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Best Characters for Each Abyssian (DLC) Class

Best Characters for Each Abyssian (DLC) Class  

24 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Who is the Best Trickster?

    • Byleth
      2
    • Edelgard
      0
    • Hubert
      0
    • Dorothea
      0
    • Ferdinand
      0
    • Bernadetta
      1
    • Caspar
      0
    • Petra
      0
    • Linhardt
      0
    • Dimitri
      0
    • Dedue
      0
    • Felix
      0
    • Mercedes
      0
    • Ashe
      0
    • Annette
      1
    • Sylvain
      0
    • Ingrid
      0
    • Claude
      0
    • Lorenz
      0
    • Hilda
      0
    • Raphael
      0
    • Lysithea
      0
    • Ignatz
      1
    • Marianne
      2
    • Leonie
      0
    • Yuri
      11
    • Balthus
      0
    • Constance
      0
    • Hapi
      0
    • Manuela
      4
    • Hanneman
      0
    • Seteth
      0
    • Flayn
      0
    • Jeritza
      0
    • Cyril
      0
    • Catherine
      0
    • Alois
      0
    • Gilbert
      0
    • Shamir
      0
    • Anna
      2
  2. 2. Who is the Best War Monk/Cleric?

    • Byleth
      6
    • Edelgard
      1
    • Hubert
      0
    • Dorothea
      1
    • Ferdinand
      0
    • Bernadetta
      0
    • Caspar
      0
    • Petra
      0
    • Linhardt
      0
    • Dimitri
      0
    • Dedue
      0
    • Felix
      1
    • Mercedes
      0
    • Ashe
      0
    • Annette
      2
    • Sylvain
      0
    • Ingrid
      0
    • Claude
      0
    • Lorenz
      0
    • Hilda
      0
    • Raphael
      1
    • Lysithea
      0
    • Ignatz
      0
    • Marianne
      0
    • Leonie
      0
    • Yuri
      0
    • Balthus
      6
    • Constance
      2
    • Hapi
      0
    • Manuela
      0
    • Hanneman
      0
    • Seteth
      0
    • Flayn
      0
    • Jeritza
      0
    • Cyril
      0
    • Catherine
      3
    • Alois
      1
    • Gilbert
      0
    • Shamir
      0
    • Anna
      0
  3. 3. Who is the Best Dark Flier?

    • Byleth
      0
    • Edelgard
      0
    • Dorothea
      0
    • Bernadetta
      0
    • Petra
      0
    • Mercedes
      1
    • Annette
      1
    • Ingrid
      1
    • Hilda
      0
    • Lysithea
      5
    • Marianne
      5
    • Leonie
      0
    • Constance
      6
    • Hapi
      1
    • Manuela
      0
    • Flayn
      4
    • Catherine
      0
    • Shamir
      0
    • Anna
      0
  4. 4. Who is the Best Valkyrie?

    • Byleth
      0
    • Edelgard
      0
    • Dorothea
      0
    • Bernadetta
      0
    • Petra
      0
    • Mercedes
      0
    • Annette
      1
    • Ingrid
      1
    • Hilda
      0
    • Lysithea
      9
    • Marianne
      6
    • Leonie
      0
    • Constance
      1
    • Hapi
      6
    • Manuela
      0
    • Flayn
      0
    • Catherine
      0
    • Shamir
      0
    • Anna
      0

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  • Poll closed on 03/02/20 at 08:15 AM

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8 minutes ago, Smokie1437 said:

 On top of that Dark Flier has 0 mag growth which is just inexcusable. Classes like Bow Knight have bad growth to balance them, but there is nothing about Dark Flier that needs this type of balancing.

Dark flyer get the same range of bow knight whit Thyrsus and even more whit bolting, while ignoring the terrain penalties, not reducing accuracy for long range attacks and hitting res while also being able to use white magic. Wyvern lord Annette worked well despite the 0 mag and -5% mag growth and is significantly less versatile than her or any other mage in Dark Flyer. 

