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CooledEvergreen

Is it Just Me, or is Kana kinda Mediocre?

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+Mag doesn't change anything for Kana except his mods, that are not that important anyway. It will only change the Avatar's second child's growths rates.

Bases, young lad, bases. Children's bases are increased by how high a stat is on the parent and by having the parent be higher level than the child at the moment of recruitment. By choosing +mag and marrying a magic mother/father you can increase Kana's base magic by 2 or 3 which can matter quite a bit from the get go.

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Bases, young lad, bases. Children's bases are increased by how high a stat is on the parent and by having the parent be higher level than the child at the moment of recruitment. By choosing +mag and marrying a magic mother/father you can increase Kana's base magic by 2 or 3 which can matter quite a bit from the get go.

if both parents have lvled enough, then all stats should get +2 or so anyways, even with a different Boon.

however, I haven't done the math (I've only done base stat calcs once or twice when parents are a number of lvls into Tier 2: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66037)so what I say might not be accurate if parents aren't a couple of lvls above recruited child's lvl.

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if both parents have lvled enough, then all stats should get +2 or so anyways, even with a different Boon.

however, I haven't done the math (I've only done base stat calcs once or twice when parents are a number of lvls into Tier 2: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66037)so what I say might not be accurate if parents aren't a couple of lvls above recruited child's lvl.

I wasn't doing that math, I literally tested it myself with the aid of save editors.

cMPivRc.png

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I wasn't doing that math, I literally tested it myself with the aid of save editors.

cMPivRc.png

ah, nice. my latter assumption turned out correct

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That doesn't make such a big difference IMO. +2 points can make a difference, but the way you get them is important too.

For your Sophie, she'd need her Parents to be 10 level higher (20/10) to get +1 Str and Spd. I guess the extra strength is probably from Silas and the extra Spd is from Mozu. But both has very decent Skl and that doesn't change Sophie's Skl because it's already high. The second picture is interesting though. She gets +3 Str (Silas) and Skl (both), 2 Spd and 1 Lck (Mozu), but her parents are at level 20/20, which corresponds usually to Endgame. CQ chapter 23 corresponds rather to level 20/10 (my units were level 20/14 or something like that at that moment). If you apply something similar to Kana, unless you grind, you'd probably use an Offspring Seal so his/her growths are important. And then if you want a high Mag, you'll need to marry Rhajat, Ophelia, Elise, etc who have sh*tty Def growths so you can't tank with Dragonstones or you need to marry Leo or Odin who have average Mag. So +Mag won't make a big difference in the long-term.

It's a bit confused though, I hope you'll understand my point...

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That doesn't make such a big difference IMO. +2 points can make a difference, but the way you get them is important too.

For your Sophie, she'd need her Parents to be 10 level higher (20/10) to get +1 Str and Spd. I guess the extra strength is probably from Silas and the extra Spd is from Mozu. But both has very decent Skl and that doesn't change Sophie's Skl because it's already high. The second picture is interesting though. She gets +3 Str (Silas) and Skl (both), 2 Spd and 1 Lck (Mozu), but her parents are at level 20/20, which corresponds usually to Endgame. CQ chapter 23 corresponds rather to level 20/10 (my units were level 20/14 or something like that at that moment). If you apply something similar to Kana, unless you grind, you'd probably use an Offspring Seal so his/her growths are important. And then if you want a high Mag, you'll need to marry Rhajat, Ophelia, Elise, etc who have sh*tty Def growths so you can't tank with Dragonstones or you need to marry Leo or Odin who have average Mag. So +Mag won't make a big difference in the long-term.

It's a bit confused though, I hope you'll understand my point...

Actually it makes quite a big difference on a unit that kind of sucks. Look at that Sophie for instance and compare the left one to the farthest on the right. Same level but we get +3 strength, + 2 defense, and + 3 skill as well as + 2 speed. I'd argue that any of those individually wouldn't be that much of a difference, but for starting out with all of them versus none? That's pretty significant. Right Sophie is more likely to double, and when she doesn't she just flat out does more damage per hit. She's also less likely to die on a critical hit on the account that she has higher durability (and 1 lck for what it's worth). She can also take a hit slightly better on the physical side. Imagine that on a Kana though. The base speed could be so low that (s)he's actually in range of realistically being doubled, and since the stats from Kana are so low in general, it makes it harder to catch up, and since the character doesn't have good growths, we have to rely on base stats more. Mods don't matter for caps, but those base stats certainly do matter. Especially on a unit that already is pretty mediocre. I've never used Kana to the end because (s)he isn't good at all. Scrubby bases while everyone else either has his/her stats but better.

