Jump to content
Guest UFVKNP

Cross Knight help?

Recommended Posts

Guest UFVKNP

Eldigan's Cross Knights in chapter 3 are driving me nuts. This is a second playthrough after I botched the first one, and I still have no idea how I managed to get past it the first time. I've got a screenshot of the current situation here (sorry for the crappy bordering, I did it in Paint). https://imgur.com/a/WfOlFvU

Some relevant information:

Finn is promoted, he's the Duke Knight on the bottom.
Lex is also promoted, but no one else is other than Quan.
Azel can't take hits for crap. He can take maybe one or two Javelins (HP is 37/40), and murder on the counterattack (Thunder tome equipped), but anything past that and he's down. For this reason, I'm sending him up past the thicket to avoid damage (with Erinys, because I'm trying to hook them up).
Beowulf is just there to hook up with Lachesis, not really for any fighting.
Holyn takes 10 damage from a Javelin and has something like a ~25-30% dodge rate (HP is 42/47) and the Cross Knights gang up on him really fast if he's in their range, so I'm just getting him out of dodge. Same deal with Ayra (who's Lex's lover, ftr).
Dew and Sylvia each die from two Javelins and they both have a ~30% dodge rate from them.
Quan has a Javelin and Lex has a Hand Axe, but if I equip them, neither of them get targeted, all the Cross Knights go for other characters.
Arden is guarding the castle, and can take something like four or five Javelins, with a ~35% dodge rate. I'm not too worried about him.
I don't have the Knight Band.

Level and equipment on relevant characters:

Sigurd is level 20 with a Silver Sword and Steel Lance.
Quan is level 15 with a Javelin and a Silver Lance.
Lex is level 24 with a Brave Axe and a Hand Axe.
Finn is level 21 with a Brave Lance and the Speed Ring.
Lewyn is level 14 with Elwind and the Pursuit Band.
Ethlin is level 16 with Heal (9 magic for a 19 HP heal), Return, and the Light Brand.
Azel is level 18 with Thunder, Elfire, the Magic Ring, and the Paragon Band.
Erinys is level 14 with the Slim Lance, Slim Sword, Shield Ring, and Bolt Sword (which I'm passing down to Fee).
Ayra is level 18 with the Brave Sword and the Skill Ring.
Holyn is level 17 with a Silver Sword.
Jamke is level 17 with the Killer Bow.

No one else is really doing much fighting.

At the moment, my basic strategy is as follows:

There's a little alcove directly to the right of the ledge just above the castle's point. I place Lex in the space directly north of that alcove (two spaces down from his current position) and put Finn, Quan, and Sigurd diagonally up and to the right from that position. This leaves a single empty space of plains between Sigurd and the forest near the cliff. I send Lachesis as far down as she can go (which places her diagonally down and to the right of Lex). Azel, Dew, Erinys, and Holyn go north to retreat past the thicket, and everyone else books it past the wall that Lex, Finn, Quan, and Sigurd create. Ayra moves closer toward the castle to start picking off the Cross Knights that assault it (depending on what I do on my turn, there's typically two on their first turn, and four or five by their second, but Arden dodges enough hits and enough of them attack with their swords instead of their Javelins that he doesn't really have to worry about damage). That's the first turn.

When the Cross Knights move, they mostly target Quan (48% dodge rate), with one usually going for Holyn, two heading towards Arden and the castle, and one attacking Sigurd. They exclusively attack with Javelins. Anyone who can't reach Quan goes for Lex or Finn instead. Eldigan doesn't get to attack on this turn, but he gets close enough to trigger Sigurd's dialogue with him.

On the second turn, there's one Cross Knight occupying the space directly north of Lex, so I move Lewyn to take him out (who has an 83% dodge rate with the Javelins, assuming no leadership boosts). From there, Finn defeats one, Lex defeats one, and Sigurd defeats one, but I'm not really lucky enough for Quan to proc Adept, so he inflicts 30 damage on a fourth. After their attacks, they all move back to their original position. Ethlin heals Quan, who's usually taken ~20-25 damage from the Javelins by now, and gets out of their range. If necessary, Aideen heals as well, and I position her diagonally from Ethlin so Sylvia can dance for both of them and give them a second turn, which I use to give Ethlin a second heal and get Aideen out of danger. I move Midir, Alec, and Noish further south out of range (they don't get too far on the first turn thanks to the forest).

After this point, a second Cross Knight usually goes up to attack Holyn, a few more go for Arden, and everyone else continues to gang up on Quan - including Eldigan, who kills him, and forces my reset.

That's about it, pretty much. This is by far one of the most difficult parts of the game for me and I think I might've pushed myself into a corner this time. I really don't want to restart the chapter, but I might have to considering I can't stand to lose any units. I'm planning on resetting the chapter because there doesn't seem to be any way out of this, but I wanted some extra opinions before I do that. Thanks in advance.

