Battle of the Battalions, Endgame: Which Battalion was Best?

[LoneRecon400]

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Well it's a unit as fast as Recruited Petra, and that's more of an indictment of how terrible her combat art loadout typically is. My recruited Petra on Maddening pretty much never got the ORKO on her doubles (flat out couldn't double many enemies of the late game). Also Swift Strikes, where'd you get that? I'm gonna need your definition of "Past the early game". 

Yuck. It takes so much investment already to hit the skill ranks necessary for level 10 and level 20 classes before your units reach those levels. it feels like a waste to set that as a study goal over something harder to raise, like an important weapon rank that they have a bane in, or a movement based skill.

I'm just going to drop this line of questioning because I feel like this topic would get derailed too much trying to bridge the gap between our play styles.

Like Swift Strikes is like gotten by Chapter 8-9, B Authority is hit in that time frames as well on pretty much all my units, and I never had any difficulty with certifying for any class. Recruited Petra in Chapter 6 one rounds as far as Chapter 17 with just a Pegasus Certification while being Strength Screwed.

That just too much of a difference in Personal Experience. So i'm just going to focus on this part.

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I'd rather have Jeralts Mercs than Seiros Brawlers. Disturbance does not compare well at all to the assault troop. The Brawlers give you one damage over Jeralts, true, but is that a fair trade for giving that unit single digit crit chance minimum on all their attacks? And certainly we can agree that 15 avoid is better than 10 avoid, and 75 endurance is better than 30? And don't forget the dozen+ rounds of combat you need for the brawlers to get these stats in the first place. Jeralts should be maxed out by chapter 3.

Disturbance may not compare well, but I'd much rather prefer Fusillade over Assault Troop.

There's no scenario where I'd accepted unreliable crit over guaranteed damage. Crits cannot be planned around, so even when you get them, it may be in a scenario where you would killed anyways. I've even had scenarios where units were killed by defeating an enemy with a crit only for that to open up a new spot for another enemy to attack to them. Low percentage crits shouldn't be considered imo.

+5 avoid is marginal in the face +1 attack I'd say. I have also literally never seen Battalion durability matter outside of battalion skills. Do you really have units who take 60+ damage regularly in a single map?

Battalion Leveling is not really not worth any consideration when you have most battalions go from 1 to max in battle. I don't think it has any role in deciding the quality of a battalion.

Edited September 24, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[haarhaarhaar]

12 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

Even if you are recuriting 6 different units, 5 those are neutral in Authority, meaning it would only take 1 peiord of instruction plus 3 weeks of weekly training to get D Authority. At that low skill level, its irrelevant at how many units you're using, 100 Authority exp an easy benchmark to reach with a lot of gain.

I don't doubt units can get to D Authority fairly quickly - my point was that I have enough units (and am otherwise resource-poor in the early game) to want to equip Jeralt's Mercs, because I want as many decent battalions as possible. If you send out fewer units, you will obviously have less concern about the number of decent battalions you have.

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

For whatever it's worth, the devs seem to think that auto-leveling your Lords to C-Authority at the timeskip will actually mean something, and that giving you Gilbert with (I kid you not) D+ Authority is somehow appropriate for chapter 13

The auto-levelling is actually a net negative imo, because if your lord gets to C-rank but not C+ before the time skip, they lose any authority exp they gained beyond the C-rank mark after the time skip. Learnt that the hard way.

6 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Those level 10 class masteries are SO much more high priority to work on than having one or two more units able to equip your one copy of the Knights of Seiros because they reached C early.

I also feel this way, and again, compounding that with not taking a low-man strategy means that I'm not focusing on raising Authority from D-rank to C-rank until after I'm confident I will get my upcoming certification ranks in a timely manner. Jeralt's Mercs is in my top 10-15 battalions (i.e. the battalions I would regularly deploy) for a solid chunk of that time, because I know I can leave it on a character that takes a lot of hits and it won't retreat quickly/I don't spend so often on replenishing it. 

Quote

Do you really have units who take 60+ damage regularly in a single map?

Yeah, I think that definitely has happened in the early maps? At least, that doesn't seem ridiculous to me.

Edited September 24, 2022 by haarhaarhaar

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:

The auto-levelling is actually a net negative imo, because if your lord gets to C-rank but not C+ before the time skip, they lose any authority exp they gained beyond the C-rank mark after the time skip. Learnt that the hard way.

It's even worse than this; the lords lose extra authority exp towards their next rank regardless of what rank they are currently at (as long as it's at least C). So if you're at B+ authority, you can potentially lose as much as 359 extra authority exp working towards A. Something to keep in mind as Dimitri/Claude approach Chapter 13 and Edelgard/Hubert approach Chapter 11 (the end of it in Edelgard's case, the start of it in Hubert's).

[lenticular]

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

A good point! In a case where I only need to lock 1 enemy down (or two who are adjacent), I'd probably prefer the extra Hit on Disturbance. On the flip side, I've seen enough cases where the two extra tiles from Assault Troop (and, to a lesser extent, the damage) make some substantial difference. So while I still broadly prefer Assault Troop, I can admit some fault in previously treating it as "what if Disturbance, but better?".

