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This Story (FE 4 SPOILERS)

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Guest Dreamyboi
15 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm not following the "Awakening likely had poor writing because of the 3DS" argument. 

The 3DS is waaaaaay more powerful than the SNES, where Fire Emlem writing reached its peak for many people, and it's much closer to the GameCube than anything else, where people who don't think SNES was peak FE writing will probably point to instead. Hell, the DS was more powerful than the SNES, and DS carts could hold 10x the information that SNES carts could. So I don't know how the platform one generation after the DS would be a problem. 

I think Awakening's writing was poor because... Well, I don't think very good writers worked on the game. They clearly had some neat ideas sprinkled in, but even when they were being derivative of Jugdral, Archanaea, and Valentia, they just simply didn't know how to turn that stuff into compelling stories. Most parts of Awakening could be described as "X, but worse". The one original thing it does, time travel, is pretty divisive, and even people on the side of "It was a good idea" seem to think that the whole idea of time travel was still left a lot to be desired. 

Maybe it was too many cooks in the kitchen, or maybe they weren't worried about writing satisfying storylines, but I think Fates makes it clear that the fault lies with the current writing staff at FE, and not the platform Fates and Awakening were on. 

It could also be that they were just preoccupied with every other aspect of the game. S support stuff, DLC, the new gameplay engine, etc.

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8 minutes ago, Dreamyboi said:

It could also be that they were just preoccupied with every other aspect of the game. S support stuff, DLC, the new gameplay engine, etc.

Might just be me looking at what I want to see, but I actually find the DLC writing is a grade above the main game. The DLC content is all the stuff they would have made after the game was released and itself was released in intervals. So it likely got a much more direct, focused and less stressful development cycle.

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's EXACTLY it. Awakening was believed and intended to be the last game of the franchise. It was a game that was focused purely on references. To be fanservice to the players. These were meant to be a reminder to everyone of just how much the writers themselves loved the series. The world map from Sacred Stones and Gaiden. Marth having his descendants as Lucina, Chrom, etc. Robin being a reference to the Jugdral Series of Juius, with Grima/Loptyr, Grimleal/Lopto Sect. What they wanted to convey, I think the writers did remarkably well, and no one should ever fault them for it.

However, I think the reason that the Valm saga felt like filler, despite how it probably wasn't, is more on the issue on how it's too much tell, and little show. Someone on reddit gave some examples. Here's the thread:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Put it behind a spoiler tag to save space.

Had there been a bit more expansion, we could have gotten a much better depth about Walhart's intentions, and how it could actually tie into the plot. Hell, Walhart's attempts could also in some way be something that is done also from what happened with Chrom's father. 

As for Lucina and her companions, yet, that's the issue. Because Lucina is 100% canon, and the others are optional, it messes with things. So due to that, they made the other children perform really nothing and seems to be screwing off. Gerome I could understand, as he makes it clear he has no intention of saving the world, but just freeing the wyverns, but Laurent came back three years earlier, and did nothing. And it doesn't help that some of the Awakening children supports act like they've never gone through hell together or there being any kind of bond. Some kind of sign that shows they have known each other for a while now. 

And yes, the story of Genealogy can very well tie to the other characters. Hell, we have Lex's and Tailtiu's fathers being the bad guys here, and Azelle's brother is Arvis, and Arvis clearly has some motives as well. We also have the case of the Mitsuki Oosawa manga that REALLY plays the characters to be far more sympathetic. These things are only possible because of the relations the characters in Sigurd's party have with the bad guys.

That's interesting about Valm, and I agree with it, but my main issue about that entire arc in Awakening was that it felt more like "HEY LOOK WE'RE TRAVELING TO VALENTIA, SEE PLAYERS, WE HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN ABOUT GAIDEN" rather than "This is something that is integral to the main plot of the story." Because it just doesn't feel that way. There's a throwaway line about how Walhart was trying to build an army to destroy Grima, but it's told by a separate character, after Walhart is killed, in the middle of a longer conversation that has nothing to do with Walhart. That's not how you justify that arc. It felt like they just wanted an excuse to go to Valentia, but rename everything because why not, and it further spread thin a game and writing team that seemed already painfully stretched. 

I also agree with you about the children supports in Awakening, so much of them seem like "hey I sorta know you" but not any real connection about how they've been fighting a desperate, losing war together with a terrifying demon dragon looming over their land while their parents have all died in battle before them. I just don't get that sense. I like their characters on a surface level, but they don't have the weight and gravity that they should have considering where they came from. Gerome, okay, he doesn't care about saving the future. But so many of the other kids even say they came back WITH Lucina. Lucina isn't the only one who came back with a mission to save her future - ostensibly, she brought along most of the other kids with her, too, for that same purpose. Yet they just end up fooling around in Paralogues, then you recruit them, they have a weepy reunion with their mother, and that's it. So much potential was lost here, and it kills me to think about what could have (and should have) been with those characters. Lucina alone feels like she came from a ruined and lost future and is at the very edge of hope, close to giving up but trying one last desperate play. The other kids feel like they're just fun friends who never experienced a ruined future in their lives. Morgan's the sole exception here, since they don't remember their past (and I personally love Morgan's character), but they also could have done more with them (and Robin - the amnesia angle for both of them essentially goes nowhere except, in Robin's case, or a single kind of weak plot twist). 

