What are generally considered the best pairings?

[Mekkah]

Then can "the rest of the community" tell me why Claude is a better partner?

[AceNoctali]

Noish > Claude for Fury, imo. Fee goes from "better staff utility after promotion" to "much much better melee combat for all game long", which is better for her for many obvious reasons, such as the fact that she's often flying away from the pack to save villages and kill things on her own (meaning she'll have little to heal), or the fact that it lasts for a longer time frame.

Fee is not an mere healbot when running Claude as a father. She also has access to Sleep & Silence Staves with high Mdef (due to Blagi blood), meaning she's one of the rare people in your army able to incapacitate long-range spelling and staving enemy Mages without being incapacitated herself or severly damaged. Particulary useful in the last two chapters.

That being said, having played both Fury/Claude and Fury/Noish, it's a really tough call to say with one is better, both having their strong points (I agree on the offense part with Noish of your comment, for instance).

Then at some point Celice promotes and gains lances as well as +4 str, but Delmud gets +9 skl and +6 spd, and he's also always running Charisma and Prayer versus Celice's nothing.

Celice got nothing ? What about his 3-star Leadership, which is a souped-up Charisma ? And although I fully know that it's for just a chapter only, Tyrfing has the Prayer Skill build-in as well. And Awareness, even though it's rarely put up to contribution, is damn useful at the times you need it.

[Mekkah]

Hmmm...

Fee is not an mere healbot when running Claude as a father. She also has access to Sleep & Silence Staves with high Mdef (due to Blagi blood), meaning she's one of the rare people in your army able to incapacitate long-range spelling and staving enemy Mages without being incapacitated herself or severly damaged. Particulary useful in the last two chapters.

I think this sounds nice in theory, but I fail to see the practical application. Assuming Fee promotes at the start of Ch9, there is almost literally nothing to silence/sleep that Lana or Sety couldn't just do for you. The most threatening Silence-able enemy is Musar the Mage Knight, who has 19 res, which is 1 less than Midir!Lana has at L20. Hell, if you were doing Claude/Fury, then Sety could silence him as well, which means Fee adds no real value. The main guy I would want to put to sleep is Arion, who only has 9 res, so even Noish!Sety can do that if he wanted to.

High res she does have...5 more at L20 to be exact. This is partially canceled out by Noish!Fee's 3 hp lead. I don't think Claude!Fee is avoiding any important #RKOs by magic...if she does, you must also consider the physical side (besides the aforementioned hp lead, L20 Fee has an 1-2 def lead). Again looking at Musar, he has 43 atk, meaning he does 23 damage to Claude!Fee's 42 hp. Admittedly he does 5 more to Noish!Fee, but both get 2RKOed.

Celice got nothing ? What about his 3-star Leadership, which is a souped-up Charisma ? And although I fully know that it's for just a chapter only, Tyrfing has the Prayer Skill build-in as well. And Awareness, even though it's rarely put up to contribution, is damn useful at the times you need it.

Point taken...though the point wasn't that Delmud > Celice. It's that he's on par with him at least, aka he shines about as much as one of the "near gods"

[Dat Nick]

If we were only doing worthwhile pairings for FE4 gen 2 again, I could actually see Fin Delmud above Holyn!Sword kids. He's not only winning offense most of the time since swords are light and enemy offense is lol, he's even winning concrete durability and has that mount playing in his favor.

versus Lex!Sword kids is a much harder case though

[AceNoctali]

Hmmm...

Fee is not an mere healbot when running Claude as a father. She also has access to Sleep & Silence Staves with high Mdef (due to Blagi blood), meaning she's one of the rare people in your army able to incapacitate long-range spelling and staving enemy Mages without being incapacitated herself or severly damaged. Particulary useful in the last two chapters.

I think this sounds nice in theory, but I fail to see the practical application. Assuming Fee promotes at the start of Ch9, there is almost literally nothing to silence/sleep that Lana or Sety couldn't just do for you. The most threatening Silence-able enemy is Musar the Mage Knight, who has 19 res, which is 1 less than Midir!Lana has at L20. Hell, if you were doing Claude/Fury, then Sety could silence him as well, which means Fee adds no real value. The main guy I would want to put to sleep is Arion, who only has 9 res, so even Noish!Sety can do that if he wanted to.

