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BwdYeti

FE7x: Immortal Sword - Part One Complete

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2 hours ago, Mistik said:

I don't really know, I could have access to chapter 8 by pressing "down" at the world map after completing the chapter 1x, the story stayed logical : after the battle at the port against Malificient, the party went to south in the desert and after that, in some castle where assassins tried to kill everybody thanks to a guard taking a bribe :p

Maybe I'm wrong  but I didn't see any chapter 2, is it normal ?

Anyway, thanks for the intel, I'll check later :D

Uhmmm. Let's see.

The fact that you don't see any chapter 2 is... worrying. You're not even supposed to unlock Chapter 1 until after you complete intro, Prologue, Chapter 2 and Chapter 5. And there is no way you can play Chapter 8 but CAN'T play Chapters 3, 4 and 4x. Try pressing left or right on the world map, this switches the chapters shown. That tripped me up as well. At least devs should put a message about that.

You can also attach a screenshot of the world map, to let us see it the way the game shows you.

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On 10/24/2017 at 7:51 AM, DLuna said:

ch 3x

 

There's no ch3x, but there is a 4x. Might've just gotten those switched up.

Also, I think you should play the most recent patch, as t1 animas do only have access to two weapon types. Also, based on your issues, you should be trying out hard. It would, I think, take care of some of your concerns, or at least change some of them to be more specific to the current state, as some of what you're looking for probably has changed. 

I really don't the idea of making 2-3 range tomes (more so than 1 rng ones), as 3 range is a pretty big deal. Archers have to get to t2 lvl5 just to get access to that, and they're the only ones in the game that normally do have it. On top of being able to just hit more things, its ability to not be countered by mages, javs/handaxes, and by other archers is a pretty easy way to deal with situations that would otherwise be quite difficult.

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1 hour ago, deranger2 said:

I really don't the idea of making 2-3 range tomes (more so than 1 rng ones), as 3 range is a pretty big deal. Archers have to get to t2 lvl5 just to get access to that, and they're the only ones in the game that normally do have it. On top of being able to just hit more things, its ability to not be countered by mages, javs/handaxes, and by other archers is a pretty easy way to deal with situations that would otherwise be quite difficult.

While I do understand that concern from a balance perspective; it actually can work well in practice -- and not as inherently powerful as you might expect. A hit penalty is a good valve, and often times 2-3 access are only provided to units who usually cannot double by default, or the tomes themselves have extra weight, but obviously less extreme than a siege tome. Combined with the fact that it cannot retaliate at 1 range, and you have a formula that works pretty well. The actual MT of the tomes themselves can be weak as well (with wind magic, is already the case). There are actually a lot of things working against it. Longbows in the GBA games are again, only situational since they're otherwise fairly weak; the main purpose for 3 range is being flexible in positioning. The non-retaliation against 2-range foes is less of factor that you'd think. 

While the balancing/gameplay is clearly different in Gaiden/SoV, Thunder is surprisingly situational since it's heavier or weaker than other spells. Same applies here -- but factoring a HIT penalty or lower MT may even make it too weak.

Keep in mind that against bosses with only 2 range, you risk damaging your tactics/turn ranking by spamming them based on their inherit stats. Taking retaliation damage is worth doing if you're dealing far more damage on your end. More times than not, 3 range functions as supportive/extra damage from more flexible positions, not a decisive factor in outright killing. It's only for player phase as well.

Not that I'm advocating that it should be in the game or anything (it's certainly not a typical addition and anything seemingly not tried/tested is obviously going to have a level of scepticism; I only have my own unreleased project to go off of). That's not what I'm arguing. What I am trying to state however, is that it has the potential to improve variety, strategy and class identity. I think it should at least be explored or experimented with. Adding extra utility in some units/classes is a good opportunity when you counterbalance it with other factors. It's why Madelyn's 1-2 range staff is a cool addition; it's not something that otherwise exists in GBA FE, but it works very well.

If siege tomes were never a thing in FE, they would seem absurd on paper as well. And that would be understandable all the same.

In any case, this project may be far enough in development where additions such as these aren't worth designing or balancing. Which is fair enough.

