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Barren

Ashe or Ingrid for best dancer candidate in Blue Lions

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Currently deciding on a dancer candidate for my Blue Lions run for reasons similar to my Golden Deer run so I can have a dancer on standby during the Hunting by Daybreak chapter fight. I'm hung up between Ashe and Ingrid since either one will be good dancers if I build them from the start.

I know that on the one hand, Ashe is a easy pick because at least he has Physic as a long range range even though his magic growth is not great. However, he can still contribute in that way. Aside from the aforementioned Dancer build, he can probably have speed +2, HP +5, or similar with my Dancer Marianne build move +1 (though that will take longer I feel for me to work towards). His speed growth isn't bad either with a solid 50% growth. He can be made a decent Sniper with Death Blow since he has a boon in axes and lock picking while not vital in winning can be convenient on certain maps. Bow Knight or Wyvern Lord are his better classes since they have high move (Wyvern Lord more so for flight). Ashe being a dancer means I'll have dancing available sooner during Hunting by Daybreak since he appears with Gilbert and he could be dodge tanking for me in the bushes somewhere.

Ingrid on the other hand, has a boon in swords and riding like Marianne. She might have a tougher time getting out of the blocks because of her low strength growth (same as Ashe actually as they share a 35% strength growth). She is more redeemable than Ashe since Death Blow and Darting Blow allows her to hit hard while doubling. Plus she is fast with a 60% growth so she can dodge a bit more reliably than him. Like Ashe, she does have Physic so she can heal when need be. I can basically copy and paste the Marianne dancer build but still give her the Luin lance incase she needs to use her exclusive Combat art Burning Quake. I do like her ability Lady Knight as it can help her with gambit damage which I would use more often as a Falcon Knight or Wyvern Lord. Though if I make Ingrid a dancer then that means that I'll get a dancer later on after Ashe and Co arrive. While she will definitely give Sylvain and Felix an edge in combat since their support is especially good, at least half the map would be cleaned up by that point.

So I guess I'm trying to figure out if I want to either have either Ashe or Ingrid take it to the skies while the other stays on the ground and bust a move. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. Or if you think someone else from the Blue Lions is a better dancer candidate that would be fine too. Thanks in advance

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To the extent that you want to win Reunion at Dawn, there isn't a lot of difference between Ingrid and a non-Lions Dancer.  That map is hard because of the first five or six turns; if you can stabilize there, the rest of the map (by the time Ingrid/Sylvain/Felix arrive) should be doable without even any Divine Pulse use.  That said, unless you make one of Byleth or Dimitri a Flyer then send them north, it can be difficult for Dancer Ashe to get into a useful position to start dancing in time without getting blown up.  I wouldn't say there's a lot of difference here.  If you truly want to pick Dancer just to destroy that one map, then Dancer Dimitri is arguably the best - you give up Swordbreaker from using Swords over Lances, but Sword Avo +20 + Dimitri's passive evade boost at high health + sitting on a forest tile should make it very difficult for anything to hit him.  That said, you don't strictly need your Dancer to be on that map, it's just a nice-to-have.

As far as the rest of the game, Ingrid has a bit of a similar issue to Dimitri in that yes, they both make good Dancers, but you give up their normal strengths / role to go Dancer with them.  Variety is the spice of life so if you want to do something different with Ingrid than the "vanilla" Falcon Knight build, go for it, but I will say that Ingrid's FK build is quite helpful in the siege-tome heavy later maps of Azure Moon.  Breakneck speed, Alert Stance+, and good Resistance growth from FK means she can safely bait out siege tome charges and survive a blast if she get hit anyway, and can soar in and snipe mages in close combat then retreat.  If you want to skip out on that, I'd try to ensure you have a plan in advance for other ways to handle them, which do exist - Retribution / Blessing / Vantage, Impregnable Wall, the aforementioned dodgetank Dancer Dimitri, or just another really dodgy flyer like Petra or a flying build of Catherine/Manuela or the like.

