Aizen Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You should all read my posts in a Kermit the Frog voice. It's providing me endless amusement. Anyway, this may sound strange but I'm not really finding Plutonium that bad right now. He hasn't done anything horribly wrong as far as I can tell, and the wagon on him feels kind of opportunistic. If it makes you feel better, I'll vote the best read I have ##Vote: Pluto This strikes me as bad as he had to be threatened into voting, especially with no explanation onto the largest wagon. ##Vote: Scumnori I'm getting the feeling that one of Robin, Bear or FLC are scum right now, based off of their interactions. Not too sure with which one yet, though. Someone want to explain the case on Pluto again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Kirisame Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 gist of pluto case is him bringing in meta where it doesn't belong to get away with having weak content. i've went over this multiple times, some people voting him have other reasons. related: it's pretty frustrating that he's magically disappeared now that deadline is approaching. pluto, your wagon is currently the biggest, so claim when you get back i personally don't think scumnori needing me to bully him into voting means much when town should've been voting at that point and townnori wouldn't have wanted me to mislynch him either what are your thoughts on okarin and navo? ftr i'm thinking okarin looks a lot better about his defensive posts, which strike me as tonally town - it's not enough for me to actually townread him since he needed to be wagoned to start posting again, but i don't want to lynch him today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizen Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I suppose that was grasping at straws, but I'm still a little skeptical about Pluto's case for being scum. I'm just saying it looks awfully easy to jump on the largest wagon and not even a few words of justification. My vote stays there for now. I don't really remember much of Navo. Just him defending himself saying that he was busy, which is understandable. Not much on Okarin either, but him not posting for a while might just have been about timezones. I'm still wondering why the guy before me subbed in and didn't say anything to be honest. I might actually be around for phase end, but I'm doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 He say's he was active lurking but states he's just looking at things he should actually respond to. I don't see this as scum. I see this as him just lurking playstyle. He isn't actively posting random posts that make it super lurking. So far all 3 of his posts have stuff that add his thoughts to the town and we know what he's thinking. Also it seems he obviously comes from a slower based mafia forum. I really don't see him as active lurking, I just see him as lurking. Two of his posts were pretty vague, and the third one had content after we asked it from him. I understand that he can have an active lurking playstyle, but I ask him to explain his thoughts just like his third post from now on, instead of lurking and not posting them (or posting them, but not getting into details). States his thoughts, I feel he might be tunneling but that's something I could be accused of doing as well at the moment I guess. But as far as I see it he's lurking and his 4 posts all contain info beneficial to the town. I would not call this active lurking scum. The only thing I don't like about him at the moment is his random change in Okarin. He swapped from a leaning town read to runner up on his top scum list. Where did that swap come from exactly? You feel he might be tunneling, yet you let this get by you as 'hey, he doesn't look scummy, what is wrong with him'. Also, it seems like you are buddying with him. Your last uncontributive actions don't help your case too. Unvote ##Vote: Navo I was going to make a longer post, but chrome just decided to ruin my day. Just going to make a few pointed remarks before addressing FLC's latest post calling me a beginner, as this has taken way too long already. -Starting with FLC's post here. I agree that in some cases emotion is a null tell, but your liberal use of ATE to call people idiots and try and justify the incident during the first 3% of the day phase is not a null tell. You also fail to recognize that generally speaking, building a case against a player is not an act of arrogance, but an act of contribution. More on the 'never played with you deal' later. -Onto Balboa's post immediately afterwards. I'm at an impasse here, with regards to the RVS section, as if he seriously believes that those votes were intricately reasoned, I can't help him. I am going to temporarily abandon this line of attack though, if only because it's distracting me from Clover right now. His Kevin anecdote later on, however, is horrible in the sense that equating any overreaction as egregious as this one to be town-like is lunacy. Kevin isn't a very good example for overreactions, either, just as a side note. -I think Navo might be