Ideas for better explaining 3H's 'true' villains(Spoilers)

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

Before I actually start: I think that 3H's story for the most part is actually pretty solid. It has it's problems, sure, but it's feasible enough to be a good FE story, in my opinion. Keep in mind that I'm more a character person and don't really care about FE stories as long as the characters are interesting at least, so being actually into a FE story is nice. Another thing is... I'm not really a writer. However, I feel that even when it comes to something like this that I can do better. Again, the story is fine. However, the people that stirred up the events that led to the story are just... you guys will see when I explain. One more thing, hearing your suggestions would be nice, because I know that there are a lot of peeps who share this opinion. Without further ado, let's start.

 

The reason for writing this:

Spoiler

 

It's simple really: In my opinion, TWSITD is the worst set of villains/antagonists to grace Fire Emblem in terms of writing and overall character and I feel that even someone like me, who barely has any writing experience, can at least set them up better. For one thing, what their plan is and their reasoning is virtually nonexistent. Throughout the story, there isn't any kind of concrete reasoning for what they want to do, other than they hate humans... for some reason that is still not explained. We know they basically want to see the world burn, but why? I would provide Ashnard as a good example of how to do this, but I haven't played enough of PoR as well as been exposed to him as much, so I'll just use his lesser, more theatrical version from Awakening, Gangrel. While we didn't know what exactly what he was going to do with the Fire Emblem, we do know at least that he wants it and to eliminate Yilesse because Chrom's father indiscriminately killed many of his people due to their possible connection with the Grimeal. In 3H, on the other hand, we hear close to nothing about what created this spiteful attitude that the Agathans have; not even  the huge ass lore dump Rhea gives us provides anything about them, where they came from, or why they were so aggressive towards Sothis that they would help some random brigand kill her and even make a weapon from her spine for said brigand to use and he and his buds with similar weapons can wreak more havoc.

 

Now, this wouldn't be that much of a problem, if not for the main reason I hate these bastards: they all have the same. Fucking. Personally. And it's not intimidating, threatening, or even entertaining. It mind numbing and agitating, and when every goddamn character has it, it just implies that TWSITD are butthurt twats. Basically, they have an inferiority complex, whenever Byleth comes, they will ALWAYS mention him as 'that meddling person,' as if he/she didn't kill enough of their best troops making him/her a way bigger threat to be considered just 'meddling,' and the biggest thing that really triggers me, when they lose, and it never fails, they always whine about losing like they weren't seriously outmatched. Like, Solon, Byleth just cut though the fucking sky to beat your ass, be a little bit in shock about dying to THAT rather than make your final words make you look like a sore bitch. Narcian does this shtick way better because he actually has personally and when he always loses he behaves in such a way that it's more 'Ha Ha look at that dork,' rather than, 'These are the people we are supposed to find threatening? WTF?' The only character that kinda breaks this mold is Kronya, who's actually excited to be the one to kill Byleth, but that gets ruined when she barrel rolls back to the TWSITD special by saying 'But how? How could I lose, to a lowly creature like you?!' Face. Palm. This isn't the kind of consistency I want with the big bad. I want to hate them because they're serious threats and must be stopped, not because I want them to get over themselves and stop with all the near death Johns. Like, what they did was the most brutal thing to ever grace FE, but they act so, dare I say 'Cartoon Villain like,' that you wonder how these babies even managed to get it done without some form of complaining.

 

Before actually getting to what I would do, there's one more thing I want to address: Arundel. In short: Least. Tolerable. FE Villain. Of the new gen. Ever. He's a terrible parental figure and human being, a fucking egotistical douche who makes everything around him worse because fuck it, and even though he's a human that has allied with TWSITD, maybe he could be an Agathan, but that would actually be kinda dumb since this twist happened 3 times already, he also shares the same fucking personally trait and problems that the Agathans have, not to mention, and I don't mean any offense to the VA since he did a good job, his voice just reeks of pretentiousness. Add that up and you get a character that pisses me off every time I see him. I will willingly rush through a map without caring about side objectives just to get Byleth to kill this asshole, even though I won't feel any real satisfaction because he dies in the same manner like anything TWSITD related. So yeah, would happily take a dragon whose whole existence is to be fucked by the Lord in order to make the implication that their useless offspring is half-Manakete over this fuckface.