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2 hours ago, Smokie1437 said:

I don't think Dark Flier is that good (unfortunately). With Constance you really want 2x Black magic uses because Bolting is so insanely good, so that means Warlock or Gremory. And Warlock is the one that gets Tomefaire so... Warlock it is. On top of that Dark Flier has 0 mag growth which is just inexcusable. Classes like Bow Knight have bad growth to balance them, but there is nothing about Dark Flier that needs this type of balancing.

Warlock has tomefaire but only +3 magic compared to Gremory’s +5. So we’re really talking about 3 damage vs +1 move and an extra use of rescue. YMMV but I’d give the nod to Gremory. 

Agreed that dark flier is being overrated on her. Access to lots of bolting diminishes the flying utility, and she’ll never be as good of a combat unit as, say, lysithea. 

Edited by ApocaLips

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1 hour ago, Smokie1437 said:

I don't think Dark Flier is that good (unfortunately). With Constance you really want 2x Black magic uses because Bolting is so insanely good, so that means Warlock or Gremory. And Warlock is the one that gets Tomefaire so... Warlock it is. On top of that Dark Flier has 0 mag growth which is just inexcusable. Classes like Bow Knight have bad growth to balance them, but there is nothing about Dark Flier that needs this type of balancing.

I can see the argument for Warlock, especially considering Constance’s Crest gives her a 20% chance to conserve a use of offensive magic, which is more useful when she has more uses of her spells. Still though, 3 Move, flight, and Canto are a lot to give up for that. What does Warlock Constance do after she runs out of Bolting and/or falls too far behind to effectively use it? A 4 Move mage isn’t going to get many opportunities to attack anything on most maps beyond the first couple of turns. On the other hand, Dark Flier Constance can keep up and continually attack enemy units without relying solely on Bolting. Flight gives Constance more effectiveness with Rescue as well. Dark Flier has so many other advantages that a couple uses of Bolting are a worthy trade, imo. 

 

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On 2/17/2020 at 9:08 PM, Dylan Corona said:

Yeah, I gave his pass to Flyan, who is rocking it as a Dark Flier. I kept Balthus as a Grappler, as it stands right now. I think I got some bad levels on him though, he needs some speed haha.

But then again, He can still use that SWEET Brawl Avoid +20 when going into War Master.

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5 hours ago, ApocaLips said:

Warlock has tomefaire but only +3 magic compared to Gremory’s +5. So we’re really talking about 3 damage vs +1 move and an extra use of rescue. YMMV but I’d give the nod to Gremory. 

Agreed that dark flier is being overrated on her. Access to lots of bolting diminishes the flying utility, and she’ll never be as good of a combat unit as, say, lysithea. 

Hmm, didn't know Gremory had +1 move, you are right that probably changes my opinion.

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Voted for War Cleric as Constance’s best endgame class.

Imo Dark Flier is a bad class for Constance. The only flying battalion that boosts mag is Nuvelle Flier Corps which gives merely +5 hit. Note that Constance has really bad dex and luck growths. She is going to have some big hit issues in late game maddening without a proper battalion. Bolting is cool but she will never hit anybody.

The good things about War Cleric are the 6 mov (1 more than Gremory) and fistfaire. Be reminded that Constance has strength in brawling and authority. She can equip Macuil Evil Repelling Corps (which gives +7 mag and +30 hit) and aura knuckles to deliver nuke damage nobody else can hope to achieve (except possibly Lysithea, but you would want her as Valkyrie).

This requires A in both brawling and authority, but I see no problem because we’re talking about endgame and Constance has the respective strengths. You may also want uncanny blow (+30 hit on player turn) from Valkyrie, but you can just master it early and reclass to War Cleric.

Some of you may be sad because your Gremory Constance loses 3 bolting. Well, that’s my choice. I prefer nuke damage to the 3 extra bolting.

Edit: Numbers

Edited by Wishblade

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46 minutes ago, Wishblade said:

Some of you may be sad because your Gremory Constance loses 2 bolting. Well, that’s my choice. I prefer nuke damage to the 2 extra bolting.

