MCProductions Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Given that, I can't help but entertain the notion that after the events of New Mystery, Chris went wandering and accidentally founded a cult of evil dragon worshipers. I always knew Chris had problem heck, Mark just outright disapears in all 3 of his endings in FE7. He possibly/improbably wound up thru the dragon's Gate and in Archenea. Why, well why not. then if you leave Ninian unpaired she becomes your Waifu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misses Elise-chan! Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 New theory, Einherjar cards are created using the same magic as Morphs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 New theory, Einherjar cards are created using the same magic as Morphs. This actually explains Chrom's dialouge at the end of Lost Bloodlines 3. "The grasses here have seen enough red" this quip always confused me because I assumed that when defeated Einherjar just become Cards again and therefore don't bleed.Unless you actually let someone die monster. However, Morths as far as can be told in a E-rated game DO bleed, so if the Einherjar are upgraded morths it explains this inconsistancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Einherjar are hero's spirits sealed into cards. This can only be done after they die, it would seem. Morphs/possibly War Dragons are made by stealing raw life force and using it to create mockeries of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Uh, Hubba in Champions of Yore says that Einherjar are NOT the actual spirts of the characters, that that would just be silly. He goes on to say that its a reflection of the man or woman they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) Uh, Hubba in Champions of Yore says that Einherjar are NOT the actual spirts of the characters, that that would just be silly. He goes on to say that its a reflection of the man or woman they were.1. He says it isn't "THE Hero-King", but that could could very well be his way of expressing that they aren't the living and breathing type of them. 2. The etymology is on my side: Noun einherjar (Norse mythology) the undead spirits of warriors who died bravely in battle, brought to Valhalla by the valkyries, where they eternally feast and prepare daily for the inevitable events of Ragnarok. 3. A reflection of a self can be a spirit. spirit noun the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul. If these cards contain reflections of a person's character/skills, it falls in the definition nicely. This actually explains Chrom's dialouge at the end of Lost Bloodlines 3. "The grasses here have seen enough red" this quip always confused me because I assumed that when defeated Einherjar just become Cards again and therefore don't bleed.Unless you actually let someone die monster. However, Morths as far as can be told in a E-rated game DO bleed, so if the Einherjar are upgraded morths it explains this inconsistancy. 4. Chrom could have been speaking of all the fighting, even if the Einherjar didn't bleed (blood is usually used as a way of showing that a battle occurred). He can be speaking literally, but all things considered that's unlikely. 5. 英霊の魔符 means Spirit Talisman, according to FE Wiki. Edited March 10, 2015 by Glaceon Armamentalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) 1. He says it isn't "THE Hero-King", but that could could very well be his way of expressing that they aren't the living and breathing type of them. 2. The etymology is on my side: 3. A reflection of a self can be a spirit. If these cards contain reflections of a person's character/skills, it falls in the definition nicely. 4. Chrom could have been speaking of all the fighting, even if the Einherjar didn't bleed (blood is usually used as a way of showing that a battle occurred). He can be speaking literally, but all things considered that's unlikely. 5. 英霊の魔符 means Spirit Talisman, according to FE Wiki. Considering Valkyries promote from Troubadours, I don't think using name origin can give much support in this series. It being the actual souls of the warriors also wouldn't make much sense since you can multiple copies of the same hero and you can even get Tiki's Einherjar even though she is clearly still living and breathing (well provided you don't let her die). Edited March 10, 2015 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Considering Valkyries promote from Troubadours, I don't think using name origin can give much support in this series. It being the actual souls of the warriors also wouldn't make much sense since you can multiple copies of the same hero and you can even get Tiki's Einherjar even though she is clearly still leaving and breathing (well provided you don't let her die).I actually forgot about Tiki, whoops. The point still stands for the most part though, as even though FE loves willy nilly mythology references, it is pretty clear that the Translators got the name from the Norse term. Given their nature, it's not a reference just for the sake of it like Igrene being named for King Arthur's mother. Also, they only ever get real personality in DLC, so I normally consider those the real ones. They can be copies of the spirits, but I don't think the copying works like the Dark Magic Nergal used for the morphs. There's too many differences in their nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 That and Hubba says that the cards DON'T contain the oringinal being or their spirts(as much as I want them too, I want Lyn as my waifu). Thus eliminating your claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Old Hubba They are Einherjar! Phantoms of a sort... Chrom You mean...ghosts? Old