[The Making of Fire Emblem - Fates Information]

What's sad is that the incest example with Leon could have been used to bolster and explore the family theme of the game, playing with his feelings of alienation and attributing these feelings that come natural to him (and by extension other feelings) as flat out taboo or unwanted. Were this the only example of incest in the game and the general tone of the game not hampered down by fan service and fetishes, the concept could have been tackled in an engaging or even tragic way without flat-out pandering.

It's no surprise people are immediately jumping on this realization when the rest of the game's incest is blatant pandering for Kamui. It was something that was present but not really felt enough to articulate, whereas the My Room shenanigans are something very blatant, shameless, and detrimental to the game's themes. Since the former was discovered after the permeating presence of the latter, it's difficult not to associate the two.

This game never ceases to amaze with what lost potential lies within. Unbelievable.

[Fates Fanfiction Central (Spoilers)]

[spoiler=FE Fates Fanfiction Survey]

What routes are you working on? Is it an amalgamation of all three? Is it an alternate universe style retelling?

My interpretation of Fates is a work that branches into three paths so that the reader has the choice on which path to pick. The work is divided up as such:

Pre-Split: Of Fates and Threads

Hoshido: Without Beginning or End

Nohr: The Wisdom by Their Wit to Lose

Invisible Kingdom: The Flames of Conflict Shall Once More Scorch the Land

The collective work is intended to be, shall I say, "malicious" toward the game and its fanbase, and as such each route takes its concepts to their logical extreme. This is the player's choice on the matter.

What notable changes would you make to the plot?

-Are problematic elements (the curse, the magic throne, the crystal ball, operation tears, Nohr and Hoshido being too black and white, everything Aqua does) going to be addressed?

Many of these elements have been either adjusted or cut. For example, the magic throne and the curse have been retooled for other purposes, whereas the crystal ball and the romp through the void to get it have been removed entirely. "Operation Tears" has been heavily revised to give a tad more justification to its existence than just "let's make Kamui sad." The Nohr route in general has been heavily, heavily revamped.

Nohr and Hoshido's "black and white" theme is being explored in cultural clashes rather than making one side the blatantly "correct" choice. Less "good Hoshidans", more kagura and Kamui's inability to understand it.

Aqua's role is heavily modified and I will say no more.

-Are there any themes to be communicated over each route?

While each arc has its own separate "themes", elements of both routes' themes can be found in one another due to the Yin-Yang nature of the narrative.

Hoshido's themes are isolation, love, and spirituality.

Nohr's themes are communication, suffering, and secularism.

IK's themes are unity, family, continuity, and mythology. The Void

-What is the overall direction and "point" of each route?

As mentioned above, each route takes its side to the logical extreme in an attempt to make the reader regret picking it. Much of this can only be experienced by actually reading it, so I will refrain from more details.

What notable changes would you make to the characters?

-What is Kamui all about (background, personality, abilities)?

Corrin (or Kamui to her Hoshido brethren) is a character who is trapped between the masculine and the feminine, a half-dragon who suffers from memory alterations made on her by Garon to deter her from rebelling to Hoshido. She has dreams of a girl and a song that hearkens back to some long-forgotten past, but dwelling on it causes her pain. She is the only one with full mastery of Dragon's Vein, which makes her an invaluable tool for war.

-What are the Hoshidan and Nohrian siblings all about (personalities, roles in the plot)?

To note particular discrepancies, Hinoka is a Nobunaga figure in the making, testing Ryouma's patience by ignoring cultural norms. Her retainers are those that society would normally cast down and forget, and she is the first to unquestioningly accept Kamui back, Nohrian tendencies and all. Leon is a devastating tactician, and serves a role similar to August in the Nohr path. Camilla's incest/motherly disposition is skewed based on the route.

To fix the issue of the sisters and their lack of importance to the plot, the Dragon's Vein ability has been split up into its four elements of the Wu Xing and distributed amongst the eight siblings. While the brothers hold domain over the weapons, most of the dragon's vein abilities belong to the sisters.

Water: Marx

Wood: Camilla
Fire: Hinoka

Metal: Sakura

Takumi, Leon, and Ryouma do not have Dragon's Vein but are proficient in their weapons. Marx is the only one to hold both a Dragon's Vein and a weapon, and it is because of this that Garon cannot lose his trust.