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Personally, I don't feel like the Blue Lions have that great a selection of dancers, and more times than not I just end up recruiting Marianne instead. But out of the two you're deciding between, I'd definitely recommend Ingrid for her sword and riding boons as well as her 60% speed growth. She'll make excellent use of the standard Marianne dancer build (Sword Prowess, Sword Avo+20, Axebreaker,  Movement+1, Special Dance, Wo Dao+, Evasion Ring) and you'll have her for Ch.13, which looks to be your primary focus here. She also appears with Sylvain, who's easily gonna be one of your strongest non-Dimitri units on HBD. Ashe by comparison just doesn't offer as much in the dancer department. No riding or sword boons and Physic, while nice, is better suited for a dedicated healer like Mercedes. He also shows up with Gilbert of all people... probably not the best unit to be dancing for, at least compared to Sylvain. His dex growth could be good for securing crits on the enemy phase, but it would ultimately serve him much better as a Sniper, combining the class's high dex growth with a Killer Bow+ and a Critical Ring for a long-range player phase crit machine.

The one issue with choosing Ingrid though, is that you'll be sacrificing her combat potential as a Falcon Knight. However, this is mostly alleviated by the fact that even as a dancer, she'll still be an incredibly valuable combat unit, functioning as your dancer on the player phase and a fast, reliable dodge tank on the enemy phase. Ashe, on the other hand, misses out on being a Sniper, which is a much greater loss for him since he just doesn't perform that well in any other roles. It's Sniper or nothing for Ashe, while Ingrid's far more versatile in what she can excel at.

Edited by RainbowMoon

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1 hour ago, SnowFire said:

That said, unless you make one of Byleth or Dimitri a Flyer then send them north, it can be difficult for Dancer Ashe to get into a useful position to start dancing in time without getting blown up.

It would have to be Byleth, since Dimitri is stuck as a High Lord for this map. RIP mobility. I didn't have a Dancer of AM Chapter 13, so I can't advise on this front.

I would say that Ingrid is more inclined to being a Dancer, given her boons in Swords and Riding.  And she can still dodgetank decently on enemy phase, while dealing better damage with Levin Swords. However, even a bad unit can make a good Dancer - so you're losing out on less, so to speak, by making Ashe your Dancer. If you want both of them flying, you could instead make an out-of-house recruit (Flayn, Marianne, Ferdinand) do it; of course, they'll be absent in chapter 13.

Good luck either way!

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Ingrid seems like the better choice if only because like all of you are saying she seems to have more going for her. And I would just basically do what I did with Marianne. Plus she doesn’t need that much work to be good dancer.

I did read up on Dimitri getting sword avoid while not having to be a dancer which is another neat idea. I was planning on working on his sword rank so he can get windsweep so that can also work in my favor too. Maybe a bit better since swordbreaker applies to only sword users where as sword avoid just needs to have a sword equipped. Though he’ll lose avoid thanks to his battalion. However it’s very minor so I won’t worry about that.

As far as other recruits, I could do Flayn as well since her starting charm stat starting off gives her an auto win. Definitely something to consider. My idea was that if I’m going to get more done on chapter 13 I wanted to have a dancer deployed. Also thanks @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate. I’ll probably need it just I reckon it’s only harder because Dimitri is forced to be on foot and I wouldn’t be able to have him get around that well.

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3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

To the extent that you want to win Reunion at Dawn, there isn't a lot of difference between Ingrid and a non-Lions Dancer. 

I definitely have to second this; only the units who join on the west are relevant in that map. If you want a Dancer to be actually helpful there, the choices are Dimitri, Ashe, Annette, or Mercedes. And if you were planning to bench any of these units, I'd make them the Dancer instead just to avoid that - the upgrade from "badly underlevelled unit" to "Dancer" on that map is huge.

If you're planning to use all of them anyway, then by all means make the Dancer someone else. Ingrid's as fine a choice as any, Marianne and Flayn work too (although the charm shouldn't be an issue; all the characters you're considering have excellent Charm outside of Ashe, and even his is good enough for Dancer usually).

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It really depends on how you like to build your dancers. I'm of the school of thought that likes to have my dancer be used only for dancing, which means that I don't really care about stats, spells, boons, or much of anything else. In that case, the best choice is whoever is going to be least useful in other roles, which makes Ashe the obvious choice. On the other hand, if you're the sort who likes to try to turn your dancer into a dodge tank or a backup healer or otherwise use them for anything other than dancing, then Ingrid will be better at it.

