Something that Bothers me about Sumeragi...

[Sentacotus]

Ok so I haven't even touched Revelations yet so maybe its revealed in there but something that's been bothering me is why Sumeragi would bring a defenseless baby (Corrin) a royal no less to a meeting with their sworn enemies. And yes I know that Garon deceived them into thinking it was peace talks but still. Why? What purpose does it serve and what does he have to gain to even risk it or to do it in the first place? Why not keep Corrin in the Hoshido capital and avoid this potentially dangerous situation in the first place. Hell even Chrom in Awakening leaves baby Lucina behind in the castle for the rest of the game.

Is this ever explained? Or did I miss something?

Edited April 13, 2016 by LordTaco42

[saisymbolic]

I always wondered that too, honestly. Even if it were a peaceful meeting, it would have been best to leave your children (because it is implied he brought along Ryoma, Hinoka and Corrinmui) at your palace.

The only reason I can think of is because he thought it was peaceful and perhaps Garon fooled him into thinking he was bringing his own children.

[Luankachu]

Accidentally posted on that other thread. Will copy-paste what I said there.

Ok so I haven't even touched Revelations yet so maybe its revealed in there but something that's been bothering me is why Sumeragi would bring a defenseless baby (Corrin) a royal no less to a meeting with their sworn enemies. And yes I know that Garon deceived them into thinking it was peace talks but still. Why? What purpose does it serve and what does he have to gain to even risk it or to do it in the first place? Why not keep Corrin in the Hoshido capital and avoid this potentially dangerous situation in the first place. Hell even Chrom in Awakening leaves baby Lucina behind in the castle for the rest of the game.

Is this ever explained? Or did I miss something?

Some of this stuff is only said in Revelations

Corrin already knew how to wield a sword, so I doubt they were defenseless, and if I'm remembering correctly, Ryoma and Kaze were there as well. Also, considering how they were supposed to be peace talks, maybe he wanted Corrin to befriend Garon's own children for diplomatic reasons? Sumeragi was also said to have a similar personality to Corrin in some supports, so being naïve and making stupid decisions is nothing out of the ordinary. Hell, Sumeragi didn't even bring the Raijinto and the Yatonokami with him for that meeting. But this is just my headcanon. The game doesn't exactly confirm anything.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Luankachu

[Abvora]

Well, for one, Corrin wasn't a baby. He was able to walk, talk, and draw pictures, which is at least out of toddler-hood.

For another, Sumeragi thought they were going to a peace talk. He might have brought Corrin and Ryoma (and Hinoka? not sure about her) there to start learning how to do diplomacy. He might have been tricked into thinking Garon was bringing his kids as a sign of "let's DEFINITELY not fight". He might have needed them there for the negotiations--maybe an engagement or "ward trading" (think Theon Greyjoy in ASOIAF) was planned to occur.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Abvora

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Accidentally posted on that other thread. Will copy-paste what I said there.

Some of this stuff is only said in Revelations

Corrin already knew how to wield a sword, so I doubt they were defenseless, and if I'm remembering correctly, Ryoma and Kaze were there as well. Also, considering how they were supposed to be peace talks, maybe he wanted Corrin to befriend Garon's own children for diplomatic reasons? Sumeragi was also said to have a similar personality to Corrin in some supports, so being naïve and making stupid decisions is nothing out of the ordinary. Hell, Sumeragi didn't even bring the Raijinto and the Yatonokami with him for that meeting. But this is just my headcanon. The game doesn't exactly confirm anything.

Sumeragi didn't bring the Raijinto? But he has it in his hand during the cutscene where he gets arrowed to death? Or is there another lightning-y sword that I'm forgetting...

Edited April 13, 2016 by L95

[Luankachu]

Sumeragi didn't bring the Raijinto? But he has it in his hand during the cutscene where he gets arrowed to death? Or is there another lightning-y sword that I'm forgetting...

Forgot to rewatch that cutscene. I thought he didn't because why wouldn't Garon take Raijinto back with him, since he is taking Corrin anyway?

Edit: I just rewatched the cutscene. I didn't notice lightning in his Katana (I have bad eyesight, so I might be wrong. And even if there was lightning in it, wouldn't he be able to deflect some arrows with the lightning?). I personally think that sword might instead be the Hagakure or a Sunrise Katana.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Luankachu

[JasonsOrigin]

I like to assume Corrin was a very curious and nosy child. In my head he was excited to meet the other royal children and tried to sneak along but was quickly found by the previous Saizo. Sumeragi, being the benevolent king and father he was, allowed for him to follow closely behind. It was supposed to a peaceful negotiation after all...

[Azure Sen]

Pretty much what everyone else said: Corrin was old enough to learn how to use a sword properly and have formed clear memories of the events, which means he was probably around 5-6 at the time, since Hinoka mentions taking up arms when she was 7 in one of her supports and he still needs to be younger than her.