Elise does not have a Dragon's Vein, but is the only one with access to the Bifrost staff.

-What changes will be made to minor characters?

Many. While the majority of characters will be preserved as best they can, some changes have been implemented to serve the themes as well as define character interactions/establish lore.

What notable changes would you make to the setting?

-What ideas do you have for world building? What kind of history does this continent have?

This will mostly be left up in the air, but the more one knows about music and culture the more they will be able to glean from it.

-What is the balance of natural and supernaturual elements?

Depends on the route. Most of the supernatural elements are often connected with human elements, but mythology and history plays an important role.

-Are the Faceless and invisible enemies in your story?

The Faceless have been removed completely. Invisible enemies only appear in certain contexts.

Do any characters die?

Yes, but whether they follow the game or not I'll leave up in the air.

Do you introduce any new characters?

Not a single character appears in this that isn't from a Fire Emblem game. Too many characters to begin with.

Are any characters going to be cut?

Children, primarily, though not all of them. As many characters have been kept as possible.

Now I just have to finish writing the damn thing.

[Fates Fanfiction Central (Spoilers)]

I got your PM, NekoKnight. For the most part, I'm trying to be secretive about what I'm doing aside from with a few people, but I'll think about how much I do feel like sharing in public.

Somewhat similar to this, but I'll put together a filled out survey soon.

[Any guilty confessions?]

Negative confessions in 3

2

1

-I literally have so much vitriol for this game that I'm creating a fanfiction that specifically makes the reader regret purchasing it. I don't know how the hell I got here, but it sure as hell didn't start out that way.

-I want them to release Spotpass to add Mikoto, Garon, Iago, Lilith, Shenmei, and Anankos Sumeragi as marriage candidates. They've broken the game this far, so why stop now? Might as well turn the game into a full-on farce.

[Fire Emblem is having an identity crisis.]

I would say that Fates' issues with tone or failing to imitate past games can be traced back to Awakening. Awakening wasn't much better when it came to how ridiculous the Grimleal were.

I would agree with that. The "identity crisis" was more of a factor in Awakening, and this game is merely the aftermath. The messy, messy aftermath.

[Fire Emblem is having an identity crisis.]

It's less of an identity crisis and more of Kibayashi's narrative clashing with the collective tone and gameplay. The general idea of what the developers want Fire Emblem to be is quite clear through the steadier and steadier integration of the avatar character. A streamlined anime where you, the player, get to run around and make decisions and get married to whoever you want regardless of story context. Genealogy would meet that sort of logic with fire, as would many other games in the series.

I'm not saying that the older games were perfect. Far from it, in fact. But when I look at Fates I see a halfhearted attempt at exploring the same concepts as Gaiden and Thracia but with all these unnecessary extraneous elements thrown in for the sake of making the player feel important. Thirty years from now, I will look upon Fates and still be disappointed that it threw panties and needless incest and player worship in my face expecting me to be pleased. The original Fire Emblem games were about the cruelty of war and the struggles humankind has with itself again and again. With Fates one gets the impression that after every battle you can take some stress off by touching your fellow soldiers' faces and they'll let you do it because "hey, it's you, so why not?"

[What subject do you study?]

Working toward a BA in Music Composition. Focus is on tonal harmony and structure, particularly in orchestral settings, with a splash of jazz theory, electronic programming, tuba performance, and ethnomusicology. 'S a lonely major that receives blank stares occasionally.

On the side, I write literature and study the craft of storytelling. Not nearly as lonely.

[Issues with the Nohr path story line?]

For starters, I will admit that, yes, I am kind of disappointed in the story

Realistically speaking, I would say they could have written a better story

There are a few "issues" so to speak, with writing a better story

(1): If the story is "too" good, then people would be inclined to "buy nohr", which would sort of defeat the balance between the two games

(2): The story has to make sense with hoshido as well, so they have to write both routes together

(3): It's kind of the same, but the story has to make sense with invisible kingdom as well, so if they wanted to revamp one route, they'd have to revamp all three

It's hard to say really..

It's funny you say that, because Aqua's inability to deliver critical information in the Nohr route either tells really, really shady things about her character, contradicts interpretations from the other routes, or both depending on your analysis of her "character." The plot hole actually makes the route less cohesive with the other two routes, so I don't understand why a worse written story "makes sense" with the other routes. Unless all three stories are poorly written, in which case you'll still irritate those interested in the plot because of a lack of quality storytelling.

