My Unit builds (Lunatic Mode)

[grandjackal]

So now that I have the game and getting around to Lunatic, there are some things I have to make note of for these classes as I've tested them out.

Myrm: You literally need 6 Str, or else it's quite literally impossible to get past the first chapter if Jeigen procs defense. You would otherwise need stupifying luck. Otherwise the AI is reletively friendly to the Myrm, unlike...

Merc: The AI absolutely hates this class. Luke goes apeshit on the wrong person, P-3 the strategy used might instead just get you deadlocked to be killed since the AI wants nothing to do with him. He's pretty much stuck to player phase outside of situations where the enemy has absolutely no choice but to go for him.

Knight: Survivability is certainly not an issue to him unless axers are involved. His OFFENSE however, is pure balls. Fighter's sheer might and the merc/myrm doubling honestly is safer for my team. This is less a "someone dies all the time" issue (outside of P-3 which I'm convinced is a hellish nightmare devised by H.P. Lovecraft, or the Twilight Zone guys), and more a "I can actually see my turn count building up" issue. Great, he's probably pretty cool in Athena's chapter, but considering there is a near-failsafe (as in the only thing getting in your way is if you miss) way to do George's version in 5 turns, I am pretty sure that is simply an issue of taking forever. However, until someone finds a good way to get through P-5 with Gordon instead of Athena, I do have to give him some props at least for being stupifyingly great in P-4.

Fighter: Hell yes! Out of all the ones I've tested so far, this dude is the best. I'm talking George's P-4 without using a single healing item/staff use in 5 turns good. 2RKOing Jeigen good. He has the benefit of 2RKOing things without doubling, so he can actually avoid situations where he is countered. Perhaps I got lucky, but I believe there is a way that allows our hard hitter to take a fighter and a merc in chapter P-3, which can help quite well there.

I've yet to use Mage, Archer, and the mounted classes. But, if you want my opinion just on ease of use, I would list them as so. However, if I am simply just braindead from hours of lost sleep to form strategies around these guys without it being a pain in the ass, enlighten us.

Fighter (AI friendly, kicks ass and chews bubble gum. 'Nuff said)

Myrm (you sort of need luck in avoiding a hit from a fighter in P-3 but outside of that she's nearly as capable as the fighter simply because the AI loves these classes for some reason).

Knight (He's never going to die, but for early in prologue where it's more a quickly kill the enemy before they kill you situation, Knight is a pain in the ass class to handle. Halfway through prologue on the right routes though, Knight kicks ass. Doesn't help that early on, the AI has the same problems with this class as it does hte merc).

Merc (Yes, I would honestly prefer the Knight. Don't get me wrong, he's got a wonderful stat spread, and it would be great if the AI was willing to cooperate. For example, let's say that he does the same damage in an attack as the Fighter, difference being the Merc has to double to get his offense out. Since the enemy loves doing anything BUT touching hte Merc, he actually kills our offense by existing. Fighter exists, 16 damage at least. Myrm exists, doubles and I get my damage. Merc exists, they attack Luke and Roddy for shitty damage. Later on, all he is is just a more stable form of the Myrm. Considering Myrm was being helpful early in prologue and the Fighter kicks ass throughout it, it's hard for the merc to find his unique spot from these guys, and unlike the Knight he's not assured to carry us through to the good parts thanks partly to the AI and how hte Merc functions. Mrym doubles something on the counter, Ryan chips and the Mrym is assured to kill this thing without eating a counter. Since the enemy practically never attacks the Merc if it has the choice, the Merc has to eat a counter since one of the failure cavs had to do the initial damage that's unlike the Knight, who doesn't give a fuck about taking counters).

However, this could simply be due to my shortsightedness and simply don't know the right strategies that would revolve around these classes. You may now talk about strategies for Prologue based on each class, what builds would be most effective for said strategy, you get the picture. Remember, this is Lunatic mode, so I please ask you have played the game on Lunatic mode, bring numbers if you must, what have you. Even AI info would be nice.

