Skill Vs. Skill thread rounds 1-4

[Florete]

I don't see how that stuff is not being taken into consideration.

[Zerker]

I don't see how that stuff is not being taken into consideration.

Rules: (subject to change)

-The skills are based on the game play of the skill, and which is better in most situations in which they are both usable by the same character. (Don't factor Stahl into Luna-Ignis arguments) Unless I say differently, availability can be used as an argument. I'll say so in the thread if there is an exception.

-Don't bring skill pairings into the decision (Luck+4 going well with armsthrift doesn't make armsthrift better)

[Florete]

Good point.

The skill availability thing is weird and I'm not even sure I really get it.

I do agree with you on skill pairings, though. I mean, how are we supposed to judge Rightful King if skills are supposed to be in a void?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Zerker]

I do agree with you on skill pairings, though. I mean, how are we supposed to judge Rightful King is skills are supposed to be in a void?

lol

We'll do that once Rey gets his hands on a 3DS debugger

XD

[shadykid]

Good point.

The skill availability thing is weird and I'm not even sure I really get it.

I do agree with you on skill pairings, though. I mean, how are we supposed to judge Rightful King is skills are supposed to be in a void?

Rightful King by itself is worthless, 0/10

[LunaSaint]

I don't see how Aether loses, here. Not only does Aether provide Sol healing, but the Luna component also makes up for the extra 0.5 attack most of the time.

In situations where half an attack beats Luna, you're probably killing them with the Aether anyway.

[shadykid]

Astra is superior because Inigo slowly taking down Anna through the Counter damage looks epic

[Melonhead]

I do agree with you on skill pairings, though. I mean, how are we supposed to judge Rightful King if skills are supposed to be in a void?

lol

I wasn't really planning on putting rightful king into this for those reasons, so not ALL skills are gonna take part in this. Kinda hard to put galeforce into this discussion.

First of all, each skill has it's own situation where it may or not may not be more effective that the other.

For example, (STR)Luna will be more effective against a General with high DEF than Ignis is, but Ignis will be more effective against a target with a large amount of HP and a small amount of DEF than Luna is.

The thread is currently trying to compare and contrast skills without factoring stats into the calculations such as the skill user and the target, which as most of you probably already know, can be fatal in-game.

Just because Ignis could be better, doesn't mean we use ignis in all ways over luna. It's just that some people may find ignis to be more helpful in more situations; Luna isn't worthless, and is helpful in other situations.

The point of the thread was just to see how people liked the different skills, and showed what people preferred over others.

Second of all, skill availability is not much of an issue once the player gets to the point of having grinding available through Reeking Boxes and DLC, which occurs after completion of Chapter 4, therefore a vast majority of resources are available to the player early on in the game, and Spotpass allows players to obtain, for example, a ridiculously large amount of Ignis-brandishing units, so skill availability becomes a minor factor from that point on.

True, but I kinda assumed most people don't use tons of spotpass units. In theory, we could just buy someone like King Marth with golden gaffe or risen grinding and just solo the entire game. But we don't.

Lastly, skill combinations should come into play, if not in this thread then in another, because it's quite rare to find units in-game with, for example, only the Aether skill equipped, or Ignis alone, and so on. If the need to judge skills arises, it should be done in a realistic manner, not in a way with restrictions and rules that the game itself does not impose upon the player.

Kinda went into this not really knowing what to expect-I do agree with this, but I'm not really sure how to implement it. "If a skill generally works better with other skills, take that into consideration" something like that?

Anyway, that's my rant. I'll try to change the rules around a bit so they are more user friendly. Didn't put "subject to change" for no reason :P

Edited May 30, 2013 by Melonhead

[shadykid]

Galeforce vs Rally Spectrum....maybe?

not

[Zerker]

lol

I wasn't really planning on putting rightful king into this for those reasons, so not ALL skills are gonna take part in this. Kinda hard to put galeforce into this discussion.

Just because Ignis could be better, doesn't mean we use ignis in all ways over luna. It's just that some people may find ignis to be more helpful in more situations; Luna isn't worthless, and is helpful in other situations.