Edited by DLuna

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Chapter 8 is not showing on my end. Not sure whose Lord it belongs to but it doesn´t show in any of the columns and I´ve already beaten all chapters up to 7x.

I was playing on 6.0.4 but it didn´t fix when I updated to 6.0.5. 

Something strange though, Introduction, Ch1 and Ch3 don´t show any "Play time" but they show the grade correctly.  (I guess it shows the play time up until that point in the respective Lord chapters, I´m dumb)

 

PS: Love the game, it´s been a while since I had this much fun in Fe.

Edit: Resolved. Ch8 appeared after completing 9.

Edited by Capibarainspace

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On 10/24/2017 at 7:51 AM, DLuna said:
On 10/24/2017 at 1:48 AM, Myke said:

There is talk of a lunatic mode, but we'll see.

Only if it doesn't involve increasing enemy stats from hard. If you can think of other ways to make the game more challenging, then that would be awesome. Different enemy AI, enemy classes, maybe weaponry etc... I think it's important that enemies don't just get stronger though, since that disrupts gameplay balance and unit viability. Enemies with higher AS just mean that units reliant on doubling become bad. That's quite a bit pitfall in regards to design.

Unfortunately this is the only realistic way a higher difficulty is happening. The number of players on hard is less than a tenth of normal, and lunatic would be that much smaller. Hard mode's changes are all individually designed compared to normal though, which lunatic would still preserve, so bigger numbers on top of the weapon, unit count, reinforcement, enemy class, etc changes should still combine to a coherent, if... 'crazy', challenge

 

re: confusion over chapter order, an update soon will help and an interface update in the future will make things much clearer. For now though, the correct chapter order is to just play through each list of chapters as a self contained story arc, and then move on to the next block. If you have an unlocked chapter you haven't played yet, that's the next chapter.

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11 hours ago, BwdYeti said:

Unfortunately this is the only realistic way a higher difficulty is happening. The number of players on hard is less than a tenth of normal, and lunatic would be that much smaller. Hard mode's changes are all individually designed compared to normal though, which lunatic would still preserve, so bigger numbers on top of the weapon, unit count, reinforcement, enemy class, etc changes should still combine to a coherent, if... 'crazy', challenge

Ah, I see, so it's effort vs. reward/audience. I understand that.

I do think though that the solution to that is to simply have some system changes that affect Lunatic globally, as opposed to increasing their stats (especially those like AS or durability; STR/SKL/MAG/LCK would probably be fine). Increasing enemy AS would immediately make some units nonviable, and increasing durability may make the game a slog fest. Increasing damage may work though.

Some other suggestions however that shouldn't be overly time consuming (as in, outside of individual changes across the whole game ) could be:

Massively reduced EXP gain for being over-levelled or having a high 'Rating'. Latter would probably be better since base level in this game don't necessarily correspond to unit power. This also means that if a unit is 'blessed' in stat gains, they'll gain less EXP.

Perhaps an outright prevention for a unit to have a stat that's more than 1 than it's average (for their level). Possibly accompanied by a 'lock' symbol next to a unit's stat in this becomes the case (any stat that is light green). This means that you cannot have a really blessed unit to cheese the game with, which would otherwise be a favourable strategy in other FEs. Although having a 'Fixed Growth' mode that's only active in Lunatic would work too. Generally that increases difficulty since players seldom use screwed units anyway and generally snowball their blessed ones (and when a FE is extremely difficult in terms of enemy scaling, then snowballing your own units usually becomes the best thing to do). Perhaps combined with this, each unit can only use one stat booster throughout the entire game (or you just cannot give a stat booster when the stat is 'locked').

Lower effective damage dealt to enemies by 50%. Similar to what you already have going for certain bosses. This means that the base difficulty of an enemy doesn't change (so Isadora whacking them with an Iron Sword doesn't become worse off) but that cheesing enemies with effective weapons becomes less of a win condition. They're still useful, but not overly so. It basically means that 2x bonus becomes 1.5x for all enemies etc...

Enemies no longer lose AS from being weighed down (or that their CON just increases to the weapon's WT in order to give players clarity). So that Steel Lance Peg? Still fast. This is much healthier than increasing base AS since class archetypes should be within doubling range in terms of baseline stats that doesn't disrupt balance. So not simply being weighed down is fair. This would affect certain enemies more than others, granted.