[Sentacotus]

Yeah I don't think Sumeragi brought Raijinto if he did lets face it Garon would take the sword and the kid. I was more wondering if there was something revealed in support convos that explained this or gave backstory and all. I don't recall where its mentioned that either Ryoma or Hinoka were there. I know Kaze was because I got their support in Birthright. And I thought Corrin was a baby because in the cutscene the perspective is that of what appears to be a baby in a swaddle or something but I guess he could be a toddler although I just missed where that was mentioned.

[Thor Odinson]

Actually, if it was Hakagure, and Garon took that, it'd certainly make sense why it was obtainable in Birthright considering where you were fighting.

He had it in Revelation, too.

[joshcja]

I just assumed it was bring your kid to work day.

The thing I've always wondered was... how a goat breeds to give birth to a lobster, strawberry shortcake, and a pineapple.

Edited April 13, 2016 by joshcja

[Luankachu]

I don't recall where its mentioned that either Ryoma or Hinoka were there.

I don't recall where I read that either. I remember seeing it somewhere, though, so I'll check his supports later.

[Abvora]

I don't recall where I read that either. I remember seeing it somewhere, though, so I'll check his supports later.

Ryoma mentions he was there in Revelation Chapter 15; he says he blames himself for not being able to properly protect Corrin because of his jealousy. Hinoka I'm not certain about, some of what she says could be seen as suggesting she was there, but it's not clear ("I wish I'd been stronger" is kind of ambiguous).

[Tolvir]

One of the things I think help explain this is that Nohr and Hoshido before this event actually had good relations. To the point that even Garon and Sumeragi were friends. Based off of the way Xander talks about Garon before being possessed, he sounds like a good person. A benevolent king, good father, and possibly a good friend. I would say he was possessed shortly before the death of Sumeragi so what I think happened is as follows. Sumeragi gets a message from Nohr that they wish to have a peace meeting, Sumeragi thinking of it as a way to see an old friend goes. He takes his children with him so that maybe the two royal families can start forming a bond as well. Unfortunately for him, Garon is already possessed and he doesnt realize that this is a trap from Anankos to kill him and capture Corrin.

That is what I think happened, but if that isnt the case then the only other explanation is that Sumeragi was a dumbass.

[Based Goomy]

How did Sumeragi even bring you? In his death scene, it shows him getting shot, and you're in the background until Garon grabs you. If you're a baby, the positioning doesn't even make sense, unless you're at the point where you can walk, then still why did he bring you with him? In either case you should have been left home with Mikoto.

[Abvora]

How did Sumeragi even bring you? In his death scene, it shows him getting shot, and you're in the background until Garon grabs you. If you're a baby, the positioning doesn't even make sense, unless you're at the point where you can walk, then still why did he bring you with him? In either case you should have been left home with Mikoto.

Well, for one, Corrin wasn't a baby. He was able to walk, talk, and draw pictures, which is at least out of toddler-hood.

For another, Sumeragi thought they were going to a peace talk. He might have brought Corrin and Ryoma (and Hinoka? not sure about her) there to start learning how to do diplomacy. He might have been tricked into thinking Garon was bringing his kids as a sign of "let's DEFINITELY not fight". He might have needed them there for the negotiations--maybe an engagement or "ward trading" (think Theon Greyjoy in ASOIAF) was planned to occur.

[Luankachu]

I would say he was possessed shortly before the death of Sumeragi so what I think happened is as follows. Sumeragi gets a message from Nohr that they wish to have a peace meeting, Sumeragi thinking of it as a way to see an old friend goes. He takes his children with him so that maybe the two royal families can start forming a bond as well. Unfortunately for him, Garon is already possessed and he doesnt realize that this is a trap from Anankos to kill him and capture Corrin.

That is what I think happened, but if that isnt the case then the only other explanation is that Sumeragi was a dumbass.

I don't think he was possessed before Sumeragi's death. Elise was born after Azura's kidnapping, which happened after Corrin's kidnapping. If I'm remembering correctly, Mikoto tried to negotiate with Garon before kidnapping Azura, and that was a last resort. Negotiations usually take a lot of time. Unless Elise is Slime!Garon's daughter instead of the real Garon's, It's likely he was possessed after Sumeragi's death.

To be fair, Sumeragi and Corrin were said to have similar personalities. Considering how we all know that Corrin is a dumbass, it's easy to believe that Sumeragi was a dumbass as well.

[IceBrand]

I don't think he was possessed before Sumeragi's death. Elise was born after Azura's kidnapping, which happened after Corrin's kidnapping. If I'm remembering correctly, Mikoto tried to negotiate with Garon before kidnapping Azura, and that was a last resort. Negotiations usually take a lot of time. Unless Elise is Slime!Garon's daughter instead of the real Garon's, It's likely he was possessed after Sumeragi's death.

To be fair, Sumeragi and Corrin were said to have similar personalities. Considering how we all know that Corrin is a dumbass, it's easy to believe that Sumeragi was a dumbass as well.

But what about trusting in the good will of others that Corrin preaches about?

