[NEW] FE4 Skill Tier List

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

I used the Shanan example to show that you can play at a very fast pace and use infantry. I never compared the two statistically or in terms of combat. And I will reiterate a point I made earlier: if we are arguing from the perspective of ltc, azel is instantly the best father (even better than levin) because every other pairing costs turns to set up. If you want this to be about ltc then there is no debate; the children won't even exist without azel. But in anything less than pure ltc, lex is a better father for the kids than

Edit: Arthur will also lag behind in ltc, he won't get a place in the rescue dance formation

Edited March 9, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Yojinbo]

I don't see how this has anything to do with tiering skills anymore.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

It doesn't.

[Yojinbo]

Yeah, I think this whole thing started out as a discussion about how good Charge is in generation 2. We all agreed that it's pretty damn good because of offensive capabilities and great availability. So high tier in gen 2 perhaps?

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Yeah, maybe I'd put it right below Elite?

[General Horace]

I actually agree with what Mekkah said on the last page. Like, Elite is an amazing skill, but it's pretty terrible on someone like Delmud who needs other skills more desparately, and generally doesn't have issues with getting exp, but it's very good on Arthur because it gives him a horse faster.

EDIT: Ok it's now two pages ago screw you SF.

Edited March 10, 2015 by General Horace

[Zasplach]

It is arguing in a vacuum, but in all honesty so is arguing which 2nd generation child character is better because you only have one Levin and you only have one Lex even if they might make the best father for arguably what like 5 of the mothers. Besides, it's been an interesting discussion of Fe4.

I think we are sort of overstating how much better of a skill charge is than at least continue in generation 1 (I might leave critical out of the discussion just due to how few characters generally have critical) because lots of characters end up with continue in gen 1. In chapter 5 the characters who will have continue are Fury, Levin, Beowulf, Sylvia, Arya, and possibly Talito (who I like to promote quickly), that's a lot of continue on a lot of pretty high tier units. Continue enhances the ORKO ability of Levin, Arya, Beowulf, and Fury. I think it is probably better than charge just due to it's component as a class skill.

And to answer Horace's question about Briggid-Holyn, I used to agree with the general idea that it was best for both, good skill growth for Faval, and b-swords and Luna for Patty, but after a few more pairings I never find Faval to be skill screwed and Patty gets lots of use from pursuit. She can get inheritance from Jacobo and that thunder sword.

[Refa]

I feel like a skills tier list would be better if they were ranked based on how good they'd be on units (e.g. Wrath Sigurd would be fantastic) rather than how good they are on the units they're already on, otherwise it might as well just be a normal tier list.

I actually agree with what Mekkah said on the last page. Like, Elite is an amazing skill, but it's pretty terrible on someone like Delmud who needs other skills more desparately, and generally doesn't have issues with getting exp, but it's very good on Arthur because it gives him a horse faster.

EDIT: Ok it's now two pages ago screw you SF.

There's no unit Elite is completely useless for (OK dancers, but it still helps them in ranked playthroughs) though. I mean yeah, it's definitely way less useful for Delmud, but Elite Ring passing (basically making units give up around 20k each chapter just so they can get Elite for the arena only) is a thing for a reason.

[General Horace]

I feel like a skills tier list would be better if they were ranked based on how good they'd be on units (e.g. Wrath Sigurd would be fantastic) rather than how good they are on the units they're already on, otherwise it might as well just be a normal tier list.

There's no unit Elite is completely useless for (OK dancers, but it still helps them in ranked playthroughs) though. I mean yeah, it's definitely way less useful for Delmud, but Elite Ring passing (basically making units give up around 20k each chapter just so they can get Elite for the arena only) is a thing for a reason.

at the same time there's a reason why wrath or something else like continue isn't on Sigurd, or Lachesis doesn't have Elite. It's hard to rank skills in a scenerio where they don't actually come into play.

But I agree. Wrath is only really rated poorly because of the units its on. In principle it's really staggeringly broken. Can you imagine how much of a joke bosses would be if Sigurd (or even like Cuan) had Wrath?

And by the same principle, a skill like Life is good on every unit. Elite really does very little for Delmud, he can hit level 30 easily without touching the elite ring. He already has A Swords unpromoted and I'd argue that if he has Pursuit/Charge or something unpromoted is just as good as having him promoted with just Ambush and Elite (and I guess continue). His promotion gains are pretty lame too. +6 speed is nice, but he already doubles everything anyway. +9 skill is pretty hilarious though.

Edited March 10, 2015 by General Horace

[Refa]

And by the same principle, a skill like Life is good on every unit. Elite really does very little for Delmud, he can hit level 30 easily without touching the elite ring. He already has A Swords unpromoted and I'd argue that if he has Pursuit/Charge or something unpromoted is just as good as having him promoted with just Ambush and Elite (and I guess continue). His promotion gains are pretty lame too. +6 speed is nice, but he already doubles everything anyway. +9 skill is pretty hilarious though.

Oh right, I forgot his promotion bonuses were lame and he doesn't get a weapon rank bonus. Continue is pretty helpful if he doesn't have a Hero Sword, though. Like I agree that it's way less useful for him, but like more stats faster is never bad and what else are you going to give Delmud?

