Rank the FE characters in SSB4 from best to worst competitively.

[A2ZOMG]

Glad to see that you post here as well, A2. I remember reading many of your posts in the Smashboards competitive forums. ^-^

I see that you also do not see Roy as the best. Curious, where do you personally see Roy in the next couple of months as the metagame continues to advance?

Believe it or not, I'm actually a pretty big Fire Emblem fan, even if I'm not obvious about it every day of the week. =P

Roy probably will get some good results relatively soon under a pro level player who is enamored with him (I wonder if ZeRo will do that, he previously said he felt Roy could be top tier). He has the reward to be a threat at all times, but once people learn the matchup, he'll probably just be upper mid tier. Not unviable, just not much reason to really use him when other characters clearly are safer than Roy. I know a lot of people are excited about Roy's grab game. It's good, but it's clearly not overpowered. He doesn't get nearly enough frame adv to true combo into his KO confirms, so ultimately he has to guess for the kill. Not that reads are bad, but the better characters in this game don't always need to make as many to end the stock. And Roy's kill options are sorta unsafe without his D-throw oki setups. Edgeguarding is kinda weak not unlike Ike given he can't cover that many options offstage, so even though his aerials can certainly kill offstage, he's a bit telegraphed when edgeguarding.

Marth probably does better in certain matchups like Rosalina and maybe Luigi compared to Ike, but some of the good characters in this game like Sheik and Fox also happen to be easily killed off Ike's throw combos. It's kinda debatable if either Marth or Ike are better, but again I think Ike's grab game probably tips things in terms of specific matchups.

Edited July 2, 2015 by A2ZOMG

[Marquess Odin]

Roy is lightyears ahead of any other FE character to me, followed by Ike who's really not bad.

I mean, Roy is just so good: nice combos, can kill at low percent, is cool as f.

I'm still a bit disappointed in Robin though, I was so hyped when he was announced but he turns out to be very slow and not that fun to play as.

About Lucina, I love playing her, I was surprised to see that she's considered not so great by the pro community.

[Knife]

Yet 12 people here still think Ike is the worst FE character. Pff. :P

Ike definitely was a contender for worst character at 3DS release.

[Anacybele]

Ike definitely was a contender for worst character at 3DS release.

That was then and this is now though. :P

I do admit though, my poor mercenary hero was awful back then. Glad to see Sakurai and his team noticed that!

[Jedi]

The order is easily

Roy > Ike > Marth > Robin > Lucina

Like there is little room for arguing, Roy and Ike lack the lag that hampers Marth, they aren't slow like Robin, and well see Marth for Lucina but add to the fact that she has no punch to her.

Marth may see the light at the top again if Sakurai patches his issues out, namely he lacks his old combo options and flow. Which Roy seems to have inherited, Marth takes precise moves in this game and while he did before, it wasn't at the cost of all his KO power and not having any combos with a non tippered hit.

Ike is clearly a tier above Marth now after the patch, considering his grab options, his general range, not being hampered by lag as much as Marth and having much better aerials.

[Haru_Ichiban]

Roy -> Ike -> Marth -> Lucina -> Robin

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Lol. You see that one Roy Worst Fe vote? That's meh!! And then I voted Ike to balance with Marth and Robin. But then I laugh as Lucina. (Not Sorry)

Vote for Shitz and gigs.

[Jave]

I voted for Ike as worst, but that was before the patch and I haven't played Ike much since.

[Tragonight]

I voted for Ike as worst, but that was before the patch and I haven't played Ike much since.

Doesn't the poll say "at the moment?"

[Jave]

Doesn't the poll say "at the moment?"

Yeah, but when I voted the patch has just come out and I haven't tried out Ike much since. I'll update my vote if I ever feel like I should.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Jave

[TheRepeat]

Roy > Ike > Robin > Marfcina

Roy has damage-racking ability in his grab combos, fast running speed and a disjoint (not a terribly great one, but nobody has a good disjoint in this game), in addition to the ability to close out stocks very easily. There's no doubt he's the best of the five, though that's really not saying much. His recovery is still crap and he has trouble with capable projectile-users.

Ike's potential is mostly in doubles, seems like. He's the kill-power behind the Pikachu or Sheik teammate. In singles, he's too slow to really be capable in high-level play; just like in Brawl, his biggest results come from exploiting the opponent's mistakes, which are rare and unrewarding in high-level play.