High res she does have...5 more at L20 to be exact. This is partially canceled out by Noish!Fee's 3 hp lead. I don't think Claude!Fee is avoiding any important #RKOs by magic...if she does, you must also consider the physical side (besides the aforementioned hp lead, L20 Fee has an 1-2 def lead). Again looking at Musar, he has 43 atk, meaning he does 23 damage to Claude!Fee's 42 hp. Admittedly he does 5 more to Noish!Fee, but both get 2RKOed.

I was thinking Fee is more useful as a Silence / Sleep staff user in Chapter 10 and Epilogue, but she still has an utility in Chapter 9 : sleeping Hannibal. Since she has more Mov and flying, she can fly straight to the block of villages at North-West, and along the way, put Hannibal to sleep in a place where no enemies can reach her without deviating much from her course, and thus facilitating Celice & horse units in rushing through Hannibal troops to Lubeck (unlike Rana & Sety who are on foot), if you're going the fastest route of taking on both Hannibal & Altenna's troops at the same time.

In Chapter 10, she's extremely useful against the Dark Mages at the very beginning and those around Miletos Castle, especially in the latter case since, because of the terrain setting preventing you to reach the enemy quickly, it's basically impossible otherwise not getting one of your units hit by a staff effect or a Hell spell.

Epilogue has also a slew of Dark Mages where it can save you time to incapacitate at least one of them when you're taking a turn to reach them to kill them, and again, Fee has that Mov and flying advantage to help. Most notable are the Dark Mages near Freege Castle, due again to the terrain (mountains and trees to cross, Lana and Sety having low Mov), especially since, if my memory isn't too rusty (please correct me if I'm wrong though, it's been one year since I last played the game), they have 17 Res ; Fee having on average at LV30 18 Mag, that's just enough to status them.

[BrightBow]

Sorry to interrupt you but above Mekkah said:

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

14 Noish!Sety w/ Lightning: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 21% Continue, 19% critical, Charge

Up there you always assumed Fee and Sety will have Continue with Noish and Claude. This is wrong. Neither of them provides them with Continue and Fury does only have Pursuit.

So in those pairings the only child with access to Continue would be Fee after promotion since Falcon Knights have Continue as a class skill.

With Continue out of the picture I think Sety will prefer Claude's high magic so he can reliable kill enemys with pursuit instead of having to depend on skills with rather unreliable activation rates. And Fee will probably prefear dealing more damage with magic swords to avoid taking counters since she will be rather fragile either way.

[TheEnd]

Sorry to interrupt you but above Mekkah said:

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

14 Noish!Sety w/ Lightning: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 21% Continue, 19% critical, Charge

Up there you always assumed Fee and Sety will have Continue with Noish and Claude. This is wrong. Neither of them provides them with Continue and Fury does only have Pursuit.

So in those pairings the only child with access to Continue would be Fee after promotion since Falcon Knights have Continue as a class skill.

Falcon Knight and Sage have Continue as class skill.

Edited September 24, 2009 by TheEnd

[BrightBow]

Sorry to interrupt you but above Mekkah said:

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

14 Noish!Sety w/ Lightning: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 21% Continue, 19% critical, Charge

Up there you always assumed Fee and Sety will have Continue with Noish and Claude. This is wrong. Neither of them provides them with Continue and Fury does only have Pursuit.

So in those pairings the only child with access to Continue would be Fee after promotion since Falcon Knights have Continue as a class skill.

Falcon Knight and Sage have Continue as class skill.

They have 30 mage, 30 speed AND Continue? I am sorry for not making proper preparations. I just couldn't grasp the possibilty of them beeing even more overpowered so I didn't bother to look. Guess this will teach me. I can't belive I had a Claude Sety once and didn't notice. In fact I was actually SURE he didn't had this ability back then.

But since the damage is already done: I don't quite get how Mekkah calculated the chances for a Continue.

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

From my unterstanding if Sety has 16 AS he would from my have a 36% percent of activating (16 for his attack speed + 20 because this game calculates Continue like this in FE4) and not 21% so could somebody plz explain the numbers above for me? I guess I got something completely wrong... again.

Edited September 24, 2009 by BrightBow-User

[TheEnd]

Sorry to interrupt you but above Mekkah said:

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

14 Noish!Sety w/ Lightning: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 21% Continue, 19% critical, Charge

Up there you always assumed Fee and Sety will have Continue with Noish and Claude. This is wrong. Neither of them provides them with Continue and Fury does only have Pursuit.