With Jeralt's Mercs, part of the value in the Assault Troops gambit is down to the inherent strength of the gambit, but I think that a lot of the value actually derives from the uniqueness. Consider: there are situations where Assault Troops is better than Disturbance and situations where Disturbance is better than Assault Troops. In reality, Assault Troops is probably better in more situations than Disturbance is, but for the sake of argument, let's imagine that they are equally good and there is a 50:50 split of times you want each. Even if that were the case, it is still a point in favour of Jeralt's Mercenaries that they have Assault Troops, because it is a much rarer gambit, with no other sources at all early on. A specific user of Assault Troops will see more action than a specific user of Disturbance simply by virtue of not splitting up the duty between multiple different users.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Another Jeralt's Merc quandry: The Caspar Paralogue. Have we ever held a discussion on the lowest investment way for Caspar to take out the Death Knight on Maddening? I'm sure of one thing already, any valid answer is equipping him with Jeralt's Mercs, right? Because crit stacking with Smash/Killer Axe on Turn 1 is the easiest play and no E or D rank batallion compares for the task. 

I just got to this map and...I can't help but stare at the math problem in front of me:

Spoiler

Chapter 12 recruited caspar is 4 skill points away from B rank axes (I can confirm because I have a save file at the start of chapter 12). And the gap from B to B+ is shorter than the gap of E authority to C authority, considerably more so when you factor in his skill boons and bane. And you may not even have to get him to B+ rank axes in the first place, since his three auto level ups might get him the two Luck he needs to attempt that certification. That's what happened to me. Even if you weren't lucky enough to go from 17 luck to 19 (the probability of this occurring should be 35%), Anna's shop is open and you could buy her luck booster, or try farming for a luck booster at the greenhouse. Whatever strategy we go with, there's a strict time limit. This paralogue opens in chapter 15, but expires in 17 (16 if you're playing Silver Snow!...but I guess that's irrelevant since Caspar in that scenario is not recruited Caspar. He's either a member of our team or living his best life at level 4)

Okay, so our level 26 Caspar is a Warrior now with a killer Axe+. Is it fair to say EVERY playthrough of Maddening has at least one killer Axe+ that our Caspar can borrow? I think so. You get one killer axe for free from Ingrid's paralogue, you can forge one from any iron axe, and so many meta classes are axe using classes, it's a great weapon. He's about to smash the Death Knight, and the exact stats of this battle forecast depend slightly on those auto level ups. My Caspar got 1 strength up over the time skip (it's a 50% growth in his native brigand class), but let's be conservative and go with that. 29 strength as a Warrior. My combat forecast is 18 damage, 96 hit (that's a 100 in 2rn), and 61 crit. That's 54 of the 62 damage we need for the kill. Caspar lacks a special ally adjutant. Str +2 only gives us 6 more damage. Ugh. He needs Death Blow doesn't he? Okay so if we can spare an adjutant slot for a half dozen maps between chapters 12 and-17, then he's got death blow. Problem solved. Blast him on turn 1, then play the rest of the map normally. If you didn't get the crit, divine pulse and play the map until somebody else gets into combat and changes the RN for Caspar. 

Edit: Oh man, I totally forgot about Freikrugel. Forget all this math. Chapter 12 recruited Caspar can smash Death Knight for a crit kill. No warrior certification or class masteries necessary, and even if he gets no stats on his auto level ups from the time skip. All he requires is the +2 strength granted to him in his native brigand class, and Jeralts Mercs

This same Caspar can also do it with Gauntlets, if you certify him as a Grappler instead of a Warrior. Though the battle forecast is way shakier. With death blow, and killer gauntlets+ it's 13 MT, 62 hit, 38 crit. Guess you could move Mercedes into range with nosferatu for another 3 hit (they don't have any support levels) and give Caspar an adjutant for more hit rate, but you need TWO crits instead of one. Unless you also grind out Str +2 and he has one more point of strength than my Caspar does. In that case he'd only need one crit. Furthermore the killer gauntlets+ are something I wouldn't expect an average playthrough to have. They cost about 3-4 times the gold to forge compared to every other killer weapon, and you're never handed a set of killer gauntlets for free either. I have to go with gauntlets in my run, but anybody else should use an axe. 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[LoneRecon400]

58 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Another Jeralt's Merc quandry: The Caspar Paralogue. Have we ever held a discussion on the lowest investment way for Caspar to take out the Death Knight on Maddening?

I've actually done some numbers on that. You can actually get Caspar to one shot him at base Strength assuming he's recurited at chapter 12, but it requires some set up.

Still, I wouldn't put too much stock into it. The setup either requires getting him a source of Rally Strength plus Strength meals or a class mastery, neither of which I'd call low investment. Add on top of that the sizeable chance of failure, its just simply not a practical strategy.

Edited September 24, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[Dark Holy Elf]

Rally Strength is at least easily available with the DLC using one of our lowest-rated gambits: Battleground Cafe from Nuvelle Chamberlain. C authority is basically free on Mercedes even if she's not being used, 10 weeks of passive instruction will get her there. Otherwise sources of Rally Strength I would consider impractical; if you can get the rest of your team over there, then obviously there are a variety of ways to chip the Death Knight for Caspar to finish (gambits, Windsweep, people with Blessing to survive his countercrit or just divine pulsing until he doesn't, etc.).

Speaking of which, without DLC, the other option is to have Mercedes drop Resonant [something] on him. His charm is pretty low, though he has Commander to quarter damage. The specifics depend on Mercedes' own level of investment, but obviously Fiendish Blow and the Authority proficiency skill help. You won't get more than single-digit damage barring heavy investment, but it can help ease up on the Caspar stat requirements just a little.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

23 minutes ago, LoneRecon400 said:

I've actually done some numbers on that. You can actually get Caspar to one shot him at base Strength assuming he's recurited at chapter 12, but it requires some set up.

Still, I wouldn't put too much stock into it. The setup either requires getting him a source of Rally Strength plus meals, or a class mastery, neither of which I'd call low investment.