[Abvora]

I don't think he was possessed before Sumeragi's death. Elise was born after Azura's kidnapping, which happened after Corrin's kidnapping. If I'm remembering correctly, Mikoto tried to negotiate with Garon before kidnapping Azura, and that was a last resort. Negotiations usually take a lot of time. Unless Elise is Slime!Garon's daughter instead of the real Garon's, It's likely he was possessed after Sumeragi's death.

To be fair, Sumeragi and Corrin were said to have similar personalities. Considering how we all know that Corrin is a dumbass, it's easy to believe that Sumeragi was a dumbass as well.

It could have been that the real Garon fathered Elise, but was killed and replaced early in her mom's pregnancy. That would have allowed several months for Slime!Garon to kidnap Corrin, Mikoto to attempt to negotiate, and Azura to be kidnapped before Elise's birth.

I can't think of a reason for the real Garon to invite war with another nation--especially if the peace treaty was supposed to get his country resources, which would make throwing it away dumb--but I do know that Slime!Garon was serving Anankos, and Anankos wanted the countries to war. Assassinating one leader would have done the trick had Mikoto not raised the barrier.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Abvora

[Tolvir]

It could have been that the real Garon fathered Elise, but was killed and replaced early in her mom's pregnancy. That would have allowed several months for Slime!Garon to kidnap Corrin, Mikoto to attempt to negotiate, and Azura to be kidnapped before Elise's birth.

I can't think of a reason for the real Garon to invite war with another nation--especially if the peace treaty was supposed to get his country resources, which would make throwing it away dumb--but I do know that Slime!Garon was serving Anankos, and Anankos wanted the countries to war. Assassinating one leader would have done the trick had Mikoto not raised the barrier.

This pretty much. Xander talks about how the real Garon would of never invaded another country needlessly, and put innocent lives at risk for no reason. I would imagine that killing the other countries leader would be an act of war, so I think Garon wouldnt commit that act if what Xander says is real. Corrin, Leo, and Elise are years apart. I would place the ages at Corrin 18-19, Leo 16-17, Elise 14-15. Roughly 1-2 years apart from each other. It gives enough time for Corrin to be about 4-5, Leo to already be born, and Elise to be on the way. Either that or Elise is already born and too young to remember anything. Which is possible through the ages of 1-3.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Tolvir

[Sentacotus]

One of the things I think help explain this is that Nohr and Hoshido before this event actually had good relations. To the point that even Garon and Sumeragi were friends. Based off of the way Xander talks about Garon before being possessed, he sounds like a good person. A benevolent king, good father, and possibly a good friend. I would say he was possessed shortly before the death of Sumeragi so what I think happened is as follows. Sumeragi gets a message from Nohr that they wish to have a peace meeting, Sumeragi thinking of it as a way to see an old friend goes. He takes his children with him so that maybe the two royal families can start forming a bond as well. Unfortunately for him, Garon is already possessed and he doesnt realize that this is a trap from Anankos to kill him and capture Corrin.

That is what I think happened, but if that isnt the case then the only other explanation is that Sumeragi was a dumbass.

That's interesting because the game seems to love to build up how long the two nations have hated each other and all.

[Nytefahr]

Forgot to rewatch that cutscene. I thought he didn't because why wouldn't Garon take Raijinto back with him, since he is taking Corrin anyway?

Edit: I just rewatched the cutscene. I didn't notice lightning in his Katana (I have bad eyesight, so I might be wrong. And even if there was lightning in it, wouldn't he be able to deflect some arrows with the lightning?). I personally think that sword might instead be the Hagakure or a Sunrise Katana.

Well I doubt it's a Sunrise Katana, because his evade is straight terrible in that cutscene

[Thor Odinson]

Given Fates RNG maybe he got hit by a bunch of consecutive 1%s

[Sentacotus]

Given Fates RNG maybe he got hit by a bunch of consecutive 1%s

Sadly...I'd believe that. Or maybe he's Arthur's illegitimate father with a terrible luck stat. The plot thickens.

Edited April 14, 2016 by LordTaco42

[HuntressW1zard]

On 4/12/2016 at 5:15 PM, Luankachu said:

Accidentally posted on that other thread. Will copy-paste what I said there.

Some of this stuff is only said in Revelations

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Corrin already knew how to wield a sword, so I doubt they were defenseless, and if I'm remembering correctly, Ryoma and Kaze were there as well. Also, considering how they were supposed to be peace talks, maybe he wanted Corrin to befriend Garon's own children for diplomatic reasons? Sumeragi was also said to have a similar personality to Corrin in some supports, so being naïve and making stupid decisions is nothing out of the ordinary. Hell, Sumeragi didn't even bring the Raijinto and the Yatonokami with him for that meeting. But this is just my headcanon. The game doesn't exactly confirm anything.

 

King Sumeragi did bring the Raijinto. I looked into the scene time after time and I saw lightning coming from the sword. AND King Garon didn't bring HIS children, he only wanted to harm the offsprings of Sumeragi and he could only Corrin and looking at how young they were, he tried to seduce them to become a strong Nohrian Dragon-Transforming Royal Soldier, but that didn't work out.