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Just now, Glennstavos said:

I already suggested this so I'm curious why I'm off base. What makes you think the Church would ask the Empire and Kingdom to start a war if Claude took the sword of the creator? Why not do what they did with Miklan and send the Knights? If they only sent the knights, it would not be this inevitable world war you're suggesting all three lords were going to create.

Miklan stole it, and the Knights of Seiros get on the case to take it back, and no doubt kill Miklan for stealing what is considered a holy weapon.

Now Claude wants to use the Sword and demand to the xenophobic continent to open the borders and make peace with Almyrans. You think that is NOT going to instigate a war? Keep in mind that in the very first Almyran invasion, the Empire helped the Alliance ward off Almyrans. And all three nations pitched in to create Fodlan's Locket. And the Officer's Academy was built literally for the sake of raising people to defend invasions.

And the unknown factor being that Claude is basically using Sothis's remains as a bargaining chip, do you think that Rhea was not going to get pissed at that? If the Church goes to war, it's still a war in the end. If Faerghus joins, even more of an issue. 

Regardless, war is going to happen if Claude tried to use the Sword to force his demands.

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21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Miklan stole it, and the Knights of Seiros get on the case to take it back, and no doubt kill Miklan for stealing what is considered a holy weapon.

Now Claude wants to use the Sword and demand to the xenophobic continent to open the borders and make peace with Almyrans. You think that is NOT going to instigate a war?

Claude does not want to do this. Not pre-chapter 5 Claude when the sword is still in the tomb and still a mystery. That's the only Claude I imagine would make this brash power play. And there's also the mystery of who could wield the fabled weapon. Another X factor you haven't addressed is how the Church does know who can wield the sword. Wouldn't they then recognize he poses a false threat and deal with him using the knights as usual?

Edited by Glennstavos

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3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Claude does not want to do this. Not pre-chapter 5 Claude when the sword is still in the tomb and still a mystery. That's the only Claude I imagine would make this brash power play. And there's also the mystery of who could wield the fabled weapon. Another X factor you haven't addressed is how the Church does know who can wield the sword. Wouldn't they then recognize he poses a false threat and deal with him using the knights as usual?

Again, I literally quoted him back in Chapter 4 that he definitely came for the Sword of he Creator, but lamented that he likely can't wield it. 

Hence why in VW, he admitted to wanting to use Byleth. And in CF, he told Byleth that Byleth should have sided with him. He didn't exactly give up on Byleth. 

I feel like you kind of skipped the quotes I presented.

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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Again, I literally quoted him back in Chapter 4 that he definitely came for the Sword of he Creator, but lamented that he likely can't wield it. 

So his backup plan is to declare war without the Sword and without somebody who can help him?

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Just now, Glennstavos said:

So his backup plan is to declare war without the Sword and without somebody who can help him?

Again, where are you getting this idea that he will declare war? No, seriously, where? I never once said that he would declare war. EVen with the Sword, it wasn't to declare war. It was strictly to have Fodlan meet his demands, but his demands were going to cause a war. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Again, where are you getting this idea that he will declare war? No, seriously, where? I never once said that he would declare war. EVen with the Sword, it wasn't to declare war. It was strictly to have Fodlan meet his demands, but his demands were going to cause a war. 

Why would he make these demands of Fodlan if he had none of the power he came to the monastery for?

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Just now, Glennstavos said:

Why would he make these demands of Fodlan if he had none of the power he came to the monastery for?

Okay, I feel we are literally going around in circles here. 

He sought the Sword of the Creator. He wanted to use its power. Even if he can't use it, he would try to get Byleth to his side to get him to help. Claude wasn't going to give up if there are setbacks. It's why during the war in every route, he incites conflicts and tries to keep the Alliance together as much as possible, clinging to power in the end but only relinquishing it when there's no way around it.

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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Okay, I feel we are literally going around in circles here. 

 

That's my line. During the war in every route he fights back against the Empire because they are an invading force. I don't see how that equates to him eventually having incited the same war had Edelgard's war never happened. You haven't proven as much because it's unprovable. 

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38 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I already suggested this so I'm curious why I'm off base. What makes you think the Church would ask the Empire and Kingdom to start a war if Claude took the sword of the creator? Why not do what they did with Miklan and send the Knights? If they only sent the knights, it would not be this inevitable world war you're suggesting all three lords were going to create.

