[NEW] FE4 Skill Tier List

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

@TTPK_Tal

Ah alright. Fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding. I still think that lance lock is a significant problem for Finn in the first two chapters simply because right out the gate the enemies are dealing 12 damage with an 86% hit rate, but after Verdane it doesn't really matter.

My main argument for pursuit being the best is that although lots of units like Cuan, Ethlin, Lex, Levin, Dew and Sylvia are the best without pursuit, the skills that make them good are more diverse. Cuan is great because he's the only unit with the same movement as Sigurd at first and has really good defenses once trained. Ethlin is good because of mounted staff access. Lex is good because of elite, hero axe, and high defense and strength. Levin is just a monster statistically even pre holsety, and continue and critical mostly makes up for his lack of pursuit, so that's points for him. Sylvia is good because of dance and Dew is good because of steal and the give command. Many units can be powerful in spite of pursuit, but so many other units gain huge benefit from it (Sigurd, Celice, a promoted Lachesis/Leif, Midir, Fin, &c.) If there was a single skill that made all the strong pursuit-less units amazing I would be alright with it dropping a few rungs, but since those units' skillets are so diverse, I think pursuit still reigns supreme.

Edited March 8, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Moishe Oofnik]

@TTPK_Tal

Ah alright. Fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding. I still think that lance lock is a significant problem for Finn in the first two chapters simply because right out the gate the enemies are dealing 12 damage with an 86% hit rate, but after Verdane it doesn't really matter.

My main argument for pursuit being the best is that although lots of units like Cuan, Ethlin, Lex, Levin, Dew and Sylvia are the best without pursuit, the skills that make them good are more diverse. Cuan is great because he's the only unit with the same movement as Sigurd at first and has really good defenses once trained. Ethlin is good because of mounted staff access. Lex is good because of elite, hero axe, and high defense and strength. Levin is just a monster statistically even pre holsety, and continue and critical mostly makes up for his lack of pursuit, so that's points for him. Sylvia is good because of dance and Dew is good because of steal and the give command. Many units can be powerful in spite of pursuit, but so many other units gain huge benefit from it (Sigurd, Celice, a promoted Lachesis/Leif, Midir, Fin, &c.) If there was a single skill that made all the strong pursuit-less units amazing I would be alright with it dropping a few rungs, but since those units' skillets are so diverse, I think pursuit still reigns supreme.

dew

dew

He is only a money gathering machine and a great father he has no other utility at all pursuit is an offensive skill dew isnt doing anything in offence

but agreed

Edited March 8, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I think Ambush should be higher than the sword skills (so Astra) if we're taking into account the units that get skills. As you said, the first question anyone asks in FE4 is whether a unit has a horse, and if they have a horse, they can't have a sword skill. On the other hand Ambush is I think really underrated. Even if your unit doesn't have Wrath, you can just slap a Hero weapon on them. In Gen 1, Lex with Ambush and the Hero Axe can kill large groups of enemies. In Gen 2 the Hero weapon may need some crit on it because killing stuff in two hits is hard w/o a holy weapon, but it's still pretty great and you can have Lex pass it to mounted units like Delmud and it's awesome.

Ambush isn't that good on its own, its worth is truly defined by what it combines with. Luckily, Lex is such a good father that most anyone who gets it will be a good unit. Tiltyu's kids use Ambush/Wrath for ridiculousness, the Swordtwins become immortal with it, and even some other lesser-known pairings will be good with it (let's be real, Ardan is always forever alone and Lex isn't being paired with anyone not named Ayra or Tiltyu). Johan does quite well with Ambush when he has the Hero Axe and Pursuit Ring (possible depending on who fathered Arthur and whether or not Leaf is promoted), and Aless has a ridiculous amount of skills.

By that logic Ambush will move up. I don't think it's better than Astra (it's attached to the three best foot units in the game, activates often because of their Odo-enhanced Skill growths, and can combine with their innate Continue/Hero Sword for even more craziness) but it does deserve to move much higher.

RE: Dance: I'm not inclined to move it an entire tier above Elite, nor is it worth moving Pursuit down from its broken tier. Bargain's leaving its tier anyway, so if I leave that tier alone with just Dance and Elite, that will be satisfactory.

