I need some help with my BL no NG+ Maddening plan

[Taki]

So I'm planning a BL maddening run as much as possible since I heard people literally being stuck with dead save files, because  they screwed their planning and because the mode just sounds really difficult. I'm as good as finished, but there are some things I'm just not sure about:

• My main fear is, that Falcon Knight Byleth needs too much investment for me to recruit so many outside house members.
• Dont really have a dedicated sword user. I thought about getting petra through the assasin line after all since I have way too many flyers anyway.
• I tried to keep as many BL members as possible since the reunion at dawn would screw me over too much otherwise, but I'm really having a hard time with annette and sylvain.
• I've read annette is a great rally bot with bolting axe and wyvern lord, is that true?
• I literally have no idea what to do with sylvain. I've read the cavalry line is just garbage on maddening so I'm trying wyvern lord line
• I've heards battalion vantage-wrath dimitri is bonkers, but is having these 2 skills and applying retribution really all you need?

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Taki said:

I've read annette is a great rally bot with bolting axe and wyvern lord, is that true?

Let me be frank - the Bolt Axe is shit. Too inaccurate, and it's expensive to repair considering Arcane Crystals aren't exactly cheap. So I would say...

That being said, Annette is good for rallying purposes.

For other stuff, I would drop Rally Movement from Annette - she probably will get it too late to matter. Second, Fiendish Blow comes from Mage, and Bowbreaker from Warlock. Third, I wouldn't really consider the weapon crit abilities worth going out of my way for. Fourth, I would consider replacing Faith with Reason for Mercie - her only offensive faith spell is Nosferatu, which sucks gigantic portions of ass in this game. Fifth, I would reconsider Defiant Crit for Hilda - Defiant skills aren't worth it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[LoneRecon400]

-Byleth reaching Falco Knight doesn't require that much investment. She'd only need B in both Lances and Flying to have a 50% chance of certifying, so it's not too bad to get into. 

-There's never a particular need a Sword Users. Thunderbrand and the Rapier are some of the best swords in the game, yet are both E Ranked and can easily be easily used by other classes. 

-If you're concerned about Chapter 13, you should only really be concerned with Annette, Merecedes, and Ashe, as the rest appear too late to really help. But even those units are unnecessary if you're willing to certify Byleth as a as a Fortress Knight for a base 17 Defense.

-Speaking of, Annette as a Wyvern Rider works rather well thanks to Lighting Axe Combat Art. Though I'd recommend dropping Rally Res as mages hurt too much to make that much of a difference and Rally Mov since it takes too much investment to get and doesn't stack with Stride. 

-Sylvain should really focus on lances even if you plan on him becoming a Wyvern Rider. Swift Strikes is an incredible combat art that should really be pritoize on getting, since doubling enemies like Assassins or Swordmasters is very valuable on Maddening. 

-Dimitri also benefits from going Archer instead of Lord since he can be prone to missing some of the dodgy enemies. Hit +20 can really help to alleviate those issues. He should also stay a Paladin since Great Lord doesent offer him anything of interest. 

-You really want a Sniper for Hunter's Volley. Guaranteed one rounding on some of the most dangerous enemies in the game is too much to give up, even when put aganist +3 Move and Canto. Shamir is the best choice for this. 

-I'd recommend ditching Hilda for Catherine instead. You can easily recurit her by Chapter 5, and those Swordmaster bases of her while joining at Level 9 allow her to Snowball pretty easily. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by LoneRecon400

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Either Byleth or Ingrid should go wyvern instead of pegasus. I recommend Ingrid because that way she's less likely to get strength screwed.

Felix might be better as a warrior than a grappler but there are others who can tout the good things about that class more than me.

Sylvain works perfectly well going down the cav line? I mean it's not as good as wyvern lord but it's certainly much easier for him than training his axes and flying. Swift Strikes and paladin on him has served me well in my Maddening run.

Lysithea might be better served going warlock over bishop, but that's just my own personal preference.

Annette is controversial to be sure. I have her in warlock in my run and she's slow but that doesn't matter because she's one shotting EVERYTHING she encounters.

Ashe got so strength screwed in my run that I made him my dancer and watched his performance immediately do better lol.

