Mekkah Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Back on topic, I really feel JEORGE CARLIN really deserves to move up a few tiers. He's a reliable killer at jointime and stays that way the entire game. That's a lot of convincing numerical proof you provided there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 ...you've played NM, I hope. NM enemies are made out of suck and fail. C11: Cav: 22 HP 13 atk 94 hit 7 AS 9 def Peg: 20 HP 12 atk [1-2 rng] 75 hit 7 AS 6 def Yeah. Jeorge kills everything he doubles in C11 with Silver. You get another silver bow from the enemy sniper in C10 and no competent units care about the bows, so I don't see why he couldn't use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ...you've played NM, I hope.NM enemies are made out of suck and fail. C11: Cav: 22 HP 13 atk 94 hit 7 AS 9 def Peg: 20 HP 12 atk [1-2 rng] 75 hit 7 AS 6 def Yeah. UGH! THOSE are what I'm up against on normal!? Man...I'm not even gonna start on normal mode. That is just hilariously bad. ...Did they even change the stats for normal mode when transitioning FE1 enemies to FEDS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 probably not nothing ever reaches any stat above 20. Even the mamkutes only have like 16 AS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I am still unsure on Healer Merric. I find Mage to be superior. Healer Merric has a mere 5 move, which will slow down your team so that they can get healed. He does not promote efficiency by slowing your team down. Coming to Physic. You only get 2 in the entire game, meaning 20 uses of Physic. Is that seriously good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This isn't FE4's map design with huge empty spaces in enormous maps. Movement isn't as much of a problem since there are enough obstacles to cause units to not use full move all the time. Another thing is that Marth is not a mounted unit, and chapters are played by his pace. Units can afford slowing down to allow Merric to have EXP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) To be fair, I don't know much about this game. By the way, since you can literally cruise through enemies in this game, you will be making a lot of space in a short time. Merric can only move 5 spaces. Also, let's check this out. FE11 maps are actually pretty large. Not FE4, but that's not a good argument. Just because they're not FE4 large doesn't mean they're not inhibiting Merric's performance. http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo05.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo06.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo06x.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo07.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo08.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo10.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo11.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo12.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo12x.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo13.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo14.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo16.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo17.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo17x.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo18.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo20x.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo21.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo22.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo23.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo24.htm http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/fe11/guia/capitulo25.htm Merric will struggle in these chapters. Those are like most of the chapters in the game. Marth has 7 move. It explains itself. 2 more move than Merric. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Also, let's check this out. FE11 maps are actually pretty large.Not really. They only appear large due to the individual tile size. By the time you get to the largest maps in the game, Merric will be promoted, and even on those maps you usually face enemies with high movement that go after you.Choke points matter. Thanks for that page though. Having map pictures is awesome. Edited February 12, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Not really. They only appear large due to the individual tile size. By the time you get to the largest maps in the game, Merric will be promoted, and even on those maps you usually face enemies with high movement that go after you.Choke points matter. Thanks for that page though. Having map pictures is awesome. They are still pretty large compared to games like FE7 and 8, my point. Yeah, Merric gained 1 move from promotion. That's fine and all, but your other units are gaining move too by promoting, so it balances out. Sure, Merric will be getting some heals, but the fact that for efficiency you can't take infinite turns is really degrading. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) They are still pretty large compared to games like FE7 and 8, my point.GBA games also deduct 1 movement from most units to compensate.If Merric ever loses his top tier spot, it will never be because of his Movement. You're overrating that matter way too much. Edited February 12, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 GBA games also deduct 1 movement from most units to compensate.If Merric ever loses his top tier spot, it will never be because of his Movement. You're overrating that matter way too much. Not Merric. I'd believe you if you showed me valid points. I'm not exaggerating, but I don't see how it can make him better than the likes of Zagaro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I put Zagaro in a separate tier in the H5 tier list due to brokeness, while Merric is just a top tier character. I should really put Wolf in the same broken tier regardless of the gap. You'll have to speak up with Sweet Tooth for his tier list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think Merric should keep his top tier spot, but his disadvantages don't make him better than Zagaro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 fine only because Hero is the superior option for Zag on NM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I am still unsure on Healer Merric. I find Mage to be superior.Healer Merric has a mere 5 move, which will slow down your team so that they can get healed. He does not promote efficiency by slowing your team down. Coming to Physic. You only get 2 in the entire game, meaning 20 uses of Physic. Is that seriously good enough? From what I'm hearing, the main point is him leveling up at light speed and still getting nice stats out of it, able to promote early and switch back to sage to be awesome so much quicker. I haven't played the game though, so I wouldn't know just how much more awesome this makes him. But there's a basic explanation until the others can explain it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) From what I'm hearing, the main point is him leveling up at light speed and still getting nice stats out of it, able to promote early and switch back to sage to be awesome so much quicker. I haven't played the game though, so I wouldn't know just how much more awesome this makes him. But there's a basic explanation until the others can explain it better. I never denied his usefulness. I merely said he should drop down one spot. In a tier list, we show how a character improves the general efficiency of the team. The main problem here is Merric's move - while not too much of a bad thing (he can't heal as much thanks to it, decreasing efficiency), I was arguing that it doesn't grant him the right to be better than Zagaro. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I never denied his usefulness. I merely said he should drop down one spot.In a tier list, we show how a character improves the general efficiency of the team. The main problem here is Merric's move - while not too much of a bad thing (he can't heal as much thanks to it, decreasing efficiency), I was arguing that it doesn't grant him the right to be better than Zagaro. Again, I haven't played the game yet, just explaining what I believe to be the base. Just to have an explanation until the other guys get here to explain it better. An appetizer if you will. But there HAVE been mentions of him dropping, so don't think he'll necessarily be staying either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) I already dropped him below Zag. Zag also does win combat the whole time when you factor in handaxes do basically the same thing as Merric's magic, so all Merric really has going for him over Zag is healing. Edited February 12, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) I already dropped him below Zag.Zag also does win combat the whole time when you factor in handaxes do basically the same thing as Merric's magic, so all Merric really has going for him over Zag is healing. Yes, I know. And that healing is no longer as great as it could have been, thanks to the low move. That's why Zag > Merric. Also, this is NM. In NM, healing is just not as useful since the enemies are seriously pathetic. Edited February 12, 2009 by Shanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) in that case, he should probably go down under the cavs and prolly Barst as well. I'm keeping him in the top tier, though EDT: But here's something. Below Barst is fair game since he has 1-2 range, and Water Walk's not hurting. Marth...doesn't have 1-2 range that doesn't suck. So we've got Merric>Marth but not Barst. This is quite a conundrum... Edited February 14, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) I'd edit, but I want this post to be seen. Just noticed Wolf was shoved into his own tier above the cavs/Merric and below Zagaro/Xane on the H5 list. Want me to do that here, too? Edited February 14, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Just noticed Wolf was shoved into his own tier above the cavs/Merric and below Zagaro/Xane on the H5 list. Want me to do that here, too?That's up to you, but I would suggest doing so since it's the only clear solution I can think of for his tier position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slax Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 and you guys wouldn't believe me when I said merric wasn't top. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Merric should stay in top, for being a kickass mage and healer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 and you guys wouldn't believe me when I said merric wasn't top. XD Merric IS top. Just not Clint Eastwood tier anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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