements of games in the same universe would be good, but certain mechanics were made deliberately for the games they are in(though axes really could use a buff in an FE6 remake).

I'm curious though, if they do remake FE6, will they do 7 as a companion title some time later, or will they sort of do an FE 3 and divide them by Books, with Book 1 being Blazing Blade, and Book 2 Binding Blade. If so, would they expand upon Mark, promoting him to be a playable Avatar character, or keep him a minor part of the story. It would certainly be a meaty package, but I wouldn't take that out of the question.

I think the only game I'd be anxious about a remake for is FE4. For one the game would likely get an M rating if they stay faithful to the themes and ideas of the story, maybe barely edging out a T rating, and even then I'd be afraid they try to tone it down. Secondly, I feel the gameplay would certainly be difficult to adjust to modern standards, though seeing as they made SoV way better than Gaiden, while still being faithful to it, I have some faith they could do it.

Tharacia I actually think wouldn't be that hard to remake. Just iron out some enemy placement, add a casual mode, and maybe make the way to get side chapters and recruitments not as insane, and you'd pretty much be good. It still keeps it's challenge factor, it's just made slightly more manageable, and the unfair elements that do exist are taken care of.

I do wish Sacred Stones got some more attention. I always felt like there was something potentially there, but given it only had about a 1 year development cycle, I feel like it just didn't have enough time to really get there.

PoR and RD, well... I already gave my thoughts in a PoR remake, as for RD, I feel like that may be the most tricky game to remake honestly. It has such a different structure compared to the other games, and many times during gameplay you have to do very strange things just to make things more manageable, especially for when you get back to the Dawn Brigade. In terms of the story, I honestly wasn't the biggest fan of RD's story. I hope they reconsider certain story elements, like the Blood Contract... that was really, truly dumb. I don't think that RD's story was terrible, it just had some strange decisions.

Also, I talked with my girlfriend, the two titles she is interested in are PoR and SoV. I do have both games, and I'm totally willing to let her borrow both my 3DS and GameCube to try them out. Thanks everyone for the feedback! 🙂

[Fabulously Olivier]

On 8/10/2020 at 7:15 PM, Shadow Mir said:

I don't have much issue with the lack of difficulty; I'd rather play an easy game than one that's hard for all the wrong reasons, personally. My issues with it stem more from the cast being one of the more forgettable ones (and possibly the most forgettable outside of Archanea). It doesn't help that one of the main characters not only doesn't do much of anything noteworthy even when she's the main character, the one moment she's most known for is one that her detractors love to roast her for. Those alone are grounds for me to want a remake to improve on both the story and characters. Also, I'd like for the remake to not be sharing development time with another project, as opposed to the fact that Sacred Stones was in development around the same time as Path of Radiance was, which I can imagine only hurt it.

I disagree on the cast completely. Sacred Stones has a really lively cast when you factor in L'Arachel, Dozla, Rennac, Joshua, Tethys, and Forde in particular. Gerik and Cormag are also particularly popular, among others.

 

It's preferable to actually boring casts (SD/NM) or overly flanderized ones (Fates). 

[Arevir Wehttam]

If she wants a memorable story, she can’t go wrong with FE9: PoR; and depending how much she enjoys that, she can always jump straight into FE10: RD. 

[LightingChaos]

tell her to play FE5

she'll love it bro, it's so fun and easy! 

[DMan64]

@LightingChaos I know your joking, but I'm half tempted to just to see what happens.

On a serious note when I actually started playing it myself, and honestly I don't think it's that bad.  It certainly was not easy, but I honestly found it to be one of the most fun experiences in the series from a game play perspective, and surprisingly fair once you are actually aware of the mechanics of the game and how they function.  

[Benice]

Come to think of it, although it is very challenging and deviates from normal FE mechanics, Berwick Saga has a really strong plot and cast, not to mention amazing gameplay. At some point, it may be worth giving it a whirl! (Although it may be one that you two would want to Co-op, because it's not easy...)

TearRing is also pretty good from what I've heard and seen, and is much more like a normal FE game, so that one also is probably worth checking out!

Edited August 19, 2020 by Benice

[null]

I'm going to repeat what others have said and go with Path of Radiance and Awakening. Awakening in particular was a great entry point into the series for me, with things like casual mode, grinding, and a light difficulty overall to makes things easier to get into. Path of Radiance is also a nice introduction to the older style of FE games, as it's pretty easy overall and can be made even easier with BEXP. Both have good stories and memorable characters, so I think you can't go wrong with either one of them.

[Venger_06]

I wouldn't recommend Echoes, since it's gameplay very different from the standard FE game. To make her progression easier, I would recommend Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones or Shadow Dragon. New Mystery is also a good choice, since it has Casual Mode and a playable avatar. My personal choice would be SD -> NM -> Awakening -> Echoes, so she can experience the entire Archanea saga.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Maof06