IMO it's a really different situation. Miklan is a disinherited outcast, and the "rightful" wielder of the Relic has asked the Church to intervene. Claude, meanwhile, is still a prominent Lord. And if he's the head of House Riegan at this point, "sending the knights" against him is basically a declaration of war.

 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's actually where I was going with Claude's overall intentions with the Sword. Be a nuclear deterrent where they listen to his demands and no one has to suffer from it. But what I was saying is that trying to do that was going to piss everyone off, particularly Rhea, which would cause a war to ignite as a result.

I generally agree, with the caveat that I think Claude would be more clever about all of this. Convince Rhea that tearing down the border with Almyra is in everyone's best interests, and suddenly he's not in the wrong to use the Sword of the Creator as a representation of power (like Byleth in non-CF routes). Claude doesn't have to like Rhea to recognize her potential as a powerful ally, at least for a time.

Having said that, convincing a thousand-year-old-religious-stasis-dragon that "change is good" may be too tall an order. And if Smite comes to Shove, I could see Claude shoving.

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2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

That's my line. During the war in every route he fights back against the Empire because they are an invading force. I don't see how that equates to him eventually having incited the same war had Edelgard's war never happened. You haven't proven as much because it's unprovable. 

He's not fighting against the Empire because they are invading. In every route, Claude is literally trying to cling to power by keeping the Alliance united. Even more proven in Crimson Flower, where he literally incites infighting to prevent any of the Imperial factions of the Alliance from joining the Empire. He schemes to make use of others to get the better of things. Edelgard starting a war was just something of an opportunity for him. 

And where are you getting the idea that it's the "same war" exactly? I just said war. Just war. Not same war as Edelgard. Any effort that would result in Claude trying to get Almyrans in would have resulted in a lot of conflict to emerge. Fodlan is overall racist to the extreme. The need for power, such as the Sword of the Creator, was so that Claude basically was something he wanted so that no one would actually jump into war. Given the legends and power of the Sword of the Creator, Claude literally hoped to use it as a way to make people accept it.

But as I said, trying to use it would incite conflict. 

8 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Having said that, convincing a thousand-year-old-religious-stasis-dragon that "change is good" may be too tall an order. And if Smite comes to Shove, I could see Claude shoving.

Given that Rhea needed a 5-year timeout before she realized her errors, I would say yes, definitely hard. 

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Wow im really happy someone took the time to write this! very well written and easy to understand for those that arent aware of the in depth aspects of the game. i agree with almost everything. Ive always had that view point. 

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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

He's not fighting against the Empire because they are invading. In every route, Claude is literally trying to cling to power by keeping the Alliance united. Even more proven in Crimson Flower, where he literally incites infighting to prevent any of the Imperial factions of the Alliance from joining the Empire. He schemes to make use of others to get the better of things. Edelgard starting a war was just something of an opportunity for him. 

Do you think "infighting" means the leaders of the alliance are literally punching each other out? Claude is instigating a deadlock, or a filibuster. Anything to prevent action. Because only half the Alliance wants to support the Empire and he doesn't want the institution to split up over such a potentially violent disagreement of allegiances. He's not engaging in war, he's preventing it. At least until the situation changes, like Byleth suddenly returning.

I'll ask one final time. When Claude sees he can neither get the Sword nor get Byleth's help, how does he cause this inevitable war?

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14 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Do you think "infighting" means the leaders of the alliance are literally punching each other out? Claude is instigating a deadlock, or a filibuster. Anything to prevent action. Because only half the Alliance wants to support the Empire and he doesn't want the institution to split up over such a potentially violent disagreement of allegiances. He's not engaging in war, he's preventing it. At least until the situation changes, like Byleth suddenly returning.

I'll ask one final time. When Claude sees he can neither get the Sword nor get Byleth's help, how does he cause this inevitable war?

In CF, it's diplomatic. But in the other routes, it does get a lot more violent. However, Claude is trying to keep the Alliance united, as the Alliance being united means overall more power for him, being the overall leader. As he himself stated to Byleth, he wanted to unite the Alliance, and then all of Fodlan.