Hubba No time to explain all that! The important part is that they are out for blood! MY blood, in fact! The blood inside of me! Which is where I'd quite like it to stay. Chrom Fear not, Old Hubba. We will join you and help fight off these phant— Old Hubba Oh, yes, about that... I have this trick knee, you see, and I just ran all the way here... Also, my eyesight's horrible, just horrible. ...Did I mention my knee? In any case, I'd better sit this one out. Oh, but I can help with support! I'll stand behind the lady soldiers and watch their backsides. ...Er, their backs! And here, I'll summon a few Einherjar of my own to help fight beside you... Chrom Wait, you're going to what now? Old Hubba Hear me, O ruler of ancient Altea and true lord of the Seven Realms... I summon thee, Marth, the Hero-King! Come forth and grant us your protection! Marth As you wish. I will answer your call. Chrom Marth? ...As in THE Marth? ...What in blazes is going on? "phantoms" Old Hubba Ah, yes, of course. Right then... So these calling cards that summon the Einherjar...they're a sort of family heirloom. My ancestors have guarded them since...well, as long as anyone can remember. Each card contains a record of one of history's most valiant and glorious heroes. They do not conjure up the actual person, of course. That would just be silly! It's more akin to...a mirror image, of sorts. A reflection of the man or woman they were. This is the text you cited. They have to be able to reflect the character. Not possible with morphs. Not the actual person means a copy, granted. However, they do have to reflect the character's original being. Which a morph would not do. The morphs in "Light" never said a word, failing to recognize Nino or the lords. It'smade very clear that morphs are much, much more shallow than Einherjar are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I actually forgot about Tiki, whoops. The point still stands for the most part though, as even though FE loves willy nilly mythology references, it is pretty clear that the Translators got the name from the Norse term. Given their nature, it's not a reference just for the sake of it like Igrene being named for King Arthur's mother. Also, they only ever get real personality in DLC, so I normally consider those the real ones. They can be copies of the spirits, but I don't think the copying works like the Dark Magic Nergal used for the morphs. There's too many differences in their nature. Oh I have no doubt they have taken inspiration from Norse mythology and that the name is meaningful. I just believe it shouldn't be taken as literal. I think this morph theory is pretty good. Tiki's Einherjar (who also appears in the DLC maps with speaking lines) alone proves that these are not the straight up souls of the dead and only some kind of imitation. Given that morphs are artificial creatures (sometimes) made in imitation of the dead, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe they're created in a similar way. It doesn't mean they have to be the exact same thing. Saying morphs are more shallow isn't strictly true since Nergal's Elite Morphs showed plenty of personalty, especially Sonia. Edited March 10, 2015 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Oh I have no doubt they have taken inspiration from Norse mythology and that the name is meaningful. I just believe it shouldn't be taken as literal. Fair enough I think this morph theory is pretty good. Tiki's Einherjar (who also appears in the DLC maps with speaking lines) alone proves that these are not the straight up souls of the dead and only some kind of imitation. I already ceded that it had to be a copy, but it would seem based on Tiki's that it can be done with a living being's memories Given that morphs are artificial creatures (sometimes) made in imitation of the dead AS outright mockeries of all of them. It would be rather cruel and disrespectful of Hubba's ancestors if they used mass amounts of Quintessence to imitate the looks and personalities of ancient heroes. , I don't think it's unreasonable to believe they're created in a similar way. It doesn't mean they have to be the exact same thing. Saying morphs are more shallow isn't strictly true since Nergal's Elite Morphs showed plenty of personalty, especially Sonia. Fair point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hmm, I wonder tho if they did need to use as much quientessence tho, considering Einherjar are possibly upgraded versions of morphs they possibly woudn't need as much quintessence due to not always having to maintain human form, similer to the manaketes and their inability to maintain dragon forms, Einherjar don't need nearly as much quientessence as morphs due to their card forms not requireing much if any energy to maintain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hmm, I wonder tho if they did need to use as much quientessence tho, considering Einherjar are possibly upgraded versions of morphs they possibly woudn't need as much quintessence due to not always having to maintain human form, similer to the manaketes and their inability to maintain dragon forms, Einherjar don't need nearly as much quientessence as morphs due to their card forms not requireing much if any energy to maintain.They'd still need a lot of Quintessence to be made to begin with. Tbh, that would be very disrespectful, especially to FE6/7's protagonists, to make imitations of them with people's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) This family seems to govern the multiverse. What should they care if a few people should disappear here and there throughout the infinite realms? (Alternatively it could have just been collected from battlefields like Nergal