Aedan7479 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 The Camus is famous/infamous; soldiers that fight for their country even when they know their king is in the wrong. But something I find interesting is that while Marth fails to convince Camus, Caeda is able to convince Lorenz, who puts up the same argument. I like this quite a bit because it shows Caeda succeeding where Marth failed. So I wonder if anything would've changed if Caeda presented the same argument to Camus. Would Artemis' curse prevail, or logic? Note: I'm aware that in Shadow Dragon, Marth is able to recruit Lorenz, but that doesn't apply to the NES and SNES, so I guess I should've done this in THAT area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 No. Nyna herself failed to appeal to Camus, why should some, to Camus at least, slightly royal chick of bumfuck island be able to convince him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Well, Lorenz is a guy that actually loves his country rather than merely the idea of loving his country. So that's a big difference. And given Camus has feelings for Nyna Caeda can't accidentally seduce him like with some other characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Not to mention, Lorenz is friends with Mostyn and knew Caeda when she was a child, so that also helped to be convinced. But yeah, Camus was not going to be swayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I want to say "yes" but the actual answer is no. If Nyna couldn't convince Camus, Caeda had no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth 64 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) First off, Camus is definitely has loyalty towards to his kingdom and he didn't want to risk Medeus get in hold of Grust since Grust is in a bad shape in War of Shadows. Lorenz didn't get the same experience with Camus from BS Archanea Saga. And second, Camus pretty much has no connection towards Caeda nor anyone from Talys unlike Lorenz had. Third, I definitely think Caeda wouldn't convince Camus to change sides since Camus's defeat was purpose to be washed up to the shores at Valentia with a memory loss as Zeke and come back to Archanea as Sirius after Alm reclaim Valentia from Duma. If Camus was convinced by Caeda in a different way, I definitely think he wouldn't be washed up to the shores at Valentia, founded by Tatiana, nor come back as Sirius. (He might show up as Camus instead of Sirius) I think the Jerome would bring harm to the peoples from Rigelian Village when Zeke isn't present, and I think Jerome wouldn't put Tatiana in danger with any of the witches (since the reason she was kidnapped for getting Zeke's life in danger) nor I don't think Tatiana would get involved joining the army without Zeke appeared in her life. Also, I think the romance between Camus vs. Hardin would be hard for Nyna since Tatiana is the new lover for Zeke while Nyna married to Hardin and it didn't turn out well in Mystery of the Emblem. Edited July 16, 2023 by King Marth 64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyBeans Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 The contrast to Camus and Lorenz you pointed out is more of a credit to their character rather than Caeda's charisma, even though she is good at what she does. Lorenz, while not nearly as renowned as Camus, has had a way longer career and service to Grust, yet he is willing to throw it all a way for the best of his kingdom. Camus straight up admits to Nyna that he doesn't want to throw away his life's work as a knight, he is a good guy in a sense, but his pride gets the better of him even though he knows what the right choice is. I am glad you pointed that out though, not many people realize the contrasting perspectives on knighthood these two display in the same chapter, it actually makes Lorenz out to be really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Caeda convinces Castor, Navarre, Roger, and Lorentz, so.... it's worth a shot. She can be surprisingly persuasive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 23 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Caeda convinces Castor, Navarre, Roger, and Lorentz, so.... it's worth a shot. She can be surprisingly persuasive. There are some differences in those cases, though. She actually knows Castor and Lorenz, Navarre has a "no hurting women" policy, and Roger is sexually attracted to her. Camus has none of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelerate Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said: There are some differences in those cases, though. She actually knows Castor and Lorenz, Navarre has a "no hurting women" policy, and Roger is sexually attracted to her. Camus has none of that. Doesn't Navarre tried to hurt Lena? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Icelerate said: Doesn't Navarre tried to hurt Lena? Nope, he doesn´t really say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Nope, he doesn´t really say anything. But Julian and Lena start out the chapter running from his forces. While Navarre might not practically have a chance to attack and kill Lena, his comrades certainly do. 9 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said: There are some differences in those cases, though. She actually knows Castor and Lorenz, Navarre has a "no hurting women" policy, and Roger is sexually attracted to her. Camus has none of that. Hey, we never know! She turned on Roger in one conversation, so perhaps she could achieve the same with Camus? He's been known to fall in love suddenly, as with Tatiana in Valentia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: But Julian and Lena start out the chapter running from his forces. While Navarre might not practically have a chance to attack and kill Lena, his comrades certainly do. Navarre isn´t his comrades, I read nothing to imply he has any sway over their actions. And they held her captive and didn´t appear to harm her to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Hey, we never know! She turned on Roger in one conversation, so perhaps she could achieve the same with Camus? He's been known to fall in love suddenly, as with Tatiana in Valentia. To be fair, if we take her old portrait from Gaiden as any indication, Tatiana was likely meant to look similar to Nyna enough for Camus to subconsciously latch on to that, at first at least. Even if not, it still only happened because of his amnesia. I'm pretty sure if he hadn't lost his memories, he would've not fallen for Tatiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said: Even if not, it still only happened because of his amnesia. I'm pretty sure if he hadn't lost his memories, he would've not fallen for Tatiana. Hard to say. We know that he regains his memories, causing him to return to Archanea as Sirius... but then he returns to Valentia, to be with Tatiana. So, he clearly still loves her, despite remembering Nyna. But perhaps he wouldn't have fallen into love with her, had he remembered Nyna from the start. Who knows? 2 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Navarre isn´t his comrades, I read nothing to imply he has any sway over their actions. Huh, maybe not. I always interpreted Navarre as being in charge of that particular squad, but the game never specifies as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Hard to say. We know that he regains his memories, causing him to return to Archanea as Sirius... but then he returns to Valentia, to be with Tatiana. So, he clearly still loves her, despite remembering Nyna. But perhaps he wouldn't have fallen into love with her, had he remembered Nyna from the start. Who knows? It's worth to point he spent almost an entire year with his memories before returning to Archanea. It was likely the news of the revolt in Grust that prompted him to go back, to ensure the safety of the royal children. And that's the thing. Him returning to Valentia is a sign that he had moved on. It wasn't his choice, but during his time with amnesia he basically created a new life for himself, one he can't just abandon. It shows that only something that extreme may make him choose someone else over Nyna. So... it's not happening that Caeda could have any success. Not without changing things A LOT. Still, ultimately, it's kinda irrelevant who Camus loves, since it was proven that it wasn't enough to make him change his mind. The only way he would've changed sides was if King Ludwig had done the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Naut Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 The only way she's convincing Camus to switch sides is if she dangles Jubelo and Yuliya in front of him... semi-literally. Their hostage situation is what kept Grust under Dolhr's thumb, and the key difference between him and Lorenz was how much importance they placed on the royal bloodline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Caeda obviously could have convinced Camus- to die! Forged Wing Spear baby, let's go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 On 8/4/2023 at 3:44 AM, AnonymousSpeed said: Caeda obviously could have convinced Camus- to die! Forged Wing Spear baby, let's go! Rename to Maidenless for x10 effective damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 On 8/3/2023 at 9:44 PM, AnonymousSpeed said: Caeda obviously could have convinced Camus- to die! Forged Wing Spear baby, let's go! If you use a paragon scroll on Caeda, she can convince Camus to off himself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedan7479 Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 21 hours ago, Original Alear said: If you use a paragon scroll on Caeda, she can convince Camus to off himself... Camus: I'm out. See you next game. *jumps off the cliff* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 (edited) On 7/25/2023 at 4:00 PM, Acacia Sgt said: To be fair, if we take her old portrait from Gaiden as any indication, Tatiana was likely meant to look similar to Nyna enough for Camus to subconsciously latch on to that, at first at least. Even if not, it still only happened because of his amnesia. I'm pretty sure if he hadn't lost his memories, he would've not fallen for Tatiana. That's something I never picked up on, and it makes a tonne of sense. Tatiana is a Nyna look alike. I guess even in their current artworks they do have a similarily shaped face, but something like that could have been leaned into more. On 8/4/2023 at 2:44 AM, AnonymousSpeed said: Caeda obviously could have convinced Camus- to die! Forged Wing Spear baby, let's go! The True Narrative of Shadow Dragon. Edited August 14, 2023 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 54 minutes ago, Jotari said: The True Narrative of Shadow Dragon. EMERGENT NARRATIVE GANG LET'S GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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