As for your question, there's no absolute surefire way of knowing. Would he bring Almyrans in like he did in CF? He mentions that he had plans in GD during Chapter 12 when facing Edelgard. 

However, the overall point is, Claude had full intention of wanting to unite all of Fodlan himself and be its leader. He admits to this, in two different routes. You don't unite the entire continent through peaceful negotiations. 

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

But in her case, even if she didn't have those ambitions, she would have been made to start the war regardless.

Edelgard says in CF that Thales purposely led Dimitri to hate the Empire via Duscur. If Thales could manipulate Dimitri without him even knowing it, he could do the same to Edelgard. If she hadn't already come to hate Crests on her own, she would have been led to that line of thinking. That's the sick genius of Slither: they're just as much manipulation masters as tech masters.

And while I admit this is headcanon, IMO Claude had just as good a chance of achieving his dream in CF (assuming you spare him,  of course) as in VW. Claude goes back to Almyra and takes his rightful place as king, still holding onto his ambition. He would absolutely be keeping tabs on what Adrestia is doing, and finds out about their war with Slither. He knows that he can trust, if not Edelgard, then at least Byleth, and decides helping them fight would be a great setup to an alliance between Fodlan and Almyra. He then proceeds to pull the same Big Damn Heroes moment he does in his paired ending with F!Byleth in VW. Edelgard is grateful enough to finally talk to him, and they hash out a formal alliance.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

However, the overall point is, Claude had full intention of wanting to unite all of Fodlan himself and be its leader. He admits to this, in two different routes. You don't unite the entire continent through peaceful negotiations. 

Claude's dream of a united fodlan is echoed, almost verbatim, by Dimitri in his B support with Byleth. He wants that same world. Is every noble with pretty dreams of a world without barriers of race and nobility a future terrorist hoping to rule the world? It's never that simple. 

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5 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Claude's dream of a united fodlan is echoed, almost verbatim, by Dimitri in his B support with Byleth. He wants that same world. Is every noble with pretty dreams of a world without barriers of race and nobility a future terrorist hoping to rule the world? It's never that simple. 

That isn't the same thing. Like, at all. Dimitri is someone that lacks ambition and thus is generally someone that makes statements in idealistic manner. But in regards to Claude, Claude is ambitious and wishes to attain his goals. Wanting to unite Fodlan is something that Claude needed to do since otherwise, he cannot actually break the borders. How exactly would Fodlan accept Almyrans if 2/3rd of the continent is not on board with it?

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4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Already mentioned how Edelgard got the throne. Solely because she had the backing of the slithers, led by Arundel. As Linhardt stated, it should not have been that easy to ascend to the throne. 

Also, for Dimitri to talk to Edelgard to plot out, he had to be willing to approach her. Which he himself admitted that he won't do that, due to how they have both changed and are too different now. That's also if Dimitri is even willing to believe that Edelgard would believe him that her uncle is the one behind the Tragedy.

There are two problems here. Both the bandit thing and the Tragedy of Duscur are things that were done in a strategic manner and through help from using other parties, where Edelgard used  petty bandits (whether it was to even kill Dimitri or Claude, or to actually just scare the teacher away, not sure), and the slithers use the corrupt nobles of Faerghus that disliked Lambert's "radical" policies. Dimitri is a one man revenge party that is straightforward to a fault. Which pretty much defeats any form of subtlety in regards to assassinations. 

I mean, Dimitri literally snapped and tried to just straight up kill Edelgard in the most unsubtle way possible in Chapter 12. And this is despite how he heard how the one responsible for Duscur was Thales, having listened in on the Flame Emperor state that, but Dimitri still insists that it was Edelgard's fault.

Dimitri really isn't someone that shows to be able to think in a roundabout way to avoid bloodshed. That is actually more Claude's shtick. 

Yeah and knowing Edelgard and Hubert, I'm pretty sure she could have come up with other avenues, so that's really diminishing her character to suggest it was the only path for her.

I agree, Dimitri ALONE wouldn't have had the foresight or knowledge to do this, but we're already talking in hypotheticals of what could happen, so it's not exactly unbelievable to think Dimitri would be willing to speak to her. He also admitted he should have talked to her long ago, and not waited for the war to gain so much traction and take so many lives before speaking to her. I'm pretty sure with Byleth helping him through, he could have approached Edelgard with his knowledge.