[LegendOfLoog]

So, here's some things to keep in mind. 

• I used Ingrid in BL Maddening for a bit and thought she was terrible, and thanks to Maddening's XP penalties, she stays that way for a while. You can probably make her work eventually, but Ingrid really sucks at base, just like Ashe and Sylvain. If you wanted to make things easy on yourself, I'd drop all of them and just recruit from other houses. That being said, I had a lot of success with Sylvain because he has something worth the investment, imo. I went Fighter -> Brigand (Death Blow) -> Paladin. Wyvern Lord is ok, but the problem is that on Maddening, Sylvain doesn't really double that much anymore because of how fast enemies are. This is where Swift Strikes comes in, giving every Lance a Brave effect. Once you add Death Blow, Strength +2, and Lancefaire, Sylvain becomes a Player Phase nuke that can ORKO any thing you send him at barring Demonic Beasts. Paladin Sylvain is particularly useful against Swordmasters since they all have Quick Riposte, which makes Sylvain one of the only units who can reliably take them on alone. Sylvain's endgame skill list should look something like Death Blow, Strength +2, Lance Prowess Lv 5, Movement +1, and then some other skill depending on the map. 
• Battalion Wrath + Vantage Dimitri is quite literally the strongest unit in the game. There's no reason to go Brigand though because all of the magic happens on Enemy Phase, and Death Blow is only good on Player Phase. You're better off just going down the Cav line to increase Lance and Riding XP. What I did was tutor Dimitri in Authority only to get the combination as quickly as possible (earliest is probably around Remire Village) and then pivot to training up Lances/Riding. Defensive Tactics is also really good here as it halves damage taken to Battalions, making it easier to get Wrath + Vantage status and stay there. Once you hit A Authority, just focus on getting Lance and Riding ranks up. For final skills, you should have Battalion Wrath, Battalion Vantage, Lance Prowess Lv 5, Lance Crit +10, and some other skill (Lancefaire/Defensive Tactics/Movement +1). Make sure you have another unit apply Retribution on Turn One so Dimitri can always counterattack, and he can clear entire rooms in the endgame without a scratch. Just watch out for siege weapons like Ballistas and Demonic Beasts as he can't counter the former and can't KO the latter.
• Annette as a magic Wyvern is pretty good, yeah. She should have the skills Axe Prowess, Mag +2, Fiendish Blow, Rally Speed, and whatever other skill you have laying around. Bolt Axe+ is sometimes useful for 3 range, but generally, the Lightning Axe combat art is her strongest asset. Crusher's nice too occasionally for a Dust OHKO. Having a flier who can Rally and OHKO is generally more useful than what a standard mage Annette can do.
• I recommend leaving Mercedes as a Bishop. Mercedes is really only useful as a healer, and Bishop gives her +10 to all heals. Getting Black Magic x2 and an extra point of Move isn't worth losing extra healing for a Physic and Fortify user. 

I'd replace Ingrid for Ferdinand as another Swift Strikes user, but this team looks fairly solid. Maddening BL is fairly easy as long as you put the necessary investment into Dimitri, so you should be fine. 

[leesangstar10]

Imo I think you should drop ashe for leonie because exp is scared in maddening. Ashe isn't that good tbh and I would say the worst unit out of all the blue lion students. You could make him your dancer if you are worried about ch 13. Dancers don't necessarily have to have good spell list since most of the time they are, well going to dance. But I think you should be fine since you got a flying Byleth that can fly.

Recommend Catherine or Shamir because of base advance class. Makes the mid game easy imo.

Lysithea's class path is fine, but i recommend instead of bow breaker, go for dark tome flaire. You can get it early enough because of her personal.

Personally I found bow knight Felix to be better. 

Also I found that having too many fliers isn't that good because there isn't many flying battalions. I would recommend making Sylvain a palidin for swift strike+lance flaire(class)+DB+lance flaire(from S+ lance) and other good skills like +mov or lance lvl5

[Shadow Mir]

14 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

Imo I think you should drop ashe for leonie because exp is scared in maddening. Ashe isn't that good tbh and I would say the worst unit out of all the blue lion students. You could make him your dancer if you are worried about ch 13. Dancers don't necessarily have to have good spell list since most of the time they are, well going to dance. But I think you should be fine since you got a flying Byleth that can fly.

