Vykan_12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I was just playing C15 today and came close to a 4 turn under speedrun constraints, so a 3 turn seems pretty plausible to me given a fully raised team + warp/rescue shenanigans. If you managed to get just 1 kill short, then I'd be willing to met money it's possible. One thing that might help: If you get into the eclipse shaman's 1-2 range and nobody is in his 3-10 range, you can take him out on enemy phase. This is helpful as there's a spot you can take out a troubadour at 2-range while still being in the shaman's 2-range. Really the main issue with the map is dealing with the southeast corner, mostly because of the distance, the 2 troubadours, the fenrir shaman and of course Valter. Dealing with Caellach and the remaining enemies should be trivial. As long as you can warp 2 overpowered units into Valter's territory (turns 1&2), you should be able to pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 I have way too many characters in the Shaman's range actually, so he needs to be taken out on player phase, and there are plenty more characters whom it is preferrable to KO on PP as well given the limitations of the run (Artur needing to use Barrier for the 2nd time on the map, Tethys finding herself in wyvern rider's range, Caellach requiring a crit, Dozla requiring a crit and there are some enemies up north whom Rennac needs to crit as well, so I need to to make turn 3 EP counterkills possible by cleaning up on PP early). Whiffs and Ross not ORKOing were some of the problems I faced down south. The southern portion of the map actually ended up being the least of my concerns (I didn't have as much trouble figuring out how to go about routing it as much I had trouble with the RNG) and it was Caellach's and peg reinforcements' areas that I struggled with the most. I got Warp the last minute and Moulder only has a warp range of 6. But it's not like crossing the desert area with foot units is THAT bad; Saleh can move quite far on his own for example. I'm done with the map now; 3-turned as expected. Just need to record it now. Moulder did not hit 14 magic since I couldn't feed him any promoted enemies, but it looks like I need 26 / 12 mag for my warpers rather than 24 / 14, so Artur will be the one eating an Energy Ring, as he didn't get enough action in C14-15 due to needing to spam staves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Is the 1-turn clear of Chp 16 possible without mounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Don't see why it wouldn't be pos... Curse you Orson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 That pic begs a lot of questions. What is Ross' str? Artur's mag? Who got the boots? Did Ross rig a crit, two? Can you re-do earlier chapters to get better level-ups for the likes of Ross, Moulder, Artur? I see a possibility of attacking Orson at 1-range but I can't judge anything without knowing your precise unit stats / situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 You're right; if Artur caps his mag at 28 and Ross is given the Swiftsole, Ross can reach Orson and engage him at point-blank range. In that image, Ross was attacking Orson with a Hatchet, connecting both hits and critting once. He would've whiffed with a Hand Axe. Since Orson proc'd 15 defence instead of 14, he wasn't 4HKO'd. Eventually, I did manage to get a 14 def Orson whom I was able to connect twice with a Hand Axe anyway (burned RNs by triggering random encounters and running away from them), critting once. I'm kinda sad how Ross is so far from his strength cap this late into the game, and that's after receiving one of my remaining Energy Rings. Lyon is a tough bastard to pierce though I should have decent crit against him even without the Killer Axe (though it's still a possible alternative over Garm). I'm pretty sure I will be one-rounding Morva with ease though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 That's pretty cool that you managed to 3 turn the desert. You sounded like it was very rage-worthy yesterday in the PM :P. And I guess Ross is getting the boots, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 What PKL is referring to: CH15 is so bullshit: - Artur and Saleh like dying when going south - Ross whiffs sword users - Ross sometimes needs crit to ORKO because enemies are bulky - Garcia LOVES whiffing the western Shaman (he needs to connect both Hand Axe attacks which are inaccurate as fuck) - Rennac likes getting into KO range and whiffing myrmidons - if some of them whiff, I need to crit like three times on turn 3 enemy phase and I only have two Killing Edges - I need to clear a bunch of enemies for Ross to approach Caellach (who also requires a crit) It was pretty bad, and I needed to burn a dozen or so RNs for turn 3 enemy phase, and that's after getting a Shine crit with Moulder on a wyvern rider (9%) and some other less impossible things. And yeah, if Ross doesn't take the Swiftsole, he can't reach Orson. Do you folks think I should even try going for the chapter 18 4-turn? afaik it's never been done before on HM (could be wrong); my reach is limited with no mounts and only one good warper and I don't have siege tomes since I warpskipped chapter 16. I have no clue what Hawk King and Horace mean when they say it can be 4-turned because I've never seen it even close (you rout just barely on turn 5 from my experiences). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 What PKL is referring to: It was pretty bad, and I needed to burn a dozen or so RNs for turn 3 enemy phase, and that's after getting a Shine crit with Moulder on a wyvern rider (9%) and some other less impossible things. And yeah, if Ross doesn't take the Swiftsole, he can't reach Orson. Do you folks think I should even try going for the chapter 18 4-turn? afaik it's never been done before on HM (could be wrong); my reach is limited with no mounts and only one good warper and I don't have siege tomes since I warpskipped chapter 16. I have no clue what Hawk King and Horace mean when they say it can be 4-turned because I've never seen it even close (you rout just barely on turn 5 from my experiences). I think it might be possible with sieging, maybe. But you almost never obtain Purge in LTC so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 For C18, this may be of help: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 For C18, this may be of help: He's not using mounts, though, so I'm not sure how that exactly helps him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thats a 3 turn, he's aiming for 4. I think a bigger problem is less warpers and no seige magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan_12 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) Durr, but