[Still hyped?]

What could have been an engaging game has quickly turned into something I could never take seriously. I have little faith in Nintendo's translation team as of late, especially considering what little we've seen of name changes and localization.

Good gameplay is not enough to satisfy me, so my money is best spent elsewhere.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Could you post what you'very written down so far Party Moth? Since you're apparently past the point of finishing you're rewrite's symbolism, character fixes, etc.

Sure, though I'll try to paraphrase as much as I can. Everything I've put together so far is spread across over 26 pages worth of documents, Google docs, and a notebook. It might also take some time to condense into something readable, so bear with me as I break this down across a post or three throughout the weekend.

1. Background Info

[spoiler=Necessary Info About Awakening]

Necessary info about Awakening

My current project that has been in the works is a reinterpretation of Fire Emblem Awakening titled A Monarch’s Awakening. The intended goal of the project is to be a more articulated tale that compiles a larger and more cohesive “best of” from the series while at the same time questioning what makes Fire Emblem Fire Emblem. Focus is given to reworking character arcs and giving more world building to each of the nations and their geography/culture, as these nuances were completely lacking in the original. The project is split into three parts that follow the general outline of the game’s story while diverging from it gradually with each installment. Each part is titled with the stages of butterfly development, as the concept is based around the theme of transformation (from caterpillar to monarch butterfly) while reflecting the change the series is currently undergoing. They are as follows:

Beginning Instars: Gangrel Arc that sticks the closest to the original game, though alterations become noticeable as early as the prologue (“Southtown” becomes a port town named after Shadow Dragon’s Port Warren). As this is the beginning of the tale, the title is that of early instar phases of a caterpillar. Emphasis is placed on the inability of Chrom and Gangrel to move on from their past, and how they clash as a result. Notable major changes include Robin's character rewritten to be stubborn and apathetic toward others, giving a similar impression as that of someone with antisocial personality disorder. This is intended to establish Robin as stunted mentally from the trauma of losing her memories and to make the true relationships and bonds she eventually makes all the more worthwhile.

Chrysalis of Clay: Valm Arc that begins to diverge more prominently than the previous arc. Characters’ mistakes and flaws begin to catch up to them, and their faith in one another is tested as the true plot is lying dormant, as if a chrysalis upon a tree. Emphasis is placed on the values dissonance between Chrom and Walhart as rulers, and the concept of divine right (he who is chosen by the gods is destined to be king) is mentioned and discussed. Notable major changes include modifications to Walhart's backstory and character, as well as Tiki's extended role in the narrative as a whole. Valm was a heavily underdeveloped arc in the game and much has gone into salvaging and connecting it to the main story line.

The Blackest Wings: The final arc, which I consider “careens toward the sun in a glorious blaze of wtf.” Here, Fire Emblem’s concept of divine right is tackled full on and the past comes back to haunt the characters who have long forgotten the history of the weapons they wield and the monsters they face. Chrom's character arc comes full circle, from having to claim his divine title in the first arc, defending it from critics and opposition in the second arc, to finally questioning its true purpose and meaning in the third. So too does Robin face her own destiny and the choices she has made thus far. The title has multiple meanings, from the emergence of the butterfly to the shadow of Grima’s wings covering the land. This is the part which I believe will test the readers the most, as it involves concepts present in previous Fire Emblem games but were only cheaply imitated in Awakening. These concepts rely on a somewhat intimate knowledge of the lore of the first five Fire Emblem titles, as this piece continues to develop ideas posed in them.

The importance of all this information lies in the general tone, message, and alterations presented by the story, which involves attempting to deconstruct some of the concepts the series has carried with it until Awakening. While the new game is criticized, so too are some of the older concepts of prior games in an attempt to bridge the gap between them. The ultimate message, something I conceived while trying to reconcile with Awakening's concepts with that of the older games, is that there is hope for the series despite its flaws. In this sense, Awakening is not necessarily slammed or shamed but inspected and criticized for what it did right and wrong.

The current draft of this is not yet public, as I work slowly and prefer to release content when there is a substantial amount (a finished story arc, for example).

It's quite early in the morning now and my laptop's cord is failing me. Considering my luck with computers, I'm not surprised at this point. I will return tomorrow to compile the general concepts, symbolism, and character alterations that bleed across all three paths of Of Fates and Threads.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Oh yeah, I've seen the playthroughts. *Shudder*

Edit: As a side note, we've talked a lot about rewriting Fates, but has anyone actually started? I'd be interested in reading them if anyone has.

