Ottservia

ok thanks now to run with my idea

@TheSilentChloey question so does the main character of the story have to lose something for someone else? Or can it just be a different character? The sacrifice is still gonna have impact on the story just the main character isn’t really gonna “lose anything” in the end.

Of the ones I've completed I gotta say SoV. The story is just awful, the characters are about as boring and bland as stale bread, and the less we say about swamp, boat, and desert maps the better. Aside from good presentation, world building, and some interesting mechanics(like the weapon system and weapon skills) I just can't say I can anything even remotely redeemable about this game for me. Also Corrin is a better lord than Alm.

I agree with this obviously there is a balance that needs to be had. Obviously writer's don't have 100% over how their stories will be interpreted. The best they can do is use what tools and skills they have to make their messages as clear as possible and convey that to the audience. It really is a two way streak. What an author intends to convey and what an author intends to convey vs what they actually conveyed can be entirely separate things. For example echoes. That story wants to tell a tale about classism and how one's bloodline does not matter to a man's worth but that with the way the story is written that overall theme is contradicted through various events that happen in the plot(Royal sword, Alm being secretly royalty, the rigelian vault, the prophecy, the brand both Alm and Celica have, etc.) Structurally the overall plot is sound however thematically it is a mess in all sorts of ways to which I could write an entire essay about but that's besides the point. In that I consider SoV's story to be awful cause I don't care how structurally sound the story is. If you contradict the very thing that structure is in service to then yeah that's not good. The plot/characters and themes of the story go together like oil and water. They only detract from each other which in my opinion makes the story just terrible. In regards to fates while structurally it's a bit messy, I can at least understand why they made the narrative decisions they did cause on a thematic level it does make sense and the plot itself does not contradict this theme. It may be a forced and hamifisted way of showing it but at the very least it makes sense to the story's themes and ideas. It doesn't detract from them therefore I wouldn't say it's terrible. Like I said stories are inherently contrived and unrealistic it's just a matter of how much you're willing to overlook for the sake of a story being able to explore it's own themes and ideas. Fair enough and I agree with this. No idea is a bad idea when it comes to fiction if you ask me. Execution is all that matters. Who knows I could be completely wrong here. I won't know unless I replay through the story(which I'm doing right now) and gather the evidence. either that or the devs outright say it in an interview or something but considering the what I've found so far that does seem like the story they were trying to tell. The whole point of the chapter 6 from a thematic standpoint imo is all about trust rather than the surface "blood vs bond". Who do you think is lying? In that moment Corrin needs to side with whoever they believe is telling the truth but they have reason to doubt and trust both sides equally. Who is the real enemy? is the biggest question of that choice as far as I can tell anyway. Again maybe I'll have to do a full analysis of this story at some point but I do think fates does at least try to deliver a well constructed narrative about "finding the truth"

ok the idea I have is gonna be a fun one and extremely self-indulgent. Himederes are cute cause essentially they're just a highly specific kind of tsundere and those are fun.

Are we just gonna ignore the fact that my previous entry was basically what this prompt was. Not saying that’s a bad thing just liked to bring that up

I have a couple ideas going on in my head. A couple super angsty and depressing and a couple that are light hearted and cute. Which to choose?

you got that right. I feel the exact same way. Severa is a character that honestly just feels so real. Everything about her character to me is just so relatable and the struggles and hardships she faces are very realistic and grounded. Like I'm sure most if not all of us can relate to that feeling of being just not good enough on some level. I know I can. I've spoken about why I like her so much before but tl;dr Severa is a character that reminds me I'm not alone in my hardships and I just want her to feel the same way. She's just a very tightly written and grounded character. One of the best FE characters if you ask me. Which is why it irks me so much when people write her off as "just a cliche tsundere". same man same. It's just very satisfying to see her walls break like that because normally she's so abrasive the sudden contrast is immensly satisfying. It feels genuine coming from her and not the abrasive mask she wears. That's really the appeal of tsundere characters in general really. I agree on the pairing thing too which is why I ship RobinxCordelia. It just works so well. It also adds to the somewhat foil relationship between her and Lucina because those two similar enough as is. There's a reason why people ship the two so much(myself included). god damnit I already wrote a piece that fit this prompt exactly the round before this one. *sigh* Oh well I think I can come up with something new for this one though