Rally strength? Oh no, don't approach caspar and mercedes with your other units, that's what spawns the reinforcements. If you're not prepared to mop them all up and/or body block them, they're going to game over you, and since the mission is a Rout, it also just gives you more work to do. I'm more interested in a Turn 1 Death Knight kill when Caspar is recruited at chapter 12, and Mercedes likewise has no investment.

Anyway I've run the numbers too, and it occurred to me that 5 durability off your Freikrugel is the lowest investment answer to the question. A crit from that is sufficient with his base strength and class. Not as high crit chance as the Killer Axe+ approach, but there's no need for class masteries or certifications. Although if you have an Advanced Seal to spare I've demonstrated that Caspar potentially can sometimes certify as one with only one week of axes as his study goal that's another +10 crit for your attempts.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[lenticular]

This is maybe drifting a little too far off topic, but do people typically find themselves doing the Caspar/Mercedes paralogue very often? I think that out of all the times I've played Three Houses, I've only ever done it twice. The combination of the awkward recruitment requirements and the mediocre rewards means that I very seldom bother with it.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

This is maybe drifting a little too far off topic, but do people typically find themselves doing the Caspar/Mercedes paralogue very often? I think that out of all the times I've played Three Houses, I've only ever done it twice. The combination of the awkward recruitment requirements and the mediocre rewards means that I very seldom bother with it.

Me: yes, it is too far off-topic.

Also me: I will forever be bitter at the fact that this map spawns reinforcements before turn 1. You see the enemies on the field, and do your preps accordingly... only to have the game throw way more enemies at you, disrupting whatever strategy you had planned. They seriously couldn't have just shown all those enemies on the prep screen? Anyway, I've actually only done this map once, on SS. While I had previously played AM, I didn't recruit Caspar from out-of-house. As a result, I never got the AM-specific CG of Mercedes, after killing the Death Knight.

To bring it back on-topic, I'm probably going to take a point off (in "Convenience") from the battalions you can get via that paralogue. Since, even in the best-case scenario, you need one out-of-house recruit to access it. And I don't think "full recruitment" is representative of way most people play.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'll put this in a spoiler in case Shanty Pete would prefer we not continue this conversation.

Spoiler

 

17 hours ago, lenticular said:

This is maybe drifting a little too far off topic, but do people typically find themselves doing the Caspar/Mercedes paralogue very often? I think that out of all the times I've played Three Houses, I've only ever done it twice. The combination of the awkward recruitment requirements and the mediocre rewards means that I very seldom bother with it.

I like the Rafail Gem quite a bit (it's a better reward than most post-TS paralogues that aren't Marianne's, in my opinion... though that says little; funny how the pre-TS paralogue rewards are so much better on average), so I usually do it when I have the appropriate characters. I agree that it's in a bit of an awkward spot for recruitment, though - Caspar is a bit annoying to recruit and not very useful (IMO), Mercedes is in a better space for both but she is only the limiting factor on Silver Snow, which is a route I have only done once.

The non-DLC paralogue I do the least is Rhea's. I keep forgetting to deliberately raise her support rank until it's too late.

To keep this on topic, do you have a planned update schedule, @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate?

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

12 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'll put this in a spoiler in case Shante Pete would prefer we not continue this conversation.

 

Nah, it's fine! In fact, it's making me wish we'd gotten a proper discussion of the Hero's Relics. I've always thought of the Rafail Gem as something that's just... there... but there are probably uses for it beyond just "make fliers not weak to bows" that I'm not thinking of.

12 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To keep this on topic, do you have a planned update schedule, @Shanty Pete's 1st Mate?

Right now, I'm planning to kick off one round every Sunday and Thursday. There may be a day of flexibility sometimes, but I'll make that known in such a case.

In any case, I may as well mention that, while Round 1 is still open for feedback and grades, Round 2 will be posted tomorrow evening! It's due to feature the following battalions:

Spoiler

Seiros Holy Monks
Seiros Sacred Monks
Seiros Brawlers
Seiros Magic Corps
Seiros Armored Co.
Seiros Pegagus Co.
Knights of Seiros

I'd rather not kick off formal discussion on these until tomorrow, but feel free to start formulating your thoughts and grades in the meantime!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Here's another way to think about this round and the next round, what batallions are typically part of your shopping list in chapter 3? Because you can acquire a second copy of Seiros Mercenaries and the Church of Seiros Soldiers. would you? And could you imagine if there was a second Jeralt's Mercenaries for sale? Best 1000G I ever spent. 

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also me: I will forever be bitter at the fact that this map spawns reinforcements before turn 1. You see the enemies on the field, and do your preps accordingly... only to have the game throw way more enemies at you, disrupting whatever strategy you had planned. They seriously couldn't have just shown all those enemies on the prep screen? 

Yeah, they did the Thracia thing where they hide 90% of enemies from you during battle preps. Of course in Thracia your own units are also hidden and you don't know where they're starting out on turn 1 without a guide. 

Quote

I've always thought of the Rafail Gem as something that's just... there... but there are probably uses for it beyond just "make fliers not weak to bows" that I'm not thinking of.

It's great for baiting the Death Knight and his +30 Scythe. But...if you've defeated him in that paralogue, that means every later encounter with him replaces the scythe with a brave lance which is probably scarier, Gem or no Gem. 