[Aquilae]

I've played through the Prologue on Lunatic Mode, and Knight was a great unit for the entirety of the prologue. Knight's offense isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, and P-2 isn't that hard to do with a Knight MU, except that you might take a little more time to kill Luke.

Ryan can take a hit from Luke while standing on a fort, and survive another hit even if he isn't on the fort. It's fairly simple to kill Luke with both Ryan and MU attacking him.

P-3 was a little tricky with Knight. I don't remember my exact positions, but I was able to clear it once I did not lure in the Fighter at the upper left corner. The combined range of Sheeda and the Fighter extends to about 3/4ths of the map, leaving little wiggle room, but Luke / Rody / Knight MU / Ryan can reasonably take out the Fighter and the Merc on turn 2 of Player Phase.

Knight does shine in Athena Route P-4 though. Mine might be slightly blessed in defence, Athena, the Merc and the two Myrms were tinking him, and the Soldiers could barely manage a 3HKO, meaning with a bit of help from Wrys the chapter wasn't hard to complete.

[fatgamecat]

hmm.. in my experience, the Knight is not only the easiest unit to clear the prologue with, but will also get you the lowest turn count. Assuming you pick the +15% SPD growth and reload for SPD procs so he doesn't get doubled, that is. If not, Fighter is a solid, reliable choice.

[grandjackal]

I've played through the Prologue on Lunatic Mode, and Knight was a great unit for the entirety of the prologue. Knight's offense isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, and P-2 isn't that hard to do with a Knight MU, except that you might take a little more time to kill Luke.

Ryan can take a hit from Luke while standing on a fort, and survive another hit even if he isn't on the fort. It's fairly simple to kill Luke with both Ryan and MU attacking him.

I'm more than aware of this, but the problem is this takes ages in comparison to let's say Fighter who can counter Luke, Ryan chips and Fighter kills. Recovers a bit on the fort, you can do that chapter in 4 turns tops without using a single vulnery. With Knight, I need Ryan chugging that stuff down while Knight chips away, then repeat with Roddy. Takes more time, takes more resources.

P-3 was a little tricky with Knight. I don't remember my exact positions, but I was able to clear it once I did not lure in the Fighter at the upper left corner. The combined range of Sheeda and the Fighter extends to about 3/4ths of the map, leaving little wiggle room, but Luke / Rody / Knight MU / Ryan can reasonably take out the Fighter and the Merc on turn 2 of Player Phase.

Here's a thought. Going down south to take out the merc first, then setting up position as to make it so that Shiida goes after someone but the nearby fighter can't join in. in a way, making it so Shiida coming n actually blocks the attack route of the fighter.

This map is simply the trickiest out of all the prologues I believe.

Knight does shine in Athena Route P-4 though. Mine might be slightly blessed in defence, Athena, the Merc and the two Myrms were tinking him, and the Soldiers could barely manage a 3HKO, meaning with a bit of help from Wrys the chapter wasn't hard to complete.

Athena's got 19 ATK, and WTD nulls it down to 15. 2 Def is all you need, and even then it's not like she's doing much damage to you (at worst she'd do 2x2 damage). Normal myrms I believe are much weaker than that, and it's easy for hte Knight to just flat out ignore them.

Problem is, I still believe taking George's route is faster. 5 turns is all it takes, and you get more exp because George is a pinata.

hmm.. in my experience, the Knight is not only the easiest unit to clear the prologue with, but will also get you the lowest turn count.

Lowest turncount. I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert. 3 turns on Jeigen's chapter, 4 turns against Luke and Roddy, 5 against George. I would absolutely love to see the Knight pull this off.

Assuming you pick the +15% SPD growth and reload for SPD procs so he doesn't get doubled, that is. If not, Fighter is a solid, reliable choice.

There inlies the problem. I have to be dependent on luck for that to work with the Knight if I'm relying on growths. The fighter is quite capable of kicking ass and chewing bubblegum at base.

