Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Smith would've shut down half the field so we have more people able to stop the run. We had trouble with run D once Smith went out; Ajayi is having a hell of a season and he was held to very few rushing yards, Zeke had a much better OL than any other team (Steelers OL isn't comparable) was held below 100, but since Jimmy went out Ryan Matthews (lol), Blount, and Bell have been able to run quite well on us. This wouldn't be much of a game with Smith in there (even with Green and others in because your TE and slot receiver were catching a bunch), and that's a problem with depth. Smith allows for very fancy blitzes involving Weddle and we can throw an extra dude or two at the QB or RB because Smith can defend the pass so well. I don't think you quite understand what Jimmy Smith means. A few mediocre at best DL doesn't compare to Smith shutting down half the field. Also our RT was out of the game halfway in and replaced with the worst OT in football. A few mediocre DL won't make as big a difference when their replacement can replicate 90% of what they can do. Shareece Wright is hardly even worth 10% of what Smith offers. Ana missing depth is not equal to missing a legitimately elite starter. Smith can shut down Brown, if you don't remember... Edited December 29, 2016 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Smith would've shut down half the field so we have more people able to stop the run. We had trouble with run D once Smith went out; Ajayi is having a hell of a season and he was held to very few rushing yards, Zeke had a much better OL than any other team (Steelers OL isn't comparable) was held below 100, but since Jimmy went out Ryan Matthews (lol), Blount, and Bell have been able to run quite well on us. This wouldn't be much of a game with Smith in there (even with Green and others in because your TE and slot receiver were catching a bunch), and that's a problem with depth. Smith allows for very fancy blitzes involving Weddle and we can throw an extra dude or two at the QB or RB because Smith can defend the pass so well. I don't think you quite understand what Jimmy Smith means. A few mediocre at best DL doesn't compare to Smith shutting down half the field. Also our RT was out of the game halfway in and replaced with the worst OT in football. A few mediocre DL won't make as big a difference when their replacement can replicate 90% of what they can do. Shareece Wright is hardly even worth 10% of what Smith offers. Ana missing depth is not equal to missing a legitimately elite starter. Smith can shut down Brown, if you don't remember... 1. Cam Heyward is above average, dude, not mediocre. He's not top 5 in LBs or anything, but he makes our defensive line much better. He's the only one that's gotten multiple sacks in one game, batted passes, AND FG blocks the past two seasons. Hell, he had a game this year where he got three sacks, I believe. Tuitt isn't quite as good at all that, but he's great at making the tackle and getting sacks. I bet you a lot of those missed tackles that happened for the Steelers wouldn't have happened had he and Heyward been there. Tuitt in particular is massive and strong. 2. I'm not denying that Jimmy Smith can shut AB down, he can. It's just that we have so much depth at WR and to a lesser extent, TE, that even if AB's taken out of the equation, other guys will get open. Jimmy Smith by himself won't stop Ladarius Green, Jesse James, Hey-Bey, AND Coates if they're all on the field. And that's not even factoring in Bell who works great as a wideout AS WELL as an RB. We can't run Bell very well? He'll just go to WR with De-Lo in the backfield to fake runs and ALSO catch some passes (De-Lo's not bad as a receiver either). 3. Our o-line doesn't compare to the Cowboys? What game did you watch? And tell me, while our defense got almost four sacks on Christmas, how many did YOUR defense-that's-supposed-to-be-top-3 get? Oh yeah, ZERO! In fact, our o-line has only allowed three sacks in the last half dozen or so games. They've barely even allowed people to touch Ben! And there's a reason Bell was able to totally trash the Bills. Another thing, Alejandro Villanueva, who was previously a BACKUP, was all over Suggy-Suggs who's supposed to be your best defensive lineman. Listen, Jimmy Smith is excellent. He's the only CB I've seen consistently hold AB to low numbers. But you forget how many weapons Ben has to throw to when we're completely healthy. Also, there's a better chance Ben doesn't throw those INTs if he had all his weapons due to chemistry issues (he has better chemistry with Sammie Coates than Eli Rogers or Cobi Hamilton, for example, the latter of which was the intended target of one of those INTs), and a lot of your points came off those INTs. All in all, the game still could've gone either way if our teams were healthier. You have a point about Jimmy Smith, but