The future of faithful remakes and why I think remakes should start embracing change and modernization more.

[Lord_Brand]

I found Crash N. Sane Trilogy and Spyro Reignited Trilogy to be much-needed returns to form after the 6th and 7th generation games completely derailed their series. No better way to get their series back on track than HD remasters of the original trilogies, with fantastic animation to boot. They even added a little extra, with Crash getting Relic time trials in all three games not to mention getting the Crash Dash in Crash 2 upon beating the game, and Spyro 1 getting Skill Points (though the removal of Epilogues in SRT is a knock against it). SRT went the extra mile with the various unique dragon designs in Spyro 1, making even the bland "Thank you for releasing me" dragons interesting in some way. The credits sequence showing Spyro hanging out with the various Artisans Dragons is also a cute touch, though I do miss the fly-through epilogues of the PS1 originals. Given more time, I'd like to think the devs could have worked in extended animations for each game's credits sequence that show case the various inhabitants of each realm after you've beaten the game (maybe they could have worked the Epilogue scenes in that way?).

Crash Team Racing: Nitro-Fueled meanwhile is a fantastic example of an expanded remake, not only remastering everything in the original CTR but adding a whole new game's worth of content, including a squidload of additional playable racers (including characters from CNK and CTTR) with skins galore, customizable karts, many additional tracks...it's a pity the Grand Prixs didn't go on for longer, I'd have loved to see themes like Medieval Kingdom and Arabian Nights explored, not to mention more Spyro content.

Link's Awakening for Switch is an example of a remake that looks and plays great, but doesn't offer enough content for its price tag. Dampe's Dungeon Designer was good for some puzzles, but ultimately doesn't come close to being the Zelda maker fans have wanted for nearly a decade now. Fans want a Mario Maker-level game, not a minigame that lets you rearrange rooms. Perhaps the Oracle remakes, should they happen, will offer a more comprehensive Zelda maker as a side mode. Could be a good new role for Farore to play, since the Oracle remakes really ought to be a 2-in-1 compilation and thus have no need for Secrets, at least the way the GBC originals handled them. Although, I would be interested in seeing something closer to the original planned trilogy that became the Oracle Games, which themselves started out as a remake of the original Zelda for GBC (this is reflected in Oracle of Seasons, which includes a number of elements from the original Zelda such as the bosses Aquamentus, Dodongo, Manhandla, Gohma, Digdogger, and Gleeok; additionally, Eyesoar from OoA appears to be an updated version of Patra, a miniboss who appeared in the final dungeon of the original game).

[vanguard333]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:47 PM, Samz707 said:

I can't speak on the faithfulness of Echoes (Aside from Turnwheel, which I kinda hate more because this lead to Divine Pulse in 3H.) but it at least seems to try to keep alot of the unique factors from Gaiden, rather than just re-using say, how promotion works from Awakening/Fates and getting rid of Cantors and just having Ambush spawns instead.

True; credit where credit is due for Shadows of Valentia, it did at least try to respect what made Gaiden unique (gameplay-wise at least) to the point of that being one of the selling points. I can't imagine that was an easy decision either, since Gaiden was basically Fire Emblem's The Adventure of Link. My problems with Gaiden are entirely to do with where it chose to be 1:1 and where it chose to overhaul/modernize being as if the team was conflicted on what they actually wanted to do with the remake, and not whether or not the remake was faithful to what made the original unique and interesting.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 3:45 PM, Lord_Brand said:

Link's Awakening for Switch is an example of a remake that looks and plays great, but doesn't offer enough content for its price tag. Dampe's Dungeon Designer was good for some puzzles, but ultimately doesn't come close to being the Zelda maker fans have wanted for nearly a decade now. Fans want a Mario Maker-level game, not a minigame that lets you rearrange rooms. Perhaps the Oracle remakes, should they happen, will offer a more comprehensive Zelda maker as a side mode. Could be a good new role for Farore to play, since the Oracle remakes really ought to be a 2-in-1 compilation and thus have no need for Secrets, at least the way the GBC originals handled them. Although, I would be interested in seeing something closer to the original planned trilogy that became the Oracle Games, which themselves started out as a remake of the original Zelda for GBC (this is reflected in Oracle of Seasons, which includes a number of elements from the original Zelda such as the bosses Aquamentus, Dodongo, Manhandla, Gohma, Digdogger, and Gleeok; additionally, Eyesoar from OoA appears to be an updated version of Patra, a miniboss who appeared in the final dungeon of the original game).

I personally would love to see all three Oracle games be remade (or, in the case of the scrapped third game, made) using the Link's Awakening Remake's engine, though probably not its art style. I was one of the people that really liked the art style of Link's Reawakening, but with the caveat that it fit the game because the game took place in a dream world, and the toy-like design contrasted nicely with the more anime-like opening and ending cinematics. I don't think it would fit the Oracle games nearly as well.

[Lord_Brand]

5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I personally would love to see all three Oracle games be remade (or, in the case of the scrapped third game, made) using the Link's Awakening Remake's engine, though probably not its art style. I was one of the people that really liked the art style of Link's Reawakening, but with the caveat that it fit the game because the game took place in a dream world, and the toy-like design contrasted nicely with the more anime-like opening and ending cinematics. I don't think it would fit the Oracle games nearly as well.

On the other hand, keeping the look intact would be a cute way of commenting on how the originals borrowed a lot of assets from LA. But I could settle for an HD version of ALBW's style, since Link's design in that game is based on his look in the Oracles which itself was a combination of the ALttP design with the addition of Adult Link's white leggings from OoT.