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I kind of agree with Brand_Of_The_Exalt. Of course extra points can matter, but if you literally have to grind your parents to pretty much endgame level to get them, then what's the point? Just grab the kid and grind them instead.

I see SalShich10N's point about Corrin's boon/bane affecting Kana, though. Increasing the base stats via help from the boon without having to do the extra leveling is worth it.

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I kind of agree with Brand_Of_The_Exalt. Of course extra points can matter, but if you literally have to grind your parents to pretty much endgame level to get them, then what's the point? Just grab the kid and grind them instead.

I see SalShich10N's point about Corrin's boon/bane affecting Kana, though. Increasing the base stats via help from the boon without having to do the extra leveling is worth it.

But it's not really grinding the parents that much so much as using them and the combination of bases you get from the leveling and mods. Child/Offspring Seals pretty much make it to where you don't have to grind the parents for the kid to reach a decent level (which was the biggest bust of Awakening's parent child system is that the parents needed to be as high in level as possible to make the base stats higher at level 10), and the reason that I say the bases matter a lot ... Try something like say... Elise x Ryoma in Revelations with no grind. I guarantee that your Shiro will be garbage. He starts out with -4 defense + 1 strength with 27.5% growth naturally (42.5% as a spear fighter) so he's destined to be this decidedly ineffective frontliner and a shaky magic user. Compare that to say... Oboro Shiro that starts with + 3 strength and no defense penalty and leaves him with 45% strength growth naturally (so 60% as a spear fighter), and you can see that Shiro is destined to at least hit like a mack truck. And that's before you even take into account of what the levels of the parents are and the bonuses they give. And I can guarantee that Elise in a nongrind situation is NOT giving him a defense boost.

This same sort of things applies to Kana as well.

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That doesn't make such a big difference IMO. +2 points can make a difference, but the way you get them is important too.

For your Sophie, she'd need her Parents to be 10 level higher (20/10) to get +1 Str and Spd. I guess the extra strength is probably from Silas and the extra Spd is from Mozu. But both has very decent Skl and that doesn't change Sophie's Skl because it's already high. The second picture is interesting though. She gets +3 Str (Silas) and Skl (both), 2 Spd and 1 Lck (Mozu), but her parents are at level 20/20, which corresponds usually to Endgame. CQ chapter 23 corresponds rather to level 20/10 (my units were level 20/14 or something like that at that moment). If you apply something similar to Kana, unless you grind, you'd probably use an Offspring Seal so his/her growths are important. And then if you want a high Mag, you'll need to marry Rhajat, Ophelia, Elise, etc who have sh*tty Def growths so you can't tank with Dragonstones or you need to marry Leo or Odin who have average Mag. So +Mag won't make a big difference in the long-term.

It's a bit confused though, I hope you'll understand my point...

I did wild changes to he parents level on purpose, mostly to accentuate the fact that what determines increased bases in children was level rather than high amounts in stats themselves. The reason why I began to test this is because in my Lunatic Conquest run Sophie had at base 19 Strength and 19 Speed when I recruited her before chapter 19, and was level 2 after Child Seal. I was wondering why the wild change because Mozu was rather average (considering Aptitude) and Silas was below his averages in a few stats and just average in the others. Then I noticed that both Silas and Mozu were level 4, so I began to suspect that might have been the case.

Another thing I tested a while ago was how much growth difference affected children long run, and by far it's one of the least important. The difference between, say Selena and Elise in defense only amounts to 2 points by level 20/10 and that's using the child seal for growth based level ups. The bases that get passed down are far more important. Also, in case that you ever wondered and didn't know, Aptitude doesn't affect auto-level ups before you use the child seal, only afterwards.

For all of these, I forced the parents all to have 1 in ever stat to make sure no base stats were passed down (I realized Silas was passing 1 HP to Sophie because his revelations base HP is bonkers This is why some Sophie have 31 HP and others 30). Growths themselves ended up changing very little by themselves, unless you mixed magical and physical parents, and it's nothing the RNG can't bless you or screw you over with. Most mothers in the game actually have very crap defense growths overall. Only Rinkah and Selena pass down considerable increases in growth.

