Over-analyzing the stories in the Fire Emblem

[Locke087]

I am not going to bore you with too long an introduction but let’s just say I wanted to over-analyze the crap out of Fire Emblem 7’s incredible story (to show people there much more to the story meets the eye). Also anyone who wants to do the same for other fire emblems can do here as well (if no one does it I may do 9 as well which also has a really good story,)

BTW MASSIVE spoilers are in going to be in this thread (duh).

So let’s begins I am going to start with basic overview talking a little about FE 6. In FE 6 the main antagonist is King Zephiel a man who lost complete faith in mankind do to his father’s repeated attempts to kill him and the chaos that was his family. So in FE 7 they decided to further explore what drove a man such as Zephiel to his breaking point, not explicitly mind you, but they would explore how someone’s family can affect them for good or bad. They would speak as well about the value of life and that people could improve and change (this is mainly shown by Jaffar and Nino). Which properly juxtaposes with Zephiel view that all men deserve to die, because we all at our heart, selfish.

And so the main themes of FE 7 are, Family, the value of life, and the goodness in man. The exploration of these themes in 7 are big way that 6 (even though 6 hardly has a story) and 7 are connected.

Okay with that out of the way let’s start up

Okay so I don’t want to write a 12 page essay so I am not going to go in to crazy detail and I am not going to do a plot summary

Lyn’s story

Though it might seem kind of irrelevant Lyn’s story does play into the theme here well especially with FE 6 in mind.

Here is a couple of point

1. Dorcas it in the chapter he is introduced applies to theme fairly well. In the chapter Dorcas needing money for his sick wife take a job with some bandits which ironically enough end up attacking his own wife. After Lyn talk to him he realize the error of ways his that what doing put people like his wife in danger and end up joining up with Lyn.

2. When they happen upon Nils and he pleaded with them to help rescue Ninian, Lyn is faced with a choice of weather to help Nils and risk not reaching her grandfather in time, or leave cause ain't nobody got time for that. But Lyn go to help Nils even though she risks not be able to see her grandfather alive a selfless act indeed, that ended up paying off in the end.

3. And near the end of the campaign we learn that Lyn parents where not accepted by her father though there was different a reason for it, this still reflective of Zephiel plight. But the difference was in the results because Lyn mother lived a happy life even after her father shunned them, why because she loved her husband and she loved her family, something Zephiel did not have as he even distanced himself from Guinevere his sister.

4. This is more Easter eggy then anything but when Lundgren is trying to kill Lyn’s Father he did so by poisoning him, this is the same way that Zephiel father tried killing him that finally set him off and the difference here again is in the reaction, Zephiel went for revenge and Lyn’s father went for absolution, to right what he did wrong with his kids.

And that it for Lyn's story (at least that I feel the need to point out at the moment). but I will update with the Eliwood and Hector campaigns soon, I wasn't going to post until I was finished but the site decided otherwise, so I will update it bit by bit as I have time.

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Ok time to start on Eliwood's/Hector's story

1. One of the of most notable thing about Fe 7 is that unlike every other fire emblem (to my knowledge from a thread I read here this also applies to the couple of Fire Emblems I have not played yet namely 2, 3/12, I have played a small amount of 5) in event that gets the ball rolling is not is when bla bla Country suddenly attacks bla bla Country. Though Nergal gets the country of Laus to join his cause by appealing to Darin ambition, they are hardly the main driving force in the plot and are not even close to the main enemy, which is Nergal and the black fang. The main thing that get the plot started is when Elbert goes missing and Eliwood goes to find him, worrying for his safety.

The are bits and thing that happen between the beginning and the port of badon but I will cover that later and go to the section the Port of Badon though the Dread Isle.