Finally organizing everything (themes, structure, character rewriting, symbolism, etc.) to the point where writing can soon commence. However, I write at a snail's pace, hampered down further by work and schooling, so don't expect too much immediately.

However, I too look forward to where everyone is taking this narrative. There are multiple ways to fix this story, and it's becoming clearer and clearer that some of us deviate further than others.

[English localisations - Names & Such]

As can be seen in the Treehouse footage from E3, Gunter's name is still localized as Gunter, not Gunther.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Speaking of AU fics, how is your rewrite coming along Party Moth?

Coming along, though the Invisible History DLC changed everything. This outline is quickly getting out of hand; I initially wanted to post everything, with each section closed off by separate spoiler tags. However, now I've gotten to the point where I want to see this through and it's developed into a whole new monster, so for the moment I'll just post the titles for all the parts:

Pre-Split: Of Fates and Threads

Hoshido: Without Beginning or End

Nohr: The Wisdom By Their Wit to Lose

IK: The Flames of Conflict (Shall Once More Scorch the Land)

The first title is the title for the entire project, and the other three are quotes that hold relevance to each path. As I've mentioned before, this project is a tad malicious toward the fanbase/game and the content of each path reflects that in different ways. Keep that in mind as information is trickled out.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Well, the black vs white decision helps emphasize the conflict IS decided to focus on, so from a writing standpoint, it makes sense.

Whether or not it was the better theme to focus on is purely personal preference.

The Black vs. White theme is a play on Yin and Yang, as can be seen with the images here: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57162&p=3988231

A competent writer would have taken the two kingdoms and played with the presence or lack thereof of certain qualities between the two nations. These qualities would not have necessarily been "good" or "evil" qualities outright but instead cultural mindsets and leanings that would push the two to clash. They would have even added subtle hints through world building and dialogue that the two kingdoms have connecting qualities both sides are too worked up to even notice. Sort of, like....every other Fire Emblem game, though the Tellius games and Thracia come to mind in particular.

This could have been a great opportunity to present two separate cultures connected by deep roots to a past long forgotten, but it is squandered for plot holes and cardboard cut-out settings. There were clearly good ideas put into this game (a lot of the symbolism is very intriguing conceptually) but the push for heavy fanservice shows where the "focus" of the developers was.

Which is why everyone and their mom is working out an AU fic.

[Invisible History DLC Full Story Summary]

Thanks for translating this.

As to the content...No words.

[OST Discussion]

I'm not a fan. Damn near every single track forces the main notes of Aqua's song into it. Conversation tracks, battle tracks, map tracks. Fucking everything. It's just bad.

I wouldn't mind it so much if, as I've posted before, it was actually used to its full potential, but they just feel the need to quote the original melody with no retrogrades or inversions. It doesn't help that the melody by itself doesn't lend itself to a strict tonal structure. At least Awakening actually used its three identities in creative ways.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Sorry for the late reply; the outline is coming along. Biggest roadblock currently is due to pending Invisible Kingdom DLC.

I can give a short answer to that here, but the outline would explain it more in-depth. To give a basic summary, Kamui faces culture shock in Hoshido and while some of the siblings try to help out with integrating into the culture, the rest of the Hoshidans are less friendly about it as they are less social in general. There's also latent bigotry that becomes more and more present the closer to the Nohrian capital they go.

Nohr, on the other hand, is more of a Thracia callback, and strong camaraderie amongst the lower classes is one of the ways that they cope with the poor crops. While there are often good intentions amongst the ill actions of the nobility, Kamui must become aware of the wolves amongst the flock or suffer the consequences.

Both are designed to have pros and cons with the concept of Yin and Yang in mind, though occasionally there are overlaps that connect the two societies. Can't have them be the perfect exact opposites of each other, after all.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Currently, have you decided what to do about the "WE NOT BLOOD RELATE" twist? Does your rewrite even have Hydra?

Right now, I'm settled on Sakura and Takumi being half-siblings with Kamui, as Kamui needs to have at least some connection through bloodline. Kamui's relation to Ryouma and Hinoka is not set in stone, and largely relies on where I take Mikoto's character arc.