So in those pairings the only child with access to Continue would be Fee after promotion since Falcon Knights have Continue as a class skill.

Falcon Knight and Sage have Continue as class skill.

They have 30 mage, 30 speed AND Continue? I am sorry for not making proper preparations. I just couldn't grasp the possibilty of them beeing even more overpowered so I didn't bother to look. Guess this will teach me. I can't belive I had a Claude Sety once and didn't notice. In fact I was actually SURE he didn't had this ability back then.

But since the damage is already done: I don't quite get how Mekkah calculated the chances for a Continue.

That's right; Sages are broken.

But anyway, I believe the Continue activation is AS+20%. Which is why Claude!Sety is better off with Levin's Elwind.

Isn't Mekkah using average Lv. 14 Setys?

Edited September 24, 2009 by TheEnd

[Mekkah]

I accidentally had their Adept chances at Spd% when it's supposed to be AS+20%. Let me rework Sety's exact proc chances:

L14 Sety has 43 hp, 19 skl, 21 spd, 16 AS w/ Lightning

This means he doubles everything with 20 AS or lower with 19% crit and 36% continue. Based on that alone:

~34% chance to crit at least once on two attacks

~59% chance to Continue at least once on two attacks

~73% chance of either critting or getting Continue at least once on two attacks

Charge is a little more difficult to factor in, since its activation has two variables: Sety's hp and the difference between his and the enemy AS. Let's say we have an enemy with 7 AS, such as a Slim Lance Dragon Knight in Ch9. For now, let's say Sety didn't proc Spd yet (even though he has staves for leveling and 35% growth) but that he's at full 43 hp.

Charge activation = User AS - Enemy AS + (User HP/2)

= 16 - 5 + 21

= 32

So even if Sety doesn't proc anything else (~27%), he has a 32% chance of getting Charge. So overall, we're looking at a ~80% chance Sety triggers any of his skills.

And all this disregards another way of boosting his offense: Levin's Elwind tome which possibly has crit tacked on to it, which is now superfluous because his son will be running Holsety.

Oh, and there's two Magic Rings for +5 damage per hit, though one is only available in Ch10.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Mekkah

[Renall]

Point taken...though the point wasn't that Delmud > Celice. It's that he's on par with him at least, aka he shines about as much as one of the "near gods"

That's funny because nobody considers Celice to be one of the godly units until Tyrfing. And I didn't say Delmud was bad, just that he doesn't stand out like some pairings because he's always a good, solid unit with good stats but no "flashpoint" other than Charisma (which of course ignores all the other skills he'll usually have, but hey, people consider those boring I guess). Way to completely misinterpret the argument though.

[TheEnd]

Oh, and there's two Magic Rings for +5 damage per hit, though one is only available in Ch10.

I hope you remember that only the first magic ring works; they aren't cumulative.

[Renall]

Oh, and there's two Magic Rings for +5 damage per hit, though one is only available in Ch10.

I hope you remember that only the first magic ring works; they aren't cumulative.

I think he meant more there's two available, so it's okay to give Sety one.

[Eltoshen]

Oh, and there's two Magic Rings for +5 damage per hit, though one is only available in Ch10.

I hope you remember that only the first magic ring works; they aren't cumulative.

I think he meant more there's two available, so it's okay to give Sety one.

I believe you only get the second one if you didn't inherit the first one.

[TheEnd]

Oh, and there's two Magic Rings for +5 damage per hit, though one is only available in Ch10.

I hope you remember that only the first magic ring works; they aren't cumulative.

I think he meant more there's two available, so it's okay to give Sety one.

I believe you only get the second one if you didn't inherit the first one.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

That, or because Lachesis is the whore of Fire Emblem. Although I guess that's only because the fandom made her out to be a whore we can blame her convo with beowulf, though.

I don't mean to go off topic in my own topic, but that convo she has with Beowolf seems unclear to me as of late. I'm not really sure whether he is talking about Eltshan or Fin.

like in what way? we know that Lachesis had an affair with Finn, and that's why Delmudd is the canon son of Beowulf and Nanna is the canon daughter of Finn. And to think she said she won't marry in chapter 2...

for the record, men, everytime a nun turns into a whore, it's either GOOD or BAD, BAD BAD.

[Blademaster!]

That, or because Lachesis is the whore of Fire Emblem. Although I guess that's only because the fandom made her out to be a whore we can blame her convo with beowulf, though.