1. When they go to the port to get a ship they soon find out that no one will take them to the dread isle but Fargus and his crew who are Pirates. This sets Lyn off cause view Pirates the same as the Bandits who killed her entire clan. Therefore she will not trust them as she thinks all these type of people are the same. But it turns out that Fargus has a heart of gold (kinda like the situation with Gonzalez in fire emblem)offering alternative to paying the price in goal, offering to protect them on the ship, recusing Ninian out at sea, and giving them one of his most trusted crew members dart to help them out. Dart is also a great example of how Fargas is as a person, while Dart is in conversation with Farina, Farina starts talking to Dart about treasure and Dart expresses interest in finding a rare pirate treasure. When Farina asks him what he would do with all the money Dart says that all he wants to do with the treasure is hide it again for someone else to find it because he doesn't really want the money he just likes the thrill of finding treasure. This is the thing about Fargus he could've taken their money on the port as the only way for them to support his ship but he offers them the option to of a challenge for the fun of it because Fargus goes on pirate adventures for the thrill of it.

2. On the ship before the battle on hector mode, Lyn and Hector have a very cool conversation. In it we learn that Hector's parents are as well are dead though in a less tragic way then Lyn's. As they in on in this conversation and remiss reminisce over their shared tragedy of losing their parents, they contemplate how they do not want Eliwood to face the same grief that they have and to lose his father and is big reason for them helping Eliwood.

3. While they were heading to the dread isle Nergal busts Leila's cover and orders Jaffar to kill her and place her body in a place where they can find it on the dread isle. When they land Matthew and Hector find Leila's body. Hector swears revenge against Nergal, The Matthews reaction is super sweet and reflects genuine sorrow and he comments on how he had planned to ask Leila to settle down with him after he was finished with this, but he laments that he was too late and should've asked sooner (frankly I wish I had the quote with me because the way Matthew says it is perfect). After that he only asked that he's given time to find somewhere to bury her. What's really cool is that if you bring Matthew into the next battle with you he will comment to you that this is no time for mourning that Leila would've wanted wanted for him to help you right now. This and his reaction to Leila's death is one the things that makes Matthew as a character so great. This also greatly effect Hector and Matthew's thoughts on Jaffar later on.

4. A small little note here but good to point out nonetheless is that Uhai refuses to straight up kill her when he has the chance because that would not be honorable and because she's a woman from the Sacae, showing that the black fang are not just cold blooded murderers. This is your first (if I remember right) big hint at the heart of the black fang, that these are not your typical bad guys.

5. And then they finally arrived at Dragon the gate (thanks to Uhai directions) they meet up with Ephidel and Nergal. Ephidel stops to greet them, Hector tries to kill Ephidel fails to hit him and Ephidel kidnaps Ninian. When they arrived the dragon's gate they find miracle there with new unit dragon's gate they find Nergal there with Ninian and Nils using them to open the gate. Elbert still weak from all the quintessence Nergal has been sucking out of uses the last of his strength to stab Nergal in the back causing Nergal to be temporarily weakened and to abandoned (so can't control the dragons), but it was the last bit the strength Elbert had so he also died shortly after the Gate partially opened and Nergal now gone. Eliwood and company escape, Nergal having left Ephidel then causing him to be destroyed. Showing Nergal’s lack of care for what he created and Elbert selfless nature.

6.The last little part in the section that I want to talk about happens right after the land back in the portable and The last little part in the section that I want to talk about happens right after the land back from the dread isle. Nils and Ninian tell Eliwood of the time they spent at the dragon's gate and what his father did for them there. While they languished away in there his father would often tell they stories of his son and his family, and happy times he had with them, he did this to help keep their spirits up. As you can see from this and his family was his main source of happiness and when he thought to cheer up Ninian and Nils, this was the first place you went to in this we can see from this this man's family is what got him and Nils and Ninian, through this tough ordeal.

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Okay with this section done we can move on the next two sections, which will be the most important. I will be covering the Bern chapters, Four fanged offense though Cog of Destiny. The section after that will be will be all about Nergal, the Morphs and the end of the game, these will next two section will be my next two updates. These might take a little longer to make as these two sections go very deep down the rabbit hole and could several pages (3-5 pages, long, for reference this one was 2) long not as many direct connections to Fe 6 here and there is not as much interesting stuff here as there will be in the other two sections, but I hope you like like it regardless.