Perhaps, all weapons gain +10-15% HIT by default (reduce overflow hit by half to accompany that). This makes the game a bit more challenging since missing enemies tends to be more annoying (or otherwise non-impacting for the most part) than game changing. While for enemies, them hitting you a lot more often is actually much more detrimental to the player than it is for enemies being hit more. It also helps negate dodge tanking -- one of the most powerful things to abuse in FE where applicable.

This is how you can create a Lunatic mode merely by doing systematic changes as opposed to changing individual maps (that only apply in this mode). I don't think 'Lunatic' necessary needs to be so much more difficult than 'Hard'. But by doing these global changes, can be a really healthy way to introduce extra difficulty. Because you're doing so by limiting the player taking advantage of the strongest things they have access to, but not diminishing the aspects of the game that are not part of those (like viability of weaker units).

Understandably, simply increasing enemy stats does technically make the game more difficult with low effort, but not in ways that are too meaningful. It just forces the player to use cheese tactics or over-levelled/blessed units more often, which counteracts the difficulty. Changing individual maps is certainly time consuming, but there are systematic/mechanical changes that can be considered.

However, whether changes like this still require too much time investment is a factor you still need to consider. I think that even if it's a post-release thing it'll be worth doing that more than just adding a scaled up hard mode on release, but that's just my perspective. Honestly, Hard Mode by itself with a 'Fixed Growth' mode would actually be more meaningful than a scaled up version in Lunatic. Because a big part of combating difficulty is being lucky with a select few units.

Edited by DLuna

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:37 AM, DLuna said:

Ah, I see, so it's effort vs. reward/audience. I understand that.

I do think though that the solution to that is to simply have some system changes that affect Lunatic globally, as opposed to increasing their stats (especially those like AS or durability; STR/SKL/MAG/LCK would probably be fine). Increasing enemy AS would immediately make some units nonviable, and increasing durability may make the game a slog fest. Increasing damage may work though.

Some other suggestions however that shouldn't be overly time consuming (as in, outside of individual changes across the whole game ) could be:

Massively reduced EXP gain for being over-levelled or having a high 'Rating'. Latter would probably be better since base level in this game don't necessarily correspond to unit power. This also means that if a unit is 'blessed' in stat gains, they'll gain less EXP.

Perhaps an outright prevention for a unit to have a stat that's more than 1 than it's average (for their level). Possibly accompanied by a 'lock' symbol next to a unit's stat in this becomes the case (any stat that is light green). This means that you cannot have a really blessed unit to cheese the game with, which would otherwise be a favourable strategy in other FEs. Although having a 'Fixed Growth' mode that's only active in Lunatic would work too. Generally that increases difficulty since players seldom use screwed units anyway and generally snowball their blessed ones (and when a FE is extremely difficult in terms of enemy scaling, then snowballing your own units usually becomes the best thing to do). Perhaps combined with this, each unit can only use one stat booster throughout the entire game (or you just cannot give a stat booster when the stat is 'locked').

Lower effective damage dealt to enemies by 50%. Similar to what you already have going for certain bosses. This means that the base difficulty of an enemy doesn't change (so Isadora whacking them with an Iron Sword doesn't become worse off) but that cheesing enemies with effective weapons becomes less of a win condition. They're still useful, but not overly so. It basically means that 2x bonus becomes 1.5x for all enemies etc...

Enemies no longer lose AS from being weighed down (or that their CON just increases to the weapon's WT in order to give players clarity). So that Steel Lance Peg? Still fast. This is much healthier than increasing base AS since class archetypes should be within doubling range in terms of baseline stats that doesn't disrupt balance. So not simply being weighed down is fair. This would affect certain enemies more than others, granted.

Perhaps, all weapons gain +10-15% HIT by default (reduce overflow hit by half to accompany that). This makes the game a bit more challenging since missing enemies tends to be more annoying (or otherwise non-impacting for the most part) than game changing. While for enemies, them hitting you a lot more often is actually much more detrimental to the player than it is for enemies being hit more. It also helps negate dodge tanking -- one of the most powerful things to abuse in FE where applicable.