The point of the thread was just to see how people liked the different skills, and showed what people preferred over others.

True, but I kinda assumed most people don't use tons of spotpass units. In theory, we could just buy someone like King Marth with golden gaffe or risen grinding and just solo the entire game. But we don't.

Kinda went into this not really knowing what to expect-I do agree with this, but I'm not really sure how to implement it. "If a skill generally works better with other skills, take that into consideration" something like that?

Anyway, that's my rant. I'll try to change the rules around a bit so they are more user friendly. Didn't put "subject to change" for no reason :P

<3

Also, I think you should do skill combinations that revolve around Rightful King as some sort of "Round" or something along those lines.

[shadykid]

Ignis is holding much closer than I thought it would....

lolastra

Edited May 30, 2013 by shadykid

[Raine]

Ignis, as stated before, is epic when the person is smart. Ignis requires carrying around a tome and a weapon and switching for each opponent so that you're attacking their weakest stat. Likewise, Luna doesn't take any thought power to use since you can essentially attack anything and potentially do a lot of damage. So of course more people are going to vote Luna than Ignis-- but apparently there are a lot of smart people here as well. Ignis gives you more adaptability and thus should be in the lead as far as strength of the skill goes-- but eh, don't much matter.

[euklyd]

Regarding Astra vs. Aether, most or all of what I have to say has already been said, but I'm gonna repeat that the Sol half of Aether is, for me, better than that extra half attack anyways, and that's before factoring in the Luna half of Aether.

This doesn't affect my vote, but I'm gonna point out that Aether is significantly more exclusive a skill than Ignis, and nobody is complaining about that. Although I think that this issue was already settled, so there's no need to bring it up...

As far as Rightful King, I'm of the opinion that it should still be part of the thread, and that you can just make an exception for skill combos for that round of voting.

Galeforce vs Rally Spectrum....maybe?

not

Galeforce vs. Veteran, because we already have a very entertaining thread about that, and I see no problem with bringing a spectator sport to this thread (I have some popcorn ready, too).

[shadykid]

Galeforce vs. Veteran, because we already have a very entertaining thread about that, and I see no problem with bringing a spectator sport to this thread (I have some popcorn ready, too).

but that's too easy in favor of Veteran

this is the problem, every skill is either a lot better (ok like 2-3 skills) or a lot worse than Galeforce

[Donnel]

For me, it really just depends on circumstance. If we're talking about potential, Astra takes my vote simply because you can activate and sup-activate sol/luna over the astra activation-- not to mention have the chance to crit on each attack individually. You know that 1.5x damage you're talking about? potentially, the astra activation could net for MUCH more and depending on the base damage could turn an unastounding 16 damage into a lethal attack-- on consecutive crits alone.

If we're talking about white room the characters are only outfitted with the skill, Aether wins hands down.

With Aegis+ and Pavise+, Astra deals 1-3 damage per hit, and on crits become 3-9.

If crits for all, that's only like 15-45 damage, compares to the luna in Aether, the damage dealt usually is more than 10 without criticals, and heals.

Upon activation Aether wins by large margin, but if proc chances are included, probably Astra tie. I'll still think Aether is better to take advantage of Rightful King.

Ike's signature move also value adds.

[Raine]

alright, by the same logic you'd be doing 6 damage for your Sol and more for your luna. For Astra you can have up to an 80% chance of activating Luna for each attackc (probably higher) and end up doing far more damage than Aether under the same circumstances. Five attacks-- four of them procing Luna and a portion of them perhaps even critting whereas you've got two attacks with Aether both of which are predetermined as a luna and sol. Your sol gets you 3 HP. Is it really worth it against the same circumstances as you're implying on Astra?

Btw, Rightful King + Luna + Astra = destruction incarnate-- especially with someone with a high crit chance (pair the person with Anathema, Dual Support+ and maybe throw on Gamble for their fourth skill for good measure)

Edited May 30, 2013 by Raine

[Donnel]

alright, by the same logic you'd be doing 6 damage for your Sol and more for your luna. For Astra you can have up to an 80% chance of activating Luna for each attackc (probably higher) and end up doing far more damage than Aether under the same circumstances.