A couple chapter before we are introduced to Pent and Louise and they offer to help everyone though bern because Louise is a distant cousin and friend of the queen of bern. Something interesting is that the Queen Hellene and the King Desmond and Pent and Louise relationship where ment to compare (something I will do later) and contrast each with each other. Hellene and Desmond marriage was a forced marriage done for political reasons. There relationship is totally devoid of love and because Desmond loved a different person and he can't see Hellene and by extension Zephiel as anyone other that the symbol of what was taken away from him. Therefore Hellene became an object of resentment for Desmond, Hellene tried make it work it but Desmond's hatred and unfaithfulness eventually led to Hellene becoming as bitter and hate filled as him. This lead them become a essentially divorced, and the family became split with Hellene and Zephiel living in a one castle and Desmond and Guinevere living in the other Castle (I'm sorry Eliwood but your Queen is living in another castle.... Sorry could not pass the joke). Then they started using the kids as a part of their plans to get back at each other. Desmond pushing for Guinevere's future husband to be king, and Hellene pushing for Zephiel to be king. This is not a power struggle, if Desmond just wanted to maintain power he could easily influence Zephiel as he idolizes his father and wants nothing more that his acceptance and the family to be together again (and he worked insanely hard so he could get his approval but since Zephiel was so naturally skilled at everything it just made Desmond jealous of his skill). No this is all about spite, and I going to tell you the modern divorce parallels here pretty crazy on point. (something I didn't really think about tell I started typing about it.)

Okay I am still working on the other parts of this sections I will try to have the rest up next week.

in the mean time here is something from the morph section talking about the end of the game

So I have heard people say that Ninian being brought back to life at the end of the game is a Deus Ex Machina, well what if told you that while may be a bit cheap, it is not a Deus Ex Machina. You see magical resurrection is a well established as being possible in Fire Emblem 7, tell me what is Nergal army entirely made in the end of the game?

Some Guy "The thing Nergal calls morphs which are the reanimated bodies of Nergals former army. But these people are just shells of their former selves, sure their bodies are active, but their souls are gone, this is far from the complete resurrection Ninian has.

Me "True, these people are all shells with no sense of self or personality and this applies to every morph Nergal has made expect one. Sonia, who is self aware (to point of clamming repeatedly to be human) and has retained a small amount of personality and free will. Sonia is proof that Nergal experiments have led him closer to actual resurrection. But Nergal still lacked the power and knowledge to do it, something Bramimond has in spades. Bramimond sacrificed everything he knew for the power that he gained, his life, his gender, his personality, all into the darkness. He becomes a reflexion of the person standing in front of him, but he always retains that dark power. Also Ninian's resurrection does serve a purpose to the plot, as when Brammimond does shows that true resurrection is possible through righteous and honest means, he is meant to kind of be the reflection to Nergal showing all the power and Nergal could've attain and still not gone down the path he did. Brammimond also succeeded on his own in ways that Nergal do couldn't even by sucking the power of the greatest warriors around the land. This shows the value of patience and well as sacrifice, which is also at least when it comes to patience, a way that Athos was I was meant to contrast with Nergal showing how their past's split when Nergal who was his good friend greedily started seeking after things he didn't fully understand, but Athos even though he kept studying and searching for knowledge he did not fall into the same trap.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Locke087

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

actually this is pretty cool, i would like to hear more sometime

[Knight]

Not bad, I like where this is going. The theme of family and goodness is something I always thought was present in FE7, but it's cool seeing a list of all the occurrences and how they connect.

[vonretic]

This is nice because just recently I've finished again Fire Emblem and I've payed more attention this time to the story than the last time I've played it, and I've got to admit the game has one of the best stories in the entire series. Especially now that I've gone through Hector mode and I've learned the sad truth about Kushina, I really felt sorry for him, and for Nergal too.

[Locke087]

Updated, with the first of three sections, this section is not as interesting as the other ones will be, but I hope you like it regardless. The next section will the Bern chapters and I should finish it in 2-3 days maybe sooner. Also tell me anything I missed and I will add it to the Op.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Locke087

[Paper Jam]

One line that I thought was particularly poignant was from Lyn at the end of "Battle Before Dawn": "His parents are alive. Yet they're both awful. I feel so sorry for him."

I'm sure you'll comment on it yourself, and I look forward to it.

[Tragonight]

This is neat. Following, hope to hear more.

[Paper Jam]

This promises to be an interesting thread. I hope you continue it.

[Knight Falchion]

Y'know, I was disappointed with FE7's story when I went back to play it because it wasn't absolutely perfect like some people(no one here) led me to believe, but this is helping me look at it in a new light- mostly 'cause of the themes you mention; I had never considered those. It's also an interesting read in general, so followed.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Ambling Falchion

[Locke087]

@Paper Jam. Ya I am still working on it, I hope to have the next section up by the end of the week maybe sooner this was just a crazy week with school and other stuff....

Edited October 5, 2015 by Locke087

[Locke087]

Sorry for the double post but...... I promised to update this week so......

Anyways I was busy this week so I updated with what I got so far and a little extra from the end the game, I will finish the Bern section next week.

[Tragonight]

A little confusion. Bramimond sacrificed everything he knew for the power that he gained, his life, his gender, his personality, all into the darkness. He becomes a reflexion of the person standing in front of him, but he always retains that dark power. Bramimond possessed the power to resurrect Ninian, not Athos. Athos was patient, and Athos was wise. He pursued knowledge and power as well as Nergal, but never came close to Bramimond's power. Nergal, who once knew Athos, went down a different road in pursuit of power. He was more successful than Athos in that he could resurrect and create Morphs, but still not as powerful as Bramimond.

Athos was patient. Nergal was not. The power that Athos gained through patience isn't the same as the power Bramimond gained through self-sacrifice. Nergal was too selfish to sacrifice himself for power. He wanted control over it. Therefore he could never reach Bramimond's level of power.

[ruadath]

I always thought a cool little parallel was the difference in reaction between the bandit and Hector when Florina (and her pegasus) fell on them, respectively.

Edited October 12, 2015 by ruadath

[Locke087]

A little confusion. Bramimond sacrificed everything he knew for the power that he gained, his life, his gender, his personality, all into the darkness. He becomes a reflexion of the person standing in front of him, but he always retains that dark power. Bramimond possessed the power to resurrect Ninian, not Athos. Athos was patient, and Athos was wise. He pursued knowledge and power as well as Nergal, but never came close to Bramimond's power. Nergal, who once knew Athos, went down a different road in pursuit of power. He was more successful than Athos in that he could resurrect and create Morphs, but still not as powerful as Bramimond.

Athos was patient. Nergal was not. The power that Athos gained through patience isn't the same as the power Bramimond gained through self-sacrifice. Nergal was too selfish to sacrifice himself for power. He wanted control over it. Therefore he could never reach Bramimond's level of power.

True all it, but I never said Athos was as powerful as Nergal after all quintessence he gotten (let alone Bramimond) in fact when Nergal defeats Athos in battle he marks it as a mile stone of the power of he gained over time, but he gained this power off the back of others he does not believe in his own base ability, because he own he is not that powerful on his own merits this is shown when Elbert stabs him (in effect weakening him to normal power) and the moment of truth happens and Nergal would have to use only his base power he runs and then proceed to wait around and get more quintessence, because Nergal is a leech and lacks the patience to powerful on his own. Remember Nergal feared Athos he had already beaten him once, and at base level Athos is alot more powerful then him because the power Athos though patience he keeps because it is all his own, and want Nergal gains off the back others he loses because because was never his to begin with, kind of like when you cheat on a test in moment you may do good but that knowledge will not stick with you. btw. Athos could do most things Nergal can do, but the key is that he chooses not to do them.

On to Bramimond thank you for pointing out the Sacrifice theme I missed that, though I still think that Bramimond certainly exhibits a ton patience as well though (I mean waiting in a room with no one else for ages, that is patience) getting that kind of power requires as much patience as it does sacrifice. But the sacrifice thing is one thing where both Athos and Nergal fell short as neither were willing to sacrifice themselves for that kind power, Athos out of fear of becoming like Nergal and Nergal out of selflessness and need to control everything in life, the man Nergal had become was totally incapable of preforming the type of sacrifice necessary to become like Bramimond. Athos in turn when he saw what became of friend he became to fearful to even try. Both Athos and Bramimond are meant to be compared to Nergal cause both exhibit aspects that Nergal lacks (and in Athos case, have history with him), though Bramimond is admittedly the more apt comparison.

Oh i am totally stealing your first line for the main post :)

[Tragonight]

Nergal is a leech and lacks the patience to powerful on his own. Remember Nergal feared Athos he had already beaten him once, and at base level Athos is alot more powerful then him because the power Athos though patience he keeps because it is all his own, and want Nergal gains off the back others he loses because because was never his to begin with, kind of like when you cheat on a test in moment you may do good but that knowledge will not stick with you. btw. Athos could do most things Nergal can do, but the key is that he chooses not to do them.

That is a good analogy. However, doesn't Nergal sort of contradict the idea of patience as well? He exhibited his patient side after Athos initially defeated him, by going into hiding and slowly draining the quintessence from others. He wanted to make sure he had enough power before trying to drain the quintessence of a dragon, and he did that by slowly but surely gathering the quintessence of other strong beings. Nergal learned his lesson after Athos defeated him. He learned that haste wasn't the answer, otherwise he wouldn't have lost to Athos. At the time he faced him, he was just experimenting with the power of quintessence. Nergal thought it made him invincible, but the small amount that he greedily consumed wasn't enough to help him beat Athos and company.

The rest of your post is well-written, keep it up.

[Locke087]

That is a good analogy. However, doesn't Nergal sort of contradict the idea of patience as well? He exhibited his patient side after Athos initially defeated him, by going into hiding and slowly draining the quintessence from others. He wanted to make sure he had enough power before trying to drain the quintessence of a dragon, and he did that by slowly but surely gathering the quintessence of other strong beings. Nergal learned his lesson after Athos defeated him. He learned that haste wasn't the answer, otherwise he wouldn't have lost to Athos. At the time he faced him, he was just experimenting with the power of quintessence. Nergal thought it made him invincible, but the small amount that he greedily consumed wasn't enough to help him beat Athos and company.

The rest of your post is well-written, keep it up.

That is good point but Nergal didn't learn his lesson fully. Let me explain, the cheating comparison is still apt here so I will use that.... Have you seen the lengths some people will go to cheat on a test? I once hear of a kid who put a small piece of paper inside his watch that could move with the dial spinner and he still got caught, that is crazy in the time the kid used to create this he could have just studied for test and put forth less effort, it is a special form of irony that cheaters have deal with as they have to go though more and more elaborate means to continue cheating in the end putting more effort than if they applied themselves to studying normally (ie. the seemingly easy way out turns to harder way out as there is not easy way out). Nergal very much operates on this same form of irony, spending years in shadows gaining power only to lose it all when Athos defeated him and again when Elbert stabbed him, he never learns a truly patience man would reconsider his actions, instead of just changing his approach, Nergal drive for power in a seemingly easy way (by taking it from dragon's) in the end turned out to be harder. in short cheater never prosper, a truly patience hard working man knows this and earns his knowledge.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Locke087

[madamebrasidas]

damn keep this up .. .attempting HHM for the first time (my casual ass is getting a rude awakening) and fe7 is the only GBA game I'll actually read the cutscenes for on replays.