I don't mean to go off topic in my own topic, but that convo she has with Beowolf seems unclear to me as of late. I'm not really sure whether he is talking about Eltshan or Fin.

like in what way? we know that Lachesis had an affair with Finn, and that's why Delmudd is the canon son of Beowulf and Nanna is the canon daughter of Finn. And to think she said she won't marry in chapter 2...

for the record, men, everytime a nun turns into a whore, it's either GOOD or BAD, BAD BAD.

Where do they ever mention Nanna being Fin's canon daughter? In FE5, I think she is supposed to be his adopted daughter.

long post to set some stuff straight

Fury: Levin or Claude.

Noish > Claude for Fury, imo. Fee goes from "better staff utility after promotion" to "much much better melee combat for all game long", which is better for her for many obvious reasons, such as the fact that she's often flying away from the pack to save villages and kill things on her own (meaning she'll have little to heal), or the fact that it lasts for a longer time frame.

Yes, Sety gets his Mag raped. However, even if Sety was hurt as much as Fee is helped by going with Noish over Claude, the winning deal is already for Noish, since Fee is helped for longer. Then consider the exact impact.

14 Claude!Sety w/ Lightning: 37 Atk, 18 AS, 23% Continue

14 Noish!Sety w/ Lightning: 31 Atk, 16 AS, 21% Continue, 19% critical, Charge

All Noish!Sety needs to do to make up for the 6 mag deficit is hit an extra time in battle (or critical). Given how he has 2 extra proc skills that stack with both Pursuit and Continue, that's going to happen almost all the time.

Not to mention 31 atk in its own right is fine. The Dragon Knights that assault you in Ch8, for example, have no more than 59 hp/1 res, which base Noish!Sety 2HKOs exactly. Next chapter, there's some Dragonknights who have more hp/res than that, but Noish!Sety is still 3HKO on them, meaning he only needs one of Continue, Charge and Critical to trigger on either of his two hits to kill them. Assuming all of them at 20% for a second to make it easy, he's already running ~50% chance to kill on just his first attack. ~74% factoring in his second attack. Also factor in that he's leaving them with single digit HP even if he doesn't kill, so about anyone can finish them off if he fails to ORKO.

So definitely better Fee and arguably better Sety if you go with Noish.

B Swords means a Hero in the field for Patty plus a combat skill which lets her bypass her STR weakness (and it's SKL% activation, which she'll have plenty of)

I've already addressed this: it only helps her on the field, since Lex!Patty in the arena will always win, whereas Holyn!Patty simply won't. And out on the field, she faces her durability issues, and can't be relied upon to proc Moonlight. And even when she does, as I said, she's still not going to ORKO anything. Assuming she gets +2 str level-ups, she's doing 20 per hit if she triggers Moonlight, but 20-enemy def whenever she doesn't. Every enemy has more than 40 hp, so she will have to take a counter (which sucks when it takes 20 atk to 2HKO Patty, and 27 to reduce her to single digit HP).

Now Lex!Patty doesn't need to go into such antics, she can just use a magic sword (even the Fire Sword which no one wants) to chip at range for like 20 EXP while stealing gold, and she'll still have a higher level than Holyn!Patty due to her arena lead. If Holyn!Patty tries to do it, she just falls behind more. And of course, Patty also has the option to give away her gold to someone else if you don't want/need her to kill/hurt an enemy that turn, and Lex!Patty gains 20 EXP for that while Holyn!Patty only gets 10.

So Lex!Patty is lower maintenance AND grows faster.

Holyn plugs Faval's SKL hole (and it's a huge-ass hole with freakin' Ardan as dad, 25% growth vs. 95% isn't even a contest)

I've never said anything about pairing Ardan with Brigid, which would be foolish. I'm talking about Lex.

Lex!Faval has 15 skl and 35% growth.

Faval!Holyn has 21 skl and 95% growth.

A 12 hit difference. Lex!Faval already has exactly 100 hit at base, and enemies generally have trouble even having positive avo. Then consider Faval's hit can be padded by using Killer Bow (+30 hit), Charisma or leadership stars. Or the fact that the vast majority of enemies he's facing soon are getting OHKO'd due to them being bow weak, so he only has to hit one of his two shots.

And within five levels, Holyn!Faval's skl is already capped, so from there Lex!Faval just starts catching up. Like, 25 skl vs 17 skl at L14, a 16 hit advantage, then after promotion it's 27 vs 21, only a 12 advantage again. At L30, Lex!Faval has 24, only a 6 hit difference. And this is disregarding the fact Lex!Faval grows twice as fast thanks to Elite.