Basically: dancer Ingrid will be a better dancer; dancer Ashe will be a better overall team.

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5 hours ago, SnowFire said:

As far as the rest of the game, Ingrid has a bit of a similar issue to Dimitri in that yes, they both make good Dancers, but you give up their normal strengths / role to go Dancer with them.  Variety is the spice of life so if you want to do something different with Ingrid than the "vanilla" Falcon Knight build, go for it, but I will say that Ingrid's FK build is quite helpful in the siege-tome heavy later maps of Azure Moon.  Breakneck speed, Alert Stance+, and good Resistance growth from FK means she can safely bait out siege tome charges and survive a blast if she get hit anyway, and can soar in and snipe mages in close combat then retreat.  If you want to skip out on that, I'd try to ensure you have a plan in advance for other ways to handle them, which do exist - Retribution / Blessing / Vantage, Impregnable Wall, the aforementioned dodgetank Dancer Dimitri, or just another really dodgy flyer like Petra or a flying build of Catherine/Manuela or the like.

That's how I feel too. Ingrid has the makings to be a wonderful dancer, but her character is an offensive powerhouse once you get her going. She's the best person to use Luin because she doesn't get a penalty and if you wanted to spice it up a bit, magical Ingrid is a great unit as well. Her base growths can go either way- once you pick the class line she begins to snowball. Ingrid's spell list makes her a great candidate to be a Valkyrie, Dark Knight, and/or Dark Flier. She's a very versatile and great unit combat-wise, so it seems like a missed opportunity to make her a dancer unless she gets stat screwed.

Ashe, on the other hand, usually won't be as statistically great as Ingrid and doesn't have a sacred weapon to help him. His personal skill is locktouch, and tbh, making him a dancer makes him Lara 2.0. He is great for utility already, so why not expand on that role? 

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I personally would recommend Annette or Mercedes as Dancers for Blue Lions over Ashe and Ingrid for reasons mentioned above. They both are naturally magic units, and good support skills like Fortify for Mercedes and Quad Rally Skills for Annette.

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20 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

I personally would recommend Annette or Mercedes as Dancers for Blue Lions over Ashe and Ingrid for reasons mentioned above. They both are naturally magic units, and good support skills like Fortify for Mercedes and Quad Rally Skills for Annette.

I can maybe see tyhe argument for Fortify, but how often are you going to be using those rallies on a Dancer? Rally Res is situational at best and Rally Move comes online too late to be relevant. By the time you get a Dancer, you're past the early parts of the game where +4 strength is at its most impactful. And most importantly, if you're rallying than you aren't dancing. I can imagine scenarios in the early game where having one turn at +4 speed and strength would be more useful than having two turns, but by the middle game, they've largely dried up. What's more, once you pick up Special Dance that is effectively also a triple rally of its own, including rally speed, and comes with the added benefit of also refreshing the rallied unit's turn.

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In my Experience, Ingrid is a great dancer, but you'll really miss out in combat for her. I'd recommend Annette as a dancer, her magic is still strong enough to make her a great combat unit, and she actually enjoys the role storywise. She doesn't make the best dodge-tank, so the sword avoid would be wasted a bit, but you'll have an even better dodge-tank in Ingrid this way.

On that note, you could also just give sword avoid to Felix or Ingrid and not class change them to dancer. Dancers are really strong, but so is an Assassin or Falcon Knight with sword avoid.

(I have no experience with Ashe as a dancer, but that only seems worth it if he's your weakest unit and you only need someone for dancing, but then Flayn might be a better option.)

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Interesting points all of you have made. I mean yea Ingrid has more going for her considering her boons and growths. It's just at least from my experience on Golden Deer at least, Marianne was an effective dancer for me and I had other healers that can replace her like Linhardt or Dorothea. I was thinking initially Ingrid could provide the same results for me. Annette I guess wouldn't be a bad pick since I believe her rallies start to lose it's use by part 2 at some point but she gets the Crusher Hero's relic and I was hoping to maybe try it out as a Wyvern Lord since she gets Lightning Axe at Axe rank C+. Mercie as a Dancer I guess but her sword bane makes it a bit harder for me to see work because I like having Axebreaker on my dancers. I know it's situational at best but I'd rather not have my dancer get hit by an lucky axe attack. Especially since axes have pretty bad accuracy on their own.