And you say those are problems, but that's exactly my point? They were done in a highly strategic manner which Dimitri alone could not achieve. That's why I said this hypothetical hinges on Dimitri speaking to someone else about it, who could then plan it. I agree Dimitri turns into a one-man revenge party, and isn't quite subtle on his own. But it's shown Byleth specifically brings out his softer side and that he does truly care about avoiding bloodshed at the end of the day. Even post-timeskip, post crazy Dimitri makes it a point to avoid bloodshed because he IS so straightforward.

To suggest he wouldn't chose the straightforward route of approaching Edelgard had he found out about Arundel first seems odd. If Edelgard spurned his advanced to talk to her/help then YES he would definitely start a war because he would just single-mindedly take down Arundel because that would be the next most straightforward path.

But because Dimitri is so straightforward, I just think he's the least likely of the 3 to have started a full-scale war. I'm not saying the chance isn't there. And there are definitely many avenues which could have led to him being the one to start a war. But I also think knowing Dimitri there's a lot of avenues he would have realistically attempted to take first to avoid such a thing. 

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11 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That isn't the same thing. Like, at all. Dimitri is someone that lacks ambition and thus is generally someone that makes statements in idealistic manner. But in regards to Claude, Claude is ambitious and wishes to attain his goals. Wanting to unite Fodlan is something that Claude needed to do since otherwise, he cannot actually break the borders. How exactly would Fodlan accept Almyrans if 2/3rd of the continent is not on board with it?

I can't speak for Claude but I imagine he could have become one of the most respected and agreeable world leaders before revealing he is half-Almyran which would shatter the Fodlan perception of that nation. One of the benefits of Garreg Mach is making those connections and meeting other future leaders who'd remember him as a swell guy. Honestly I'm not convinced Fodlan as a whole is militantly adverse to the country of Almyra. Nobody bats an eye at Cyril. Instead of Cyril complaining about being mistreated by Fodlan monks he complains too many people are trying to help him with his tasks. We see Hilda explain her perception of Almyrans to Cyril in their C support, but this is a woman from a house that had been at war with them for generations. I have no doubts that her House has some nasty things to say about their neighbors. Most other Houses in Fodlan wouldn't know or care about the Almyrans.

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7 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

I agree, Dimitri ALONE wouldn't have had the foresight or knowledge to do this, but we're already talking in hypotheticals of what could happen, so it's not exactly unbelievable to think Dimitri would be willing to speak to her. He also admitted he should have talked to her long ago, and not waited for the war to gain so much traction and take so many lives before speaking to her. I'm pretty sure with Byleth helping him through, he could have approached Edelgard with his knowledge.

I overall get what you're trying to say, here, but the hypothetical scenario here, though, is the case of keeping the characters more or less the exact same. Dimitri's character would need to undergo a bit of a strong change that he would have to not be as insane any longer. It took Rodrigue protecting him from someone that wanted to kill Dimitri out of revenge for DImitri to even start to finally open up. If he's willing to approach Edelgard, he's got to be willing to open up to her and trust her. Something that he was completely unwilling to do during Part 1 because of his own trauma. 

Hence why I presented the idea that Dimitri would have tried to kill Arundel in a straightforward manner, which would cause a war. It's just not likely that Dimitri would be able to keep it subtle.

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

I can't speak for Claude but I imagine he could have become one of the most respected and agreeable world leaders before revealing he is half-Almyran which would shatter the Fodlan perception of that nation. One of the benefits of Garreg Mach is making those connections and meeting other future leaders who'd remember him as a swell guy. Honestly I'm not convinced Fodlan as a whole is militantly adverse to the country of Almyra. Nobody bats an eye at Cyril. Instead of Cyril complaining about being mistreated by Fodlan monks he complains too many people are trying to help him with his tasks. We see Hilda explain her perception of Almyrans to Cyril in their C support, but this is a woman from a house that had been at war with them for generations. I have no doubts that her House has some nasty things to say about their neighbors. Most other Houses in Fodlan wouldn't know or care about the Almyrans.