 

 

What I have to Work With:

Spoiler

There's quite a few ways to about fixing these Johning assholes, because they actually have decent potential. First of all, they hate humans. There are so many ways you could go about justifying this reasoning, but I'm gonna choose a subject that's already in the game: Racism. Yes, racism is heavily featured in 3H with Duscur, but it's for a different reason that I will get to. Next, their plans. I'm choosing to have them want to repopulate in the continents and enslave humans like the foul beasts that they are in the TWSITD's eyes. Finally, and most importantly, I'm gonna focus on minimizing that 'I'm dying, but fuck you' attitude that ruins the overall threat factor that TWSITD as well as their potential to be the most dark villains in FE just for their actions alone. The only character that should really have that kind of attitude is Solon, because his design and overall actions fits this attitude better than someone gleefully excited to kill like Kronya, and someone whose calculating, powerful, and knowing of Byleth's abilities like Thales. With that being said, lets being.

 

Origin and Goals:

Spoiler

 

In order to get a good understanding of why the Agathans feel the way they do, there should be some possible reasons for such a large amount of individuals to all share the same the same feeling. First thing's first, where they come from. The Agathans could be neighboring people from the same land Sothis and her children came from. When Sothis decides to finally make her presence known to humans and takes her children with her, Zaharas, the name of the possible creator of the forbidden spell of darkness as well as someone who the Agathans possibly looked up to as their ruler, decided to do the same, even though during that time, he and the Agathans didn't know how to make themselves look human. When the time came, both decided to settle in different areas, with Sothis and company going to Zanado, and Zaharas and company going to what would be known as Shamhala.

 

While Sothis was recognized as a goddess by the humans of Zanado, Zaharas was recognized as a demon. The highly advanced technology that he provided for peace was considered to be witchcraft. Also, the Agathans' out of the norm appearance made them stand out in the worst way possible. This would lead to the Agathans dealing with many hardships, including some being burned at the stake or worse. This overwhelming prejudice that his people faced caused Zaharas to develop a never ending hatred for humans, which would eventually lead to him creating a spell that he uses to banish them all into darkness out of spite.

 

When what happened spread to Zanado, Sothis goes to Shamhala to punish Zaharas. Sothis manages to seemingly kill him and force the other Agathans out of Shamhala, as well as free the humans that were trapped by what would be known as the forbidden spell of darkness. The victory, however, was short lived, as it turns out Nemesis, who was a Shamhala bandit, finds Zaharas and decided to save him, in order to gain great power for him and his brigade, the 10 Elites. In spite of still having hatred for humans, Zaharas decides to go with it, but changes his appearance, as well as changes his name to Thales.

 

Afterwards, when Sothis was forced to sleep by using too much power against Zaharas, Nemesis, who was given a large portion of Thales' remaining strength, kills Sothis and brings her body to Thales. As a reward, Thales used the last of his strength to make her bones and heart into the Sword of the Creator, tells Nemesis the secret to how to make such weapons so that the 10 elites can have one to use, and asked Nemesis to kill the rest of Sothis's children as well as anyone who worshipped her. "Kill those wretched fakers, Nemesis, and don't hesitate to kill the beasts that follow them either," would be his exact words.

 

While Serios is fighting Nemesis, Thales goes around the world gathering the lost Agathans, and decides to make Shamhala the permanent home and base of operation for TWSITD, a name given to the Agathans by Sothis due to the forbidden spell of darkness, now known as the forbidden spell of Zaharas. "These lands, even after her death, are still tainted with the stench of that witch, Sothis, thanks to the likes of Serios," Thales would say, "As beings who have experienced such cruelty by the same people that also blindly followed Sothis, we know that we will not be able to live life normally as long as they're around. These people, who worshipped a monster hiding as their own as a deity. These people, who also have the gall to attack beings like us just because we're different. These mindless beasts know not of wonders that is this world, so we must teach them in the most painful way possible. Now, join me, the reborn ruler of the Agathans, Thales, my fellow people! Let us all hide in the darkness, and make those creatures' lives a living nightmare! Let us be the ones to dictate their lives in anyway we please! And let us wipe away all of their hopes by eliminating the Fell Star Sothis' influence once and for all, before we finally take control!"

 

 

 

 

Characters: Solon:

Spoiler

 

Solon is the oldest member of the Agathan masterminds, his age possibly somewhere around the 200s. In his prime, he took a large interest in the Crests. During that time, Thales wasn't interested with how the Crests could be used against their enemy, the followers of Serios. Although Thales had great knowledge of Serios and Sothis' Crests, he really cared not for them and would rather use the resources of Shamhala to wreak havoc on their enemy. When Solon brought up the plan, Thales was understandably skeptical, but Solon was able to convince him by mentioning how it would be more impactful to the humans to have the power that they worship so much be their downfall.