Actually she would lose 3 Boltings. Trickster and War Cleric are half caster, like Noble and commoner, meaning they have half as many spells as a normal magic class and a quarter of the spells a gremory would get. 

Now the big problem with this build is that War cleric is a frontline class. Constance has abysmal 20% hp and 15% def growths so if you want use her as a War cleric you will have to devote you units to constantly protecting her from any other enemy in range. While 70% mag and fistfaire aura knuckles does sound devastating the cost of having to protect her just isn't worth it. Dark flier, gremory or Valkyrie are much better options. Gremory gives more magic and 3 more bolting along with 4 more rescue uses for saving units in danger or moving others to the action. Dark Flier has 7 move flying rescue which is great, and the black tomefaire gives more mag than War cleric even with the 10% growth bonus(1 extra point per 10 levels.) and she's not locked to 1 range to do proper damage like War Cleric giving it a total of 9 normal effective range, 17 with bolting. Valkyrie's extra range also as the same effective range meaning she doesn't have to expose herself to danger as she can attack from further and then canto back .

In regards to the low hit on Dark flier being a problem you gave the solution yourself. Train her to C rank in riding to get Uncanny blow from Valkyrie which is 30 hit on player phase btw. That's the same bonus Macuil would give and she doesn't need +60 hit to be viable. But overall I don't think Constance should be used as an offensive powerhouse like Hubert or Lysithea, but rather a support mage with Bolting's and rescues(Gremory for more of the former and DF for the latter). Wasting all that utility by making her a War cleric doesn't make sense to me. 

EDIT: Can someone actually check if War cleric is half caster? I haven't got it unlocked on my current run and I remember it being but that might just have been trickster and I got confused.

Edited by SpiceMan

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29 minutes ago, SpiceMan said:

EDIT: Can someone actually check if War cleric is half caster? I haven't got it unlocked on my current run and I remember it being but that might just have been trickster and I got confused.

No, you're correct, it is.

I'd say glass cannon builds at 1 range can definitely work, but it's better if they have canto. In her case she would be a 6 move delete button, there's some merit to that for sure, but yeah. Should have fairly remarkable avoid with War Cleric's mastery in hand, at least, which would help survivability-wise. Shame magic battalions tend to give very little avoid.

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5 hours ago, SpiceMan said:

Actually she would lose 3 Boltings. Trickster and War Cleric are half caster, like Noble and commoner, meaning they have half as many spells as a normal magic class and a quarter of the spells a gremory would get. 

Now the big problem with this build is that War cleric is a frontline class. Constance has abysmal 20% hp and 15% def growths so if you want use her as a War cleric you will have to devote you units to constantly protecting her from any other enemy in range. While 70% mag and fistfaire aura knuckles does sound devastating the cost of having to protect her just isn't worth it. Dark flier, gremory or Valkyrie are much better options. Gremory gives more magic and 3 more bolting along with 4 more rescue uses for saving units in danger or moving others to the action. Dark Flier has 7 move flying rescue which is great, and the black tomefaire gives more mag than War cleric even with the 10% growth bonus(1 extra point per 10 levels.) and she's not locked to 1 range to do proper damage like War Cleric giving it a total of 9 normal effective range, 17 with bolting. Valkyrie's extra range also as the same effective range meaning she doesn't have to expose herself to danger as she can attack from further and then canto back .

In regards to the low hit on Dark flier being a problem you gave the solution yourself. Train her to C rank in riding to get Uncanny blow from Valkyrie which is 30 hit on player phase btw. That's the same bonus Macuil would give and she doesn't need +60 hit to be viable. But overall I don't think Constance should be used as an offensive powerhouse like Hubert or Lysithea, but rather a support mage with Bolting's and rescues(Gremory for more of the former and DF for the latter). Wasting all that utility by making her a War cleric doesn't make sense to me. 

First of all, I don’t think +60 hit is an overkill. Constance’s dex really isn’t much and maddening enemies have some nasty evasions. It’s to guarantee hits in the nastiest situations.