Yeah, here's the issue. The entire premise of Claude hiding his Almyran lineage is that though a few choice people might accept him, that does not mean the majority of the continent will. Even if other leaders are warmed up to him, if the populace isn't, there will be uprisings, rebellions, etc. Keep in mind that nobles have turned against leaders in 3H, in regards to how Ionius had his nobles turn against him, and even Lambert's death was something planned by other nobles in Faerghus. Saying that simply other leaders liking Claude doesn't really mean much in the broader scope of things. 

And Claude's entire issue is that he DOESN'T trust others. By his own admission, he's the embodiment of distrust. Edelgard tries to learn about him, but he tells her more or less to give him full support for an objective he won't tell her to even learn a little bit about him. 

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, here's the issue. The entire premise of Claude hiding his Almyran lineage is that though a few choice people might accept him, that does not mean the majority of the continent will. Even if other leaders are warmed up to him, if the populace isn't, there will be uprisings, rebellions, etc. Keep in mind that nobles have turned against leaders in 3H, in regards to how Ionius had his nobles turn against him, and even Lambert's death was something planned by other nobles in Faerghus. Saying that simply other leaders liking Claude doesn't really mean much in the broader scope of things. 

And Claude's entire issue is that he DOESN'T trust others. By his own admission, he's the embodiment of distrust. Edelgard tries to learn about him, but he tells her more or less to give him full support for an objective he won't tell her to even learn a little bit about him. 

The assumption that change only occurs through war is a little pessimistic. Especially in a society as advanced as Fodlan. The Slitherers attained functional control over the Empire without so much as anybody noticing much less assenting. If they didn't have such a loose cannon puppet emperor they could have infiltrated all three nations before turning on the Church. I'm not saying Claude would or should cheat his way into a progressive future but the game sure does bend over backward to tell us he's a master schemer who's good at manipulating people like the other Alliance lords. And as to your second point, you really do not need to trust people in order to understand how to get in their good graces. Not trusting people is really just a by product of his outsider complex.

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Just now, Glennstavos said:

The assumption that change only occurs through war is a little pessimistic. Especially in a society as advanced as Fodlan. The Slitherers attained functional control over the Empire without so much as anybody noticing much less assenting. If they didn't have such a loose cannon puppet emperor they could have infiltrated all three nations before turning on the Church. I'm not saying Claude would or should cheat his way into a progressive future but the game sure does bend over backward to tell us he's a master schemer who's good at manipulating people like the other Alliance lords. And as to your second point, you really do not need to trust people in order to understand how to get in their good graces. Not trusting people is really just a by product of his outsider complex.

Did I strictly say that change only happens from war? No. 

However, understand that people only warmed up to Almyrans as they did in the game strictly because Claude capitalized on the war. It forced them to change. Every change that overall happened is through the context of war. 

Also, keep in mind that the slithers hadn't attained any high ranking in political power until they finally managed to get Arundel and helped Aegir with the Insurrection. That's the thing about the slithers. They cannot be the full cause of anything, and need to leech off of things that are already wrong with the world. The only reason they could perform the Tragedy of Duscur was because they used Patricia and the other corrupt nobles that didn't like Lambert. Ionius pissed off the other nobles because of his power centralization policy, which made the other nobles resist. People go about how they are the cause of literally everything, but they aren't the cause. 

Just as the slithers never made Faerghus commit the genocide of Duscur. That was all on Faerghus. 

This isn't even going with the fact that this is after literally over 1100 years after the slithers made use of Nemesis. So it took over 1100 to get any strong foothold in politics. Is that fast? Nope. 

Claude trying to get Fodlan to stop being racists would take a LONG time, given that Fodlan religiously don't welcome outsiders that much. Does not help when the Book of Seiros depicts that Fodlan was once the home of the goddess, and even how a "darkness" from the north tried to invade. And the fact that Dagda and Almyra also made invasions on Fodlan does not help. There's way too much entrenched history of bad blood that you literally cannot fix this in a single generation without some real conflict being stirred to force change to happen.

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Did I strictly say that change only happens from war? No. 