 

This would lead to Solon starting the Crest blood experiments. Many children died due to the constant changes to their blood as well as the pain of having it forcefully extracted scarring children that would survive even though they wouldn't have a Crest. It wasn't unit 100 years later when Solon finally managed to successfully give a Crestless child a Crest: The Crest of Gloucester. After that success, Solon would want to go even deeper with his experiments, wanting to give someone who already has a Crest another Crest, using the Crest of Gloucester as a base since it was the first Crest given to a Crestless child. Many years later, after countless experiments, Lysithea becomes the first child to bear two Crests at the cost of her lifespan. After this success, Solon finally figured out the perfect means of blood transfusion to give people Crests, and tells the secret to Arundel, a human allied with TWSITD, in order to make Edelgard a twin Crest bearing bringer of destruction.

 

Even though he knew that his formula for Crest transfering was perfect, that wasn't enough to satisfy Solon. He ultimately wanted more blood from other Crests bearers to experiment on, so when Tomas left Garreg Mach, Solon kills him, takes his form, and he gives Kronya, a Agathan girl raised by him and was forced to help with his cruel experiments, the means to enroll in Garreg Mach so she can assist him with getting Crest bearing students. Kronya, who is masquerading as a girl named Monica, actually enjoys her school life and refuses to help Solon at one point. This leads to Solon capturing Kronya without the faculty knowing and forcing her to kill students, even young children, for his experiments, and even goes so far as to slowly and painfully kill one person while she was tied to a chair with her head taped up so that she couldn't look away.

 

When the incident with Flayn happened, Solon gave Kronya her original order of helping him with this experiments by rejoining Garreg Mach again as Monica. Kronya's mind was warped to obey Solon no matter what at that point, so she goes with his plan. In Remire, Solon's overall success leads to him being cocky enough to show his true face in front of Byleth and his/her students without repercussion. At the tower ruins, Solon actually caused the students to go berserk and become demonic beasts, but enlists Kronya to kill anyone who tries to stop the beasts. She would eventually kill Jeralt without knowing about Byleth's ability, and when Byleth rewinds time, Thales saves her for his own well being as well as his people's well being.

 

After Kronya loses to Byleth and gets chased down by him/her, Solon, who was watching in secret, comes up to the altar that was possibly made in secret by Zaharas in order to conjure the forbidden spell. Afterwards, he removes an artificial Crest stone, which he used to possibly give Kronya the strength of a demonic beast and more, from Kronya's stomach in the most painful way possible and uses the power from her stone to unless the forbidden spell of Zaharas, forcing both Kronya and Byleth to be engulfed in the same never ending darkness that the former citizens of Shamhala was forced into. When Byleth breaks free from the dark void, Solon, who was confident that the vessel of the Fell Star was dealt with, yet disappointed that the Sword of the Creator won't be able to be used for more sinister experiments, loses his confidence and want Byleth dead as soon as possible. When defeated, Solon still mocks his killers for being mindless followers of Sothis.

 

Being the brains behind most of the Crest related things TWSITD have done like demonic beasts and Crest blood experiments, Solon's main thing is that he's very confident in his genius mind. He thinks highly of his master, but lowly of everyone else because they are not up to his level of intelligence. His accomplishments show that he's not only very patient when it comes to his goals, but very obsessive at a dangerous level even after he has succeeded. Solon is a very cruel being, even more so than Thales. He rebels in slowly and painfully hurting and/or killing his experiment victims. His overall cruelty leads to him brushing off any emotion from others, which allowed him to 'kill' Kronya, the girl that he raised up, as well as a person of his own race, while she screamed in pain without any kind of remorse, and gleefully watched as normal villages hacked each other to pieces. Sometimes his overconfidence leads him to doing very risky things without any consequence, like revealing his identity during Remire when he could've stayed disguised. Solon has one major weakness, he never admits to his faults and miscalculations. This is what leads to his long life finally ending at the hands of Byleth.

 

 

Characters: Kronya:

Spoiler

 

Kronya, while not originally considered to be a strong candidate to be an Agathan mastermind, paved her way to being one of the masterminds' best fighters thanks to the help of Solon. She is the youngest of the masterminds, her age ranging somewhere between 20-22. Her slightly more human appearance comes from her father, who was actually a crest bearing human who had a unique crest. The mother, who is the woman impersonating Cornelia, kills the man without hesitation and left Solon with her child, Kronya, because she didn't inherit the man's powerful crest.