Also, Seiros Brawlers and Seiros Armored Co are Chapter 8 battalions, not 3. Unless there is some route specific shenanigans going on here, I can at least confirm that to be true on AM. Though in the case of brawlers, that's a bit of a nitpick. It is statistically the same batallion as the Empire/Kingdom/Alliance Brawlers that do become available on chapter 3.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I've always thought of the Rafail Gem as something that's just... there... but there are probably uses for it beyond just "make fliers not weak to bows" that I'm not thinking of.

For me its big use is nullifying crits. In particular, a number of bosses (the dragons, the final bosses, and Jeritza himself in his later appearances, as well as a few other specifics such as the opera house fire orb in Azure Moon, and various Bolting mages) have significant crit rates which Rafail Gem shuts down. Ochain Shield can do this too, but with its high weight it's almost strictly worse (many of these bosses are in a speed range where they might double you if you're weighed down).

Now, are there other ways to deal with these critical threats? Of course (Blessing, Windsweep, stacking def/res/avo, etc.). Can you argue that critical threats aren't that important when you can pulse them away? Sure (though it can be annoying if a lot of other things are going on in that phase). But I still find it a nice option to have.

 

43 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Also, Seiros Brawlers and Seiros Armored Co are Chapter 8 battalions, not 3. Unless there is some route specific shenanigans going on here, I can at least confirm that to be true on AM. Though in the case of brawlers, that's a bit of a nitpick. It is statistically the same batallion as the Empire/Kingdom/Alliance Brawlers that do become available on chapter 3.

Ooh, good catch. I was looking at the list and checking Seiros Armored Co in particular, and thinking "huh that's actually not bad for Chapter 3, why do I literally never use this"; It not being in Chapter 3 explains that!

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Also, Seiros Brawlers and Seiros Armored Co are Chapter 8 battalions, not 3. Unless there is some route specific shenanigans going on here, I can at least confirm that to be true on AM. Though in the case of brawlers, that's a bit of a nitpick. It is statistically the same batallion as the Empire/Kingdom/Alliance Brawlers that do become available on chapter 3.

Well, whaddya know. I just checked my playthrough (NG Normal BE), and as you said - no Seiros Brawlers or Seiros Armored Co. Ironically, the Wiki suggests that the only route in which you can get chapter 3 Seiros Brawlers is BL/AM. But if you can dispute that by experience, then I believe you.

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Ooh, good catch. I was looking at the list and checking Seiros Armored Co in particular, and thinking "huh that's actually not bad for Chapter 3, why do I literally never use this"; It not being in Chapter 3 explains that!

I will update the list accordingly.

This does create a slight predicament - wherein, it would make sense to move these two to a later round. But they're not enough to function as their own round, and they don't hold any thematic similarities with other rounds. Still... you know what? I've decided: these battalions are moving to round 7. As such, we'll consider them with the "DLC/NSO Quest Battalions", and just before the route-specific battalions that can be bought from chapter 8 onwards. It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's the most sensible right now.

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

For me its big use is nullifying crits. In particular, a number of bosses (the dragons, the final bosses, and Jeritza himself in his later appearances, as well as a few other specifics such as the opera house fire orb in Azure Moon, and various Bolting mages) have significant crit rates which Rafail Gem shuts down. Ochain Shield can do this too, but with its high weight it's almost strictly worse (many of these bosses are in a speed range where they might double you if you're weighed down).

I somehow forgot that it nullifies crits, haha. Shows you how much I've made use of it.

11 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

For me its big use is nullifying crits. In particular, a number of bosses (the dragons, the final bosses, and Jeritza himself in his later appearances, as well as a few other specifics such as the opera house fire orb in Azure Moon, and various Bolting mages) have significant crit rates which Rafail Gem shuts down. Ochain Shield can do this too, but with its high weight it's almost strictly worse (many of these bosses are in a speed range where they might double you if you're weighed down).

At least that method feels more honest. In that case, it's clear they're withholding information from the player. But here, the initial enemy loadout they show you is a totally plausible one. Only for it to get ramped up, with the player caught unawares.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Today, we will kick off the second round of the Battle of the Battalions! But first... Results show!

Jeralt's Mercenaries, with 7 ratings, received an average of 7.114

Church of Seiros Soldiers, with 7 ratings, received an average of 4.614

Seiros Mercenaries, with 7 ratings, received an average of 4.857

I will update the original post with a running record of averages. If you're new to this thread and haven't rated them yet, feel free to do so, and I will roll them in at my earliest convenience. And now, without further Dedue...

Round 2: Chumps from the Church of Seiros

Today, we will be covering five battalions - a slightly bigger batch than last time. What do these battalions have in common? Well, each of them can be purchased from the Battalion Guild, starting in chapter 3. And unlike those particular to one nation, they can be hired on any route. I will list them as follows, with their traits spoiler-tagged:

Seiros Holy Monks

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (ALL), can be hired at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Stride

Endurance: 30

Phys: -1

Mag: 0

Hit: +5 / +10

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0

Rsl: +1 / +3

Cha: +1

Seiros Sacred Monks

Spoiler

Accessibility: E-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (ALL), can be hired at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Resonant White Magic

Endurance: 30

Phys: -1

Mag: 0

Hit: +5 / +10

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0

Rsl: +2 / +4

Cha: +1

Seiros Magic Corps

Spoiler

Accessibility: D-rank Infantry

Availability: From chapter 3 (ALL), can be hired at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Group Flames

Endurance: 30

Phys: -2

Mag: +1 / +3

Hit: 0 / +5

Crit: 0

Avo: 0

Prt: 0

Rsl: +3 / +5

Cha: +3

Seiros Pegasus Co.