RE: Bargain: Bargain will be going down for obvious reasons, but as for where I'm not sure. Somewhere in Middle Tier perhaps, because it's still useful in the right hands, and Holy Weapon users want that Bargain Ring if Dew isn't their father (read: everyone except possibly Faval).

RE: Continue/Critical: I'm willing to move Critical down right below/above Continue because I really don't know why I have a Tier gap between them.

[Yojinbo]

Gen 1

* Top: Pursuit > Dance

* High: Prayer ~ Return ~ Elite ~ Steal

Gen 2

* Top: Pursuit ~ Dance > Charisma

* High: Continue ~ Critical ~ Elite

Return should be ranked very high in gen 1 because it's almost essential for Ch.2, Ch.3 and Ch.4. Charisma is meh in gen 1 because it's exclusive to Lachesis and she's only on the front line in the last two chapters. It's godlike in gen 2 though. Not sure where to rank Prayer and Steal in gen 2. I think in gen 2 the destructive power of Continue and Critical is more useful, especially since one or the other can easily be coupled with Pursuit and/or a Hero weapon.

I don't think it's better than Astra (it's attached to the three best foot units in the game [...])

I didn't know Levin, Sety and Laylea had Astra :o

Edited March 8, 2015 by Yojinbo

[Moishe Oofnik]

Gen 1

* Top: Pursuit > Dance

* High: Prayer ~ Return ~ Elite ~ Steal

Gen 2

* Top: Pursuit ~ Dance > Charisma

* High: Continue ~ Critical ~ Elite

Return should be ranked very high in gen 1 because it's almost essential for Ch.2, Ch.3 and Ch.4. Charisma is meh in gen 1 because it's exclusive to Lachesis and she's only on the front line in the last two chapters. It's godlike in gen 2 though. Not sure where to rank Prayer and Steal in gen 2. I think in gen 2 the destructive power of Continue and Critical is more useful, especially since one or the other can easily be coupled with Pursuit and/or a Hero weapon.

I didn't know Levin, Sety and Laylea had Astra :o

Laylea isnt a combat unit it/he/she was refering to gen 2 and shanan is a better foot character then leylea anyway(arguebly better then levin!sety) and the sword kids are the best offensive physicly foot units

Gen 1:

Top:Pursuit>Dance agreed

High:Return>Elite=Prayer>Steal(your steal character has no other thing to do but pot shotting nards and might be favals father)

Gen 2:

Agreed

I suggest a change to the tier list (Like llia sacae seperate tier lists not merge)

seperate gen 1 and seperate gen 2 tier lists

[Caliban of Sycorax]

So something like this would be ideal:

[spoiler=Generation 1 List]

Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Return

High Middle Tier

Prayer

Steal

Charisma

Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Charge

Astra

Bargain

Low Middle Tier

Wrath

Luna

Ambush

Low Tier

Sol

Nihil

Bottom Tier

Great Shield

Life

[spoiler=Generation 2 List]

Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Charisma

High Middle Tier

Prayer

Steal

Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Astra

Charge

Steal

Bargain

Low Middle Tier

Wrath

Ambush

Return

Luna

Low Tier

Nihil

Sol

Life

Bottom Tier

Great Shield

[General Horace]

in what way is prayer better than continue or critical (at least in gen 2)

continue/critical gives you awesome offence, not only is prayer really rare, it requires the enemies to have the right amount of attack and most units don't even need it. It's very good on Fin in gen 1 since he mostly fights axes and lances, but in gen 2 Fin is likely not threatened until chapter 10 or something anyway, and I can't really think of a situation where having the prayer sword or the prayer skill is actually beneficial. Critical at the very least is good against every single boss.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

If anything I was basing it off of the original list, I agree wholeheartedly. I was considering who would have Prayer besides Fin (his kids and Sylvia's kids, plus the Prayer Sword user in a Children run), but it's very true that Prayer isn't as useful in Gen 2. When crafting the original list I looked at Prayer as an amazing skill, which it is, but I focused on the overall and didn't take both generations separately at that time.

If anything, it would drop to around below Astra with Continue and Critical taking its place.