Felix I think could be fine with sword avoid if I take him down to the Assassin route. He does have the Sword of Moralta which in a sense is one of his best weapons because it's compatible with his crest. It has 13 might which is pretty good, 75% hit which can be bumped up thanks to battalions and a weight of 9. A 25% chance to crit is okay but not great though. However it's biggest selling point is regenerating HP and combine that with his Aegis shield makes him a well rounded tank assuming Aegis/Pavise activates. This thing restores 33% of his HP since he has the major crest of Fraldarius. Accurate, fast and resilient all at once. But at the same time this would mean he'd get doubled often. But I suppose sword avoid helps with him dodging. Maybe something like Speed +2 + Weight -3 helps out as well. Also unequipping the shield can be a strategic move at times and you give him let's say an evasion ring instead.

It's just that, I guess I convinced myself that having a dancer would be more beneficial than not because I know that you get the Blue Lions Dancer battalion by Azure Moon part 2. While you get the Opera Company battalion as well, you get it assuming you bring Dorothea or Manuela with you to Enbarr, it's the second to last battle in the game. At least they are nice enough to let you equip it by the finale. I was hoping to have a dancer regardless because I want to use some cool strategy involving two units using Dance of the Goddess. In other words, I want to at least refresh my dancer twice and help clear out a big group of enemies by turn 1 or turn 2. Particularly killing Myson which provides Hedgemon Edelgard a huge range boost to her attacks.

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11 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

That's how I feel too. Ingrid has the makings to be a wonderful dancer, but her character is an offensive powerhouse once you get her going. She's the best person to use Luin because she doesn't get a penalty

 

4 hours ago, whase said:

In my Experience, Ingrid is a great dancer, but you'll really miss out in combat for her.

With the right build, a dancer Ingrid isn't gonna miss out on combat as much as you think. While you do give up her player phase for dancing, on the enemy phase she's more or less still the same old Ingrid. By avoid stacking with Sword Prowess, Sword Avo +20, Axebreaker, Evasion Ring and a high avoid battalion like Brigid Hunters, she'll be able to dodge tank pretty much anything that approaches her (unlike a magic-based dancer, which I typically advise against since they end up sitting ducks on the enemy phase). Throw in a Wo Dao+ or Cursed Ashiya Sword+ if you feel like picking that up and she'll have a pretty good crit rate too. Falcon Knight's no doubt better for combat, but Ingrid's still Ingrid, even as a dancer.

Also, anyone with a crest can use Lúin without a penalty, it's not restricted to just Ingrid. You can give it to someone like Byleth or Bernadetta and they can use it just fine.

4 hours ago, whase said:

I'd recommend Annette as a dancer, her magic is still strong enough to make her a great combat unit,

The problem with magic-based dancers is that, for the most part, combat mages like Annette are purely player phase units. And where dancers really want to be dancing every player phase, Annette's magic isn't gonna be seeing that much use. She's also, like you said, not a very good dodge tank or enemy phase unit. So you have to play it extra safe with a dancer Annette, as opposed to a dancer Ingrid who can be left pretty much anywhere and be near-guaranteed to survive.

5 hours ago, whase said:

On that note, you could also just give sword avoid to Felix or Ingrid and not class change them to dancer. Dancers are really strong, but so is an Assassin or Falcon Knight with sword avoid.

This doesn't really seem worth it, tbh. Not only are you passing up a dancer, which is a huge loss, but Sword Avoid on a regular combat unit isn't that useful. A Falcon Knight Ingrid is always gonna prefer lances to swords, and Felix, like other sword-based units, is better off just ditching the sword classes entirely and going the Grappler/War Master route instead. While on the other hand a dancer can basically double the effectiveness of one of your strongest units every turn, which is a much better deal imo.