[vanguard333]

8 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

On the other hand, keeping the look intact would be a cute way of commenting on how the originals borrowed a lot of assets from LA. But I could settle for an HD version of ALBW's style, since Link's design in that game is based on his look in the Oracles which itself was a combination of the ALttP design with the addition of Adult Link's white leggings from OoT.

Oh, yeah; the Oracle games did borrow assets from Link's Awakening. I would just say that 2D sprite-based games leave a lot more room for the mind to fill things in than 3D graphics do; Majora's Mask got away with the massive asset reuse despite the 3D graphics because it added to the surreal atmosphere of the game (as well as somewhat reflecting Link's emotional state of actually missing the adult timeline and searching for Navi).

Something like an HD version of ALBW's style could work; maybe some sort of blend of that and the Link's Reawakening art style might be best? That way you get the reference to the original games' asset reuse (and probably also save Grezzo a lot more time and effort) without the remakes looking like a dream world and while keeping Link's Reawakening looking unique.

Going back to content though for just a minute, one reason I hope that the Oracle games are remade with the scrapped third game included is that I do enjoy when remakes add back in stuff that was cut. One thing I found a bit disappointing in hindsight about Wind Waker HD (which was labelled as a remake and not simply a remaster) was that it didn't add in any of the content that was cut when the original game was rushed onto the shelves: no Jabun dungeon, no third sage temple, and no undersea sections of the temples. I read that, apparently, they were originally going to add that stuff into the HD remake, but then decided to "stay true to the original version of the game". To some extent, I can see what they mean, as Greatfish Isle having been destroyed by Ganon was likely a result of that very same rush and it added a lot to the game's atmosphere and would've been missed if adding the Jabun dungeon would've meant getting rid of that. But I still think it would've been better if they could've found a way to add back in at least some of the cut content without losing anything. With the Oracle Games, they really could make the scrapped third game finally see the light of day without having to remove anything from the other two games, so it's a perfect opportunity.

[Lord_Brand]

4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Going back to content though for just a minute, one reason I hope that the Oracle games are remade with the scrapped third game included is that I do enjoy when remakes add back in stuff that was cut. One thing I found a bit disappointing in hindsight about Wind Waker HD (which was labelled as a remake and not simply a remaster) was that it didn't add in any of the content that was cut when the original game was rushed onto the shelves: no Jabun dungeon, no third sage temple, and no undersea sections of the temples. I read that, apparently, they were originally going to add that stuff into the HD remake, but then decided to "stay true to the original version of the game". To some extent, I can see what they mean, as Greatfish Isle having been destroyed by Ganon was likely a result of that very same rush and it added a lot to the game's atmosphere and would've been missed if adding the Jabun dungeon would've meant getting rid of that. But I still think it would've been better if they could've found a way to add back in at least some of the cut content without losing anything. With the Oracle Games, they really could make the scrapped third game finally see the light of day without having to remove anything from the other two games, so it's a perfect opportunity.

That sounds intriguing! I imagine the third Sage dungeon would have been for a Water Sage? In which case, Laruto would have made more sense in that role than as the Earth Sage.

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

That sounds intriguing! I imagine the third Sage dungeon would have been for a Water Sage? In which case, Laruto would have made more sense in that role than as the Earth Sage.

I don't know. It's possible. Though it would probably more likely have been a "Sea Sage" or something like that, as the sages that ensured the Master Sword's strength don't overlap with the six sages and "Water Sage" is one of the six.

A YouTuber named Zeltik made a good video about some of the different theories regarding the two missing dungeons. In it, he mentions another reason Nintendo gave for not including them in Wind Waker HD: that a lot of the assets for those two scrapped dungeons were recycled in later games. Here's the video so you can see for yourself:

Spoiler

 

Now, he connects the scrapped Stovepipe Island to the fire mini-dungeon because of the visual similarities, but I think that, if anything, it was probably a third temple; more than likely one that incorporated all four of the late-game items (iron boots, bracelets, fire & ice arrows) given that the Goron Mines in Twilight Princess uses the bow and the iron boots.

[Lord_Brand]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I don't know. It's possible. Though it would probably more likely have been a "Sea Sage" or something like that, as the sages that ensured the Master Sword's strength don't overlap with the six sages and "Water Sage" is one of the six.

That would work better if the Wind Sage was instead a "Sky Sage", thereby covering Earth, Sea, and Sky. Though Earth, Sea, and Wind isn't too bad either. Honestly, they could have gone the extra mile with a new Fire Sage as well.

Alternatively, they could have had an Ice Sage since the scrapped Greatfish Isle dungeon and the Tower of the Gods in the final game both represent the water theme already. The shadowy Earth Temple is quite distinct from fiery Dragon Roost Cavern, while the Forbidden Woods and Wind Temple are pretty similar thematically, but with the latter being more mechanical in nature, likely based on the scrapped Wind Temple from OoT (explaining why the Forest Medallion has a symbol on it suggesting wind or a propeller; note that the Forest portion of Ganon's Castle uses the wind fans from the Shadow Temple). Not to mention, OoT was originally going to have an Ice Temple along with a Wind Temple (which is why the Water Medallion bears a symbol similar to a snowflake, and why the Water portion of Ganon's Castle is ice-themed). Since TWW has a Wind Temple, it's possible an Ice Temple was planned at some point as well, following the tradition for future Zelda games to use ideas that weren't able to be worked into past Zeldas.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Lord_Brand