And, about the support utility. Rescue is seldom needed more than twice if you have good positioning. She doesn’t have physic so the only thing that really matters is Bolting. I may change my decision if I’m playing maddening BL, but since that’s just 1/4 of all routes, my vote still goes to War Cleric.

Yes, War Cleric is a frontline class, so you would need support for her. Support or be supported, you would still lose 1 unit. I’d rather use her astounding mag than to let it go to waste. A character who can consistently ORKO enemies (except beasts) on maddening is rare. WL Annetta has hit issues with swordmasters and Crusher issue on non-BL routes. Lysithea has limited use on her high level spells. Bernadetta requires fine HP control. WC Constance is interesting because her ORKO would be unconditional (i.e. a delete button). It allows for more aggressive strategies, thus my choice.

Edited by Wishblade

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6 hours ago, Wishblade said:

Voted for War Cleric as Constance’s best endgame class.

Imo Dark Flier is a bad class for Constance. The only flying battalion that boosts mag is Nuvelle Flier Corps which gives merely +5 hit. Note that Constance has really bad dex and luck growths. She is going to have some big hit issues in late game maddening without a proper battalion. Bolting is cool but she will never hit anybody.

The good things about War Cleric are the 6 mov (1 more than Gremory) and fistfaire. Be reminded that Constance has strength in brawling and authority. She can equip Macuil Evil Repelling Corps (which gives +7 mag and +30 hit) and aura knuckles to deliver nuke damage nobody else can hope to achieve (except possibly Lysithea, but you would want her as Valkyrie).

This requires A in both brawling and authority, but I see no problem because we’re talking about endgame and Constance has the respective strengths. You may also want uncanny blow (+30 hit on player turn) from Valkyrie, but you can just master it early and reclass to War Cleric.

Some of you may be sad because your Gremory Constance loses 3 bolting. Well, that’s my choice. I prefer nuke damage to the 3 extra bolting.

Edit: Numbers

Sorry, but I think this is too much work for too little profit - ergo, that it isn’t worth it. You’re giving up a hell of a lot for the sake of something that I cannot see as anything other than a gimmick.

3 hours ago, Wishblade said:

First of all, I don’t think +60 hit is an overkill. Constance’s dex really isn’t much and maddening enemies have some nasty evasions. It’s to guarantee hits in the nastiest situations.

And, about the support utility. Rescue is seldom needed more than twice if you have good positioning. She doesn’t have physic so the only thing that matters a lot is Bolting. I may change my decision if I’m playing maddening BL, but since that’s just 1/4 of all routes, my vote still goes to War Cleric.

Yes, War Cleric is a frontline class, so you would need support for her. Support or be supported, you still lose 1 unit. I’d rather use her astounding mag than to let it go to waste. A character who can consistently ORKO humanoid enemies on maddening is rare. WL Annetta has hit issue with swordmasters and Crusher issue on non-BL route. Lysithea has limited use on her high level spells. Bernadetta requires fine HP control. WC Constance is interesting because her ORKO would be unconditional (i.e. a delete button). It allows for more aggressive strategies, thus my choice.

I’m not seeing much of an “unconditional” delete button when her weapon of choice has all of 2 might, and is gonna cost you a Divine Pulse if things don’t work out. This is ignoring that she needs to turn brawling into a strength first (which I would not consider worth it when I could have gotten Bolting sooner instead), and the fact I have to spread her thin in regards to lesson plans (She needs reason, riding, faith, brawling AND authority... and to reach A in the latter two)... Yeah, no. I’d have to jump through an assload of mental hoops to justify this...

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8 hours ago, Wishblade said:

First of all, I don’t think +60 hit is an overkill. Constance’s dex really isn’t much and maddening enemies have some nasty evasions. It’s to guarantee hits in the nastiest situations.

And, about the support utility. Rescue is seldom needed more than twice if you have good positioning. She doesn’t have physic so the only thing that really matters is Bolting. I may change my decision if I’m playing maddening BL, but since that’s just 1/4 of all routes, my vote still goes to War Cleric.