you do have a point and I agree to an extent however my main point(which I probably should've made more clear) is that a story's structure is in service to it's themes not the other way around. Like let's say you have character whose arc centers around the idea of not understanding what true strength is and the narrative theme is that true strength comes from protecting something precious. One (relatively obvious) way is to contrive a scenario where he must fight and lose to someone who does understand that or make him lose to some random guy with his same ideals because of his own selfishness. In order for the theme to function you need to contrive a plot point for that to happen. does that make sense? Again stories are inherently contrived and unrealistic. Again I never said I didn't think plot holes/contrivances were entirely irrelevant but when you think about they don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. When did I ever say there was any kind of "theme hierarchy" I never said anything like that. In fact I said the opposite. Every single theme and idea explored within any given number of stories has some kind of value. It's just a matter of execution really. Now what makes "good execution"? is the bigger question here. You're just putting words in my mouth here. when did I ever say one "idea" is better than another? cause if if I've learned anything from my time as a writer is that there is no such thing as a bad idea in regards to story telling just bad execution. Now here you bring a really good point which goes back to my question of "what is good execution?. I mean to bring up an example from persona 4(spoilers):

I have to say I disagree with this. Let me raise you both a question. What is a story if not just an expression of ideas that an author pulls from reality? think about it writing is a form of art which is a form of expression. Why does a painter paint? a dancer dance? why does a composer compose music? Why does an author write stories? Well it's to express themselves and their views on the world around them. Art in essence is just a conveyance of an artist's perception of reality. Drawing/painting is a way to capture the "beauty" of what they see and the emotions they feel when they see it and then to convey those emotions on a blank canvas. Every stroke of a brush/pen, every word typed/written, every note played, etc. is usually all in service to some central idea that an artist is trying to convey. If a painter wants to paint something that is dreary and melancholic then they'll likely use very dark colors like black or indigo to try and invoke that feeling in those who view it. Writing is the same way. If a writer wants to tell a story about how loneliness is the worse form of human suffering then they'll write scenarios and characters that pertain to that idea. They'll maybe write a character who has been rejected by society for things outside the realm of their control and how that experience has effected them and maybe they'll have another character who isn't "alone" in a literal sense but feels emotionally isolated. The narrative could explore the differences and similarities between these characters and how they overcome their loneliness by sharing their pain with one another because they both know what its like to be alone even if it's not entirely the same. It is those ideas and themes that make a story. Stories are built around these ideas and everything in the story is in service to conveying those ideas. In that sense stories are inherently contrived to fit the narrative themes the author wants to explore. So I guess my question is: What exactly is plot structure? does plot contrivance matter if a story is able to use it to convey it's overall theme? I mean I don't think plot contrivance is entirely irrelevant but I dunno it's weird.

The idea is further expanded on in conquest where you learn that the thing you’ve been fighting this whole time isn’t actually the real Garon but in truth was nothing more than a facade. Some kind of malicious force using whatever was left of garon’s body as a skin puppet to deceive everyone into embarking on this terrible war. Though the ending is still unsatisfactory because well you’re still left with the question of “what exactly was that malicious force? And what does it want?” You learn a little more about the “truth” but not the whole truth leaving you with a false peace and a dead truth(i.e Azura). You still chose the “incorrect path” so once again you are not rewarded by the narrative. That’s a fair enough assessment Anankos is a weird entity in all this in that I can’t seem to fully comprehend how well he fits into this theme quite yet. His title of “the silent dragon” though is a decent indicator on where to start. I’ll have to do a full analysis of this story when I’m finished with this current playthrough.