Spoiler

Accessibility: D-rank Flying

Availability: From chapter 3 (ALL), can be hired at the Battalion Guild for 1200 Gold

Gambit: Assembly

Endurance: 60

Phys: +2 / +4

Mag: 0

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +1 / +5

Prt: 0 / +2

Rsl: +3 / +5

Cha: +5

Knights of Seiros

Spoiler

Accessibility: C-rank Cavalry

Availability: From chapter 3 (ALL), hire at Battalion Guild for 1500 Gold

Gambit: Blaze

Endurance: 60

Phys: +2 / +4

Mag: -1

Hit: 0

Crit: 0

Avo: +1 / +5

Prt: +1 / +3

Rsl: +1 / +3

Cha: +5

Next, I will be providing my own grades for these five battalions. This, too, is spoiler-tagged, to prevent any undue influence:

Spoiler

Accessibility: Seiros Holy Monks and Seiros Sacred Monks are both E-rank infantry, so they get 5. Seiros Pegasus Co. is D-rank, but it's flying, so it gets 5. Seiros Magic Corps is D-rank infantry, so they get 4. And Knights of Seiros is C-rank Infantry, so they get 3.

Availability: Easy - 5 across the board. Even if you're not buying them all right away (money is too tight for that in the earlygame), you still have the option to buy any of them. Any of them can serve - on the right unit - as soon as chapter 3.

Gambit: Seiros Holy Monks offer one of the best support gambits in Stride, so they get a 9. Conversely, Seiros Sacred Monks give you one of the worst support gambits in Resonant White Magic, giving them a 3. Seiros Magic Corps give you Group Flames, a novel but limited gambit that I gave a 4. Seiros Pegasus Co. has one of the least impressive offensive gambits in Assembly... that's worth 2. Finally, Knights of Seiros cover a wide area with Blaze, so they earn a respectable 5.

Stats:

Seiros Holy Monks, at max level, give you +10 Hit, +3 Rsl, and +1 Charm at a cost of -1 Phys. Attack. That's... pathetic, and really undermines any wish you may have to put them on a physical attacker. The Hit and Res aren't enough to salvage them. 1 out of 10.

Seiros Sacred Monks are barely better... but they are better. 1 more point of Rsl, at no cost. It barely matters, but it's technically an advantage. 2 out of 10.

Seiros Magic Corps are really interesting, growing into +3 Mag. Attack, +5 Hit, +5 Rsl, and +3 Charm, at a cost of -2 Phys. Attack. Obviously, this isn't a squad you're running on a physical attacker. The attack boost is nice, and we're starting to see an actual Charm stat. 3 out of 10.

Seiros Pegasus Co. look... really good. +4 Phys. Attack, +5 Avoid, +2 Prt, +5 Rsl, and +5 Charm. That's the biggest offensive boost and charm buff we've seen thus far, coupled with defensive gains. 5 out of 10.

Knights of Seiros, comparatively, inflict -1 Mag. Attack, and have 2 less Rsl, but 1 more Prt. A decent-enough trade-off for a grounded physical attacker. They'll also get 5 out of 10.

Uniqueness: Each of these battalions bring something unique to the table - at least, at the time of joining. Seiros Holy Monks are your only source of Stride, while Sacred Monks are the only providers of Resonant White Magic. While you get a house-specific magical battalion, Seiros Magic Corps are the only ones (on AM/VW) to offer Group Flames right away. Likewise, while you get another Blaze battalion on BE and VW routes, when it comes to AM, Knights of Seiros are the only providers. Finally, Seiros Pegasus Co. We don't even need to look at its gambit to know that it's the only flying battalion you have. Which might not be relevant right away, but will be soon. 2 out of 3 for all of them.

Convenience: Another shared score. Any of them can be bought at the Guild starting in chapter 3. As long as you have the gold, they're yours, my friend. Knights of Seiros are a tad pricier than the others, but not to any degree that would affect their rating. 2 out of 3 for all of them.

Endurance: With 30 durability each, the first three (Seiros Holy Monks, Seiros Sacred Monks, and Seiros Magic Corprs) are at Seiros (heh) risk of fleeing if their leader takes too much damage. They each get a 0. Meanwhile, Seiros Pegasus Co. and Knights of Seiros offer a much more robust 60 durability. That's worth 1 point apiece.

Experience:

Seiros Holy Monks are the kind of battalion with a tremendous impact from day one, but which I find myself still using into the mid- and even late-game. Thanks to them, any unit, regardless of Authority level, can be fielded as a Stridebot. I have no idea what the devs were thinking. 2 points.

Seiros Sacred Monks, on the other hand, get most of their use out of fooling the player into thinking they're actually the Stride battalion. Only to have them realize their mistake after starting the chapter. I never got much use out of them. 0 points.

Seiros Magic Corps can be nice early on for your resident Mage. They offer a rare boost to magical attack, plus the best earlygame magical offensive gambit. They definitely get eclipsed soon, though. 1 point.

Seiros Pegasus Co. are, for a while, the only flying battalion you get. Before others become buyable in chapter 8, that's it (you can get Galatea Pegasus Co in chapter 7, technically, but B Authority is steep). I often find that my resident Pegasus Knight hasn't climbed above D Authority, so she'll be using these troops for a while. 2 points.

Knights of Seiros are... fine. They're one of the few sources (only source, on AM) of Blaze in chapters 3 and 4. It takes some doing to get anyone to C-rank Authority, but once you do, they make a fine accompaniment for any physical attacker. 1 point.