(Pre-patch, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he was the worst character in the game. Now? Idk. I accidentally clicked on him for worst on this page tho :/)

Speaking of slow, holy shit, Robin, you're terrible. You need an OOS option, less lag on Arcfire, and more uses for the Levin Sword. Robin's a really technical character, but doesn't get too much for all that work; Robin's air and ground speed are both unbelievably terrible, meaning s/he can't follow up on anything and has to rely on really, really hard reads to get any results. But, Robin does have a healthy projectile in Arcthunder (and a good long-range kill move in Thoron), the best recovery of the five FE characters, a command grab (albeit a laggy one) in Nosferatu, and good kill power if the Levin Sword is out and unstaled. Rushdown characters (e.g. Sonic, Fox) are the bane of Robin's existence, though, and wouldn't you know it, pretty much every high-tier is a rushdown character.

Still, Robin's better than Marth and Lucina. Both are designed to be spacing-based characters, but their aerials are too laggy and they have no tools to deal with anyone with a projectile. I flip-flop back and forth on who I think is better of the two, and right now I'm thinking it's Lucina. Sure, her spacing is less rewarding than Marth's, but her smashes in general are more versatile for not relying on a tiny-ass sweetspot. In particular, jab 1->fsmash is more useful for her, since it doesn't lead into a Marth tipper but it does land the sourspot, which is better for Lucina. (This is the main reason why I'm placing her higher atm.)

It's all moot, of course, because a perfectly-spaced fair or nair is still punishable if they block it at all. Marth and Lucina can't approach, meaning they rely on the opponent to do so; and that's why they are crushed so bad by anyone with a good projectile (like Sheik, who can camp for days), especially on FD or Smashville. Roy has similar problems with projectiles, but I think his strengths greatly outweigh that weakness.

That buff to Marth/Lucina's jab is nice and all, but it's not enough to make them not suck.

/rant

[Ragnell]

Roy > Ike > Robin > Marfcina

/rant

A lot of that changed in the last two patches. The FE chararcters all still require quite a bit of skill to use, but it seems like they all have the tools to perform at least reasonably well in the right hands now.

Robin got reduced endlag on practically all his specials, reduced landing lag on aerials, and improved hitboxes on at least upsmash. Best of all, his throws now combo incredibly well into jab and tilts at low percents, and a hoo ha at higher percents. While his movement speed is trash, and his grab range is still pretty crappy, his punish game just got an incredible boost (probably the biggest buff of last patch). He may still not be viable at major tourneys, but he may very well be lower-mid tier now, rather than near the bottom.

Marth and Lucina also got huge buffs to their aerials and various other attacks. I believe every single aerial got reduced landing lag, making short hop aerials much safer and thus making their spacing game more solid. Jab, upB, neutB, and uptilt also got key buffs. I'm no expert on Marth vs. Lucina, but the general consensus I've heard is that you should be spacing (and thus trying to tipper) with both characters, so Marth is better due to earlier kill options. I also heard something a while back about Marth being safer on shield with all untippered attacks, though I have no idea if that's been patched recently.

Meahwhile, Ike has been steadily buffed in every patch, to the point where he's now accepted by many pros to be a credible threat comparable to (or even exceeding) Roy. On top of his great aerials, good jab, reasonable tilts, and vastly improved killing dash attack, his throw combos are brutal. His edgeguarding is also really solid compared to the other FE characters. He still requires good spacing and precise neutral play, but his punish game is fantastic and he has the tools to deal with a lot of upper tier characters.

I honestly have no idea what order I would place the FE characters in now. With customs on, I think Ike might be the best, but w/o customs, I'll play it safe and say:

Roy = Ike ≥ Marth >> Lucina ≥ Robin

Edited August 6, 2015 by Ragnell

[Anacybele]

Oh yeah, I think at this point now, Ike with customs is the best. Dat Close Combat! Aether Wave and Aether Drive are great too, the former because projectile and the latter because recovery.

[Ragnell]

Oh yeah, I think at this point now, Ike with customs is the best. Dat Close Combat! Aether Wave and Aether Drive are great too, the former because projectile and the latter because recovery.

I personally don't see a whole lot of use for Aether Wave, as it is shorter (i.e. worse recovery), still pretty punishable, and lets opponents escape more easily than vanilla Aether, but Drive is definitely a solid option for improved horizontal recovery and better ability to hit opponents through the stage. Close Combat is obviously amazing for Ike, though it doesn't 100% invalidate normal QD. And his neutral B customs are both big improvements too. Furious Eruption is almost objectively better than standard Eruption, and Tempest is a brutal edgeguarding move against certain opponents, giving Ike a giant advantage in a few matchups.