Also with regards to the Second Generation, how good is Steal? It's either on Patty, who is heavily dependent on a good father/inheritance and won't be doing any fighting until she can take potshots in Melgen, or Daisy, who is a useless scrub. Sure it means more money for Holy Weapon repairs, but the Generation 2 thieves really won't be getting as much money as Dew did in Generation 1. After she recruits Faval, Patty is relegated to bench duty, and most players skip Assholio entirely because he costs turns.

[General Horace]

I was going to say steal is pretty good if you're doing subs runs in gen 2, but then i realized I get all my money from villages with Daisy because she's so bad at everything, so she only uses the give command. Is that technically part of the steal skill?

There's no doubt prayer is a good skill though, I just think offensive skills like charge, critical and continue (and pursuit) are just more valuable than defensive skills like ambush and prayer. They have their own niche's in the arena though for sure, which should probably be taken into consideration. Continue is totally worthless on Leen and Sylvia (like why does she even have it?) and prayer is amazing. If you look at something stupid like Fin!Sety or something, Continue is infinately more valuable, it really depends on the unit.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I was going to say steal is pretty good if you're doing subs runs in gen 2, but then i realized I get all my money from villages with Daisy because she's so bad at everything, so she only uses the give command. Is that technically part of the steal skill?

There's no doubt prayer is a good skill though, I just think offensive skills like charge, critical and continue (and pursuit) are just more valuable than defensive skills like ambush and prayer. They have their own niche's in the arena though for sure, which should probably be taken into consideration. Continue is totally worthless on Leen and Sylvia (like why does she even have it?) and prayer is amazing. If you look at something stupid like Fin!Sety or something, Continue is infinately more valuable, it really depends on the unit.

I want to consider Give a part of Steal, but since anyone can get the Villages and Give is linked to Lovers as well (who have a better chance of getting cash quickly due to the Arena and more villages). It honestly makes Steal pretty useless in Gen 2 unless we have GodPatty, which we don't.

I feel like Charge's overall usefulness depends on if Noish/Jamka/Midir have kids worthy of using Charge. No doubt it's brilliant on, say, the Swordtwins or Fury's kids, but both of them have fathers they want way more than those three (Lex/Holyn for Ayra and Levin/Claude for Fury). Odds are, only Midir is getting paired, and he's getting paired with Aideen. Lester's not that good, and NonMagicFather!Lana won't ever see combat (I personally prefer Azel/Aideen because Pursuit and crazy Lana shenanigans). Unfortunately, every kid wants a better father than the Charge fathers, making it a little less useful for the Second Generation. I don't deny Charge is a great skill to have, and when it's on the right unit it's wonderful, but in terms of optimal inheritance it's rarely being seen, whereas Continue and Critical are a lot more commonplace.

[Zasplach]

I feel like Charge's overall usefulness depends on if Noish/Jamka/Midir have kids worthy of using Charge. No doubt it's brilliant on, say, the Swordtwins or Fury's kids, but both of them have fathers they want way more than those three (Lex/Holyn for Ayra and Levin/Claude for Fury). Odds are, only Midir is getting paired, and he's getting paired with Aideen. Lester's not that good, and NonMagicFather!Lana won't ever see combat (I personally prefer Azel/Aideen because Pursuit and crazy Lana shenanigans). Unfortunately, every kid wants a better father than the Charge fathers, making it a little less useful for the Second Generation. I don't deny Charge is a great skill to have, and when it's on the right unit it's wonderful, but in terms of optimal inheritance it's rarely being seen, whereas Continue and Critical are a lot more commonplace.

Beowulf has charge too, passing it to a larger number of children.

And I agree that prayer is probably a middle tier skill for both gens. And I like the two varied tier systems.

For the first generation, charisma probably belongs down down in the middle tier, Lachesis has it, but it's really only doing good after she promotes, sometime in chapter 3/ beginning of chapter 4.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Beowulf has charge too, passing it to a larger number of children.

And I agree that prayer is probably a middle tier skill for both gens. And I like the two varied tier systems.

For the first generation, charisma probably belongs down down in the middle tier, Lachesis has it, but it's really only doing good after she promotes, sometime in chapter 3/ beginning of chapter 4.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

beowulfs options start and end with lach doe (he is a decent faval father but a meh patty father cuz charge)

charm is either top mid or lowest upper mid ill elaborate later

[Yojinbo]

I feel like Charge's overall usefulness depends on if Noish/Jamka/Midir have kids worthy of using Charge.