[Aquilae]

You can kill Luke in two turns since Ryan can survive a hit while standing on a fort and then another hit. Ryan doesn't need to use a Vulnerary at all. Rody is a cinch if you use MU Knight to lure him in, and I believe it only takes about 1 more turn than Fighter MU.

Also, I found Athena very useful in the later Prologue chapters. I'm not so sure about Gordin though, as you said P-5 is going to pose more of a problem with him over Athena. I haven't played much of the game after Prologue, but the Knight can reclass into a class with better Speed and function well without getting doubled. Knight's Speed growth isn't that bad, it seems good enough with the 15% boost.

[grandjackal]

You can kill Luke in two turns since Ryan can survive a hit while standing on a fort and then another hit. Ryan doesn't need to use a Vulnerary at all. Rody is a cinch if you use MU Knight to lure him in, and I believe it only takes about 1 more turn than Fighter MU.

You can't attack Luke initially without bringing about Roddy's wrath. Aggrivating the both of them is a surefire way to get Ryan killed. Not even Ryan can attack without getting into Roddy's attack range from the get-go. It takes 3 shots for the armor to kill Luke, so it takes 3 turns unless for some stupid reason Luke decides to attack the armor.

So, count a turn of Ryan bringing Luke in, 3 turns to take him down, then another 3 for Roddy. 7 turns compared to 4.

Also, I found Athena very useful in the later Prologue chapters. I'm not so sure about Gordin though, as you said P-5 is going to pose more of a problem with him over Athena. I haven't played much of the game after Prologue, but the Knight can reclass into a class with better Speed and function well without getting doubled. Knight's Speed growth isn't that bad, it seems good enough with the 15% boost.

From what I've seen of Paperblade's playthrough, I could replace Athena with MU Myrm/Merc/Fighter, Merc probably being the best form P-5 onward since he's probably bound to do more damage thanks to doubling, and having a higher strength base than the myrm, while Gordon replaces the MU Mage.

HOWEVER, if I'm using some other class like Knight or Archer or Mage (possibly Cavalier as well), it's probably wiser to get Athena.

As for the Knight growths with the speed, that's quite the reason we're using the Knight in prologue as you pointed out. However, I just feel that other classes are more functional to the prologue at hand, so helping us get out of prologue faster simply helps a lot.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Aquilae]

You can't attack Luke initially without bringing about Roddy's wrath. Aggrivating the both of them is a surefire way to get Ryan killed. Not even Ryan can attack without getting into Roddy's attack range from the get-go. It takes 3 shots for the armor to kill Luke, so it takes 3 turns unless for some stupid reason Luke decides to attack the armor.

So, count a turn of Ryan bringing Luke in, 3 turns to take him down, then another 3 for Roddy. 7 turns compared to 4.

From what I've seen, Rody doesn't move until you get into his range. Luke doesn't draw him in when he is defeated. So, the turns went something like this:

Turn 1: Move Ryan on fort, Ryan gets attacked by Luke.

Turn 2: Ryan + MU attack Luke, Ryan gets hit by Luke again.

Turn 3: Ryan + MU kill Luke, MU gets into Rody's range. MU counters.

Turn 4: Ryan + MU kill Rody.

I don't see how you can get 7 turns in P-2, it's fairly simple with Knight MU.

[fatgamecat]

Lowest turncount. I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert. 3 turns on Jeigen's chapter, 4 turns against Luke and Roddy, 5 against George. I would absolutely love to see the Knight pull this off.

There inlies the problem. I have to be dependent on luck for that to work with the Knight if I'm relying on growths. The fighter is quite capable of kicking ass and chewing bubblegum at base.