IsAFA4f.png

Edited by SalShich10N

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. . .so all I've learned from this is that it's best to pick up an Aptitude kid ASAP. IMO the base differences aren't large enough to warrant that much grinding, since tonics/food/statues/rallies can more than make up the difference.

EDIT: WHY SF WHY. Ahem. . .any opinion I have from Kana comes from innate Wyrmslayer weakness/personal skill being tied to one class. IMO stats aren't a huge thing unless you're doing PvP/drafting/some other crazy optimized run that requires certain benchmarks. Thus, Kana can fill the role as Dragontank if Corrin is busy being competent somewhere else.

Edited by eggclipse

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What's actually ironic is that female Kana, when comparison to male Kana, is a bit statistically better since the female characters you can marry with the Avatar to have better growth rates than the male counterpart. Another advantage with female Kana is that you can marry to one of the second generation Females without having risk making one of the 1st generation males as a bachelor (IIRC, if you have a male Avatar, the only way you can get all the children characters is if you either marry a female character where their only S option is to the Avatar (i.e. Anna, Flora, etc.) or marry to one of the Second generation female characters).

An Effie!Mitama!fKana will have incredibly broken caps and growth rates.

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An Effie!Mitama!fKana will have incredibly broken caps and growth rates.

Charlotte!Velouria!Kana has better HP, Strength, and Speed (at the cost of Def), and is an incredible beast. Literally. My Kana is level 20/10, and already has 30 Str after recruiting her with a level 4 Offspring Seal. She tears through anything and even manages to survive a Wyrmslayer/Beastslayer hit or two if she doesn't outright dodge.

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Kana is both mediocre in stats and personality. Stat wise, she isn't that great unless you play the breeding game, which I personally am not a fan of doing. Personality wise, she has nothing. She has the cute little kid thing going, but that makes her seem way too immature and young ( feels like I am using a 6 year old) and never does anything interesting outside of being "adorable". I never use the character.

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Just recruited him and I was pissed, because he was supposed to inherit Death Blow (should work with Killing Edge and Mjölnir) but his father learned Axefaire in the middle of the chapter. But I guess that nothing of value is lost.

What the others said. Kana inherits no Yato, no Boon, not the second class of Corrin and his base growths are average if not worse than Corrins (even with Benny as a father he has only 40% def growth, which is average but not high). For example, you can give Corrin a boon in magic and he will have high magic and his other stats are average (his defence is solid). You can't do that with Kana, because parents with high magic will hurt his other stats, especially defense.

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Kana is both mediocre in stats and personality. Stat wise, she isn't that great unless you play the breeding game, which I personally am not a fan of doing. Personality wise, she has nothing. She has the cute little kid thing going, but that makes her seem way too immature and young ( feels like I am using a 6 year old) and never does anything interesting outside of being "adorable". I never use the character.

Actually i think Kana is still a WAY better character than Corrin is. I actually am enjoying playing the second round of DLC because of her story.

Game-wise, my Male Kana setup in Birthright was pretty easy: as Silas as father, which had almost the same stats of female Corrin, i made her a Tank with the Sun ability, that let you be safe in 1wp range scenarios. I have it as Hoshido Noble lv30 now, and with RNG help, he is able to go toe-to-toe with her mother.

My suggestion, if you play online battles, is to have Corrin marry a physical unit capable of learning Renewal. Then have Kana with the easy but effective Ganglari/Renewal combo, which works really well in many scenarios.

For Conquest, my Female Kana setup was a little more complex. Married Corrin and Flora i had Kana with very balanced stats.

Personally speaking, i still find Kana a reliable character and in my Revelations Walkthough, i will try to spice up Kana again.

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Just recruited him and I was pissed, because he was supposed to inherit Death Blow (should work with Killing Edge and Mjölnir) but his father learned Axefaire in the middle of the chapter. But I guess that nothing of value is lost.

What the others said. Kana inherits no Yato, no Boon, not the second class of Corrin and his base growths are average if not worse than Corrins (even with Benny as a father he has only 40% def growth, which is average but not high). For example, you can give Corrin a boon in magic and he will have high magic and his other stats are average (his defence is solid). You can't do that with Kana, because parents with high magic will hurt his other stats, especially defense.

Kana does inherit Avatar's secondary class. unless I'm misinterpretting what you said

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