In that case you should rank Charge very high in gen 2.

A viable Lester will always have Charge, either through Midir or through Jamka. Lana will always be OK and Charge doesn't hurt her if you ever use her in combat because of 1-2 range.

Noish/Beowolf can pass down Charge to Delmud & Nanna, Sety & Fee or Lakche & Skasaha - all of whom can make great use of it. I'd probably rank it right below Continue and Critical.

Edit: Due to availability reasons Charge may actually be a better skill in gen 1 than Continue and Critical though.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Yojinbo

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I forgot Beowulf, like an idiot. Yay. TTPK_Tal is right, though--Beowulf usually isn't fathering anyone besides Delmud and Nanna. He's a decent father for Faval and Patty, but he's tertiary to Holyn and Dew (I did FinxBriggid my last run and had the most successful Patty ever, even though she died to Julius in Miletos). That's the problem with the Charge fathers, with MidirxAideen and BeoxLachesis being the only exceptions, they're always secondary/tertiary choices for pairings. nonetheless it's an amazing skill when used right. At least some kids are getting it, and usually good kids get Charge. I once did Jamka!Swordtwins and they were amazing to work with (besides no inheritance for Skash).

I'm also willing to move Prayer down some, but Middle for Gen 1 seems a bit too low. Fin relies on Prayertanking in Chapters 1 and 2, and even Prayer Sword!Lachesis pulls some crazy stunts with it. Prayer Sword is also a good choice for Ethlin who already has very high dodge.

[spoiler=Gen 1]Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Return

High Middle Tier

Prayer

Steal

Charge

Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Charisma

Astra

Bargain

Low Middle Tier

Wrath

Luna

Ambush

Low Tier

Sol

Nihil

Life

Bottom Tier

Great Shield

[spoiler=Gen 2]Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Charisma

High Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Charge

Middle Tier

Astra

Prayer

Bargain

Wrath

Low Middle Tier

Steal

Ambush

Return

Luna

Low Tier

Nihil

Life

Bottom Tier

Great Shield

Sol

So I moved Charge much higher for both lists. I'm not 100% sure about it's Generation 1 placing, but i can't justify a Tier Gap between Continue and Critical, nor do I feel Charge can separate the two individually.

Charisma and Prayer were moved down in their respective Generations, as discussed.

Sol was moved much lower because it's a low-rent version of Life, and since Dew is nowhere near an optimal father, it's possible it is nonexistent in the Second Generation. At least Hannibal has Great Shield to begin with.

I also realized Steal was on the list twice for Gen 2. I moved it even lower because we're really not using it as much in an optimal play.

[General Horace]

Do people really think Holyn!Briggid is good? The only good B rank sword is the hero sword, which is infinately better on units other than Patty, and it gives nothing but lots of HP to Faval (which he has anyway). I actually think people like Midir and Beowulf are stronger pairings, with a magic sword and a charge proc, Patty's likely to kill something, which isn't happening really with any other pairing. Her offence is honestly passable enough to kill stuff regardless of pairing (other than like, Claude or something) on promotion, and she has A swords without Holyn too.

That being said, I've never done it, i've just seen it as a funny pairing like Holyn!Sylvia, sure Luna Leen is cool, but in practice it's totally useless.

Edited March 9, 2015 by General Horace

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I did HolynxSylvia once, it was interesting. A strange yet workable pairing is AzelxSylvia. Not ideal because you lose out on kids like Azel!Arthur, Azel!Lana, and Azel!Delmud, but it's still workable. But since I can't be assed to recruit Corple 9 times out of 10, I don't know how good he is with Azel.

[General Horace]

I think Corple's dad is pretty irrelevant unless he has a dad that gives him staves or is Lex.

Even with Holsety, he's not particularly good anyway.

Edited March 9, 2015 by General Horace

[Moishe Oofnik]

Do people really think Holyn!Briggid is good? The only good B rank sword is the hero sword, which is infinately better on units other than Patty, and it gives nothing but lots of HP to Faval (which he has anyway). I actually think people like Midir and Beowulf are stronger pairings, with a magic sword and a charge proc, Patty's likely to kill something, which isn't happening really with any other pairing. Her offence is honestly passable enough to kill stuff regardless of pairing (other than like, Claude or something) on promotion, and she has A swords without Holyn too.