EDIT Also in your favor, Elite is pretty much useless for staff using classes.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Refa

[Moishe Oofnik]

Oh right, I forgot his promotion bonuses were lame and he doesn't get a weapon rank bonus. Continue is pretty helpful if he doesn't have a Hero Sword, though. Like I agree that it's way less useful for him, but like more stats faster is never bad and what else are you going to give Delmud?

EDIT Also in your favor, Elite is pretty much useless for staff using classes.apart from corpul

Just had the need to say that

[Yojinbo]

I've actually started to wonder whether Elite should really be ranked that high. From a gameplay perspective it does nothing more than speeding up the process of leveling units which is only a really big deal if a unit gains a horse upon promotion. Since this tier list doesn't care about ranks the exp increase itself isn't a big factor.

Elite gives Azel, Lachesis, Celice, Arthur and Leaf faster access to a horse. Azel's horse is the only thing that gives him a niche outside of Levin's shadow and of course it's also a big deal for Lachesis. Still, that's only two units and even without it Lachesis could probably staffbot her way to promotion without it. It's convenient to have but without it you could play gen 1 probably just as efficiently in the end.

Gen 2 is a different matter. Elite is absolutely integral to promoting Celice and Leaf asap and their importance doesn't need any further discussion. You also want Arthur promoted asap to either get Horse + Holsety or Horse + Ambush + Wrath. To all intents and purposes Elite may actually be a top tier skill in gen 2.

I feel like a skills tier list would be better if they were ranked based on how good they'd be on units (e.g. Wrath Sigurd would be fantastic) rather than how good they are on the units they're already on, otherwise it might as well just be a normal tier list.

I couldn't disagree more. Why should we take a hypothesis into consideration that can't happen under any circumstance? We don't rank Wrath higher because of what Sigurd could do with it for the same reason we don't rank Roy higher on a FE6 Tier list because of what he could do with Karel's growth rates. Wrath is exclusive to Tiltyu, her children and Linda and thus its performance with these characters will be evaluated.

[Moishe Oofnik]

I've actually started to wonder whether Elite should really be ranked that high. From a gameplay perspective it does nothing more than speeding up the process of leveling units which is only a really big deal if a unit gains a horse upon promotion. Since this tier list doesn't care about ranks the exp increase itself isn't a big factor.

Elite gives Azel, Lachesis, Celice, Arthur and Leaf faster access to a horse. Azel's horse is the only thing that gives him a niche outside of Levin's shadow and of course it's also a big deal for Lachesis. Still, that's only two units and even without it Lachesis could probably staffbot her way to promotion without it. It's convenient to have but without it you could play gen 1 probably just as efficiently in the end.

Gen 2 is a different matter. Elite is absolutely integral to promoting Celice and Leaf asap and their importance doesn't need any further discussion. You also want Arthur promoted asap to either get Horse + Holsety or Horse + Ambush + Wrath. To all intents and purposes Elite may actually be a top tier skill in gen 2.

I couldn't disagree more. Why should we take a hypothesis into consideration that can't happen under any circumstance? We don't rank Wrath higher because of what Sigurd could do with it for the same reason we don't rank Roy higher on a FE6 Tier list because of what he could do with Karel's growth rates. Wrath is exclusive to Tiltyu, her children and Linda and thus its performance with these characters will be evaluated.

I think elite should stay at high because its purely great even non horse kids Elite helps exp rank and leveling to all units you really have no cons when using it no matter what

[Refa]

I couldn't disagree more. Why should we take a hypothesis into consideration that can't happen under any circumstance? We don't rank Wrath higher because of what Sigurd could do with it for the same reason we don't rank Roy higher on a FE6 Tier list because of what he could do with Karel's growth rates. Wrath is exclusive to Tiltyu, her children and Linda and thus its performance with these characters will be evaluated.

Then why not just make a normal tier list.

[Yojinbo]

even non horse kids Elite helps exp rank

This tier list doesn't take ranks into consideration.

Then why not just make a normal tier list.

I dunno, I'd have no objections to that *shrug*

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

New thread time?

[Caliban of Sycorax]

This tier list does take into account who possesses/can possess these skills, and in Gen 2 we assume optimal pairings. We're more likely to see Lex!Swordtwins and Lex!Tronkids versus, say, Azel!Swordtwins or Alec!Tronkids.

Also, I did take the skills themselves into account. Wrath sucks because of who it's on, but it's still a very overkill skill, hence why it's not completely in the bottom. Wrath can also pair up with skills like Continue and Ambush to really do some damage.

It is hard to truly rank a majority of the skills (besides the top like Pursuit and Dance and the bottom like Sol and Great Shield) because a lot of their usefulness depends on who's got the skill (in Gen 2 at least, Gen 1 is a little more workable).

[MacLovin]

i'm guessing part of the reason nihil's so low is because Alec's the only one who can pass it down.

and he's like the worst overall dad for any kid.

well there's ayra too, but idk how useful it is in gen 2 anyways.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

It's nice for Fee so she can not get killed by arrows, but Alec!Fee is such a bad pairing, like how are Levin, Claude, Noish, and even Lex occupied?

Nihil's useless because not enough enemies have skills that your units should be worrying about. The exceptions are crits from slayer weapons, but those are so few and far between that it's very, very easy to work around them. Your one issue is with Fee and arrows, but if you're positioning a flyer to where they are being attacked by bows (and potentially murdered) you suck at Fire Emblem.