This is how you can create a Lunatic mode merely by doing systematic changes as opposed to changing individual maps (that only apply in this mode). I don't think 'Lunatic' necessary needs to be so much more difficult than 'Hard'. But by doing these global changes, can be a really healthy way to introduce extra difficulty. Because you're doing so by limiting the player taking advantage of the strongest things they have access to, but not diminishing the aspects of the game that are not part of those (like viability of weaker units).

Understandably, simply increasing enemy stats does technically make the game more difficult with low effort, but not in ways that are too meaningful. It just forces the player to use cheese tactics or over-levelled/blessed units more often, which counteracts the difficulty. Changing individual maps is certainly time consuming, but there are systematic/mechanical changes that can be considered.

However, whether changes like this still require too much time investment is a factor you still need to consider. I think that even if it's a post-release thing it'll be worth doing that more than just adding a scaled up hard mode on release, but that's just my perspective. Honestly, Hard Mode by itself with a 'Fixed Growth' mode would actually be more meaningful than a scaled up version in Lunatic. Because a big part of combating difficulty is being lucky with a select few units.

I swear I'm not just disagreeing with you for the sake of it.

For locking blessing or applying fixed mode, I don't like what that does to replay-ability. The only variation in blessing lock is dropping characters who fall off, so playthroughs would get remarkable similar in that sense, possibly with players just starting over when too many key units are dropped. For any game other than 7x, I would like fixed mode, but here it would cheapen all my other playthroughs. Encourage ironman/have some sort of scoring based on it if you're worried about cheese factor. But blessing is a part of the game as much as cursing is, and is a large part of what makes playthroughs unique and fresh. Also, yeah, who's clamoring for lunatic? I feel like I'd be first in line, and even I'm fine with ironman hard.

I also don't see globally raising hit as a hindrance to the player. Chaos benefits the enemy, especially on iron mans. Also, Eiry and other low skl characters just shoot through their balance. A switch to a 1RN system would be a bit of a challenge.

As for no AS penalties from wt for enemies, this just seems super arbitrary. A global mt increase would be preferable. But I don't like that either, it also totally throws the balance out of wack.

Enemy AS already varies pretty intensely in 7x, so global stat increases do seem the best way to increase difficulty while keeping all characters viable/increasing balance. It might make some characters unusable against some enemies due to AS, but it will also do that based on lack of def or atk to other characters. 

Edited by deranger2

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13 hours ago, deranger2 said:

I swear I'm not just disagreeing with you for the sake of it.

For locking blessing or applying fixed mode, I don't like what that does to replay-ability. The only variation in blessing lock is dropping characters who fall off, so playthroughs would get remarkable similar in that sense, possibly with players just starting over when too many key units are dropped.

But this is a strategy game, and in a lunatic mode (or any extremely difficult mode of a FE) the "strategy" mostly boils down to just relying on units who got blessed; or in other words, units who are stronger than they are meant to be. You mention that "Eiry and other low skl characters just shoot through their balance" but isn't this kind of contradicting in a sense? Unit shoot through their balance all the time, whether under or over.

If you wanted 'replayability' then just don't choose it and/or not play that mode. But part of said re-playability comes from RNG in other senses, or just using different units in general (or prioritising EXP differently). Fixed growth (and/or penalties for being overleveled or having a high rating) keep units within their own boundaries. Locking stats from being too blessed or too screwed can add some variance if need be, but fixed works even better for this purpose.

Plus, one huge appeal for fixed mode is being able to plan/strategize well in advance (in the same way 0% growths has the same thing). In an environment where the difficulty is at its highest, being able to calculate thresholds of certain units and understanding when/where to utilize units is effectively a huge part of the games sometimes. A fixed mode, or something close to it, really brings out that aspect. And when a game is extremely difficult, then said aspect really does shine. My impression from your argument is that a strategy game needs RNG to have depth, which in a lot of cases (especially in a game with a ranking system), couldn't be further from the truth. In some ways, yes, RNG is purely fun and does add some variance; but less is more (in other terms, a healthy amount) in an environment that has a lot more difficulty. This is why Advanced Wars has its pros over FE. Not that FE needs be become AW, but there's some lessons to be learned from it in regards to having meaningful strategy.