That being said, I've never done it, i've just seen it as a funny pairing like Holyn!Sylvia, sure Luna Leen is cool, but in practice it's totally useless.

Im preety sure midir lack of inhertience dooms starting patty id prefer jamke who does the same things but better overall growths if you really want patty being an offensive unit (35% skill doesnt matter much) its not like luna is a bad offensive skill it negates enemy defence so if patty procs it she is getting much much more damage output

Beowulf!Patty is literly holyn patty with 35% less skill less 25% HP and 5% more str and charge instead of luna charge while strengthening her offence lowers her durabillity (she is prone to be speed screwed with that 35% speed growth being the most common one) which is already more barebones

Holyn gives patty durabillity her durabillity is generly (speaking out of personal experience) rather lacking to use charge effectivly but beowulf is actually another thing (I am speaking from experience of Jamke!Patty) Id want to see how beowulfs inheritence very simmilar stats to holyn and charge instead of luna worksout

Holyn gives faval amazing durabillity (allmost as good as lex overall lower defence for higher HP and better growthspread) but it isnt as good as dew which pushes his offence to the max

Also Id say this to your B swords that Id rather use a Steel sword rather then an Iron sword if I want patty to have some offence (I think the sleep sword is a waste on her)

Dew!Faval(Who doesnt want the greatest FE4 stat spread ever) is best Faval but Dew!Patty is Frail really frail

if this was for example FE4 inflation Id put beowulf (and or alec) as the best father

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[General Horace]

Im preety sure midir lack of inhertience dooms starting patty id prefer jamke who does the same things but better overall growths if you really want patty being an offensive unit (35% skill doesnt matter much) its not like luna is a bad offensive skill it negates enemy defence so if patty procs it she is getting much much more damage output

Beowulf!Patty is literly holyn patty with 35% less skill less 25% HP and 5% more str and charge instead of luna charge while strengthening her offence lowers her durabillity (she is prone to be speed screwed with that 35% speed growth being the most common one) which is already more barebones

Holyn gives patty durabillity her durabillity is generly (speaking out of personal experience) rather lacking to use charge effectivly but beowulf is actually another thing (I am speaking from experience of Jamke!Patty) Id want to see how beowulfs inheritence very simmilar stats to holyn and charge instead of luna worksout

Holyn gives faval amazing durabillity (allmost as good as lex overall lower defence for higher HP and better growthspread) but it isnt as good as dew which pushes his offence to the max

Also Id say this to your B swords that good Id rather use a Steel sword rather then an Iron sword if I want patty to have some offence (I think the sleep sword is a waste on her)

It's easy to nab the thunder sword on Midir, Jacaban isn't a very hard boss to kill.

Patty's speed is generally bad, I agree with you there. The whole point of Charge on Patty though is to attack from range with a magic sword - even with horrible magic it still does very reasonable chip damage. Holyn!Patty also doesn't have pursuit, so unless you invest a hero sword on her, her offence even with Luna is far inferior to Pursuit + Charge.

Why does Faval need durability? He's a sniper! This being said, he's always a good enough unit because of Ichival. Dew doesn't push Faval's offence to the max, he gives him no skills that complement his offence. At the end of the day though, Faval's dad really doesn't matter, he's gonna be killing stuff.

Why would you give Patty a steel sword when she could use any of the magic swords? They're better in almost every way. Or even the prayer sword.

Edited March 9, 2015 by General Horace

[Yojinbo]

Afaik Holyn!Patty is important for ranked runs because of Luna + Hero Sword hax in the arena. I don't think it really matters in an efficiency playthrough though because Patty is kind of a lost cause. Thief utility just isn't important enough in gen 2 to make up for her poor combat like Dew does it in gen 1. Midir!Patty or Jamka!Patty with a Magic Sword and a Magic Ring could work outside of the arena though thanks to Charge + Continue/Pursuit. Faval would still be fine and one of Midir and Jamka should always be free to be paired up with Briggid. In an unranked run it's probably not worse than BriggidxHolyn

That's the problem with the Charge fathers, with MidirxAideen and BeoxLachesis being the only exceptions, they're always secondary/tertiary choices for pairings.