Recommend Catherine or Shamir because of base advance class. Makes the mid game easy imo.

Lysithea's class path is fine, but i recommend instead of bow breaker, go for dark tome flaire. You can get it early enough because of her personal.

Personally I found bow knight Felix to be better. 

Also I found that having too many fliers isn't that good because there isn't many flying battalions. I would recommend making Sylvain a palidin for swift strike+lance flaire(class)+DB+lance flaire(from S+ lance) and other good skills like +mov or lance lvl5

Personally, I take issue with the part about achieving S+ rank because it's an extremely impractical notion, even for Lysithea. Also, Ashe has crappy charm.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

re: Annette, the Bolt Axe has hit issues yes, but 9/10 magical attack range is nothing to sneeze at. Reaching Rally Move will take a while, you can use Lancebreaker or Magic+2 before that. The Lightning Axe combat art is great, I've used it on the Devil Axe and Steel Axe+ to regularly one-shot foes.

Sylvain could do great as just a Paladin, owing to Lancefaire and the Swift Strikes combat art.

I assume Mercedes will go Mage? You have Priest listed, but also Fiendish Blow, so...

Leonie gets Point-Blank Volley at A bows, but Cyril gets it at C+ (he has an easy road to Brigand and Sniper/Bow Knight, too). To his own credit, Ashe gets Deadeye. My current BL has Sniper Cyril and Paladin->BK Ashe.

Good luck!

[AxelVDP]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:51 PM, LegendOfLoog said:

So, here's some things to keep in mind. 

• I used Ingrid in BL Maddening for a bit and thought she was terrible, and thanks to Maddening's XP penalties, she stays that way for a while. You can probably make her work eventually, but Ingrid really sucks at base, just like Ashe and Sylvain. If you wanted to make things easy on yourself, I'd drop all of them and just recruit from other houses. That being said, I had a lot of success with Sylvain because he has something worth the investment, imo. I went Fighter -> Brigand (Death Blow) -> Paladin. Wyvern Lord is ok, but the problem is that on Maddening, Sylvain doesn't really double that much anymore because of how fast enemies are. This is where Swift Strikes comes in, giving every Lance a Brave effect. Once you add Death Blow, Strength +2, and Lancefaire, Sylvain becomes a Player Phase nuke that can ORKO any thing you send him at barring Demonic Beasts. Paladin Sylvain is particularly useful against Swordmasters since they all have Quick Riposte, which makes Sylvain one of the only units who can reliably take them on alone. Sylvain's endgame skill list should look something like Death Blow, Strength +2, Lance Prowess Lv 5, Movement +1, and then some other skill depending on the map. 

I'd replace Ingrid for Ferdinand as another Swift Strikes user, but this team looks fairly solid. Maddening BL is fairly easy as long as you put the necessary investment into Dimitri, so you should be fine. 

I guess Ingrid is really one of those units where RNG really breaks or makes her.
in (all of) my playthrough(s), she has always been in the top4 best units of my BL teams (behind Dimitri and Byleth obviously)

I also advise against making her a wyvern simple because it's so much easier and takes so little effort making her a falcon knight, which has basically comparable performances to wyvern lord

btw, maddening mode is not actually that hard (especially blue lions), I suggest you play with what you actually like. if everything goes wrong you can just fall back onto Dimitri, who can easily solo the game by himself with the already mentioned battallion wrath + battallion vantage combo

if you really want some pointers: if you want to use Ashe I recommend wyvern (how novel I know), he has easy access to that class and having a flying thief is -extremely- comfy, also in wyvern he can realistically kill enemies and not just chip them. he obviously needs some babbying early on tho (imho he's not that good if you make him a cav archer, his dmg is really lacking there)