If you believed elsewise you'd agree then that Claude doesn't need to start a war just to achieve his dream. If there's even a chance to do it without bloodshed, he'd at least try those schemes out first. But if I'm lucky you'll repeat your opinions on the value of war

Quote

Claude trying to get Fodlan to stop being racists would take a LONG time, given that Fodlan religiously don't welcome outsiders that much. Does not help when the Book of Seiros depicts that Fodlan was once the home of the goddess, and even how a "darkness" from the north tried to invade. And the fact that Dagda and Almyra also made invasions on Fodlan does not help. There's way too much entrenched history of bad blood that you literally cannot fix this in a single generation without some real conflict being stirred to force change to happen.

whoops.

But really. If this history of bad blood is so entrenched how can Cyril, Dedue, Shamir, and Petra all hang out at this monastery as equals? It's almost like Rhea takes in these folks to show them there's more than just nationalities. Or, meta narratively, that the setting of the monastery is a broader analogue to Claude's dream he won't shut up about. And that an attack on the monastery is a symbolic attack on all of Fodlan's nationalities at once.

 

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1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

If you believed elsewise you'd agree then that Claude doesn't need to start a war just to achieve his dream. If there's even a chance to do it without bloodshed, he'd at least try those schemes out first. But if I'm lucky you'll repeat your opinions on the value of war

whoops.

But really. If this history of bad blood is so entrenched how can Cyril, Dedue, Shamir, and Petra all hang out at this monastery as equals? It's almost like Rhea takes in these folks to show them there's more than just nationalities. Or, meta narratively, that the setting of the monastery is a broader analogue to Claude's dream he won't shut up about. And that an attack on the monastery is a symbolic attack on all of Fodlan's nationalities at once.

As equals? 

Shamir is a mercenary. She's just someone that they pay and have her fight for them. Nothing beyond that. Hell, when Flayn was kidnapped and Byleth spoke to her, Shamir asked if she was under suspicion. It's quite obvious that even despite being a member of the church, she is not actually fully accepted as an equal.

Dedue was only ever in Garreg Mach because Dimitri recommended it, who is the crown prince. But hardly anyone even gave a real damn about the literal genocide that happened. Not to mention that a monk accused Dedue to being responsible of Flayn's kidnapping.

Petra is a political hostage. 

Cyril, of his own volition or not, is overall just a servant. Not to mention that even in his supports, people do mistreat him.

Claude is literally the one and ONLY foreigner that holds any political power, but he hides his lineage. For good reason. Not to mention, he's the only person that challenges the religion in private conversations, but also makes a point that they would be deemed heretics if anyone else heard. Cyril, Shamir, and such may not believe in the goddess and have their own faith, but they never challenge Fodlan's religion as Claude does. 

Also, no. Rhea doesn't actually try to stop Fodlan from being xenophobic. Lorenz even points out that making peace with foreigners goes against the Seiros tenets. 

For the record, Rhea had many more years to actually prevent racism from being so strong. But she didn't do anything. So long as the Church was not threatened overall, she would not do anything about it, and would focus on just trying to revive Sothis.

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21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

As equals? 

I never said prejudice doesn't exist. Heck I can't even say that about our world and don't expect to in my time. Just that the knights and school are willing to accept these outsiders if they're there at all. On an average day, you'd never notice there's something weird about these people hanging around. In my country, accepting all people into a school or into your national military regardless of race is a less than 100 year old conceit. Hence why I'm impressed with Fodlan's progressiveness given the vague early modern era in which the continent is based.

Edited by Glennstavos

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4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I never said prejudice doesn't exist. Heck I can't even say that about our world and don't expect to in my time. Just that the knights and school are willing to accept these outsiders if they're there at all. On an average day, you'd never notice there's something weird about these people hanging around. In my country, accepting all people into a school or into your national military regardless of race is a less than 100 year old conceit. Hence why I'm impressed with Fodlan's progressiveness given the vague early modern era in which the continent is based.

Yeah, that's while you are literally ignoring many of the circumstances of each of the examples used. Fodlan is far from progressive. Simply cause they are in Garreg Mach does not equate to them actually being truly accepted. Not to mention accepting just a few does not even mean that they accept foreigners as a whole or would be willing to. 

As I pointed out, apart from Dimtiri and Dedue, no one actually gave a real damn about the genocide. Definitely not the Church. Not even Rhea, a literal survivor of a genocide.

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