Noish is universally agreed to be the best father of Aira's children.

Beo is universally agreed to be the best father of Lachesis' children.

Midir and Jamka are probably the best fathers of Aideen's children.

If you do the most standardized pairings you get 6 units with Charge in generation 2 and it's kind of a big deal for all of these units at one point except Lana.

[General Horace]

it's much easier for patty to just clear the arena with the sleep sword than actually try killing things with luna and the hero sword.

Exp is really easy in gen 2 anyway for crappy units since there are so many npc's that give exp.

Edited March 9, 2015 by General Horace

[Moishe Oofnik]

Afaik Holyn!Patty is important for ranked runs because of Luna + Hero Sword hax in the arena. I don't think it really matters in an efficiency playthrough though because Patty is kind of a lost cause. Thief utility just isn't important enough in gen 2 to make up for her poor combat like Dew does it in gen 1. Midir!Patty or Jamka!Patty with a Magic Sword and a Magic Ring could work outside of the arena though thanks to Charge + Continue/Pursuit. Faval would still be fine and one of Midir and Jamka should always be free to be paired up with Briggid. In an unranked run it's probably not worse than BriggidxHolyn

Noish/Lex is universally agreed to be the best father of Aira's children. It comes to the question Fast Promo and Great defence or Slightly better offence (at the cost of worse defence)

Beo is universally agreed to be the best father of Lachesis' children.

Midir and Jamka are probably the best fathers of Aideen's children.(Those are best overall fathers Azel!Lana is best Lana)

If you do the most standardized pairings you get 6 or 4 depends if you got lex units with Charge in generation 2 and it's kind of a big deal for all of these units at one point except Lana.

Edited March 9, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Yojinbo]

If you don't pair up Noish with Aira you can still go NoishxFury and pass down Charge onto Fee and Sety who make great use of it too. Or do NoishxBriggid to give Patty and Faval access to Charge/Critical [+Magic Swords for Patty]. You can also do stuff like Noish!Delmud with Hero Sword or something. Seriously, Noish is a great father because he passes down two skills that are good on their own and even better in conjunction with each other. Plus he passes down Swords as well so even if you don't do NoishxAira you should still be able to pass everything that's good about Noish down to gen 2.

Either way Charge should probably be ranked high tier in gen 2 [just below Critical and Continue] and about high mid tier in gen 1 [possible above Critical and Continue? I dunno yet].

Edit: Then again AiraxLex is pretty overrated tbh. Elite is overkill on the kids because they can easily afford the elite ring early enough after making short work of the arena and Skasaha not inheriting any swords is pretty bad in a game where a lot of units can pass down swords. Lex should be paired up with Tiltyu.

it's much easier for patty to just clear the arena with the sleep sword than actually try killing things with luna and the hero sword.

Exp is really easy in gen 2 anyway for crappy units since there are so many npc's that give exp.

I dunno, I never played ranked precisely because I can't be arsed to do stuff like train Dew into promotion range or actually use Patty for anything. Faval will be good with just about any father who gives him decent str or spd so I never cared too much about whether I pair up Briggid with Holyn or Dew or somebody else.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Yojinbo

[General Horace]

I've found FE4 ranked runs to be pretty easy, the last time I played FE4 I AAAA ranked without even intending to, with totally stupid pairings like Azel Ayra and Ardan Tiltyu (which I guess really isn't that bad).

Azel!Aideen is atrocious. Sure it gives Lester Pursuit, but he gets no inheritance or good stats other than speed, and Lana could care less about stats in general.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

@Yojinbo I'm not sure about ranking charge above continue/critical in generation 1. The biggest problem is that it only activates if the user's health is above 25, which can be a big problem for Midir and Noish, especially in situations like Anphony Castle where your mounts are charging ahead with only Ethlin to heal. It kind of limits the utility of charge in the early to mid game, and by late game all your best options aren't relying on charge anyways.

Yeah, Aideen x Azel is terrible. The only thing it's good for is a Gen 1 rescue staff, which isn't the best idea outside of 0% growths. If you want to screw Lester over, Aideen x Claude is the better way to do it.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer