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Nyzaxia

Kamui Optimization?

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I haven't seen a thread like this and the regular Unit Optimization thread is super long I didn't bother to look for an avatar section of it. Seeing as how there are so many options for the avatar's optimization, I figured it made sense to start a new thread. Now, I'm new to PvP and do not yet own the game so my whole build is hypothetical and could really suck when it comes down to it.

I like the male avatar quite a bit but I think having two children, while apparently not as good as it was in Awakening, is just too hard to pass up. I'll play both male and female to make a final call, but

Kamui (+Spd/-Mag) (maybe + Skl?)

Dark Blood Growth

HP 60

Str 60

Mag 25

Skl 55

Spd 65

Lck 60

Def 45

Res 25

Not bad.

Dark Blood Max Stats

HP 60

Str 32

Mag 28

Skl 30

Spd 35

Lck 29

Def 29

Res 30

Also not bad. Not sure if I'd end in this class or not, but definitely a sword wielding class.

Galeforce

Aether

Copycat Puppet

Hoshido (for Aether, admittedly not the best skill choice but idk what else to do, maybe Dragon Fang or Draconic Curse)

Swordfaire

Most likely marrying Femui to Zero and Mamui to Camilla. Let me know what you think, suggestions, criticisms, your own builds, anything.

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Well as far as I heard, PVP is currently being dominated by Generals and Power-hitting classes. I think this set is pretty decent for a playthrough but you might need to trend carefully when it comes to PVP.

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Power hitting? you mean like Sorcerers and Berserkers? Would Trueblade count? I was thinking of maybe doing that instead of Dark Blood.

Trueblade is a good option, but Elite Ninja is also another excellent option due to having access to the Yato and the throwing Brave Kunai.

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You'll probably always want to be able to use Yato, thanks to it basically being a even more versatile S rank weapon with no drawbacks. If it had a 1-2 range, there'd be nothing to stop you. Best classes you can use with it are trueblade, Paladin, and other A rank sword classes. Preferably a tanky one.

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Elite Ninja is pretty good, you should be using a class that has A or S rank in other weapon that is not swords but still being able to use them, since using Brave Sword over Yato is almost meaningless when you are killing anyways, and Brave Kunai grants you the ability to double from distance, also helps you with Weapon Triangle.

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List of A-sword (or better) classes, for reference:

White Blood: A-sword, A-stone, B-staves

Trueblade: S-sword

Weapons Master: A-sword, B-lance, B-axes

Dread Fighter (Link Bonus/DLC): A-sword, B-axes, B-kunai

Dark Blood: A-sword, A-stone, B-tome

Paladin: A-sword, A-lance

Brave Hero: A-sword, B-axes

Lodestar (DLC): S-sword

Vanguard (DLC): A-sword, B-axes

Great Lord (DLC): A-sword, B-lances

As for promoted classes with B-swords:

Elite Ninja: S-kunai, B-swords

Blacksmith: A-axes, B-swords

Dark Knight: A-tomes, B-swords

Bow Knight: A-bows, B-swords

Great Knight: A-lances, B-swords, B-axes

Grandmaster (DLC): A-tomes, B-swords

So these are the classes that can utilize Yato when promoted. As its a powerful weapon and Kamui's personal weapon, Kamui should probably end in one of the sword wielding classes in either of the above two lists.

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I don't know if the fact that the Yato (assuming we're talking about the Invisible Kingdom version)'s amazing bonuses are your main factor in keeping a sword class...

If that's the case, just letting you know that the stat bonus applies for the weapon being in your inventory regardless of if you can use it or not, and I therefore would not restrict myself from maining classes like Berserker or Holy Lancer and using forged weapons to reach a similar power to the Yato (if you have the patience to build those, at any rate)... That is, unless you desperately need that 5th weapon/item to use in PvP that your other units can't cover already.

If you do want to stick to swords and use the Yato as well... I'd say Trueblade is your best bet.

- Factoring the class' built-in bonuses and equipping the Yato, you essentially get +20 Crit and +20 Avoid, which I think already says a lot.

- Swordfaire gets the most benefit out of Trueblade because all you'll be using is swords anyway.

- +5 damage from Swordfaire and +4 from S rank in swords essentially means +9 damage on everything you use.

Your skillset is looking fine to me, as long as you don't plan on pairing up and using Attack Stance as I still accidentally do when it comes to Galeforce (I even tried unequipping a unit next to me as to remove the possibility of a Dual Strike, but it still counted as an Attack Stance), as those won't trigger it.

Edited by ItzMeeMario

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Or, I know that you always get the Yato bonus…. that's true enough. However, in the final battles of the game its also a:

16 might weapon with no particular drawbacks

does 75% against Dragonskin instead of 50%.

EDIT to be more polite in how I phrase it… Then again, the TC is asking about PvP, so I suppose this comes down to different prioritization's…. had forgotten and was thinking about in-game optimization…..

On in-game…

Example, the Lunatic IK final boss has 36 DEF and 28 DEF in its final form.

To deal 20 damage to it with other weapons, for example, you'd need:

Physical: 76 ATK

Magical: 68 ATK

To do it with Yato, you'd need:

63 ATK

Given what's realistically practical to achieve in the main game in terms of stacking damage [without stuff like flagrant skill purchase abuse, grinding + Eternal Seals, etc.), you're most likely to get your best damage against the final boss with the Yato. Moreover, any damage stacking that you do on other weapons can also be stacked onto the Yato, except that it scales at 75% instead of 50%… yes, there are Braves, of course, but with their much lower base might and only 50% damage, you'd need to do a TON of stacking to get them to surpass Yato.

Edited by astrophys

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If that's the case, just letting you know that the stat bonus applies for the weapon being in your inventory regardless of if you can use it or not, and I therefore would not restrict myself from maining classes like Berserker or Holy Lancer and using forged weapons to reach a similar power to the Yato (if you have the patience to build those, at any rate)... That is, unless you desperately need that 5th weapon/item to use in PvP that your other units can't cover already.

I did not think about that. Good shit. Yato's bonuses are obviously some of the best in the game, but how does using a forged weapon work with it then? Do it's bonuses stack with Yato's? I thought I read somewhere that the best effects are the ones that are used. Wouldn't that make any forging virtually obsolete?

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I did not think about that. Good shit. Yato's bonuses are obviously some of the best in the game, but how does using a forged weapon work with it then? Do it's bonuses stack with Yato's? I thought I read somewhere that the best effects are the ones that are used. Wouldn't that make any forging virtually obsolete?

Yes, forged weapons stack. As long as the Yato is in your inventory, you can equip any other weapon and get the stat bonuses from the Yato still.

That said, forging isn't made obsolete. It's just made even better for the Avatar, lol

Other example, Ryoma has his Raijin Katana which grants him +4 Str when he has it in his inventory. While using another sword, forged or not, the strength bonus will still apply.

I hope this was clear enough.

Edited by ItzMeeMario

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There is really no reason to use Kamui over logbook Kanna in the current meta, so I wouldn't bother trying to optimize him/her for PvP. Just worry about the main game.

...then what are your reasons NOT to use Kamui over Kanna?

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Yeah, I would like to know as well. Kamui gets a unique high-power weapon which essentially gives 16 points to his stat caps, surpassing Kanna by at least 7 points. Kamui also can get personal ability bonuses from Joker (and the less useful Felicia and Gunther) when paired up. Kamui can support with every unit in the army, allowing for better pair-up bonuses. And Kamui can reclass into a wider variety of classes with ease.

Meanwhile, all Kanna has is a better personal ability (even if you do need to use the subpar dragonstaones for it to activate)

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Defence Stance
Kamui skill and speed maxed with statues. All other stats capped as well. Equip with Yatogami final form in Invisible. Thunder Sword +7 as secondary.

Kamui (Front):
Odd Cry
Recover
Draconic Curse
Four Fangs
Nohr

Aqua (Back):
Aether
Sol
Lethality
Pavise
Aegis

Place on throne set to not move and stay. Watch all hilarity during defence battles.

I lost a lot of friends. >.>

Edited by Jeremy Yuuji Tan

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Defence Stance

Kamui skill and speed maxed with statues. All other stats capped as well. Equip with Yatogami final form in Invisible. Thunder Sword +7 as secondary.

Kamui (Front):

Odd Cry

Recover

Draconic Curse

Four Fangs

Nohr

Aqua (Back):

Aether

Sol

Lethality

Pavise

Aegis

Place on throne set to not move and stay. Watch all hilarity during defence battles.

I lost a lot of friends. >.>

That would be a Kanna build. And Kanna can't use Yato.

Kamui cannot get Odd Cry or Four Fangs without hacking or buying from hacked Kamuis.

Furthermore, the Thunder Sword can also be forced out and exploited as you cannot activate offensive skills with it and you lose a whopping 20 avoid (30 if you're counting Yato's 10 avoid bonus when equipped) from it.

Edited by ItzMeeMario

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Yea but there is a ridiculous amount of hacked skills out there already. I just buy whatever. For legit build I remove Odd Cry and Four Fangs and put tome and bow breaker and yes, no Lightning Sword. Not that it matters much since you don't need to equip Yatogami for the status buffs. You just need it in your inventory. Same as the emblems.

Other annoying builds would be all the breaker skills set. both counter with recovery and vengeance. Even legit learn-able skills allow for some annoying or downright hilarious setups. I stopped using that build though and just left the throne empty to give skills out on my castle since I'm playing other games now. people leeching me for Pavise, Aegis, Hoshido, Good Growth I guess since I set all the royal siblings and kamui with aqua.

Draconic curse is fun, but that aside I've also seen all those -6 skills full set, debuff hell lol...

Edited by Jeremy Yuuji Tan

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Yeah, I would like to know as well. Kamui gets a unique high-power weapon which essentially gives 16 points to his stat caps, surpassing Kanna by at least 7 points. Kamui also can get personal ability bonuses from Joker (and the less useful Felicia and Gunther) when paired up. Kamui can support with every unit in the army, allowing for better pair-up bonuses. And Kamui can reclass into a wider variety of classes with ease.

Meanwhile, all Kanna has is a better personal ability (even if you do need to use the subpar dragonstaones for it to activate)

Kamui was better as a tank back when guard stance was viable, but now that Witch's Poison completely shuts down tanks, offense is more important. Logbook exploits give Kanna better overall stat caps and Kanna can get higher SKL than Kamui allowing you to hit certain thresholds (100% Witch's Poison, 100% Breaking Sky). Yato also takes up an inventory slot which is actually a big deal in PvP since you need room for multiple Rainbow Elixirs, Vanished Disasters (remember staff durability is halved so VD only has one use) and different weapon types.

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Kamui was better as a tank back when guard stance was viable, but now that Witch's Poison completely shuts down tanks, offense is more important. Logbook exploits give Kanna better overall stat caps and Kanna can get higher SKL than Kamui allowing you to hit certain thresholds (100% Witch's Poison, 100% Breaking Sky). Yato also takes up an inventory slot which is actually a big deal in PvP since you need room for multiple Rainbow Elixirs, Vanished Disasters (remember staff durability is halved so VD only has one use) and different weapon types.

Okay, good point. Kanna can indeed min-max his/her stats to a greater extent than Kamui, allowing for specific shenanigans. But I can't imagine that making Kamui completely unviable. Although Rainbow Elixirs confer a larger or variety of bonuses, Yato should still be of some use with it's +4 ATT, + 4 SPD, and +10 Crit. And even if you prefer the weaker but more versatile Rainbow Elixir, nobody is forcing you to bring Yato to the battle. Not to mention that Yato is more of a sword with inherent benefits rather than a carryable stat-booster. Taking stat boosts into consideration, it boats the highest attack power out of any sword, without the drawbacks of the other high-power weapons (except if they're forged to crazy high levels). Unless you plan on running Kanna/Kamui in a class without swords, Yato will always have a use in a slot.

Also, you spoke of bringing multiple Rainbow Elixirs. Does that mean you can use several of them in one battle? I was under the impression only one could be used.

I'm not saying Kamui is better than Kanna. Just that he/she has a unique niche that shouldn't be overlooked.

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Also, you spoke of bringing multiple Rainbow Elixirs. Does that mean you can use several of them in one battle? I was under the impression only one could be used.

It's only once per battle per character, I meant multiple as in one for each of your attackers.

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While one could logbook abuse Kamui the same way, the only problem I see is... Logbook avatars can't use the Yato, and therefore can't receive its bonuses to keep up with an abused Kanna.

So yeah, in that sense, I'd see Logbook-exploited Kannas being superior overall.

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