After tooling around with Lunatic and Lunatic Reverse as a Knight, Cavalier, and Fighter, I'm almost certain that the Knight has the lowest turn count on both Lunatic and Lunatic Reverse, provided you reload for SPD growths so he doesn't get doubled. I found the best knight build for prologue turn count to be +2 STR, +1 DEF, and +SKL/SPD. This lets him finish P1 in 4 turns. His knight growths will be 45 STR, 65 SKL, 45 SPD, and 55 DEF. Reloading for a 45% SPD proc is easy to do in the first few prologues because they take 1 min or less to complete. You don't have to reload for his other stats as long as they aren't getting RNG screwed.

The first noticeable chapter for the knight is Prologue 4 vs Athena. He can quickly grind the enemies to dust, clearing in 4 turns and recruiting Athena. The Fighter and Cavalier just can't muster the knights ridiculous DEF to pull this off no matter how good their growths are. This theme repeats in P7 vs Cain where he can stand on the middle fort and almost solo the entire map. Finally in P8 he can literally chain pull the stationary bandits and hunters while handling the incoming reinforcements at the same time, leading to a very fast clear.

Prologue Turn Counts as a Knight (+2 STR, +1 DEF, +SKL/SPD) on Lunatic and Lunatic Reverse:

P1: 4

P2: 4

P3: 4

P4 vs Athena: 4

P4 vs Jeorge: ?

P5: 5

P6 vs Draug: 3

P6 vs Ogma: 3

P7 vs Cain: 3

P7 vs Est: 4

P8: 11

Total Prologue count (assuming Athena, Ogma, and Cain): 38 turns

Edited August 16, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Paperblade]

From what I've seen of Paperblade's playthrough, I could replace Athena with MU Myrm/Merc/Fighter, Merc probably being the best form P-5 onward since he's probably bound to do more damage thanks to doubling, and having a higher strength base than the myrm, while Gordon replaces the MU Mage.

My concern with this is that my strategy for P-7 involves

Turn 1: Merric baits armor and counters, everyone else stays back.

Turn 2: MU (now Gordin) kills that armor, Wrys heals Merric, Merric attacks other armor, Athena kills Archer, Caeda/Luke kill Archer. On enemy phase, Myrm attacks Luke, Myrm attacks Athena (now MU), Knight goes after MU and dies.

Turn 3: MU covers lower right fort, Caeda covers PK fort, Athena kills Myrm. Wrys heals Athena, Luke goes on Archer fort and prepares to take on Cain. Merric finishes Myrm.

Turn 4: Athena finishes Cav, Merric/Luke/Caeda team up on Cain.

I'm concerned that the second Knight will team up on the wrong person and kill them (Mage MU's defense blows, Gordin's not so much) or that the Knight not dying on enemy phase will cause issues. I'm pretty sure that Gordin can finish off Knights that Merric hits with Elfire, but his lack of 1 range makes me concerned.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Paperblade

[grandjackal]

My concern with this is that my strategy for P-7 involves

Turn 1: Merric baits armor and counters, everyone else stays back.

Turn 2: MU (now Gordin) kills that armor, Wrys heals Merric, Merric attacks other armor, Athena kills Archer, Caeda/Luke kill Archer. On enemy phase, Myrm attacks Luke, Myrm attacks Athena (now MU), Knight goes after MU and dies.

Turn 3: MU covers lower right fort, Caeda covers PK fort, Athena kills Myrm. Wrys heals Athena, Luke goes on Archer fort and prepares to take on Cain. Merric finishes Myrm.

Turn 4: Athena finishes Cav, Merric/Luke/Caeda team up on Cain.

I'm concerned that the second Knight will team up on the wrong person and kill them (Mage MU's defense blows, Gordin's not so much) or that the Knight not dying on enemy phase will cause issues. I'm pretty sure that Gordin can finish off Knights that Merric hits with Elfire, but his lack of 1 range makes me concerned.

HOWEVER, if I'm using some other class like Knight or Archer or Mage (possibly Cavalier as well), it's probably wiser to get Athena.