Dedue is also a very comfy unit, he's like the only unit in the game who can actually tank hits in maddening (excluding evasion tank builds on other characters, who are also usually better), extremely useful early on, post timeskip he stops being as useful (you cannot use him in the early timeskip chapters and the later chapters are full of mages), but it's still useable

you could use Seteth over Hilda as a wyvern since he takes way less work to get (don't have to recruit him, comes already in wyvern with good ranks and easy promotion to wyvern lord, has swift strikes, has authority for good flying battallions, iirc has more supports with BL units so more linked attacks and gambit boosts opportunities etc)

weapon crit+ are pretty underwhelming, especially considering the effort you need to put in to get them, I'd consider them only on Dimitri (100% crit builds), brawlers (they get more valoue out of it due to multiple hits) and snipers (hunters volley)

swift strikes users usually ORKO units even without crits

if you feel you lack archers (if you make Ashe a wyvern for example), you could consider making Felix one (he's pretty good as one)

[leesangstar10]

19 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Personally, I take issue with the part about achieving S+ rank because it's an extremely impractical notion, even for Lysithea. Also, Ashe has crappy charm.

I think it is possible. Lysithea really only needs B in faith, so after that you can just focus only on reason for tutoring. Of course if you are going for dark knight then it is impractical.

I mean you could use a black pearl which I believe you get by then. I personally wouldn't change him to a dancer, but it is an option.

11 hours ago, AxelVDP said:

Dedue is also a very comfy unit, he's like the only unit in the game who can actually tank hits in maddening (excluding evasion tank builds on other characters, who are also usually better), extremely useful early on, post timeskip he stops being as useful (you cannot use him in the early timeskip chapters and the later chapters are full of mages), but it's still useable

Imo i found Dedue still useful late game. Dedue could actually tank the annoying sword masters and assassin with some combo of stat boosters/meal, silver/sieros shield, Duscar battalion(forgot name), and personal. And if you get QR he becomes the only one that can actually kill sword masters and assassin. Def not as useful as he was early, but acceptable.

[Geenoble]

17 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

I think it is possible. Lysithea really only needs B in faith, so after that you can just focus only on reason for tutoring. Of course if you are going for dark knight then it is impractical.

I mean you could use a black pearl which I believe you get by then. I personally wouldn't change him to a dancer, but it is an option.

Imo i found Dedue still useful late game. Dedue could actually tank the annoying sword masters and assassin with some combo of stat boosters/meal, silver/sieros shield, Duscar battalion(forgot name), and personal. And if you get QR he becomes the only one that can actually kill sword masters and assassin. Def not as useful as he was early, but acceptable.

My Dedue in end game soloed the final boss since he took zero damage and i found that pretty funny.

___

In terms of the original post I'll address each units individually. I reccomend having Hp +5 on all units until they break 35 hp (not including Hp +5) since it can help drastically with bulk issues early game to have those high hit points.

Spoiler

Byleth looks ok. But i would say that you should consider having a skill like Speed +2 on her for the time until you get Sword crit, since Sword crit won't be until a bit into the timeskip whereas you get Speed +2 by Chapter 5 so it could be more Speed +2 until chapter 16 for example then Sword Crit. You could also have HP+5 instead of speed +2.

Spoiler

If you're going to have Dmitri end in Great Lord go Myrmidon or Fighter instead of Soldier. Strength +2 or Speed +2 will be really useful up until you get Lance Crit, you could do Hp +5 but i find Speed and Str more valuable on Dimitri. If you end in Paladin though go Soldier since Repostion on Canto Classes is insanely good. He won't always need Retribution, that's just something you use for when you throw him in range of 20 enemies. You can easily just have him sit in the range of a Warrior and the warrior will attack him at 1 range, no Retribution needed, just need to be careful about his range with Archers/Seige tomes.

Spoiler

Same thing with Byleth and Dimitri about the Crit skill. Unless you get really Strength Blessed, i would actually reccomend you go Axe Prowess for Ingrid and make her Wyvern Lord instead. The extra strength from WL can really help her, and Axes higher mt also mitigates her low strength, especially since all of Ingrids other stats are really good. Also if you do want to end in FK then you should really make her a Wyvern rider for advanced classes anyway. Being in Pegasus for those 10 levels will make her fall off hard.

Spoiler

Felix. No issues, make sure to get the Aegis Sheild.

Don't have time for other units right now but I may review them sooner or later.