Results:

Seiros Holy Monks: 5 + 5 + (9 * 2) + 1 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 2 = 35 -> 7.0

Seiros Sacred Monks: 5 + 5 + (3 * 2) + 2 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 = 22 -> 4.4

Seiros Magic Corps: 5 + 4 + (4 * 2) + 3 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 1 = 25 -> 5.0

Seiros Pegasus Co.: 5 + 5 + 2 + (5 * 2) + 2 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 29 -> 5.8

Knights of Seiros: 5 + 3 + (5 * 2) + 5 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 29 -> 5.8

Let me know what you think of these battalions in the comments! I'm really looking forward to the community feedback, as ever.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Seiros Holy Monks: 1 stats, 9 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Definitely one of the best battalions in the game. Stride is amazing. There are a few other very good gambits, but no others are available this early. Obviously outclassed later by any other Stride battalion (the stats are wretched) but I find myself still using it throughout the game, every time someone draws into the party with low authority (especially for paralogues).

In a vacuum: 7. Adjusted: 9/10.

Seiros Sacred Monks: 1 stats, 2 gambit. E rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Take Seiros Holy Monks and give it one of the worst gambits in the game instead of one of the best. Funny how that ruins the batallion immediately. Resonant White Magic might have had some niche use on fighters, but it has a negative P.Atk modifier so forget that. Not even availability helps here... who's gonna use this? A second mage at E rank? Nah, Church of Seiros Soldiers is better even then IMO.

In a vacuum: 1.5. Adjusted: 1.5/10.

Seiros Magic Corps: 4 stats, 5 gambit. D rank grounded, Chapter 3.

One of two possible first magic-boosting batallions, meaning it faces less competition than all the physical ones. If you run three mages (I usually do), you WILL use this. With Group Flames, it's slightly better than its main competition for the Lions and Deer too (and about equal to what the Eagles have).

In a vacuum: 5. Adjusted: 6.5/10.

Seiros Pegasus Co: 5 stats, 3 gambit. D rank flying, Chapter 3.

Its stats are right there with the knight batallions for the best available early in the game. Which is nice, since it means you'll naturally level it up. And you want to, because it's invaluable as your first flying batallion. If you use a Pegasus Knight (and you really should), it's this or nothing until Chapter 8.

In a vacuum: 4.5. Adjusted: 8/10

Knights of Seiros: 5 stats, 6 gambit. C rank grounded, Chapter 3.

Solid stats for the time (atk, defences, charm) and a nice gambit. C authority is a bit steep for earlygame, but the payoff is real. Rushing the lord (or Ignatz) to this is not a bad idea.

In a vacuum: 6. Adjusted: 7/10.

[LoneRecon400]

Seiros Holy Monks: 9/10. It gives Stride at E rank by Chapter 3. Nothing more needs to be said

Seiros Sacred Monks: 2/10. About the nicest thing you can say about Resonate White Magic is that its 3 uses, so your neutral authority mages can get 8 extra authority exp if they use all three charges compared to a 1 use gambit. 

Seiros Magic Corp: 5/10. Early filler Magic Battalion that you use until you get something better.

Seiros Pegasus: 7/10. +4 Atk is the best you're going to get by the earlygame, and it keeps up by the midgame as well with flying units.   

Knights of Seiros: 6/10. +5 Charm makes it really good at getting good blaze hit rates in the earlygame, which can be valuable. It gets points taken off for being accessible only really by Authority boon units by the time it's useful, as later on Gambit hit becomes much less of a problem with supports by chapter 5 or so.

Edited September 26, 2022 by LoneRecon400

[SnowFire]

Seiros Holy Monks: 8/10. I was hyping up Jeralt's Mercs as a random battalion to give just-for-their-paralogue recruits earlier; here's the other option where you tank their combat but give them Stride.  I'm not quite on the 9/10 train because the stats are quite trashy and Stride is a reasonably common Gambit on battalions (EDIT: Eh, less common than I recalled.), so you really should upgrade to the other Stride battalions with better stats as soon as you can (and running 2x Stride feels like overkill), but it's still Stride.

Seiros Sacred Monks: 3/10.  The 3 is not so much hyping Seiros Sacred Monks as acknowledging that there are some truly useless battalions out there in the late-joining E-rankers clogging up the low score dungeon, and at least Sacred Monks exists for when E-rank battalions are relevant.  I think I'd use it, briefly, if doing some sort of oops-all-mages challenge that is running 5+ mages, which is very niche but something.

Seiros Magic Corp: 6/10. See LoneRecon, filler Magic Battalion.  You'll use it for awhile then bench 'em, but C3-C8 is still ~5 chapters of potential use.

Seiros Pegasus: 7/10. Yeah, this is pretty great, what with the Attack boost.  If running lots of flyers, can stay relevant for a long time due to a paucity of flying battalions.  The +Res isn't bad either.

Knights of Seiros: 7/10. Just strong stats all-around for a frontliner.  Usable into the midgame.  Blaze hits a nice huge area.  Hurt by DLC introducing various really strong C-rank battalions, so it's more like a 6.5 in DLC and a 7.5 in no-DLC runs, so 7 overall works.

Edited September 26, 2022 by SnowFire

[lenticular]

Seiros Holy Monks: 10/10. Maybe a hot take, butI think this might be the single best battalion in the game? Possibly? And I feel weird saying that because its stats are obviously completely bobbins. They are better than nothing, but only just barely. And yet, this is probably the single battalion that I have equipped in more maps than any other. Obviously, the big advantages here are the gambit and the availability. I don't think I need to convince anyone that Stride is a fantastic gambit, and this has by far the best availability of any of them. Not only does it come in much earlier, but the others are all contingent on a specific route or character (Blue Lions, Sylvain, and Anna). Since we aren't assuming a "recruit every last one of them!" playstyle, it's easy to imagine runs that don't have any other source of Stride.