a bit misguided in his suspicion of RMS, because the sock rocker's content has be fairly solid in my eyes, much like the content of Moonrise. -Speaking of moonrise, I'm just confused by what I perceive to be a defense before my wall, which is why they're null. As for why I don't like to talk about town reads, I think they're a waste of time, seeing as one can generally deride them from the player's actions. All they tend to do, in my eyes, is paint a target on the 'more clean' members of the village. What do you mean by misguided? I'm used to outing town reads, but you guys have a point. I formulated my opinion as I went through the thread, and I came to the conclusion that you were scum aligned. Okay, sounds like a good opportunity to do this (I hope Elie won't be yelling at me for that): -Stop Fishing: You instantly throw an accusation at someone less than 2 hours in, incidentally after being voted by said someone. This is uncalled for, and gives the sense that you are being defensive. OK, so maybe we chalk it up to angry townie. *** -Maybe one day you'll not be an idiot ... learn why tunneling is a shitty strategy: ATE by calling robin an idiot, and you use another accusation to accompany the insult. Less than 2 hours into the game. This is egregious if one considers the previous statement, and goes to further prove that you're defensive. Town has no motivation to be throwing around these accusations so freely and so early in the game. They have no motivation? FLC saw something wrong within his argument and replied. His tone aside, his post -had- content and a point. It's just his way of making a stand. -"Town day vig would have no reason to shoot that early" post: First two sentences are relatively sound. ATE and a tunneling mention here, as Robin is apparently tunneling because his "fucking bluff" was called out, and the people voting FLC are called Lazy. Firstly, there was no bluff, so the post is nonsensical. Wait, do you think Robin is really a vig? This is the bluff he was referring to... Secondly, you did no calling out of any sort, so you're plain lying right there. All you threw were heavy-handed accusations and insults, which, even if one is agitated, can hardly be called town-motivated. Once again, you are calling him for insults and because of his tone. What about his argument? What about his point? Thirdly, you're now accusing people on your wagon with pretty-blatant RVS votes of being "lazy", which has the side-effect of shifting some attention off of you. Actually, he called them lazy because they voted without much further explaining. Just like Scumnori did with Robin, saying 'lol don't be stupid *vote*'... Or this is how I see it. -"Overly serious is a null read" post: This is where I think people start giving Clover a pass because of his lack of a "fucking sense of humour" and his "nasty temper". The "Overly serious" line is his attempt to justify his horrible reaction, which should not be excused due to the gravity of the accusations he hurled, and adds AtE to, IMO, try and shame us into thinking we're 'wrong' because we don't play 'seriously'. The rest of the post aims to push Caliban into focusing on other people. The 'reasoning' is that it helps the game become less null, but keep in mind that it is 14-15 hours into the phase, so it is at the least ridiculously hasty to start prodding other people, and at its' peak, it's defensive play. ... I have to say it is a good point, also because I thought of it as an attempt to switch targets. -"All I see are badly-founded accusations" post: You accuse your accusers of badly-founded accusations, citing "no sense of humour is a null tell" (justifying your actions on p1), and then you dodge Moonrise's question by rambling about dayvig. Followed by more inactivity misdirection. This is incredibly defensive and suspect play, just for dodging Moon's question and yet again trying to shame people out of focusing on you. I still think it's because they had weak justifications, but that's okay. (rest of his post) -Elaboration: There are more obvious targets for that reasoning, so the motivation behind this post is to put my RVS vote in a bad light. It's pretty evident, if one considers Spongebob, that this is OMGUS, and you're trying to hide it. *** -"Perhaps you are part of the problem" post: This is once again redirecting the attention to anyone but you, along with a side-heaping of vilification of the perceived inactives, It's not null because the age of the game is hilariously young for actions like this, so if it's townsided, I'm definitely from a different mafia age. *** -Semantics post: You're telling people to dismiss your critic ("blathering idiot", to be precise. Hello ATE!), because he's focusing on you and not "interacting with other people'. Which means diverting attention from you, which is what you've been doing all along, which is scummy. *** -Slightly Better post: I don't see how day 1 activity is related to day 3 activity, nor how d3 activity is reason to prod players in early d1. The third section is him trying to once again justify his actions in early-d1. I think that the