intended to do. Morally speaking it would only be as monstrous as robbing a corpse, provided they didn't incite a war to do it. Disrespectful maybe, but we have no idea what kind of people the Einherjar creators were like). Edited March 10, 2015 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 This family seems to govern the multiverse. What should they care if a few people should disappear here and there throughout the infinite realms? (Alternatively it could have just been collected from battlefields like Nergal intended to do. Morally speaking it would only be as monstrous as robbing a corpse, provided they didn't incite a war to do it. Disrespectful maybe, but we have no idea what kind of people the Einherjar creators were like). Making that many cards needs far more than a few people, they'd need a lot. Espcially since these beings are more akin to stronger morphs like Sonia than faceless mook morphs or Denning, who probably didn't require as much effort. Battlefields are a working solution, still a bit disrespectful toward the heroes who all wanted the bloodshed they went through to end, but it's still about the same as the other way if these people caused the wars they got the Quintessence from like Nergal tried to do. I guess they could have been bi***es but that isn't a very pleasant thought about people who worked to preserve heroes strength for future generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A couple of thousand is only a few if you're talking about the multiverse. That's what I was trying to imply but it seems I didn't get it across adequately. One possibly idea is that this counsel of Hubbas (that's what I'm calling it) monitor all the wars in the universe so that when a war occurs, they immortalize the great heroes of it (good or bad) using all the deaths that occur. Of course this wouldn't really work for FE7 since Nergal was actively harvesting all the deaths in that game and large scale war never even broke out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A couple of thousand is only a few if you're talking about the multiverse. That's what I was trying to imply but it seems I didn't get it across adequately. One possibly idea is that this counsel of Hubbas (that's what I'm calling it) monitor all the wars in the universe so that when a war occurs, they immortalize the great heroes of it (good or bad) using all the deaths that occur. Of course this wouldn't really work for FE7 since Nergal was actively harvesting all the deaths in that game and large scale war never even broke out. Makes sense, I guess they could have borrowed some of the FE6 quintessence for FE7, or possibly some other war that just happened to take place at the same time. I petition, we shall call it the Hubba Olympians Unrelated thing: Three of Ninian's Dancer rings have Japanese names based off Crusaders from FE4. Fala's Strength, Thor's Anger, Sety's Prayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misses Elise-chan! Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 "phantoms"This is the text you cited.They have to be able to reflect the character. Not possible with morphs.Not the actual person means a copy, granted. However, they do have to reflect the character's original being. Which a morph would not do. The morphs in "Light" never said a word, failing to recognize Nino or the lords. It'smade very clear that morphs are much, much more shallow than Einherjar are.A morph could reflect a character's original being if the creator installed that way of thinking into it. Nergal was evil, so of course a flesh puppet would behave similarly to it's creator, that creator being shallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Those rings confuse the HECK out of me because I buy into the Nils is Forseti theroy, but the rings are clearly dragon relics, heck Ninian outright says Ninis grace was a gift from her mother,(who SPOILER ALERT is both dead and married to Nergal). So those rings are in my opinion another example of fanservice confusing people who overanalize everything, like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Those rings confuse the HECK out of me because I buy into the Nils is Forseti theroy, but the rings are clearly dragon relics, heck Ninian outright says Ninis grace was a gift from her mother,(who SPOILER ALERT is both dead and married to Nergal). So those rings are in my opinion another example of fanservice confusing people who overanalize everything, like me Maybe the names are predictions of the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Or they're just common dragon names in dragon culture and the Holy War dragons weren't the first to have them. So basically it'd be the equivalent of Bob's Might and the great lord of the winds Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Or they're just common dragon names in dragon culture and the Holy War dragons weren't the first to have them. So basically it'd be the equivalent of Bob's Might and the great lord of the winds Michael. I don't know why but this made me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't know why but this made me laugh.Great Lord of the Winds Michael would make anyone from a place where the name is common laugh. So long as it sounds abnormal, naming gods is simple. You don't name them Bob the god of flame, Joe the blizzard god, you think of more impressive names for such characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 and eventually you decide on fanservice even tho, the majority of the audience in this title has never played a FE before. lol wait there's another awakening flaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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