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Just chiming in here but I think Ingrid would make a better dance than Ashe. I haven't made either of them a dancer, to be honest. But I've done BL twice (once on Normal and once on NG+ Maddening). Both of them seem to suffer in STR for me, which makes me keen on not using them really for melee. But Ashe (as a sniper) is useful with Hunter's Volley & with his intrinsic locktouch ability. Ingrid was a Falcoknight my first playthrough and a Dark Flier my second playthrough and both times she struggled to really do much damage. Her Physic spell was useful and she eventually did get fast enough to be a dodge tank. When I use Dorothea as my dancer, I build her to be a dodge tank for repelling enemies and so that she can be in the middle of the battlefield. So I suppose it might also depend on how you plan to utilize your dancer. 

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Ingrid is too good of a unit to waste on having be a Dancer.  She's probably the best anti-mage unit in the game (which is particularly important on Azure Moon, as others have pointed out), and a very good dodgetank in general to boot.  She can have some damage issues, but they can be mitigated with some planning.

Ashe...really doesn't have anything going for him.  Pretty much anything he can do, other units can do better.  Sure, it's nice if your Dancer has the inside track to Movement+1 from a riding boon, but it doesn't make sense to give up a normally strong unit get that.  The nice thing about Dancer is that it keeps a unit usable regardless of their stats/abilities because the majority of the time you should just be dancing with them.  So there's no reason to spend a unit that is otherwise usable on the class.  Ashe is definite the preferred choice between the two.

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I also recommend Ashe if you’re after one from the Blue Lions. Especially if it’s only for dancing. He gets Physic if that’s something. Ingrid shines late game when Ashe starts dropping off imho. 
 

On 2/17/2021 at 12:00 PM, Barren said:

It's just that, I guess I convinced myself that having a dancer would be more beneficial than not because I know that you get the Blue Lions Dancer battalion by Azure Moon part 2. While you get the Opera Company battalion as well, you get it assuming you bring Dorothea or Manuela with you to Enbarr, it's the second to last battle in the game. At least they are nice enough to let you equip it by the finale. I was hoping to have a dancer regardless because I want to use some cool strategy involving two units using Dance of the Goddess. In other words, I want to at least refresh my dancer twice and help clear out a big group of enemies by turn 1 or turn 2. Particularly killing Myson which provides Hedgemon Edelgard a huge range boost to her attacks.

Just a heads up that the Blue Lions Dancers battalion has one use and gives very little bonuses, even less than the Opera battalion, I think. It kinda screws the unit that has it equipped. Imho on longer maps, or if you’re like me, precious about saving battalion uses for the ‘right moment’ then end up never using them, it can be a bit finicky. Pulling out a successful set up is super satisfying though!

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2 hours ago, ruruo said:

I also recommend Ashe if you’re after one from the Blue Lions. Especially if it’s only for dancing. He gets Physic if that’s something. Ingrid shines late game when Ashe starts dropping off imho. 
 

Just a heads up that the Blue Lions Dancers battalion has one use and gives very little bonuses, even less than the Opera battalion, I think. It kinda screws the unit that has it equipped. Imho on longer maps, or if you’re like me, precious about saving battalion uses for the ‘right moment’ then end up never using them, it can be a bit finicky. Pulling out a successful set up is super satisfying though!

The Opera Company battalion also has one use, but in Azure Moon, it comes at the second to last chapter battle so there is really no time to level it up stat wise. Blue Lions Dancer only decreases strength and magic by 1 but in exchange that unit would get 20 avoid, 3 protection and res as well as 10 charm. I do plan on using it at the right moment like you said. I got use out of the Opera Company battalion during my Golden Deer maddening run where I was able to refresh my dancer and Claude after Claude gets refreshed by my dancer for the first time so he can attack 3 times on turn 1. I am hoping to pull something similar with both dance of the goddess battalions.

For Ashe I was considering a support gambit bot Paladin if I was going to use Ingrid as a Dancer. Because he is unimpressive otherwise. Plus while his speed isn't bad, his charm growth isn't the best. But if I have to, I'll waste stat boosters on him to get him at least 13 charm. I double checked the battles ahead of Azure Moon and like you all pointed out it is mage heavy so Ingrid as a Falcon Knight would be the girl for the job. I guess what I am figuring out is can Ingrid excel as something else aside from flier. In fairness to that, if it ain't broke, no need to fix it.