I also still have a point about our o-line, receiving depth, and beat up defensive line. Edited December 29, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) I don't think you understand the concept of a shutdown corner. If Smith is in his zone and can shut down a good 1/3 or 1/2 of the field or press a top receiver consistently it opens up the pass rush, it opens up corner blitzes and safety blitzes and it opens up run defense. You're talking about a pass rush that can't send Weddle, Webb or a corner to blitz so it keeps all of our blitzes predictable. We can't "sell out" against a run nearly as much because you don't have a safety blanket against the pass as you do with Jimmy Smith in the game. A pass rusher and DL - next man up as you are stating - is not as hard to replicate, especially since Cam Heyward isn't really an elite player. Above average okay but he's not elite. A top corner is not as easy to replicate, especially since he's an incredible tackler and run stopper. Again, watch film and highlights of our defense post-Pats and pre-Pats or even in the Cowboys game (I forgot we didn't have Smith there so Zeke kept dinking - that was about as bad a defensive effort as the second half of the Steelers game). It's completely night and day. When Ryan Matthews is getting 6 YOC against your defense and Blount and so forth are consistently breaking some runs despite a stout run defense in every other game. Steelers and Dolphins' offenses were anemic in those games despite their running game, I'm pretty sure we had an injured Smith in the last q of the Raiders game, and a ton of offenses could not run the ball worth shit against us all year. That's when you can see by the stat sheet that our D drops significantly in quality without Jimmy Smith. Smith is like Richard Sherman except instead of baiting ints he has better lateral speed so he never gets burned like Sherman does on occasion. It's like having a third safety but one that can defend passes and cover 1v1 significantly better. Like you seriously underestimate the impact of an elite corner vs a few mediocre and a single above average starter, especially since neither mattered anyway. If Smith is shutting down 1/3-1/2 of the field and you have one receiver over the other, you're playing slightly better players against a completely different defense. Smith isn't even our best player on D (that's Weddle, Williams, and probably Mosley and Orr) but his skill set - which is good instinct in zones, and fantastic coverage and allowing only one person to worry about AB as opposed to in-game where he needed more people covering him - as well as letting our safeties run stop more often in case of a run (so he can defend the pass much better) completely changes our defense. Our blitzes didn't get home because our coverage was shaken up and it was especially bad typically when our safeties blitzed and the Steelers are liable to pass anytime so we couldn't sell out against the run. If you don't see how needing around 2-3 players to do the job of one player on any given play can affect a defense you're crazy. Even if Roethlisberger had more weapons - and fyi there's 5 receivers on any given play and at least 4 kept getting consistent receptions so let's not pretend he was missing much - then what difference would it make? Offensive line chemistry and secondary chemistry are much more important and difficult than QB-WR chemistry. If a player isn't there to do the job that makes yours significantly easier and lets you do just about anything else then that's a huge blow. Ben kept throwing picks to our linebackers (we got 6 points off TOs btw but don't brag about your D too much because they got 3 sacks but let up 27 points to a bottom 10 offense whose chemistry went from awful to mediocre. Should've been 30 if Koch doesn't botch the snap.) Don't talk too much shit either, because the Steelers were completely flaccid game 1 against our very healthy defense (before Webb even started playing well)... they couldn't get the game within a score until literally 60 seconds were left, where they had to recover an onside with no timeouts left. Can you stop saying shit like Suggy-Suggs and whatever because it makes you sound 12 rather than 26. Like that rant was pure unadulterated wet homer rant. Don't shift the goalposts either; the job isn't to compare Steelers D, it's to discuss Jimmy Smith's role in the Ravens defense. Imagine a Seahawks D without Earl Thomas (so like now) and that's the same impact. Most of what you're saying isn't relevant in the end. And FYI the Seahawks D has been struggling without Thomas despite how good Sherman and Chancellor are, especially since they gave up 34 points especially 3 in the last 30 seconds of the Cardinals game. In this case, despite how good Webb and Weddle have been missing Smith made things much more difficult on defense. Also the Pats have the best scoring defense so good luck