Hydra is currently set to be included, but his execution is one of the aspects that's taking more time to plan out. He's a mess as portrayed in-game, though I do like some of the nuances present (such as each follower being symbolic of his many heads and namesake).

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

To Party Moth: How is your outline of a Fates rewrite coming along? I'm just curious.

Anyway, my question about Hydra was rhetorical. Hydra's background and cause is a damn mess. He comes off as a twisted mishmash of Grima and Duma.

It's coming along about as quickly as I can put it together (about 3,000 words at the moment). Currently looking into the mythological references present in the game such as the Wǔ Xíng and how they can be played with.

[Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)]

Hydra is implied to be insane at this point and suffering from the degeneration.

But yes he does have some goal. Mankind forgot his existence and everything he did for them (The founding of both nations, the dragon's blood in their veins, likely those legendary weapons since Nohr Dragon uses an attack similar to Brunhilde) and there was some vow about how mankind should never forget.

So he decided to destroy the world and everyone in it!

There are also hints that Hydra in the past may have known what would happen to him due to seeing the future. So he's gone out of his way to set things up to kill himself when he's gone crazy. The prophecy bits that Aqua sings, the legendary weapons including Yato, Kamui's very existence, etc.

So, basically, a particularly awful version of Doma?

[What Fire Emblem game has your favorite soundtrack?]

Sauce? The tracks possibly were produced using some digital music composition software, I think.

If it sounds like it could be performed by a live orchestra if you notated it on sheet music, then it's probably orchestrated.

Every game in the series uses digital composition software. None of them have used truly convincing samples so far other than the exception of Awakening, which muddles it with live soloists on occasion. As for the Tellius games and Fates, I shouldn't have to elaborate on vocal soloists and how they're not digital samples... But Fates' shoddy orchestration and mixing makes it clear that it's unbelievably fake.

[Do you think they'll rewrite the story in the dub and upcoming Manga?]

Do I think the story will be re-written? Nope. But I at least think passing judgement on the localization concerning dialogue flow when what we saw was a translation that was clearly very raw is being a bit too negative; it seems for all intents and purposes the localization had just started before E3. I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to expect the dialogue to be smoothed out over the next six months.

I don't believe what we saw at E3 is the final product in terms of localization, but this game has proven me wrong in at least twenty instances throughout the past four months so I can't help but express some serious concern over the localization. I must also note that "smoothing" the dialogue out will not fix the problems with it, only present it in a less awkward fashion. But then again, who knows, maybe the localization will be the pinnacle of Fire Emblem translations for years to come. Anything is possible with this game, I suppose.

[Do you think they'll rewrite the story in the dub and upcoming Manga?]

And we've seen not quite three full chapters. Wait until it's released to pass judgement.

And from the three chapters of the localization we've seen, there's been awkward wording and characterization. They're not planning on meandering too far away from the original translation and the dialogue in many pivotal scenes reads awkwardly (see: Camilla) because of it.

Corrin: I'm out of my league. I have no choice... I'll have to use my Dragonstone.

Faceless: Grrraaaaargh!

Corrin: Dammit! I'm surrounded. I'm in deep trouble now. There's no way I can transform in time.

There's so many problems with the above line I'm not even going to begin.

Pepper's post was concerned with whether they would take the plot in better directions or change the dialogue to flow better, and we've seen no evidence of either so far. I'm not about to hold my breath for it.

[Do you think they'll rewrite the story in the dub and upcoming Manga?]

As for the dub I'm not too sure on what will go on if Treehouse will make the story flow better or something.

Judging from what little we've seen of the Treehouse localization so far, I wouldn't count on it.

[What Fire Emblem game has your favorite soundtrack?]

Uh, no. Neither game features an actual orchestra, they just uses sound libraries like lots of other GCN games.

As for the best game, I would give it to FE3. That's the game where the music really came into its own for the series, and really says FIRE EMBLEM.

The Tellius games are indeed orchestrated (written as to be performed by an orchestra), they're just not actually performed by an orchestra and instead by samples. None of the games in the series so far use actual orchestras, though they do occasionally incorporate live performers into the mixing.

As for my favorite soundtrack...anything other than FE6, FE8, and FE14. FE6 has dreadful MIDI quality which unfortunately hampers its pleasantness to the ears, and FE8 and FE14 have too much new blood composing. The result is awful orchestration and melodic composition.