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

I'm not following the "Awakening likely had poor writing because of the 3DS" argument. 

The 3DS is waaaaaay more powerful than the SNES, where Fire Emlem writing reached its peak for many people, and it's much closer to the GameCube than anything else, where people who don't think SNES was peak FE writing will probably point to instead. Hell, the DS was more powerful than the SNES, and DS carts could hold 10x the information that SNES carts could. So I don't know how the platform one generation after the DS would be a problem. 

I think Awakening's writing was poor because... Well, I don't think very good writers worked on the game. They clearly had some neat ideas sprinkled in, but even when they were being derivative of Jugdral, Archanaea, and Valentia, they just simply didn't know how to turn that stuff into compelling stories. Most parts of Awakening could be described as "X, but worse". The one original thing it does, time travel, is pretty divisive, and even people on the side of "It was a good idea" seem to think that the whole idea of time travel was still left a lot to be desired. 

Maybe it was too many cooks in the kitchen, or maybe they weren't worried about writing satisfying storylines, but I think Fates makes it clear that the fault lies with the current writing staff at FE, and not the platform Fates and Awakening were on. 

I'm always loathe to say "XYZ part of the development team was bad" because even really good artists and developers can make some crappy stuff now and then. But I do think they were definitely stretched thin - were there too many writers? Was there too much push-and-pull from the rest of the development team? Were they stretched thin with the bajillions of supports and necessity to make almost everyone able to romance with each other? How close were the writers of the text and the people who conceived the story (because sometimes the director says "here's the outline of the story, now write it, also I'll be telling you whenever you need to change anything, but I'm not actually writing it")? That's why I've said I'd love to know what actually went on behind the scenes with Awakening. Tons of potential, and overall, for me at least, a very enjoyable game, but it could have, and should have, been much more. Heck, who knows, maybe the pressure of "this is the LAST Fire Emblem game" that they were going off of at the time got to them. It's clear they went all-in with nearly every idea they could think of, and honestly it's amazing the game is as good as it is with so many competing ideas and references and stuff. 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Half of their work load also involving figuring out how to write a believable romance between Libra and Panne and other such stuff probably didn't help matters.

LOL

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Another thing to think about, is what kind of budget did Awakening have. I mean, the series was in danger of ending around the time it came out. That makes me think they would not have that big of a budget to work with, since who would invest heavily into what was a dying series at the time?

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5 hours ago, DemolisherBPB said:

It's not like the people of Agustria don't support him as a choice for King. So far that one village outright states it. He could have simply remained neutral and taken the throne at the people wish.

I get the whys, it's just how it's presented comes across as really poor. He just comes off as someone who gives zero cares about the people around him because he was told not to do something. He let his son grow up without a farther, because he was told "You can't hurt the royal family".

But anyway, I'm too stubborn to change my mind quickly, and It's rude of me to just insult things, Sorry to be a nuisance, 

If Eltoshan chooses to kill Chagall and becomes the king himself, then nothing will stop Sigurd to lead an army to revenge for the dead king, Eltoshan will die anyway, now as a real traitor.

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1 hour ago, RedRob said:

Another thing to think about, is what kind of budget did Awakening have. I mean, the series was in danger of ending around the time it came out. That makes me think they would not have that big of a budget to work with, since who would invest heavily into what was a dying series at the time?

I actually expect it had a rather large budget as far as 3DS games go.

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47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I actually expect it had a rather large budget as far as 3DS games go.

It's tough to tell between Awakening and Fates which had the higher budget. 

Fates clearly had more stuff and they hired a big time, fancy pants writer, which can't be cheap, but it was largely built off of stuff already present in Awakening. They're probably similar, and probably multiple times higher than SoV.

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8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It's tough to tell between Awakening and Fates which had the higher budget. 

Fates clearly had more stuff and they hired a big time, fancy pants writer, which can't be cheap, but it was largely built off of stuff already present in Awakening. They're probably similar, and probably multiple times higher than SoV.

I think Fates had the bigger budget because of how Awakening selling so much let them make a lot more money, so this would give way to a larger budget. The fact they made 3 paths kind of says it.

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The story is PURE Kaga. Kaga was very influenced by mythology and King Arthur, and a lot of his games' stories reflected that. The current writing team doesn't seem to draw as much inspiration from those stories.

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