I also want to make the case that the stats aren't actually that big of a problem here. Sure, it would be nice if they were better, but I find that I really don't care that much. For me, the best unit to carry Stride is a healer. There are a few reasons for this. First, it's often advantageous to use Stride on the first or second turn of a battle. Your units are guaranteed to be clumped up, meaning it can hit a lot of targets, and being able to quickly reposition early can completely change the way you can engage the enemy. It's also generally unlikely that your healer is going to be needed on turn 1, so you aren't losing an action by having them use Stride. Second, a Stride user is often going to end up lagging behind the rest of your army, so it's beneficial if they can still be useful even when they are lagging behind. The majority of healers are going to have Physic, meaning that they can still perform excellently even when stuck way in the rear.

So, if I'm putting my Stride battalion onto my healer, do I actually care about its stats? Well, no, not really. My healer just isn't seeing very many combats, and nothing that a battalion can  do is going to make them a more effective healer. Giving them a battalion with good stats will upgrade their offense from "chip damage that I don't use very often" to "slightly better chip damage that I don't use very often" and will upgrade their defenses from "wet tissue paper" to "damp tissue paper". This isn't nothing, of course, and there will doubtless be turns where an extra few points of magic attack could make all the difference, but those turns are few and far between.

Overall, this is the only battalion that I feel remains relevant for the entire game. I'm almost certainly using it in Chapter 3, and there's a decent chance I'm still using it by the time I get to endgame.

Seiros Sacred Monks: 2/10. On the other hand, these are just terrible. Awful stats and an awful gambit combine to make an awful battalion. With the free battalions from last time, plus all the other battalions that become available in chapter 3, it's possible to get enough for your full squad to have one without having to touch this one, which you absolutely should do because all of the others are better than this. About the only good thing to say here is that Resonant White Magic is pretty rare, so if you do feel that you need it for some reason -- maybe a challenge run of some sort? -- then this is a decent place to get it. (Edit: raised my score from 1 to 2, in consideration of the possibility to use this to train Authority.)

Seiros Magic Corp: 6.5/10. Decent enough for the time you get it, falls off before too long, but you've got some decent use out of it by the time you drop it. Gets extra credit for being a magic battalion, which means it isn't competing with many other options. Gets further extra credit for having Group Flames, the best of the three Group Magic gambits.

Seiros Pegasus Co: 7.5/10. The same first sentence as I said for Seiros Magic Corp applies equally here, except that in this case, it is literally the only flying battalion you have until at least doing Ingrid's paralogue in chapter 7, and more likely until the battalion guild expands in chapter 8. For this reason alone, it's hard to imagine a run where I don't get at least some use out of this. But even beyond that, the stats are strong enough that I'd probably want to run this even if I didn't have a Pegasus Knight. The fairly poor gambit is a knock against them, but a fairly minor one.

Knights of Seiros 6.5/10. For the Golden Deer and Black Eagles, this is in direct competition with the Alliance/Empire Knights that become available at the same time, and I think comes off slightly worse against them, which means I'm not as likely to use this. So this rating is for Blue Lions, where it's the only early source of Blaze, since the Kingdom Knights get Assault Troops instead for some reason. And over there, it's not bad. Exactly when you have units passing through C authority will vary, but it's usual to have at least someone get there before C rank battalions are readily available. It's also usable again when you have a bunch of people all at or around C rank at once, at which point it becomes just one of several options that you're getting some use out of.

Edited September 26, 2022 by lenticular

[haarhaarhaar]

Seiros Holy Monks - 7/10

Yeah, sure, all hail Stride I guess. It certainly isn't worse than Jeralt's Mercs, and I will be running it for the early game. However, I just don't run Stride all that often unless I'm desperate for an early clear, and I'd happily replace it with any other Stride battalion when I do run it. So I guess I'm not aboard this particular hype train, although I acknowledge how useful early Stride can be.

Seiros Sacred Monks - 5/10

Disappointed but not surprised that nobody rates Resonant White Magic. Yeah, the battalion stats are crap, but Heal for up to 6 units at a time when you probably don't have Physic? You can probably rush Physic and get it not too much later than this, but being able to heal a group of bunched-up allies (i.e. in bottlenecks, which happen to me a lot in the early game) is stellar. At worst, it's three extra heals for a mage. The Authority exp you get from using it properly is a nice boost (although hardly important in the long run). The battalion probably isn't good enough to make it past the early game, but it still deserves plaudits for being your most effective average heal for an awkward period in the game, and providing early availability for the only effect (apart from Fortify) to heal multiple allies at all. 

Seiros Magic Corp - 5.5/10

First ranged gambit, first battalion to boost magic attack. Definitely gets selected early on, and every bit of magic helps, especially for Frozen Lance builds/Lysithea which are so so good early on. Doesn't get a 6 because it isn't my first choice for very long, but it still hangs around for a bit.

Seiros Pegasus Corp - 6.5/10

It's a strong battalion for this stage of the game, and of course flying matters. I'm guaranteed to run at least one or two fliers, so it has a lot of staying power too. It loses out to Jeralt's/Stride only because I don't have any strong memories of it, but a very solid battalion nonetheless.