against them.. Edited December 29, 2016 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Whoa dude, firstly, was the extremely long post necessary? I know mine was a bit long too, but not THAT long. I'm seriously having trouble following all this now. It's not you, I have trouble following really long posts a lot of the time. I get that a top corner isn't easy to replicate. I get that a top player in any position isn't easy to replicate. We won't ever find another Troy Polamalu or AB or Bell, I'm sure. We really missed Bell in the playoffs the last two seasons. All I'm saying is that no matter how good ONE player is, they can't do everything and while Smith does make a difference on your defense, I don't think he makes as big a difference as you make it out to be, that's all. As for Suggs, I hate him more than any other player on your team, so calling him goofy names is my way of making fun of him. Not trying to make fun of you or anything, I swear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) I know what you're saying and I explained in detail why I disagree. The stats are heavily in my favor too. There's two seasons worth of stats - and actually the half of the season where Smith recovered from his lisfranc last year could count as another year - that are favorable to my position. Clearly my effort to explain this took a long time (keep in mind that I've been TAing or lecturing for the past two and a half years and I've been in graduate school so i have to make detailed explanations) but what matters is not what you believe but why you believe it. Restating "I disagree" is meaningless. I'll dig up some stats too if you care, but the LOB in Seattle isn't really liking the fact that the best FS in the league right now is on IR and if Sherman was on IR over Thomas then it would be of equal issue. Secondaries in general have a huge "boom or bust" issue. You can make due to some extent with WR depth but if the QB can get the ball out in a second or two despite pressure then it's easy to see why a secondary matters. As it stood the strength of our D this year had never been the pass rush - their pressure all year has been mediocre especially without the threat of a blitz - it was in preventing rushes, picks, and good coverage downfield (which is a part of killing the rush, because it's difficult to cover downfield if you can't defend the run). This also lends credence to an elite corner shattering the structure of our defense with an injury. You can look up our pass rush stats and see that there's very little to see. It hasn't been good. There are other factors that made it a top defense. Edited December 29, 2016 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) You know, I've looked at the average defensive stats of our teams recently, and they actually weren't that much different. The Ravens were just a little bit better. And before you try to give me some excuse for it, you used this same argument about our offenses some time ago, that "our offensive stats aren't much different from yours." Which yeah, there hasn't been a big difference lately there either (probably due to injuries and Ben having to create some chemistry with new guys. Flacco's had new faces to work with too), which helps my argument that the Steelers and Ravens have been pretty even lately. So...where are you going with this now? Edited December 29, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Our offensive stats weren't much different... in 2014. In 2016 our offense has been bottom 10. In 2015 our offense was doing pretty well until they lost SSSr, Forsett, Flacco, etc, but the Steelers were very shaky with or without Roethlisberger. In 2014 the difference between our PF was two pick sixes and a return TD; both offenses scored the same number of TDs and FGs. Our defenses were pretty far apart until Smith went down. The 2014 Ravens D was also better overall despite shortcomings. The defense this year was legit Top 3 until a few weeks back. As it stands we currently edge out the Steelers h2h in the Harbaugh era (which is weird but we are 10-9) but 2009-2014 the Ravens were better as a whole. 2015 was shitty and 2016 as a team they're not far apart. But the point I'm getting at is the stats make my point that the defense is shaky without Jimmy Smith.. Edited December 29, 2016 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Our defenses were pretty far apart until Smith went down. The stats seem to say otherwise. Smith only went down a few weeks ago, and the Steelers D has been riding a hot streak since longer than that. Granted, yes, a couple of those games were against lowly Browns and Colts teams, but the consistency and improvements on certain areas like the secondary has still been there. It's honestly been more the offense that's had consistency issues. On another note, YES Bell wants to stay! I mean, I kinda knew he did, but it's nice to see confirmation. ^^ The Steelers management better give this guy his money! We can't give him up after what he's been doing on the field! Edited December 29, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 The Colts that they played were playing a backup QB, it wasn't even Luck. What stats anyway? Ravens are #5 in yards (Steelers are #9), Ravens are #3 in Turnovers (Steelers are #20), Ravens are #10 in Pass Yards (Steelers are #15), #2 in rush yards against (Steelers are #6, because people would rather pass), #4 in rush ypa against (Steelers are #15), #4 in TO% (Steelers are #19). I think all the Steelers beat the Ravens in defensively is 1st downs allowed, the only thing that's close is PA (293 vs 303, Ravens are #7 to Steelers #9). fyi like 150 of our PA came in 5 games without Smith. Our rush YPA was #1 (~3.0) until the past few weeks when we allowed less than 3.0 YPA or some crazy shit. We've averaged a solid 5-6 YPA against since Smith has been out, and 3.0 before. I should also note that the Giants were also beneficiaries of a Smithless defense, since they were shut down in the first half until Smith went out - then ODB went nuts on our D scoring 3 very long TDs. Our defense has gotten much worse and we're still ranked above the Steelers in the majority of metrics, and the gape closed a bit because Jimmy Smith's been out. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm just scroll through the ranks here, and go look up the individual splits with/without Smith yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I was looking at the comparison chart in the game center on NFL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 I don't know what comparison chart that was, but PFR tracks every stat, and you can isolate certain bits based on games. The rankings I gave you were aggregated throughout the first 16 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Alright, it's the final week of the regular season. Time sure does fly once the NFL gets going. Just figured I'd lay out some predictions as far as the next 36ish hours play out. Predicted AFC seeds: 1) Patriots - Pats lost in Miami week 17 last year, and used one of the worst offensive gameplans of BB's career in NE. Doubt that happens 2 years in a row. 2) Chiefs - I see them taking this week's game in SD, which gives them the 2nd seed if Oakland loses. 3) Steelers (locked) - I've been surprised at the lack of consistency from the offense this year. It'll be interesting to see if they can really make everything click once the "exhibition games" end. 4) Texans (locked) - Hard to see them doing much with Tom Savage leading the charge. "Savage vs. McGloin" will be a really dope headline for a playoff game though. 5) Raiders - I honestly think they'll lose against Denver this week. McGloin will most likely struggle against this defense. I think Denver will opt to play a division opponent tough as opposed to mailing it in. 6) Dolphins - Given that their playoff spot is already locked up, they're resting some key players this week ahead of their (likely) visit to Pittsburgh next week. Hard to see them picking up the win this week. Predicted NFC Seeds: 1) Cowboys (locked) - It'll be interesting to see how the defense plays coming out of the playoff bye. 2) Falcons - I think they'll win at home today with a week off on the line. 3) Seahawks - Wilson will try to carry them but it all will probably be for naught due to that awful O-line. 4) Packers - The offense is heating up at the right time. Wouldn't be surprised to see them make a run now that Rodgers is back to playing within the framework of their gameplans. 5) Giants (locked) - I'm really hoping this team makes it to the Super Bowl. PLEASE. 6) R-words - I like that. Really, though, many of my hometown friends will yell on social media about how their beloved Redskins can make a Super Bowl run. This is patently false. Black Monday victims: Mike McCoy - This is long overdue. The Chargers haven't competed in a long time and need wholesale changes up top. Chip Kelly - It's hard to justify this. While the 49ers have been an abject disaster all year long, Chip inherited said disaster and also had THE worst set of skill position players on offense and multiple garbage fires at QB. With this all being said, the Niners execs are awful, and their GM is one of the worst in the game. Chuck Pagano - I only think this happens if the Colts lose their final game of the season to the Jags. That being said, Pagano has seemingly been on the hot seat ever since the Colts hung their 2014 participation banner. He barely kept his job last year by hugging it out with the GM. Could easily see both of them getting canned after another lost year. Todd Bowles - While I'm also not certain Bowles deserves to be fired, it's clear that the Jets are in desperate need of a culture change. They have some talented building blocks but are unbelievably dysfunctional. If my predictions