13 hours ago, deranger2 said:

Enemy AS already varies pretty intensely in 7x, so global stat increases do seem the best way to increase difficulty while keeping all characters viable/increasing balance. It might make some characters unusable against some enemies due to AS, but it will also do that based on lack of def or atk to other characters.

I couldn't disagree more. AS often boils down to dealing double damage or receiving double damage; it's a very delicate balance. Enemies dealing 2 or 3 more damage matters far less. Most units 2HKOed before are still being 2HKOed (unless they start to be one-shot which is incredibly unlikely in this game for obvious reasons). The latter still makes things more difficult if need be, but not in a way that disrupts balance to a huge degree.

It's clear that units are balanced around doubling certain enemies either at base level or at a certain level on average. Throw that out of the window and you might just end up with balance on the same level as New Mystery or Awakening. Conquest Lunatic is as well done as it is because enemies barely get any stronger, if at all. Unit balance is extremely close to Hard Mode. I don't think it gets enough credit for that. Not that the unit balance is perfect to begin with -- but it doesn't really change much (which is respectable in a game where the balance is good compared to other games in the series). Enemies have different weaponry/positioning but that works well enough. Not that this is the expectation for 7x, but there are other ways to have a similar direction.

13 hours ago, deranger2 said:

I also don't see globally raising hit as a hindrance to the player. Chaos benefits the enemy, especially on iron mans. Also, Eiry and other low skl characters just shoot through their balance. A switch to a 1RN system would be a bit of a challenge.

It will. There's clear that in SD or New Mystery, it benefits the enemy more than the player. The player missing attacks doesn't invoke strategy or difficulty; it mostly just becomes a matter of playing around it, which does have a level of planning to some degree, but not a meaningful one in a lot of cases (and might just result in a restart where in that playthrough, that miss just... doesn't happen). Enemies hitting more consistently means a lot though, especially since RNG tends to be in your favour. Perhaps 1 RNG would work just as well and/or better but in some ways that can increase variance in ways that doesn't add to the game.

13 hours ago, deranger2 said:

As for no AS penalties from wt for enemies, this just seems super arbitrary. A global mt increase would be preferable. But I don't like that either, it also totally throws the balance out of wack.

Perhaps higher base STR/MAG on enemies is best, but the point I was making is how player units are balanced around doubling, or being doubled by the varying enemy classes in the game. This stays the same regardless of WT penalties, so it doesn't change balance in that regard but does make the game harder. This makes certain enemies more difficult than others, so probably not an ideal solution either way. That much I can agree.

Of course a lot of the suggestions I made had more meaning than others. Gating EXP through unit rating can make a considerable difference to the game's difficulty, more than you'd probably expect. That combined with just STR/MAG/SKL/LUCK (but only these stats) boosts to enemies could be more than enough to create a Lunatic mode. And a fixed mode (or something close to it) even as a separate option on top of that would be brilliant (it basically the same kind of appeal/strategy to 0% growths, but in a way that keeps every unit viable).

Edited by DLuna

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On 10/26/2017 at 6:41 PM, Mistik said:

I saw the new version (Version 0.6.1.1 - Part One (Oct 26, 2017)), does someone know anything about it ? :)

I'm wondering this too.

Edited by Lance-a-lot

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B- We've been updating periodically with minor bugfixes. What we've released so far is a premature build, released for the Snakemom stream. When there's a stable, balanced build (and when android and OSX are properly ready) we'll be making another announcement.

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My only suggestion/criticisms for the latest build would be to cut back a bit on exposition and speed up combat. Some dialogue areas drag on for a bit too long over explaining unnecessary info and complex plot build ups and it feels a bit over the top to the point where I skipped most of the dialogue. Most of the Tristan chapters feel this way and a bit of the Eliza ones. The Prologue in my opinion actually felt too short and I was dying to see more of the events that led up to the Scouring. I would thoroughly recommend condensing dialogue and avoid using the unnecessary thesaurus words. You can have a great story without Eliza getting into the basics of Economy/employment with Brendan and Tristan explaining an entire religion to somebody.  The lore aspects of the dialogue where Brendan is talking about his children (still waiting for those Linus and Lloyd portraits btw lol), Hartmut forging Eckesachs, all the Uther and co. tie-ins, etc. were amazing and I couldn't get enough of them. 