He's [Delmud] a very solid player among small gods. He shines, he just doesn't shine as much as everybody around him. But he's very reliable and he makes anyone he's close to better. And he's mounted and comes in ch6, so yay for him. His weakness is that he is just not awesome enough in any particular area, although I've seen some pretty intriguing pairing/ring setups to turn him into a tank. Never tried them though.

Delmud doesn't shine? Fin!Delmud has some of the best hp/str/def combos of all the kids, and he has a mount to add to it. In fact, his bases are essentially Celice's (2 more hp, str, def and spd tied). Even looking at their growths:

(+ Delmud wins, - Celice wins)

HP: +30%

Str: +15%

Skl: -15%

Spd: +5%

Def: -5%

Res: -20%

Luk: +25%

Then at some point Celice promotes and gains lances as well as +4 str, but Delmud gets +9 skl and +6 spd, and he's also always running Charisma and Prayer versus Celice's nothing.

Give Delmud one of your many good swords (you get two Hero Swords, two Silver Swords, and then Steel and Silver Blade) and he is definitely one of your best units.

You made a mistake here. With Fin as a Father, Celice has 30% more Hp than Delmud.

Noish > Claude for Fury, imo.

Indeed, that's your opinion. And yours alone.

Basically the entire rest of the community agrees that Claude or Levin are her best choices. And guess what? This thread is about...

What are generally considered the best pairings?

Although I said that this topic is about what is generally considered the best pairings, if somewhat wants to express their opinion on a particular pairing to help change the comunities idea of what the best pairings are, then I see no reason why they shouldn't.

[TheEnd]

Where do they ever mention Nanna being Fin's canon daughter? In FE5, I think she is supposed to be his adopted daughter.

All FE5 official material hints that Nanna is Beowulf's daughter there. However, it seems that IS tried to minimize that to avoid fan outrage or something.

Although I said that this topic is about what is generally considered the best pairings, if somewhat wants to express their opinion on a particular pairing to help change the comunities idea of what the best pairings are, then I see no reason why they shouldn't.

Mekkah has been the lone advocate of Noish x Fury for a while. That's the motive of my comment.

[Kriemhild]

I tried Noish+Fury. Fee was awesome. Sety was HORRIBLE. Maybe if I gave him Elwind, he would have been better but I think the other magicians needed it more.

[Eltoshen]

I tried Noish+Fury. Fee was awesome. Sety was HORRIBLE. Maybe if I gave him Elwind, he would have been better but I think the other magicians needed it more.

How does that make Sety horrible if he's still better than all your other mages? It just makes him less godly.

[Renall]

I tried Noish+Fury. Fee was awesome. Sety was HORRIBLE. Maybe if I gave him Elwind, he would have been better but I think the other magicians needed it more.

How does that make Sety horrible if he's still better than all your other mages? It just makes him less godly.

Noish!Sety has 10% MAG growth and a base of 17. That's pretty bad. It's worse than Hawk, his replacement (he also has less SPD and RES than Hawk, but still beats him in HP and DEF).

[Mekkah]

I detailed just a while back why Sety's magic is not an issue. Why do you people insist on making my efforts seem in vain?

You made a mistake here. With Fin as a Father, Celice has 30% more Hp than Delmud.

Right.

That's funny because nobody considers Celice to be one of the godly units until Tyrfing. And I didn't say Delmud was bad, just that he doesn't stand out like some pairings because he's always a good, solid unit with good stats but no "flashpoint" other than Charisma (which of course ignores all the other skills he'll usually have, but hey, people consider those boring I guess). Way to completely misinterpret the argument though.

I picked Celice because people generally seem to consider him godly, oftentimes mentioned as "best lord" whenever such a thread pops up. Who should he be compared to then to show he's amazing? Sure, Delmud can't touch Shannan, Aless or Sety. However, I would say he's more useful overall than:

- Artur (unless he has Holsety)

- Celice

- Corple

- Faval

- Lakche

- Leaf

- Lester

- Patty

- Sety (unless he has Holsety)

- Skasaha

- Tinny

Fee, Lana, Leen, Nanna, Lester are more arguable because they provide additional utility and/or have a mount. In most of the above cases, Delmud delivers similar or better combat for most of the game, and often has a movement advantage to go with it. For example, compared to Leaf, he has much better combat and move until Leaf promotes, and then Leaf wins combat after he does promote, though often by an overkill amount.