I share the concern, thus why I would like confirmation form others. I also agree that those classes would prefer Athena, since fast completing George's route requires MU be able to 2RKO, something none of those mentioned classes can muster (in the archer's case, due to no countering).

Also, which one is P-7 again? The one with Draug/Ogma? Clearly we will have to think that one over, since it's another route issue.

Or was it the one with Cain/Est? I'm guessing it is Cain's chapter. I don't recall there being any armors in Est's version, and this way might require a more defensive posture while luring out Est for the kill since I know she will move, and it's easier for her to reach you (and thus become easier to pick off) due to flight.

[fatgamecat]

My concern with this is that my strategy for P-7 involves

Turn 1: Merric baits armor and counters, everyone else stays back.

Turn 2: MU (now Gordin) kills that armor, Wrys heals Merric, Merric attacks other armor, Athena kills Archer, Caeda/Luke kill Archer. On enemy phase, Myrm attacks Luke, Myrm attacks Athena (now MU), Knight goes after MU and dies.

Turn 3: MU covers lower right fort, Caeda covers PK fort, Athena kills Myrm. Wrys heals Athena, Luke goes on Archer fort and prepares to take on Cain. Merric finishes Myrm.

Turn 4: Athena finishes Cav, Merric/Luke/Caeda team up on Cain.

Just watched that playthrough. You rolled another female mage my unit? And I'm trying to find a way to 4 turn that without relying on a miracle 3% x2 crit chance.

Edit: Just figured out a reliable 4 turn strat for it. Used knight MU, Athena, Luke, Shiida, Merric.

Turn 1: Merric hits north knight, MU moves onto mid fort, Shiida moves to counter south knight. North knight suicides on MU knight, north archer hits Merric.

Turn 2: Merric finishes off south knight. MU hits south myrm. Athena/Luke/Shiida finishes off north Myrm and north archer. South myrm suicides on MU.

Turn 3: 3 forts are camped. Finish off remaining archer.

Turn 4: Finish off Cain and cavalier.

There's no reason to take Gordin over Athena. Athena is a great unit for the prologue and Gordin is just another blah archer.

Edited August 16, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Paperblade]

I share the concern, thus why I would like confirmation form others. I also agree that those classes would prefer Athena, since fast completing George's route requires MU be able to 2RKO, something none of those mentioned classes can muster (in the archer's case, due to no countering).

Also, which one is P-7 again? The one with Draug/Ogma? Clearly we will have to think that one over, since it's another route issue.

Or was it the one with Cain/Est? I'm guessing it is Cain's chapter. I don't recall there being any armors in Est's version, and this way might require a more defensive posture while luring out Est for the kill since I know she will move, and it's easier for her to reach you (and thus become easier to pick off) due to flight.

Cain version. Also that last line from the quote wasn't supposed to be there, it was from your post I was quoting and I forgot to remove it. >_>

[grandjackal]

Cain version.

Which case, it probably means going Est route in this situation.

Also that last line from the quote wasn't supposed to be there, it was from your post I was quoting and I forgot to remove it. >_>

Oh whoops XD should have noticed.

[fatgamecat]

P7 vs Est is a pain (on Lunatic Reverse anyway). Much harder than P7 vs Cain. I'm not sure how you'd do it without a high DEF MU.

Edited August 16, 2010 by mjemirzian

[grandjackal]

P7 vs Est is a pain. Much harder than P7 vs Cain. I'm not sure how you'd do it without a high DEF MU.

Guess I'm going to have to find out then, won't I?

Also, got an airtight strategy for P-3 when using Myrm. Problem is it requires a build that won't make the AI go wonky.

Farmer Child-Odd-Humanitarian

Goes like this.

Turn 1: Ryan stays where he is, MU moves under Ryan with Vulnery in hand, Roddy under her and Luke in the fort under Roddy, trading out their weapons.

Enemy Phase: Fighter goes after Ryan, Merc goes after MU who will double.