 

As a child, Kronya was very wondrous. She actually didn't really care for the teachings of the Agathans, in spite of sharing half of the race's genes. Because of her human blood and lack of understanding of the Agathan way, she would often get into fights with other kids as well as awfully treated by adults, always being called a failure by them. Solon would also ridicule her, badly, but she never hated him due to him being the only family she had.

 

When she became a teenager, Solon was starting to invest more in Crest blood experiments. In his mind, Solon finally found a use for Kronya. She was given the job of 'subduing' human children for their blood. One day, she discovers that one of the children died, and didn't understand why. Solon tells her not to care, but knows she will anyway because she has the blood of a worthless beast inside her. While she didn't talk back after the statement, she remembers it with all of her heart and comes to the conclusion that the Agathans, including her own guardian, will never accept her, so maybe humans might accept her more since she's part human.

 

Even though Kronya badly wanted to leave Solon's care, she honestly didn't have a plan, so she was forced to wait unit he potentially lets her go. She would, however, actually get the chance to finally meet other humans, as Solon decides to give her the funds needed to attend Garreg Mach, but gave her two tasks while she was there: To disguise herself, and to provide him with more students with Crests. Hearing that her routine wouldn't change was discouraging at first, especially when she considered that she'd possibly be indirectly responsible for some students dying, but Kronya still decided to go with it, because she honestly feared Solon.

 

That fear would eventually slowly go away during her time in Garreg Mach, where she made friends and learned about various styles of combat, with the sword being her favorite to learn. Before she can graduate, Solon requested that Kronya kill as many royals as possible so he can harvest as much royal blood as he can for his experiments. Kronya bluntly refused the idea of killing her friends, beliving that they would accept her after she removed the persona Monica. Solon brutally mocks Kronya, and decides to drag her out of Garreg Mach to teach her a lesson on loyalty. The year that followed would be painful for Kronya, as she had to do what she didn't want to do in order to get things like food and water: kill. She would have to quickly or slowly kill humans of any age for their blood to potentially kill another human when Solon's experiment failed, or to have their lifespan drastically reduced if the experiment succeeded. She couldn't retaliate against Solon because in her mind, he was far more stronger than her and could kill her with no problem. Solon started to slowly corrupt Kronya by forcing her to smile or laugh while hurting and/or killing the very type of people that she befriended, and even bounding her to a chair with her head taped so that she can't look away while he slowly and painfully killed someone for their blood.

 

After Kronya's mind was completely warped from all of the tortuous tasks given to her, Solon gave her a 'gift', which was an artificial Crest stone used to create demonic beasts. The pain of having this stone implanted in her abdomen forced Kronya to forget all of her positive memories; all she remembers is that Solon is her master, and she must do what he says, including kill, which she must relish in doing. This 'rehabilitation' of Solon's led to Kronya becoming one of the most formidable fighters of TWSITD, as well as the most respected.

 

When Flayn gets kidnapped, Kronya, now blindly following Solon with all of her original personally virtually gone, is placed in the underground passage as Monica to be found and continue helping Solon with his experiments. Due to her mind being damaged by Solon, she forgets how she originally acted when she first joined the monastery, and puts on an entirely different persona. At the tower ruins, when Solon starts performing his experiment, she is instructed to kill anyone who tries to interfere with it, which leads to her killing Jeralt. After being saved by Thales, he states that he was only doing it to keep the secret of their bodies safe, and that Solon still needs her.

 

When Kronya seemingly lures Byleth and company into a forest with the altar of Zaharas in the intent of finally killing off the person that has been causing her master so much trouble, she gets overwhelmed by the small army, and is forced to flee. When she gets cornered, she pulls out her dagger, hesitantly, with the idea that she can still kill Byleth. "Y-You're strong, but I, I can still kill you!" she would say. When Solon appears, she seems relieved, asking Solon if he's here to help her. Instead, Solon pierces Kronya stomach and removes the artificial crest stone, painfully, while telling her that her main use for this day. After shattering the stone, Kronya, who's now immobilized due to the pain, gets a small piece of her old memory back and asks Byleth to help her before they're both engulfed in the darkness. While Byleth returns due to gaining new power, Kronya is forced to stay in the void, slowly awaiting death while her old memories of her friends, her studies, and how much a monster Solon actually was, steadily came back to her.

 

Because of Solon's cruel methods of teaching, Kronya came to be a bloodthirsty killer that only cares about serving Solon. If not commanded by Thales or especially Solon, Kronya is very out of control, usually killing on impulse alone. This usually meant that she had to be kept on a leash by Solon to prevent her from killing her allies. Her urge to kill, while makes her a great assassin, also leads to her underestimating her opponents. Even then, she will try her hardest to kill, even if her opponent is above her level. As a child, while not super nice, Kronya had a lot of self-esteem, being open minded and very happy to try and make a friend, in spite of not ever succeeding. This would somewhat carry over to her time in the academy before Solon dragged her out of it. She was a little nervous at the start of the first year, but she turned out to be a very enthusiastic individual who loved to sword train and was always looking for opponents. After Solon's 'rehabilitation', Kronya returned to the academy acting as peppy and girly as possible, which contradicted the fierce, raring to train girl that she used to be.

 

 

Characters: Cornelia's Doppelganger

Not done

 

Characters: Arundel

Not done

 

Characters: Thales

Not done

Edited October 21, 2019 by SageHarpuiaJDJ

[Erosword]

Spoiler

Isn't Thales Arundel? Also, the reason why they seem to have a hate boner for the god is cause they were the the pre-Noah folks.  They used the knowledge to start wars and then shit happened.  The result was a long war with Rhea fighting their leader who was just a brigand.  The people who exist now are those who weren't pro-pale skin.

 

[DefyingFates]

Also, we do know why TWSITD hate the Church of Seiros, at least in the present day:

Spoiler

Seiros/ Sothis is the reason they're forced to live underground, as Thales says in Shambhala.

Granted we still don't know the full story or how exactly their feud started, so if anything reading this has just made me more convinced that the DLC will be a prequel or delve into their past some other way. But don't get me wrong, your take on everyone is quite detailed, I can tell you spent a lot of time on them!

Edited October 21, 2019 by DefyingFates

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

21 hours ago, Erosword said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Isn't Thales Arundel? Also, the reason why they seem to have a hate boner for the god is cause they were the the pre-Noah folks.  They used the knowledge to start wars and then shit happened.  The result was a long war with Rhea fighting their leader who was just a brigand.  The people who exist now are those who weren't pro-pale skin.

 

Spoiler

Arundel could be Thales, yes, but it's not straight up confirmed in-game. If it was, It would be redundant as there are already 3 characters who have done that, and the Agathans already have enough going against them as it is. I don't recall it being mentioned that Nemesis was their leader. From what I remember in the GD route, Nemesis was just a common brigand who just so happened to work with the Agathans and was given the means to kill Sothis and acquire the Crest of Flames. I also don't recall anything being said about them being there before Sothis, like at all. I'm not denying it being possible, but don't remember anything like that being mentioned story wise.

 

19 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Also, we do know why TWSITD hate the Church of Seiros, at least in the present day:

  Reveal hidden contents

Seiros/ Sothis is the reason they're forced to live underground, as Thales says in Shambhala.

Granted we still don't know the full story or how exactly their feud started, so if anything reading this has just made me more convinced that the DLC will be a prequel or delve into their past some other way. But don't get me wrong, your take on everyone is quite detailed, I can tell you spent a lot of time on them!

Thanks! I will admit that the thing with Thales slipped my mind because everything else about that chapter visually and sound wise made me not pay attention as much as I should have.

[Erosword]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:03 AM, SageHarpuiaJDJ said:

  Hide contents

Arundel could be Thales, yes, but it's not straight up confirmed in-game. If it was, It would be redundant as there are already 3 characters who have done that, and the Agathans already have enough going against them as it is. I don't recall it being mentioned that Nemesis was their leader. From what I remember in the GD route, Nemesis was just a common brigand who just so happened to work with the Agathans and was given the means to kill Sothis and acquire the Crest of Flames. I also don't recall anything being said about them being there before Sothis, like at all. I'm not denying it being possible, but don't remember anything like that being mentioned story wise.

 

Thanks! I will admit that the thing with Thales slipped my mind because everything else about that chapter visually and sound wise made me not pay attention as much as I should have.

It can be seen when you play the game it is the same person. Besides they look the same just like Tomas and Solon.  Nemesis isn't really their leader and more like their pawn.  That is my fault.  Forgot he was more like a puppet leader.

[Ivan Tridelan]

Arundel is outright stated by Hubert to be "The one who commanded the likes of Kronya and Solon. Cornelia, whom we killed at Arianrhod, was also one of his."

Seeing as Solon and Kronya both are clearly subservient to Thales and Solon states when you kill him that Thales will see their mission completed, the likelihood that Arundel is NOT Thales is extremely low. Granted, Hubert and Edelgard don't know everything (not even close) about TWSITD but still...

For those who want to know source, that's from Hubert's monastery conversation before going to Tailtean Plains in CF.