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Ingrid is typically the best choice in Blue Lions due to giving +3 Atk with both Felix and Sylvain during Link Attacks at A a Rank, has a 3 range spell with Thoron to be range for them, as well as having a Riding Boon for acquiring +1 Mov faster. She's also generally mediocre as a unit due to easily be outclassed by potential recruits, particularly Petra.

I'd also recommend not investing in a Dancer for combat. They can deal some damage with the proper setups, but they're going to struggle to one round tougher enemies comparative to most units when properly invested in. 

And while people may say that Ingrid has a good niche as mage killer, any unit can have a good performance against mages in this route with Sacred Shield. That's a Gambit that makes three units immune to all ranged attacks for a turn, so when combined with Retribution they can easily be taken by most units with no issue. 

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27 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Ingrid is typically the best choice in Blue Lions due to giving +3 Atk with both Felix and Sylvain during Link Attacks at A a Rank, has a 3 range spell with Thoron to be range for them, as well as having a Riding Boon for acquiring +1 Mov faster. She's also generally mediocre as a unit due to easily be outclassed by potential recruits, particularly Petra.

I'd also recommend not investing in a Dancer for combat. They can deal some damage with the proper setups, but they're going to struggle to one round tougher enemies comparative to most units when properly invested in. 

And while people may say that Ingrid has a good niche as mage killer, any unit can have a good performance against mages in this route with Sacred Shield. That's a Gambit that makes three units immune to all ranged attacks for a turn, so when combined with Retribution they can easily be taken by most units with no issue. 

That was my initial thought because while I do like her as a FK combat wise and dodge tanking as well, I wanted to experiment using her as a support with thoron or levin sword like you said and boost felix and sylvain’s attacks. 
 

Ashe while dancer would suit him as well since he’s really unimpressive as the game goes on, I was thinking of trying him out as a stride bot essentially.

Sacred Shield I did not know about, I will definitely try it out 

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37 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Ingrid is typically the best choice in Blue Lions due to giving +3 Atk with both Felix and Sylvain during Link Attacks at A a Rank, has a 3 range spell with Thoron to be range for them, as well as having a Riding Boon for acquiring +1 Mov faster. She's also generally mediocre as a unit due to easily be outclassed by potential recruits, particularly Petra.

I'd also recommend not investing in a Dancer for combat. They can deal some damage with the proper setups, but they're going to struggle to one round tougher enemies comparative to most units when properly invested in. 

And while people may say that Ingrid has a good niche as mage killer, any unit can have a good performance against mages in this route with Sacred Shield. That's a Gambit that makes three units immune to all ranged attacks for a turn, so when combined with Retribution they can easily be taken by most units with no issue. 

Sacred Shield has the problem of being attached to a mediocre battalion (4 atk and -2 mag for a B-rank battalion that can't be used by fliers, ugh) and only lasting one turn and thus eating the action of whoever is using it every turn. It's not a bad thing to stuff on your 12th unit for the last two maps (assuming they received background training in authority), and in particular is useful against that one reinforcement in the final map itself, but having a unit who can play that same role without needing that support is certainly a nice perk.

Petra's excellent but I wouldn't say she fully outclasses Ingrid on Azure Moon. Ingrid gets a head start on Flying rank (Petra won't train it until recruited) so gets Alert Stance+ faster, she actually supports AM-native characters (Petra only supports the mediocre Ashe, though admittedly Dorothea and Shamir are common recruits), and she has higher charm/res (the latter has already been discussed, the former matters for dodge-tanking since gambits are a potential weakness of such builds).

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After looking at Sacred Shield which is Kingdom Heavy Knights, it grants a +4 attack, +15 hit and a +7 protection but a -15 avoid. That's a pretty much red flag for me. I mean I guess it's meant for Dedue or Gilbert in that sense but damn that is a hefty price to pay just to block ranged attacks. Wouldn't Pure Water be better in this case?

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Sacred Shield has the problem of being attached to a mediocre battalion. Having a unit who can play that same role without needing that support is certainly a nice perk.