[Renall]

I detailed just a while back why Sety's magic is not an issue. Why do you people insist on making my efforts seem in vain?

Generally speaking, a character whose MAG is 10+ points below their cap and who is expected to gain an average of 1 point over their entire leveling span and who is only really capable of using Elwind as their ace in the hole is not a great character. Or at least, Noish!Sety is not worth waiting until the tail end of ch8 for.

One thing about Claude!Sety is even if you don't intend to ever really bother using him you can just have him Reserve spam for a little bit and top off his levels. Can be a little handy on ranked (although I question how quickly Claude x Fury can be made on ranked). I suppose nothing prevents any other Sety from staff-spamming too, but not having an A in anything sucks. It's livable, but it sucks.

I picked Celice because people generally seem to consider him godly, oftentimes mentioned as "best lord" whenever such a thread pops up.

...on what planet? When I think of lords that tend to rank high I think of gods like Sigurd and Ike, and overexposed GBA lords like Hector. Celice doesn't really jump out at me as a highly-rated lord. He's above-average.

Who should he be compared to then to show he's amazing? Sure, Delmud can't touch Shannan, Aless or Sety. However, I would say he's more useful overall than:

- Artur (unless he has Holsety)

Arthur is the first character you get who hits RES and the second who is ranged. But he's unmounted pre-promotion so I'm inclined to agree with you until then.

- Celice

Definitely.

- Corple

Oh come on, who isn't?

- Faval

In most general circumstances yeah.

- Lakche

Yes.

- Leaf

Yeah, I'll give you this one. After promotion it swings around, but Delmud's already been kicking ass for the whole second gen by then.

- Lester

Don't know if I agree here. Lester's another of those workhorse units that's really good (with the right dads) and doesn't get a lot of credit. The difference is Delmud actually has an enemy phase and Lester has no competition for his weapons (and the Killer and Hero Bows are amazing). Wouldn't know where to call it here.

- Patty

Sure.

- Sety (unless he has Holsety)

Sety is massively overrated anyway. I'd still be inclined to disagree though, because Sety from almost any father is extremely potent and Sage is quite a broken class.

- Skasaha

Who says Skasaha is better than Delmud?

- Tinny

lololol Tinny. Agreed.

Fee, Lana, Leen, Nanna, Lester are more arguable because they provide additional utility and/or have a mount. In most of the above cases, Delmud delivers similar or better combat for most of the game, and often has a movement advantage to go with it. For example, compared to Leaf, he has much better combat and move until Leaf promotes, and then Leaf wins combat after he does promote, though often by an overkill amount.

I'd argue Delmud over Fee, under Lana (what can I say, Staff Chick is good in FE4), and I don't know where I'd mix him in with Nanna and Lester. Depends which Delmud we're talking about and which other kids. A Delmud without Pursuit is not very good unless he can get the ring, which will be a problem if we went with Jamka!Lester or something. Tristan has a similar issue, but he's got decent combat parameters with the ring. I would certainly prefer to father Delmud with Fin, Beowulf, or even Azel to get around that issue of course, and it doesn't hurt him too much really.

This differs somewhat from my opinions a year ago on the GameFAQs Gen 2 tier list, but that list was sort of a gigantic mess and I'd prefer to revisit it. I stand by Shanan at top of top, but the rest of it probably needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Renall

[Dat Nick]

...I think Lakche<Delmud is enough to prove that Delmud does a good job contending with the epic on FE4 Gen 2.

Mind, it's a completely different story if Lex screwed Ayra, but Briggid is Lex's only other really plausable option.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Germany

[Renall]

...I think Lakche<Delmud is enough to prove that Delmud does a good job contending with the epic on FE4 Gen 2.

Mind, it's a completely different story if Lex screwed Ayra, but Briggid is Lex's only other really plausable option.

He doesn't "contend with the epic," people just have a screwed-up idea of what the epic is. I don't know if he's top of the super-mortals (though he's certainly a dark horse candidate), but Delmud isn't quite approaching the level of Shanan, Aless, Levin!Sety and Levin!Arthur. And neither is Lakche, some people's opinions of the sword twins notwithstanding. But at least Delmud can keep up with Aless and make him better, so even though he can't fight the likes of Ishtar or whatever terribly reliably, he can provide benefit to the people who do.