Turn 2: Roddy moves a bit to finish off the merc, Ryan moves to where Roddy used to be (now safe from harm), MU heals.

Enemy Phase: Fighter goes after Luke.

Turn 3: Ryan, Roddy and Luke finish off the fighter, MU goes to the other fort.

Enemy Phase: Last Fighter goes after MU.

Turn 4: Ryan chips at teh fighter if it's necessary for MU to avoid a counter (in the least, it makes her sword last a bit longer), MU finishes. Luke moves under MU and takes the vulnery and slurps it down.

Enemy Phase: Shiida is lured in.

Turn 5: Ryan chips, finish off with whoever you want. Roddy should have about 60 EXP, so he will get a level if he kills her. Don't worry, Luke in the next chapter can nab exp to his delight in George's chapter and even finish off George. Luke will in the very least leave chapter P-4 at level 3 in the least.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Dr. Tarrasque]

P7 vs Est is a pain (on Lunatic Reverse anyway). Much harder than P7 vs Cain. I'm not sure how you'd do it without a high DEF MU.

I did it with a Myrm MU. Est is just Shiida again if you bring Ryan. Can't recall exactly how I did it but I remember placing Merric on the fort to take on the archers, the fighter taken care of in the first turn and the nearby Merc not posing much of a problem.

[fatgamecat]

I did it with a Myrm MU. Est is just Shiida again if you bring Ryan. Can't recall exactly how I did it but I remember placing Merric on the fort to take on the archers, the fighter taken care of in the first turn and the nearby Merc not posing much of a problem.

Yeah, I meant to say lunatic reverse, my bad.

I'm really starting to enjoy knight MU on Lunatic Reverse. I chose to keep MU as a knight for Chapter 1 because being able to take multiple hits and deal counterattack damage is godlike on this mode. Knight MU and general Aran counterattacked both bandit waves to death with archer support. I managed an 8 turn clear, 3 turns faster than my previous Lunatic time, despite being on a harder difficulty. I'm hoping to break just about all of my current turn counts on this new playthrough.

[grandjackal]

I'm not sure either, but I'm about to find out which one Ogma makes easier.

What fun his chapter is. You need at least 2 vulnery uses. Myrm strategy.

Turn 1: Cecile moves a space south of attacking the north fighter, MU taking that place instead and taking a Steel Sword and equipping it. Shiida moves south of Cecile and gets the Steel lance, Bow and second Sword. Gordon moves south of her and equips the bow while taking the sword, shooting at the southern fighter with Steel. Luke moves in front of Gordon to nab the swrd and equip it, but doesn't attack.

Enemy Phase: Archer attacks Cecile (the entire reason I placed her where I did). Fighters attack the person blocking them. Ogma gets behind the south fighter, cav behind the north side.

Turn 2: Luke retreats and heals (IMPORTANT). Roddy takes his place and dequips (Oh Black Knight trickery, how I love thee). MU finishes off her fighter. Shiida fights the archer hovering over the river, Gordon takes the space of the slain fighter and finishes the archer off. Move Cecile off her current space. You can kill the archer using iron weapons, but before you have Gordon kill it, make sure Shiida is equipped with Steel.

Enemy Phase: Fighter attacks Roddy (make sure Shiida or Roddy is holding the vulnery), cav attacks Gordon, Ogma attacks Shiida.

Turn 3: Roddy whips his weapon back out and kills the fighter. Shiida moves south and sits on the bridge, heals herself. Luke now sits on the north bridge up in the cav's face, equipping iron (this is why he healed, he needs to take this guy's shot). Gordon shoots at Ogma with steel. Make sure whoever's behind Luke moves out of the way.

Enemy Phase: Ogma attacks Shiida, cav attacks Luke. Ogma's now a free kill.

Turn 4: Gordon shoots the cav with steel, and either Luke or Shiida are free to finish it off with a steel weapon. Ogma you can give to whoever. I gave it to MU.