Yes, War Cleric is a frontline class, so you would need support for her. Support or be supported, you would still lose 1 unit. I’d rather use her astounding mag than to let it go to waste. A character who can consistently ORKO enemies (except beasts) on maddening is rare. WL Annetta has hit issues with swordmasters and Crusher issue on non-BL routes. Lysithea has limited use on her high level spells. Bernadetta requires fine HP control. WC Constance is interesting because her ORKO would be unconditional (i.e. a delete button). It allows for more aggressive strategies, thus my choice.

60 Hit is extremely overkill. From Levels 30 to 40, Constance’s Hit rate with Bolting (assuming she goes Monk->Mage->Dark Flier) is around 105. Just using final map stats from BL Maddening, the three most common enemy types are Mortal Savant, Gremory, and War Master. Their Magic Avoid is around 35-40. That leaves Constance’s Bolting Hit rate at 70ish. Is that shaky? Sure, but if that’s a concern, you can just go Valkyrie and grab Uncanny Blow, which gives +30 Hit. 60 extra Hit is entirely unnecessary. 

Rescue is useful beyond just fixing positioning. It can function as a Warp, or you can use it to enable more plays. This is particularly true on a flier because a rescue from an infantry unit is, generally, only useful defensively. Dark Flier Constance’s Rescues are much more useful than War Cleric’s just by virtue of having Canto and flight. 

As far as units that can ORKO on Maddening, there are many. Byleth and the lords can one round. Sylvain and Ferdinand can do it as Paladins with Swift Strikes. Felix and Catherine can. Hell, even Cyril probably can with Point Blank Volley and Death Blow. I’m sure there are more that I’m not remembering. WC Constance’s damage output does seem impressive, but there are plenty of other units that meet the necessary benchmarks to one round. An infantry unit like WC Constance with no Canto, no Speed, and no bulk just doesn’t seem very useful in comparison. 

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5 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

As far as units that can ORKO on Maddening, there are many. Byleth and the lords can one round. Sylvain and Ferdinand can do it as Paladins with Swift Strikes. Felix and Catherine can. Hell, even Cyril probably can with Point Blank Volley and Death Blow. I’m sure there are more that I’m not remembering. WC Constance’s damage output does seem impressive, but there are plenty of other units that meet the necessary benchmarks to one round. An infantry unit like WC Constance with no Canto, no Speed, and no bulk just doesn’t seem very useful in comparison. 

I wasn’t being specific. There are quite some units who can one round generic enemies. I was looking for units who can ORKO named enemies like Dimitri, Claude and Petra. Some of them have counterattack so a ORKO would prevent their devastating counter attack.

To me, no hit is too high if it can’t 100% hit Petra. Against Bolting, her avoid easily goes beyond 130%. A glass cannon is useless if it can’t delete everyone.

I’m probably going too far for a glass cannon build. Feel free to judge me.

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If you can kill everyone whit bolting every map became:"use bolting on the boss; if too far, use warp and stride, then bolting on the boss." At least stride+warping dimitri usually take some planning because he is melee and has to cover more ground.. 

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2 hours ago, Wishblade said:

I wasn’t being specific. There are quite some units who can one round generic enemies. I was looking for units who can ORKO named enemies like Dimitri, Claude and Petra. Some of them have counterattack so a ORKO would prevent their devastating counter attack.

To me, no hit is too high if it can’t 100% hit Petra. Against Bolting, her avoid easily goes beyond 130%. A glass cannon is useless if it can’t delete everyone.

I’m probably going too far for a glass cannon build. Feel free to judge me.

I see, but the Swift Strikes Paladins (Ferdinand and Sylvain) hit twice consecutively, so they can do that as well. Same for Point Blank Volley Cyril or anyone with Hunter's Volley. And while I see the appeal of having accuracy that high, I've usually been able to KO Petra with a Gambit or two because her Charm isn't particularly high. And there are next to no units with that level of Avoid, so it just seems unnecessary, imo. I'm definitely going to try it at some point for fun (along with Wyvern Lord Hapi), but it seems kind of sketchy on Maddening, imo. 