If you need any more information, just ask. I've got a save state on the turn I created that screenshot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lachesis can talk to Eldigan and it causes him to leave in a cutscene. You still have to fight the rest of the cross knights but since Eldigan is the biggest threat it helps a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of what is going on is that while Eldigan is leading the cross knights they have "hard ai" (note if you hate yourself on any 2nd playthrough you can turn this ai type on for all enemies in the options menu), which is much more consistent in its actions and tends to gang up on one unit. One thing I will point out is that as soon as you finish this section you will get the Valkyrie staff, which can be used to revive units that die, so if you can limit yourself to one casualty you can recover from that easily (any additional revivals requires you to get 30000 gold onto Claude). The reason I bring this up is if you can put Lachesis into a position to remove Eldigan, even if she dies it is probably worth it. The loss of leadership star, his near instakill sword, and possibly the "hard ai" (I am not entirely certain when it turns off) significantly weakens the cross knights. If you want something more specific, I could try and work out a strategy if you want to send me the save (I think it is the .srm file)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot that I have an account here, heh. I'm OP, in case you couldn't tell.

1 hour ago, Zkitty8 said:

Lachesis can talk to Eldigan and it causes him to leave in a cutscene. You still have to fight the rest of the cross knights but since Eldigan is the biggest threat it helps a lot.

Yeah, I knew the bit about Eldie leaving with Lachesis, that's pretty much the only reason she's there in the first place.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Part of what is going on is that while Eldigan is leading the cross knights they have "hard ai" (note if you hate yourself on any 2nd playthrough you can turn this ai type on for all enemies in the options menu), which is much more consistent in its actions and tends to gang up on one unit. One thing I will point out is that as soon as you finish this section you will get the Valkyrie staff, which can be used to revive units that die, so if you can limit yourself to one casualty you can recover from that easily (any additional revivals requires you to get 30000 gold onto Claude). The reason I bring this up is if you can put Lachesis into a position to remove Eldigan, even if she dies it is probably worth it. The loss of leadership star, his near instakill sword, and possibly the "hard ai" (I am not entirely certain when it turns off) significantly weakens the cross knights. If you want something more specific, I could try and work out a strategy if you want to send me the save (I think it is the .srm file)

I'd forgotten about the Valkyrie Staff actually. That'll do me some good, thanks. Since you told me that, I think I should be able to handle it myself - I can do what I did above, sacrifice Quan (since he doesn't die until Eldie attacks him anyway), and get Lachesis to talk to Eldie, and get Claude to revive him. If I do that, though, will I miss my chance to get the Gae Bolg? It's not that big of a deal considering they leave at the end of this chapter anyway, but I'd like to know, if you have the answer. If I still have trouble, I'll let you know, but I think I can handle the rest by myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Part of what is going on is that while Eldigan is leading the cross knights they have "hard ai" (note if you hate yourself on any 2nd playthrough you can turn this ai type on for all enemies in the options menu), which is much more consistent in its actions and tends to gang up on one unit.

Actually, I'd say the hard AI is easier to deal with because they're very predictable.  That means they're more malleable to manipulation.

Anyway, usually what I would do is get every combatant (even the weaker combatants) into positions right in front of where the enemy will be and have Lachesis far enough up that she can run right over to Eldigan.  You should always bring Lachesis up to him as soon as you can, because those leadership stars he has makes fighting his forces so much more difficult.  Also keep in mind that the leadership stars only affect units up to three spaces away (so most enemies at the front won't benefit from Eldigan's leadership stars) and that Sylvia can refresh 4 units at a time - this means you can have Lachesis rush up closer to Eldigan, have one combatant strike at an enemy, then have two cavaliers attack enemies as well and position everyone around one space within Sylvia's movement range.  For example, movement like this:

MF2Y5u9.png

Dark blue would be Sigurd, yellow is Finn, light blue is Lex, and green is Lachesis.  The X's represent who they attack with their first move, and the circles represent where they end their turn - you can optionally have Lachesis attack the east-most enemy if she's strong enough.  Put Sylvia where that pink squiggle is after everyone has done what they will (Sylvia should have enough movement thanks to roads to get there) and have her dance.  Then boom, you have another three practically guaranteed kills, and Lachesis should have just enough movement to speak to Eldigan after that final guy in the row is killed (assuming the leadership bonuses of Eldigan don't screw you over with him).

Of course, this is just an example of what you can do.  But what you should be focusing on isn't so much running away from the enemy or playing defensively, but rather killing as many of them as humanly possible and getting Eldigan out of the picture.  Most of your strong allies should be able to handle a mere five cross knights attacking them, which is the number you'll likely reduce them to if you use Sylvia's refresh on at least three of the strong allied combatants.