This is a good reason as to why Luke should be getting favored in Prologue, because he is key here. If he can't take that cav hit, this strategy is fucked. Fuck Roddy and fuck Ryan, you need to either get Luke 2 HP or 1 HP and 1 Def for this strategy. Given his HP and Def growth it shouldn't be hard to get him those outside of horrid horrid luck.

3 Turn Cain Strategy

Make sure Shiida and Luke have vulneries.

Team: Shiida, Luke, Ogma, Maric, Gordon, MU

Turn 1: Gordon attacks the northern armor from under with Steel, Maric hoping into the fort to microwave it, Luke finishing it off. Shiida goes south of the lone myrm on the isle and attacks, Ogma moving to block the myrm from escaping. MU blocks the armor but not in reach of the left archer.

Enemy Phase: Armor attacks MU, myrm and archer stack up behind it, archer attacks Luke (this is why I said he should have a vulnery). Alternatively, the archer will choose to attack Gordon.

Turn 2: MU kills the archer, Luke heads north and heals, Shiida moves to a fort near Cain to heal up, Ogma does the same with one of the northern forts. Maric cooks the remaining armor, Gordon gets in position behind Maric but far enough away he doesn't get shot at.

Enemy Phase: Myrm and Archer attack Maric. He lives since he's on a fort. I want the myrm to be in front for a reason coming hte next turn.

Turn 3: Gordon shoots the myrm, Maric roasts the remains. MU kills the archer. Shiida charges Cain from the left side, Ogma bashes him form the right, and Luke finishes with Steel.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Don Draper]

This is a good reason as to why Luke should be getting favored in Prologue, because he is key here. If he can't take that cav hit, this strategy is fucked. Fuck Roddy and fuck Ryan, you need to either get Luke 2 HP or 1 HP and 1 Def for this strategy. Given his HP and Def growth it shouldn't be hard to get him those outside of horrid horrid luck.

I can easily 3 turn P-6 (Draug) without training Luke, so he's nowhere near key.

[grandjackal]

I can easily 3 turn P-6 (Draug) without training Luke, so he's nowhere near key.

Yet, can you 3 turn P-7 without Oggy?

[fatgamecat]

You can clear both P6 vs Draug and P6 vs Ogma in 3 turns, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about? If you want Ogma take him.

Yet, can you 3 turn P-7 without Oggy?

Yes but only if Luke has at least 9 STR. Then Athena at base, Shiida at base, and Luke can gang up on him for the kill.

Edited August 16, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Paperblade]

Another issue I see with MU + Gordin strat is that if you get Mercenary, you don't get an Elfire from Cecil in P-5, so Merric is only doing 24 damage to the knights. So you would need to go Myrmidon...

For Gordin to finish them, he would need 19-20 attack or double. Gaining that much Str/Spd is simply infeasible for him.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Paperblade

[grandjackal]

Which case, that's a problem for Merc MU, since you could still bumrush Cain and end it in 3 turns, and do what you did in P-8 in your video log still (I think at worst you could 10 turn that map, but at best? well clearly you showed us it could be done in 2 with some crit manipulation). Merc MU might have to take a different route in this case.

Prologue is weird. Everything feels like replacement characters that are meant to replace certain MU classes.

[Paperblade]

Which case, that's a problem for Merc MU, since you could still bumrush Cain and end it in 3 turns, and do what you did in P-8 in your video log still (I think at worst you could 10 turn that map, but at best? well clearly you showed us it could be done in 2 with some crit manipulation). Merc MU might have to take a different route in this case.

Prologue is weird. Everything feels like replacement characters that are meant to replace certain MU classes.

That 2 turn was on Normal Mode and the crit manipulation wasn't necessary.

[grandjackal]

That 2 turn was on Normal Mode and the crit manipulation wasn't necessary.

Oh. Did not notice it was normal mode.

...Still, I was able to replicate what you had done in your lunatic run, and perhaps could have done it pretty quickly if I wasn't so conservative on vulnery uses.