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16 hours ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Just using final map stats from BL Maddening

Oh come on.

10 hours ago, Wishblade said:

A glass cannon is useless if it can’t delete everyone.

I’m probably going too far for a glass cannon build. Feel free to judge me.

I don't think it's "going too far" in the sense that this isn't that complicated a build to achieve. That being said, the first sentence of that quote is quite the exaggeration for sure. I agree with you that there are several tiers of ORKO in this game however, as a result of beasts and the aforementioned bosses existing. Not quite sure Aura Knuckles!Constance belongs at the top. She has limited crit potential and will always only hit twice; granted a brave magic attack is extremely good in the first place, but still.

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13 hours ago, Wishblade said:

I wasn’t being specific. There are quite some units who can one round generic enemies. I was looking for units who can ORKO named enemies like Dimitri, Claude and Petra. Some of them have counterattack so a ORKO would prevent their devastating counter attack.

To me, no hit is too high if it can’t 100% hit Petra. Against Bolting, her avoid easily goes beyond 130%. A glass cannon is useless if it can’t delete everyone.

I’m probably going too far for a glass cannon build. Feel free to judge me.

If I wanted a glass cannon build, I’d make sure it’s actually practical... which this most definitely isn’t. If I really considered Counterattack that much of a problem, I’d rather have Byleth invest into swords for Windsweep. Which, incidentally, is why I think swords are slept on. Also, Petra is only one enemy - and frankly, you’re better off recruiting her instead (no way in the seven hells am I going to entertain the thought of having the most evasive character in the game as an enemy, especially when they show up twice).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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4 hours ago, Cysx said:

Oh come on.

I brought up Maddening because the original post was

On 2/19/2020 at 12:58 AM, Wishblade said:

Note that Constance has really bad dex and luck growths. She is going to have some big hit issues in late game maddening without a proper battalion. Bolting is cool but she will never hit anybody.

So I used the latest Maddening game map with the most stat inflation to make a point that Uncanny Blow is enough to fix Constance’s Hit rate issues with Bolting. What did I say to elicit a “Come on” reaction? 

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14 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I brought up Maddening because the original post was

So I used the latest Maddening game map with the most stat inflation to make a point that Uncanny Blow is enough to fix Constance’s Hit rate issues with Bolting. What did I say to elicit a “Come on” reaction? 

When you and I debated a few months ago, you kept bringing up that map specifically(but on hard), and basing your analysis of units on it. I just found it funny that you'd do it again after all this time.

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1 hour ago, Cysx said:

When you and I debated a few months ago, you kept bringing up that map specifically(but on hard), and basing your analysis of units on it. I just found it funny that you'd do it again after all this time.

Old habits die hard. Though on a more serious note, I could have used any of the late game Maddening maps to make the same point (that Constance doesn’t need +60 Hit for Bolting to hit things). The list of BE Maddening mode stats here seems to be mostly consistent with that. I just lead with the BL map because it’s the one I have on hand. 

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1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Old habits die hard. Though on a more serious note, I could have used any of the late game Maddening maps to make the same point (that Constance doesn’t need +60 Hit for Bolting to hit things). The list of BE Maddening mode stats here seems to be mostly consistent with that. I just lead with the BL map because it’s the one I have on hand. 

Yeah, that wasn't me disagreeing with the conclusion itself. Could definitely have made that clear.

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Personally i used endgame enemies stats because most things are frontloaded(blows faires and the like, battalions, and so on all shows up innthe first half.) So if i can prove that my build can oneshot a fortress knight on GD final map, it's 99% likely that it can oneshot every other feneric unit in the game once it get it's gear spinning 

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18 minutes ago, Jayvee94 said:

I'm curious. Would you still let Balthus to go through War Monk EVEN IF you're not planning to make it his final class?

I honestly would. Gauntlet Avoid +20 is quite good, especially if he's going all-in on knuckles as a Grappler. He'll mostly be a player-phase delete button, but boosted Avoid for survivability is always welcome. The only case I wouldn't is if I'm using him in a non-gauntlets build, like Vantage/Wrath Hero.

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