6 minutes ago, UFVKNP said:

If I do that, though, will I miss my chance to get the Gae Bolg?

As long as he's around for Ethlyn to talk to him close to the end of the chapter, I think it should be fine.  Though do take note that Claude needs to be the home castle to revive Quan, and thus Quan will spawn within the castle.  This may make things a little bit more tedious.  And you'll also be one step closer to losing one of the four A ranks if you do this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that's actually really helpful. Still, I'd argue that the hard AI is tougher, if only because they don't really gang up on my units when it's off.

Either way, thanks! I'll give this a shot. If it doesn't work, I'll try for my defensive strategy again.

And I'm not worried about getting Claude back to the home castle. Ethlin has Return and Aideen has Warp, it's as simple as using them.

Update: Success! I didn't even lose anyone - Sylvia almost bit it because a couple of them still targeted her, but she dodged the second hit and my unit placement stopped any more from attacking her. Thanks a lot! Papillon's gonna be a cinch next to that nightmare.

Edited by UFVKNP
situation update

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

As long as he's around for Ethlyn to talk to him close to the end of the chapter, I think it should be fine.  Though do take note that Claude needs to be the home castle to revive Quan, and thus Quan will spawn within the castle.  This may make things a little bit more tedious.  And you'll also be one step closer to losing one of the four A ranks if you do this.

Eh, no, you can't revive Cuan, Ethlin or Finn, once they leave they'll never return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Guest UFVKNP said:

After this point, a second Cross Knight usually goes up to attack Holyn, a few more go for Arden, and everyone else continues to gang up on Quan - including Eldigan, who kills him, and forces my reset.

That's about it, pretty much. This is by far one of the most difficult parts of the game for me and I think I might've pushed myself into a corner this time. I really don't want to restart the chapter, but I might have to considering I can't stand to lose any units. I'm planning on resetting the chapter because there doesn't seem to be any way out of this, but I wanted some extra opinions before I do that. Thanks in advance.

If you need any more information, just ask. I've got a save state on the turn I created that screenshot.

perhaps you may want to reconsider your tactics and try a different strategy, if things don't work out well in the end.

in all my previous game sessions i always fought near the top of the castle, by blocking the main path with the strongest units i had in terms of defence( Sigurd, Lex and/or Quan ) while putting other people with high speed like Fin or Aira in the trees near the castle in order to bait some of the enemy over there.

allow me to show you:

c3.jpg

 

basicly i did it the spartan way: pile up the enemy in one point, and take them down little by little. it's a battle of resistance.

[1] and [2] can be either Sigurd, Lex or Quan( or anyone else with high defence, i'd say at least around 18~20 ), [3] and [4] can be baits with high speed( Aira and Fin most likely ).

by doing that, i always managed to mitigate part of the Cross Knights attacks to the trees once the main wave had reached the path on the north side, and none of them ever tried to go down the road on the east because it was too far for them and i always kept them busy.

you can also leave other units like healers, archers and mages behind the castle, since the enemy won't try to get there anyway, and start using them when you feel confident enough( any other horseback unit with ranged weapons helps really a lot in this battle if you kite the enemy properly ).

 

the rest is up to you. teleport/return staffs/rings also help with organizing the defence formation earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, hanhnn said:

Eh, no, you can't revive Cuan, Ethlin or Finn, once they leave they'll never return.

Oh yeah, that's right, I remember now...  If any one of them dies (except maybe Finn, I don't remember though), they all leave to tend to the wounds of whoever was "killed" back in Lenster.

17 hours ago, UFVKNP said:

Update: Success! I didn't even lose anyone - Sylvia almost bit it because a couple of them still targeted her, but she dodged the second hit and my unit placement stopped any more from attacking her. Thanks a lot! Papillon's gonna be a cinch next to that nightmare.

44 minutes ago, UFVKNP said:

I appreciate the help still, but I already beat them using Ertrick's strategy. Thanks anyway.

Glad my advice helped.  You must realize now just how useful dancers can be in difficult moments.  Sometimes the usefulness of their utility outweighs the risks they have to take, though I will say that risk can be lessened if they're given the leg and knight rings - basically allowing them to move around like cavaliers and do a "hit and run" where they dance and retreat within the same turn.  Of course you didn't have the leg ring at that point... though you soon will if you haven't already.

Congrats, you've just beaten one of the most difficult parts in the game.  The rest of the chapter should be relatively easy by comparison, though just to be safe make a separate hard save.  That way if anything else troubles you to the point where you "soft-lock" the auto-save, you don't have to do all of this again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...