Eh, you can't proc 2nd skills within Astra. Unless I interpret your reply wrongly. Astra only can critical within multiple hits. I'll take Astra if it can have separate activation. Astra + Lethality ftw.

[Raine]

I'll look into that.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Raine

[euklyd]

but that's too easy in favor of Veteran

this is the problem, every skill is either a lot better (ok like 2-3 skills) or a lot worse than Galeforce

I don't care which way it goes, the entertainment is what I'm after.

A matchup I'd be interested in would be Sol vs. Galeforce - although I think only on Lunatic is there any sort of contest.

Actually, I wonder what Sol would be good to compare against...maybe Renewal or Lifetaker, probably not.

Now, a fun comparison would be between -breaker skills, because that would devolve into an argument about which weapon type is strongest...

I'll look into that.

An easy way to confirm is to have, say, Astra + Vengeance on a unit with ≥50 Skill, because it becomes obvious that Vengeance won't proc on an Astra hit, despite a 100+% activation rate.

In fact, there's even a topic about this.

[Donnel]

I don't care which way it goes, the entertainment is what I'm after.

A matchup I'd be interested in would be Sol vs. Galeforce - although I think only on Lunatic is there any sort of contest.

Actually, I wonder what Sol would be good to compare against...maybe Renewal or Lifetaker, probably not.

Now, a fun comparison would be between -breaker skills, because that would devolve into an argument about which weapon type is strongest...

An easy way to confirm is to have, say, Astra + Vengeance on a unit with ≥50 Skill, because it becomes obvious that Vengeance won't proc on an Astra hit, despite a 100+% activation rate.

In fact, there's even a topic about this.

Now that will be a chaos seed.

Prepares popcorn.

[singularity]

Ignis vs. Luna - Luna has more availability and better post-game, but Ignis is also pretty good(especially if you use hybrid classes like War Monk and GM) and better on main-game(because fixed damage). Luna works wonders on high-defense enemies(and Aversa's Paralogue) though. Luna gets my vote here(also Luna has the lance version).

Aether vs. Astra - Although with Brave weapons, you could hit a whoppin' 20 hits with Astra, but Counter makes it all redundant. Aether wins here, because it's basically Sol+Luna. Plus, with RK it could proc more.

Now what skills will be paired with Sol?

[Aethel]

As always, I've yet to finish the latter DLCs and my Lunatic+ run (and the three runs I've made were basically about enjoying the storyline, making pair-ups, and testing the skill-legacy thing haha, and breeding galeforce squad), but I'd go for Aether. That healing is always pretty handy, plus the Luna effect that was already talked about in this topic. Astra's cool, and stuff, don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed Astra a lot since I got it first in Radiant Dawn, but I think Aether is better (not taking Rightful King into account).

[Melonhead]

Now what skills will be paired with Sol?

I wasn't really sure on that, my best guess was going to be vengeance vs. sol, as both skills kinda feed off of being damaged, but it would be kinda one sided.

[Tamanoir]

I wasn't really sure on that, my best guess was going to be vengeance vs. sol, as both skills kinda feed off of being damaged, but it would be kinda one sided.

Sol VS the winner between Luna and Ignis ? Do you prefer more damage or heal ? Still not the best choice.

Sol VS Lifetaker is interresting because both skill heals you when you damage the ennemy. Though, I guess Sol will probably still be the winner here...

[Melonhead]

Aegis: Halves damage from bows, tomes and dragonstones. [skillstat]% Paladin Lv. 15

Pavise: Halves damage from swords, lances, axes (includes magical variants) and beaststones. [skillstat]% General Lv. 15

Rule changes: If skills generally work better with others, it can be taken into account, but keep the focus on the main skills.

Rightful King can be used in all situations as an argument. (If a skill is better with rightful king, that makes it better)

-

Onto round 3, Aegis and Pavise are more defensive skills, halving damage from specific types.

Pavise is a bit nicer for just generic blocking damage, but Aegis can block those weaknesses from bows, and makes magic damage sting a bit less.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Melonhead