best move would've been to admit that you freaked out to an absurd extent, and try to correct your play from there. Regardless, this is the first 'null' post so far. *** -"Less ego, actual scumhunting" post: This implies that backing off of you is 'scumhunting' to some extent, and the rest of the post is about justifying his 'prodding'. Which is normally sound townposting, but , with all due respect, this is still less than a day IRL into the actual game, which makes it sound a little opportunistic. People are inactive because they have different lives to lead, and pushing onto them this early for 'inactivity' and being 'lazy' strikes me as, once again, an attempt to move the spotlight off of yourself. This could be considered null, as well. I got to say I agree with you partially. I don't see him as badly as you do, but your arguments make sense, although I can see your tone is more intense when referring to FLC. More people need to be voting for Navo or Okarin, what seriously what Also, Bear, writing a lot is not the same as tunneling. Nobody cares if you write an essay on each person you think is the scumteam. People are saying you're tunneling because you're writing essays each time for FLC and your suspicions on everyone else are one-liners. It is only natural to focus on your main scum reads. At least he's got opinions about the rest of the players, and he gives us his insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Navo, can you explain why you think I'm scummy? I don't think you've even mentioned me up to this point. First, stop appearing only when people call you. Seriously. Inactivity is understandable, but posting only to justify and defend yourself is terrible. I suppose that was grasping at straws, but I'm still a little skeptical about Pluto's case for being scum. I'm just saying it looks awfully easy to jump on the largest wagon and not even a few words of justification. My vote stays there for now. Are you afraid of looking bad after voting someone who's got a lot of people voting him, and thus you don't want to be called for an opportunistic hammer vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 When I said more people need to be voting for them, I meant "more people need to be voting for the major wagons" instead of splitting up the votes. I think I was assuming at that point that a majority was required for a lynch since that's how the last few games have been. For the second bit about Bear, it was mainly explaining why people are saying he's tunneling- I didn't say what he was doing was good or bad, just that it was focusing heavily on FLC and all his other insights were very shallow in comparison (although apparently that was his intention, so eh) Navo, my main reason for finding you scummy is because you've done very little except try to push a lynch on Scumnori for a really shitty reason. Have you realized yet that your entire case against him (or at least whatever you've explained in thread) consists of him first saying that his vote for Robin was RVS, and then saying that his reason for voting Robin was "lol you're st00pid"? You say that this is a contradiction, but it's not- RVS doesn't need to consist of votes pulled from a RNG, they can also be votes made for really small and irrelevant reasons as he claims his Robin vote was. And even if it was a contradiction it's a really small one and hardly anything to base your entire case against him on, this far into the phase. I suppose a very small reason for my vote against you is that your activity has been really sporadic and lurky, yes, but mainly it's because you've done almost nothing even in your limited activity, and you seem to show up just when people are starting to wonder where you've gone. You're trying to push this lynch on Scumnori for reasons shittier than those you outline against RMS. Your points against RMS are not something I agree with but at least they show more depth of thought than your Scumnori case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Tesla. has been replaced by des Rois. Also, 8.5 hours remaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 When I said more people need to be voting for them, I meant "more people need to be voting for the major wagons" instead of splitting up the votes. I think I was assuming at that point that a majority was required for a lynch since that's how the last few games have been. For the second bit about Bear, it was mainly explaining why people are saying he's tunneling- I didn't say what he was doing was good or bad, just that it was focusing heavily on FLC and all his other insights were very shallow in comparison (although apparently that was his intention, so eh) Objection! Votals: Bear_Knight (1): Spongebob Scumnori (2): plutonium95, Moonside, Okarin (2): Navo, Bear_Knight plutonium (5): RockMySocks, Robin's Egg, Okarin, Scumnori, Balboa (L-2) Navo (2): Caliban, FourLeafClover Voteless: Tesla. Time left in phase: 17 Hours. 