Roy not having any customs definitely hurts him in comparison with all Ike gets from his customs. I believe I heard Marth and Lucina get a little better with customs (again, I know very little about those two), but Robin really doesn't get much from his customs either, so customs on definitely favors Ike.

[Anacybele]

Aether Wave is fast and has a projectile. How is it not useful? :/ And it's not THAT much shorter than regular Aether.

I prefer it over Aether Drive because I simply cannot get a handle on Aether Drive's range and direction... I keep failing to recover with it when I'm trying to use its horizontal distance.

I agree on Furious Eruption being better than regular Eruption. Tempest IS good for edgeguarding, but it does like no damage.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Anacybele

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Aether Wave is fast and has a projectile. How is it not useful? :/ And it's not THAT much shorter than regular Aether.

I prefer it over Aether Drive because I simply cannot get a handle on Aether Drive's range and direction... I keep failing to recover with it when I'm trying to use its horizontal distance.

I agree on Furious Eruption being better than regular Eruption. Tempest IS good for edgeguarding, but it does like no damage.

> Jump off stage.

> Charge Tempest

> Release...

> Gimp.

It's no different from Bowser Jr.'s air cannon.

[Anacybele]

I'm aware. I still don't like that it does no damage...

[Ragnell]

I'm aware. I still don't like that it does no damage...

Honestly, Eruption should never be used outside of edgeguarding anyway. And Tempest has the potential to kill at literally 0%, so I would say it's even better than the other Eruptions in matchups where it can actually edgeguard (i.e. characters with bad recoveries). I would say that Furious Eruption is better against the cast as a whole, but in maybe 1/3 of matchups Tempest is significantly better.

Regardless, Ike really appreciates customs on. He doesn't get as big a boost from them as say Palutena or Donkey Kong, but I think he clearly is the most improved FE character. Given that he's already one of the better FE reps (if not the best) I think he probably edges out the rest in the customs environment.

[Anacybele]

Eh, well, I also like having blue fire on my Ike. :P But you do have a point about the edge-guarding thing.

[Sentacotus]

While I agree that Eruption shouldn't really be used outside of edge guarding its also one of those moves you don't wanna sleep on. The reverse hitbox is huge and people tend to underestimate it as demonstrated by good ol Alpharad here.

https://youtu.be/ogB53C39hZQ?t=59s

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I'm still the only Roy on worst character even though it was a joke vote.

[Dotty]

Furious Eruption is almost objectively better than standard Eruption

I was under the impression that default Eruption not only kills much earlier, but also has the lowest hitbox of all Eruptions (not fully charged), letting you hit characters more easily while they recover.

Maybe that's not enough to be the best, but it doesn't make Furious seem objectively better to me?

[Anacybele]

But doesn't Furious Eruption have a wider range, letting you hit from farther away with it? I would've thought that would make it easier to hit characters...

[Ragnell]

I was under the impression that default Eruption not only kills much earlier, but also has the lowest hitbox of all Eruptions (not fully charged), letting you hit characters more easily while they recover.

Maybe that's not enough to be the best, but it doesn't make Furious seem objectively better to me?

Interesting. I was under the impression that they did the same damage but with varying hitbox size and recoil damage. But you are right that they are quite different. I tested it a little in training, and found that vanilla Eruption has a higher damage output than Furious Eruption uncharged, while Furious Eruption has a higher charged output. Vanilla also has diagonal knockback, as opposed to Furious Eruption's vertical knockback. Amazingly, uncharged Eruption kills Mario almost 50% earlier than Furious Eruption at the center of FD (~150% vs. ~205%). However, fully charged Furious Eruption kills Mario sooner than vanilla even at the edge of FD (where one would imagine vanilla Eruption's diagonal knockback would be an advantage).

So you're right that vanilla Eruption is definitely an option for competitive play. My instant reaction is that it might be amazing on a stage like Duck Hunt with close blast zone walls, while Furious Eruption would definitely be better on stages like Halberd, with low blast ceilings. It also depends how much you usually charge Eruption and whether your opponent has the ability to recover over regular Eruption.

EDIT: don't take my testing for certain; I'm no hitbox expert, so the angles and such might be due to errors on my part.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ragnell

[Vajra]

With the 1.1.0. version update, the metagame has shifted once again. All of the FE characters, except Roy, have received buffs in this patch. I will wait just a little while longer for the changes to settle before revamping the poll.

Good to see Robin finally getting some substantial buffs. I am very much looking forward to seeing how this would impact his competitive value.

^-^

Edited August 8, 2015 by Xuan Wu