Petra's excellent but I wouldn't say she fully outclasses Ingrid on Azure Moon. Ingrid gets a head start on Flying rank and supports AM-native characters (while having higher charm/res.

Some units wouldn't mind using a Battalion like that though.Take Dedue for Instance.

Petra's real claim over Ingird over is the fact the she gets Battalion Wrath. That small detail alone makes a huge difference in their late game performance that any advantage Ingird may have before then doesn't really measure up.

Edited by LoneRecon400

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That Dedue is in Paladin and running around with "dies to everything" HP. It's not an awful build, but IMO he'd be better with wings (which prevents him from using Kingdom Heavy Knights) or as a punch-focused class (which really wants more Atk and/or Crit to function properly).

Petra has advantages over Ingrid, for sure, my point was that it's not a one-way street.

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My Blue Lions run as well as planning on who to pick as a Dancer is still a WIP since a lot of you guys have made some good points but this is what I was considering going for here:

 

Byleth

Spoiler

Either War Master (male only) or Bow Knight. As I mentioned before I loved using Byleth as a Falcon Knight. She served me incredibly well and with the right amount of investment she was a star player in my GD Maddening Run. But I do want to see if Byleth can do well in more than just that. I'm willing to try out War Master Byleth since he can be a crit machine that way. And this takes as much investment as it did when I went for Falcon Knight, though he'll have a easier time reaching there since Byleth has a boon in brawling. Though I am curious about Bow Knight Byleth since you do get the Failnaught in this run. I was thinking maybe this can mean that Byleth will have access to a 4 ranged hero's relic that can hit hard. I know I should limit it's use pending on how many Umbra Steels I end up getting but this could be fun. I know that Wyvern Lord is technically the better pick but I think War Master should also be fine. Him as a Bow Knight would most like be nothing more than a lesser version of Leonie or Cyril since they both have access to PBV and Byleth doesn't. Only Curved Shot.

Dimitri

Spoiler

I'm thinking either Great Lord or Paladin with him since I want to try to raise his sword rank so he can use Wind Sweep. I understand that it he might not necessarily need it, but I want him to at least have it as a safety net. I know he's a great Wyvern Lord but I don't know if I really want to grind out his bane in axes for that long. I'm sure you'll point out it's worth it and I can see that, but I do want to try some hit and run play and then have B. Vantage + B. Wrath do it's thing. I am planning on giving him Hit +20 from the archer class since I would like to increase the chances of him hitting things. Plus him as a Paladin where he doesn't necessarily care about his speed would be able to get in position much faster than if he were to remain as a Great Lord. Great Lord at least preserves his speed growth but that's it. 

Dedue

Spoiler

I was reading about his Vengeance build and I'm not sure if I want to do that or just make him a guard adjutant FK. I liked Vengeance Bernie for obvious reasons but Dedue seems to be the bulkier version of that build hits roughly as hard as her. His bane in riding will be a chore to work through, but maybe it would be worth it for him to make his way around some of the maps better. I do want him to dip into soldier early on so he can get Defense +2 which complements his Staunch Shield ability. I know it's a short term thing since maddening mode takes no prisoners even against units that were meant to be walls, but I think he can still at least take as little damage as possible that way. He does go missing for a good chunk of part 2 and that is a detriment for him it honestly depends on how much I actually use him.

Felix

Spoiler

He was a fantastic War Master on maddening mode for me during my GD run but I want to try him out as a Sniper. I know that his crest is somewhat less likely to be a factor since he'll probably want to spam Hunter's Volley, but his good 55% strength growth should be able to still back him up. Plus his improved Dex growth makes his activation rate of Aegis/Pavise thanks his shield more likely. I could also do Bow Knight if you all think that he could be served better in that role due to 8 move. He'll only have Curved Shot and Heavy Draw as his CAs but with Brave Bow his crest activation rate should be a factor again. Not that I can't conserve Hunter's Volley when I have to but still, I thought it was worth mentioning. 