 

As for my other point about speeding up combat in the early game I have to point to chapter 4x as an example. This isn't a challenging chapter, its just simply a boring one. The enemies felt like bullet sponges and in some instances it would take me upward of 5 turns to clear out a group of enemies that attacked me and every time a reinforcement appeared I felt my eyes roll. I would just recommend making the early chapters a bit more lethal where it doesn't take 4 units to kill a brigand (axe users are a pain in Elizas chapter considering the units you have) and definitely cut back on reinforcement use, every chapter has some and they just feel like they drag out how long it takes to end the chapter without any real change in strategy or challenge. 

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14 hours ago, Lance-a-lot said:

(axe users are a pain in Elizas chapter considering the units you have)

I actually didn't have as much of a pain with them, mostly due to how frakkin RNG blessed my Melanie ended up by the end of 4x. Srsly, 15 Str, max Spd and Skl and 13 Def (that is, higher than ANYONE on Eliza's team) + 1-2 range with no problems + all the items she got by stealing. Her only bad stats were Res and HP. She's got to be top tier on Eliza's team.

Back to axe users, you an always sic Brendan with his bow on them to soften them up. My bigger problem was with those damn diviners - too fast to double unless by Melanie or Zephyr, too tough to kill quickly without doubles, and they hit hard (around 15 dmg to pretty much anyone not named Zephyr or William).

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(I hope this is the right place to ask...)

I read somewhere that once FE7x ws done you planned to make your game engine public. Is that still the case?

Either way, you guys are doing an amazing job - keep it up y'alls!

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15 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

(I hope this is the right place to ask...)

I read somewhere that once FE7x ws done you planned to make your game engine public. Is that still the case?

Either way, you guys are doing an amazing job - keep it up y'alls!

Fexna will be released but we don't know when, the game is still the priority but if i remember well, he works on the two :) 

We just need to wait, there is a reddit for Fexna, just google it :) 

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Just a random question~ Are the trial maps future chapters? Meaning, for example,  trial map 1 will be a major chapter in part 2 (obviously balanced to the players stats)? Or are they simply intended to be similar to Prologue chapters to recruit extra units + uncover extra story + character development?

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They're semi-non canon maps originally made to test and get feedback on a lot of the elements that aren't going to be part of part 2. I'd play them without worrying too much about spoilers, don't think any of the dialogue even will be used in the future. Anything you do in the playing of them won't affect that file on part 2, as well. They're quite fun one offs.

Edited by deranger2

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3 hours ago, Rewind said:

How are the gaiden chapters unlocked? I haven't been able to get 4x; do I have to s rank ch. 4?

I'll just say for all - 1x is to not let the boss open the chest. 4x is either visiting all houses in 4 or getting Ella (you DID get her, right?), can't say the exact requirements, 7x is to not let any green units die.

As for ranking requirements... it's possible, I S-ranked it.

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21 hours ago, Kruggov said:

I'll just say for all - 1x is to not let the boss open the chest. 4x is either visiting all houses in 4 or getting Ella (you DID get her, right?), can't say the exact requirements, 7x is to not let any green units die.

As for ranking requirements... it's possible, I S-ranked it.

I'll give it a go Kruggov. Thanks. I didn't get Ella and I didn't get the S rank so I'll try that. I did visit all the houses though.

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1 hour ago, Rewind said:

I'll give it a go Kruggov. Thanks. I didn't get Ella and I didn't get the S rank so I'll try that. I did visit all the houses though.

Why not? I admit, she's not very good (for a bishop), but an extra body is an extra body)

She is in the house, where a party member notes that "it's locked", you have to enter it with Eliza.

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On 12/31/2017 at 12:25 PM, Kruggov said:

Why not? I admit, she's not very good (for a bishop), but an extra body is an extra body)

She is in the house, where a party member notes that "it's locked", you have to enter it with Eliza.

Eliza's not the only one who can visit the house successfully (Zephyr, for example, can). But yeah, even on the discord 4x requirements haven't been hashed out.

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