are 100% correct, there will be 7 head coaching vacancies heading into next season. EDIT: I just read that Gary Kubiak is stepping down from his position due to health concerns. That'll be a highly sought-after head coaching vacancy, no doubt. Edited January 1, 2017 by chococoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) I wasn't too surprised at the Steelers' offense this year. Maybe they were a biiit more inconsistent than I thought, but with Ben having to work with multiple new faces in Ladarius Green, Eli Rogers, Cobi Hamilton, etc. due to Martavis Bryant being suspended for the year, Heath Miller retiring, Markus Wheaton being hurt most of the season, he had to work on chemistry with new guys, and that's going to lead to some lower and not-as-consistent numbers. I mean, our top three receivers last year were: AB, Wheaton, and Bryant in that order. Heath Miller was also the starting TE throughout. This year AB was obviously still no. 1, but the no. 2 and 3s varied between Sammie Coates, Eli Rogers, Darrius Heyward-Bey, etc. And the starting TEs varied between Jesse James, Ladarius Green, Xavier Grimble, Cobi Hamilton, and David Johnson. That's a lot of TEs to go through in one season. And that's going to make a difference in offensive production. The chemistry has slowly gotten better though, with Ben working more and more with all these guys, and at the right time too! The Steelers have about half the vote on NFL.com right now for who is most likely to bring the Pats down. Edited January 1, 2017 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 They're probably the team most equipped to do it in the AFC. Which is why I would be v pleased for the Chiefs and Steelers to have to play each other before the winner travels to Gillette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I wouldn't mind that matchup too much either since we've already proven we can blow them the fuck out. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 And proven capable of losing to Miami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 And proven capable of losing to Miami Losing with Landry Jones, that is. Ben was hurt most of that game, remember. Also, the Dolphins are using a backup QB themselves this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Landry Jones threw one pass in that game, actually. I'm just saying, regular season blowouts don't always translate to postseason success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Oh yeah, Ben did come back in later, but he was still hurt and the Dolphins are still using a backup QB who doesn't seem to be looking too great given that it's 14-0 Patriots right now in Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Wow, the Steelers backups practically hand the Browns the game on a silver platter and the latter still can't win...LOL The Chargers have become the only team to lose to these clowns, nyahaha. (I don't get how that happened though now...lolwow) Still shows that Landry Jones is not backup or starter material though, because he came THAT close to losing to this lowly team anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Alrighty, with the Packers finishing off the Lions, that's a wrap! Here's the final playoff picture! AFC 1st Seed: Patriots 2nd Seed: Chiefs 3rd Seed: Steelers 4th Seed: Texans 5th Seed: Raiders 6th Seed: Dolphins Wild Card: Dolphins @ Steelers Raiders @ Texans Divisional: Lowest winning seed in Wild Card @ Patriots Highest winning seed in Wild Card @ Chiefs NFC 1st Seed: Cowboys 2nd Seed: Falcons 3rd Seed: Seahawks 4th Seed: Packers 5th Seed: Giants 6th Seed: Lions Wild Card: Lions @ Seahawks Giants @ Packers Divisional: Lowest winning seed in Wild Card @ Cowboys Highest winning seed in Wild Card @ Falcons Edited January 2, 2017 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well, the AFC turned out exactly as I had hoped/predicted. If the Pats don't make it to the SB, this year is a colossal failure. The AFC is just silly. I should've seen the Redskins' collapse coming. What a clown squad. The NFC playoffs will be much more interesting to watch imo, since there's a lot more parity among these teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) I know what you mean, if the Steelers don't at least get to the AFC Championship to face the Pats, that'll be quite a failure. :P The AFC did weaken due to QB injuries to the Dolphins and Raiders. But wait, you predicted the Ravens would join the Steelers in the playoffs, didn't you? That didn't happen. :P Edited January 2, 2017 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well, matched my predictions from yesterday. I did originally think the Ravens would make it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Oh, okay then. I really really want the AFC championship to be Steelers vs Patriots, man. We need a rematch that has Ben in it this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.