Knights of Seiros - 6.6/10

Being available in time for your first C-rank Authority character automatically elevates the battalion above average. But the 6.6 comes from how highly I rate Blaze (specifically its area of effect). As pointed out elsewhere, it isn't the only source of Blaze on most routes, but I wouldn't say no to having two Blaze gambits if I have frontliners who can equip those battalions. Blaze sees use for me for a while, and there's a prolonged period where all my units are moving into/through C-rank authority, so for me it's a smidge better than Seiros Pegasus Corp, hence the awkward 0.1 score difference between them.  

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Disappointed but not surprised that nobody rates Resonant White Magic. Yeah, the battalion stats are crap, but Heal for up to 6 units at a time when you probably don't have Physic? You can probably rush Physic and get it not too much later than this, but being able to heal a group of bunched-up allies (i.e. in bottlenecks, which happen to me a lot in the early game) is stellar. At worst, it's three extra heals for a mage. The Authority exp you get from using it properly is a nice boost (although hardly important in the long run). The battalion probably isn't good enough to make it past the early game, but it still deserves plaudits for being your most effective average heal for an awkward period in the game, and providing early availability for the only effect (apart from Fortify) to heal multiple allies at all. 

I always used to grab this to put on someone, since it sounds like it should be decent, but I found that I just never ended up using it. Probably this is a playstyle thing, but I found that I just don't end up with a group of bunched up units who require healing. And you say that at worst it's three extra heals for a mage, but I also find that by the time I get to chapter 3, I'm never running out of healing, so that worst case is a bad one for me.

I will admit that I had never thought of the possibility to use it to train Authority, and that is a potential niche. Though, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't you limited to only using this on an injured unit? In which case, doesn't that effectively mean that you aren't healing with a spell, and therefore you're just trading potential Faith gain for potential Authority gain? Sure, there may be times when this is a winning trade, but I'm generally more concerned with rushing to C in Faith than in raising Authority. Still, it is something, so I think I will raise my score a little.

[Dark Holy Elf]

3 hours ago, haarhaarhaar said:

Disappointed but not surprised that nobody rates Resonant White Magic. Yeah, the battalion stats are crap, but Heal for up to 6 units at a time when you probably don't have Physic? 

You can first use this battalion in the Magdred Way battle (assuming we do no aux fights in Chapter 3), by which point your units have had 5 weeks to train. Just keeping Faith as one of Linhardt's/Marianne's two goals gets them Physic by then. Mercedes could have it by now too, but it will require some active instruction and combat use of Heal (you need 80 additional points on Maddening). Now, granted, Dorothea(/Hapi) won't have it yet, and Hubert/Annette/Lysithea/Lorenz(/Constance) never will, so it's a bit more useful for them... except that over half of those names have an authority boon, so are less likely to be at E where this battalion has most use. And anyone who does have an E rank and doesn't mind the Atk debuff... well, they're already a prime candidate for Stride.

Overall I agree with lenticular. Might kick it up have a point, but I still find it has very little worth.

[haarhaarhaar]

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

And you say that at worst it's three extra heals for a mage, but I also find that by the time I get to chapter 3, I'm never running out of healing, so that worst case is a bad one for me.

Fair point - I was thinking mainly of Chapter 5, which can run long enough that healing is an issue. 

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

I always used to grab this to put on someone, since it sounds like it should be decent, but I found that I just never ended up using it. Probably this is a playstyle thing, but I found that I just don't end up with a group of bunched up units who require healing.

2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

You can first use this battalion in the Magdred Way battle (assuming we do no aux fights in Chapter 3), by which point your units have had 5 weeks to train. Just keeping Faith as one of Linhardt's/Marianne's two goals gets them Physic by then. Mercedes could have it by now too, but it will require some active instruction and combat use of Heal (you need 80 additional points on Maddening). Now, granted, Dorothea(/Hapi) won't have it yet, and Hubert/Annette/Lysithea/Lorenz(/Constance) never will, so it's a bit more useful for them... except that over half of those names have an authority boon, so are less likely to be at E where this battalion has most use. And anyone who does have an E rank and doesn't mind the Atk debuff... well, they're already a prime candidate for Stride.

Physic is a more adaptable and targeted tool than RWM, no doubt. And if you only need to heal one unit, then use Heal if you can reach with it. For RWM to be a better action use than either of these, you have to have at least two ally units in the 3x2 block of spaces forward of your gambit user, and one must be in the centre of the back row. I can definitely imagine that this situation happens rarely for certain play styles. But I almost always encounter situations of this kind in Chapters 4-6, which in my experience basically force bottlenecks where your units are bunched together. In these scenarios, healing multiple units with one action is literally the difference between success/failure for that turn, or the use of a Divine Pulse or not. Even where bottlenecks aren't forced, the efficiency of healing multiple units at once could save you several actions (either vulnerary uses or multiple Heals).

I normally equip this battalion up till Chapter 6, regardless of whether everyone is at D-Rank Authority or higher or whether I already have a Physic/Stride user or not, because the gambit still provides relevant and occasionally crucial support. Chapter 7 on, the siren call of battalions with decent stats is too difficult to resist, and there are more ways to deal with bottlenecks that do arise. But yeah, the niche is valuable enough for the time it arrives for me to happily give the 5/10.

Edited September 26, 2022 by haarhaarhaar

[Bylift]

I am never going to convince people who disagree, but I think Jeralt's mercs are a 8/10.

You get them for free immediately. They are E rank so anyone can use them now matter how early in the game or untrained the unit is (see: Felix with Authority bane). Assault troop is very useful. 15 extra AVO is solid. The 75 durability is usually a B-rank stat. +3 atk ain't bad either. JM stays useful for a very long time. I love it.

Just my opinion. don't @ me 😜