he has an extra turn to work with to compensate for movement loss. From that 3 turn you can extrapolate that: -A lot of warping and seige toming is required, using a lot of mag users. Efficient trades are a must. -Longbow attacks are surprisingly useful (eg/ countering the gorgon's stone attack) Since you only have a 10 (12?) mag Moulder and a juiced up Artur, and apparently no seige tomes, the best you can probably hope for is a 5 turn. Edit: Looking at the finale, your 22 str Garm!Ross does 68/73 damage to Lyon with a hit+crit. Make sure he hits 24 str since Lyon comes close to 1HKOing him, meaning 2 rounds of combat are pretty much out of the question. Edited October 28, 2013 by Vykan_12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 My stats as of chapter 18 for reference are as follows (posting only the ones that make a difference in turn-shaving since AS is mostly a non-issue unless I feel like playing dodgetank against Naglfar): 28 mag Artur 13 mag Moulder 26 str Ross (I guess that's a sure 4HKO against Lyon with Garm then) Saleh is still working on getting to B staves; he never proc'd mag on this run and I didn't really try either. I think by now I've shown that mounts aren't as turn-saving as we like to think (though if you compare this run to Horace's latest the difference in turn count is sometimes pretty noticeable), but the reason why Rolanmen's video doesn't help much is probably: - the HM reinforcements (they block your way sometimes, so you can't just counterkill them on EP because you need to make way past them) - the really big difference in the number of Gorgon eggs between NM and HM all of which need to be destroyed during player phases - I kinda, um, have just one good warper in Artur, whereas in the video you see 6 or something? Yeah, that can't work out - no sieging tomes and no mounts/canto, but 8 move Ross is close enough I guess - this is a continuous run therefore I can't afford to break my warp staff or repair it too early I'm also acquainted with beamcrash's low-turn on a continuous run, but he also played on Normal Mode with significantly less eggs and no reinforcements, plus he played on the Japanese version with buyable siege tomes and stat boosters - he also got some enemies killed by lava, which seems impossible to manipulate (?). From experience, a 5-turn is pretty tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Why the hell does that Mogall at the end of the video attack Gerik at range? I was just speculating that a 4 turn was possible. Based on that video, im not so sure anymore. 5-turning has always been pretty easy in drafts with just 1 Warper so thats why I thought that 4 might be possible with a full team and 2-3 warpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Gotta love how the boss Gorgon (L15) in C18 has 20 mag while the regular ones (L5) often have 26. Because of Shadowshot, can't really afford to warp some of the frailer characters like Eirika or Colm until those doods are dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Haha, im playing Disgaea D2 right now. Prinnies are the best, dood. Will you be able to 5 turn it? You probably want to work in a couple Rescue staff uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Gotta love how the boss Gorgon (L15) in C18 has 20 mag while the regular ones (L5) often have 26. Because of Shadowshot, can't really afford to warp some of the frailer characters like Eirika or Colm until those doods are dead. 26 mag? that's actually competent, wtf? Recruit them for warp Edited October 29, 2013 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 The video for chapter 15's 3-turn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbow Skittles Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 aw yeah you have warp! i'm guessing artur's your main user b/c he has highest magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That was very demanding. While you're proving non-mounts can compete in turns in FE8, the strats are a lot less flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 aw yeah you have warp! i'm guessing artur's your main user b/c he has highest magic. Yeah, and he hit A staves on the last turn of the map. Needed Tethys's dance to make it happen. That was very demanding. While you're proving non-mounts can compete in turns in FE8, the strats are a lot less flexible. They're less flexible only insofar as the need to shave off turns is concerned, though. The same can be seen within the constraints of a full party run for example, as you would also be pushed to limit yourself to some of the same characters if minimum turn count were the aim (train Franz, Vanessa, get to a A staves with Artur). One very vivid advantage of a run with a proficient tome user over an efficiency run without a very good one (lacking the ability to double or OHKO Rangers for example) would be the difficulty to double, 2HKO and connect attacks on a group of enemies. For example, even with nearly (or exactly) capped Strength, Seth will have difficulty one-rounding wyverns (unless he switches to the Spear, of which you have few uses unproportional to the number of difficult-to-slay enemies). Even if we talk blessed Seth vs blessed Ross, Ross's chances of critting one of the two attacks will be much higher (meanwhile, Seth doesn't even get to S-rank lances because swords are preferred for a more reliable endgame). But yeah, a run without mounts is more limited than an unrestricted one, pretty much by definition I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Tethys is much more valuable when there are no mounts. The earlier maps TCs are much higher than a full party playthrough, but once Tethys arrives the gap closes. Youre going to end up with a TC under 100 which is pretty good. Edited October 31, 2013 by Hawk King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Tethys does all these turn-shaving things on any other run where she's present though - extending movement and helping staffers spam staves more. I wonder what my turn count would've been like if Seth were a Warrior or a Berserker or something. The early turn counts would've been considerably lower, the midgame quite good and the endgame pulled off perfectly (presumably; not quite done with it yet, and C18 could cause a discrepancy). And yeah, I am getting a total TC under 100 after all huh? I believe only like 3 people voted for that on the first poll (and that's before I revealed I wouldn't be using Orson in Ephraim's 5x, which is where most of my turns ended up being lost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I honestly really like Gerik as a Ranger. Is that bad, or is Hero just a ton better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.