Ashe

Spoiler

I'm still somewhat torn on if I want him to be my Dancer or not but I know stat boosters exists. If I go down this way, this would free up Ingrid on her other more notable roles like Falcon Knight and be a reliable mage killer. Ashe is just unimpressive as we all know as the game goes on. Yes he can do Sniper but others out class him. If I don't chose dancer for him then I could make him a gambit bot Paladin where all he'll mostly do is provide gambit support like stride, blessing, etc. Maybe it might be a wasted spot but if I want him to open up doors and chests when available he's there for the job.

Mercedes

Spoiler

Most likely Bishop or Gremory for her. She could technically make Dark Knight work but honestly with a combo of Physic, Restore and Fortify she'll shine best as a support unit. I might give her the +7 HP stat booster to carve out her niche with Live to Serve as she can take at least one round of combat and have someone else take a hit and then her ability can kick in. Not that I am going to make that happen on purpose but on the off chance that does occur at least she won't die in one round provided it's just one on one. Brawlers and Grapplers still give her hell so that's the extent of her longevity.

Annette

Spoiler

I really want to try her as a Wyvern Lord using her Bolt Axe and Lightning Axe combat art. I have used her as a Dark Flier on my GD run and her rallying was still useful at times. I'm aiming to replicate that but with some kill power behind that. As much as axes are shaky with their accuracy, at least there is a way around i.e having Mercie nearby her and she can perform better. Plus there is always Accuracy Ring too. Yes the Nuevelle Flying Co isn't the best flying battalion out there, but in terms of increasing her magic it's the only choice. Plus Rally Strength + Speed should still suffice even for a little while. This will take some work but I think it can be done. I just don't know if going down Pegasus Knight is worth it for her since she's not that fast to begin with and she'll likely be spamming her Lightning Axe CA anyways. 

Sylvain

Spoiler

I'm thinking of trying him out as a Wyvern Lord as well. He would basically be what Seteth was during my GD run except that I do want to work on his bane in bow and arrow for a bit. His dex growth on not too crazy about so he'll need all the accuracy he can get. Thankfully there is a rank C flying battalion, Azure Moon exclusive called Kingdom Wyvern Co where it grants him +5 attack and crit as well as +15 hit. Sure the battalion itself is very situational since it can only heal status effects but the buffs themselves I think would help him perform better. I could also try on Dark Knight for him if you think he may be better in that role. Of course yes it is easier for him to achieve thanks to his budding talent and he could potentially be a great lure against Snipers. But his magic base stat and growth are not great starting off and he would lack the physical damage even with Swift Strikes so I am leaning towards WL here. But I think DK could be a fun choice for him as well.

Ingrid

Spoiler

She was also someone I considered to be a Dancer as this is in part why I opened up this topic, she has the right boons to basically be a 8 move dodge heavy dancer. Her speed growth is great for this role and she can perform it well. She would also be able to help support Felix and Sylvain with her support being at A rank with them granting them a +3 attack to their +10 hit and avoid. But at the same time, she is really good as a Falcon Knight. If I have her go down this route, then I want to work on her axes a bit so she can improve her strength stats and then jump to PK, WR, then finally FK. I know this path is basic but it really works.

I do plan on using other recruits as well and probably re use a couple of my old team members but this is what I got currently planned. I'm just not a 100% sure yet if this is what I want to do. 

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4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

That Dedue is in Paladin and running around with "dies to everything" HP. It's not an awful build, but IMO he'd be better with wings or a Brawling Class.

Petra has advantages over Ingrid, for sure, my point was that it's not a one-way street.

Being on the ground is pretty advantageous for Dedue. Not only does it give him access to Guard Adjutants so he can get to 1 HP pretty easily, losing Avoid from battalions also means enemies are more consistent in hitting him. You'd be surprised about how shaky enemy hit rates are for even some one as slow as Dedue. Plus, it frees up a flying battalion for other units to use, which are pretty lacking in AM.

I also think you're downplaying just how much of an advantage B. Wrath really is. Like compare a Lategame Ingrid's Performance to a Wyvern with Battalion Wrath. It's difference between one rounding 1-2 enemies on Enemy Phase and wiping out entire sections of enemies. 

Ingrid may have her slight advantages such as a lead in Flight Exp and Resistance, but that difference in combat cannot be understated.  

Edited by LoneRecon400

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