The thing about that though is that most if not all narrative themes can be summarized in a single sentence. “Themes” are inherently simple. Persona 4, for example tackles the exact same themes as fates(finding the truth) which can be summarized in a single sentence but what makes it complex or deep are all the ways it explores that theme. Y’know all the little nuances that pile on and on and add layers upon layers to the overall narrative until it all culminates into a cohesive whole. Everything within that narrative all relates to that core idea from its characters, villains, plot points, world, and even gameplay mechanics to a degree. Simple as it may sound on the surface, you’d be surprised by the sheer amount of ways even a “theme” as simple as “the power of friendship” can be explored within a single story. Hell the "themes" of some of the most deep and complex can summarized in a single word let alone sentence. Persona 5 may not be a single word but you can summarize that game's themes and ideas in exactly two words "societal reform". So I don't think that's it. I will agree that execution is most important of all but when you get right down to it does a minor inconsistency with the plot really matter in the grand scheme of the overall themes and ideas that the narrative is opt to explore. I will always stand by the mantra that you should always critique a story for what it wants to be not for you think it should be like if a story is about "finding the truth" and every plot point is in service to that idea without contradicting itself then there shouldn't really be much of an issue if you ask me. I mean Garon is often criticized as being a garbage villain which to be fair he kind of is with very lackluster motives and backstory and has very little impact on the story as a whole but when you think about it within the greater context of the story's overall theme of "finding the truth" perhaps that was intentional. Garon in this story is supposed to be a red herring. Someone who seems like the true bad guy but isn't so in a way him being an unsatisfying villain actually adds to the overall themes and nuances of the story. Like he's supposed to be a shitty villain because he's not the true villain thereby when you do beat him you're supposed to feel unsatisfied that's kind of the idea. His defeat should not feel rewarding from a narrative standpoint and it isn't so in that sense I would ironically consider him a good villain because he fulfills his role in the story well. I guess my main question here is how big of plot hole/contrivance are you willing to overlook for the sake of a narrative exploring it's own themes and ideas?

So I've been thinking about fates's story a lot recently and I've recently begun to replay of it and one thing that has stuck out to me is how in terms of overall plot structure it's a little bit of a mess but then when you look at certain plot points from a thematic standpoint it makes perfect sense. Take chapter 15 of conquest for example. Now the more I think about it the more I begin to realize fates is a story about "seeking the truth" and conquest in particular plays with the idea of finding the truth through lies. It happens a lot through most of the story where lies and deception are used to help further the plot. Chapter 15 is really weird in this regard because from a plot perspective it makes absolutely zero sense why Azura would not tell Corrin everything about Anankos and Valla right then and there but if you wanna look at it from a thematic angle, one could make the argument that Azura intentionally withheld that information and Lied to Corrin to feed them nuggets of the truth but not the entire truth because they chose to side Nohr one of the "incorrect paths" that will not lead to the truth therefore they cannot be rewarded narratively for that decision so Azura only gives them a kernel of the truth. I guess what I'm saying here is that thematically hit works but from the perspective of the overall plot structure it's a bit messy. But which one is more important? What do you all think?

I mean personally I think that's when all writing is at it's best because it comes from a genuine place the writer is all too familiar with. Writing, like all forms of art, is form of expression. It's a way to express how you feel about the world around you. Things you observe like the everyday struggles of different people and their circumstances, the sensations you feel as you walk around the peaceful forest or a bustling city, the emotions you experience from different events and hardship, etc. all these things culminate together and are fully expressed through your writing in some shape or form. Writing in essence is basically just an author's conveyance of their perception of reality. There's a reason why one of the most common forms of writing advice is "write what you know". Anyway sorry for going on a tangent that's just how I feel about these sorts of things.

I don't think Garon is a shit villain. Yeah you read that correctly. Ok he is a bad villain but I'm starting to wonder if that was actually the point because in essence he's supposed to be a red herring so him being unsatisfying to beat and overcome is the entire point so maybe Garon being a bad villain is intentional which actually makes him a "good" villain ironically enough