7 to Hammer. Hammer = instalynch Tie @ phase end = nolynch Leading in votes by phase end = lynch Since when are Navo and Okarin the biggest wagons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I left out Plutonium by accident (I even meant to mention that in my last post and forgot again >_>). I didn't include Scumnori because while he might have had the same amount of votes as Navo/Okarin, a lot of the people on the Plutonium wagon seemed to be having Navo/Okarin as their second and third choices, with Scumnori behind. So even though he had the same amount of votes as the other two, not as many people had him in their list of top 3 scumspects, so I gathered from that that it was unlikely he would be lynched over the other three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Nijika Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Wow, oh my goodness, massive walls of text. Can we please try and cut some of those down? Either link to the posts, or chop up your posts into multiple posts, or condense your thoughts into smaller sentences? It seriously is really hard to read all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refakitty³ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Greetings. My name is Leonmitchelli Galette des Rois (of which my name was unfortunately shortened to the posterior end), and I will be the one replacing in. Now that we have acquainted ourselves, allow me to read the thread. I have been informed the former one I have replaced has produce no content whatsoever. This problem will be shortly remedied. *cracks knuckles and gets to work* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizen Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Are you afraid of looking bad after voting someone who's got a lot of people voting him, and thus you don't want to be called for an opportunistic hammer vote? No. I just don't vote for people who don't look scummy to me when they're close to being lynched. And with that I'm going to sleep. Good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisa Kirisame Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 ##dayvig: the one with the animu avatar so uh moonside please tell us why you felt it necessary to drop scumnori's wagon right after bahamas made him a viable lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I left out Plutonium by accident (I even meant to mention that in my last post and forgot again >_>). I didn't include Scumnori because while he might have had the same amount of votes as Navo/Okarin, a lot of the people on the Plutonium wagon seemed to be having Navo/Okarin as their second and third choices, with Scumnori behind. So even though he had the same amount of votes as the other two, not as many people had him in their list of top 3 scumspects, so I gathered from that that it was unlikely he would be lynched over the other three. On to the next question then. Why don't you take your own advise and vote for Plutonium, then? He's the most likely player to get lynched, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 @wordiness: I'm not exactly efficiency-running this mafia game. I'll try to be better from now on, since I don't need to cite everything by one of the more frequent posters any more. @FLC: If you flip town overnight, I'll have more pressing matters to be concerned with. Such as my scumdar being horribly broken and the impending threat of a bad cause of rope around the neck. But if I do get away from those, there are always a few more people to push. Like Navo, Balboa, and Okarin, Speaking of the devil, I'm responding to Okarin's post 177 here. First off, an aside is a side note. I meant nothing more than that. Secondly, thanks for the wall, but I asked you why you ignored Caliban's statement, as in, why you chose not to acknowledge it. That's generally suspciousThank you for explaining your actions a bit more in that regard, though. @Panties in a knot: Yeah that's clearly why I move on to go back and attack FLC about one post after calling your dodge. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I wasn't focusing much on you at the time. See the earlier response to Caliban wrt that. Side note: Love the sarcasm and ridicule. Try to keep to reality, though. List Posting: I made a few comments, and was not asked to elaborate much beyond that. Furthermore, you're ignoring the fact that I held a scum read on Balboa, a read I'm still considering based on gut at the moment. As for the scumnori post, maybe if you'd read Caliban's quote: On a different note, I am really not a fan of how Scumnori came back, hand-waved basically everything against him in a one-liner, and then left again. You'd understand why I said what I did. As you stated, he only has two posts at that point in time, and the thing is, his second post's "I do stuff irl" can be and was read as a justification for his whole random reasonless vote and departure earlier on in the game. Also, scumhunting is a universally contested concept, as your later remarks prove.@next two posts being nothing but ISO-based: Aside: I first thought this was directed entirely at me, but then I got to the @ symbol. @Wizard:I mean as in like arguments within a little bandwagon, not within a faction (town/scum). I understand that I misinterpreted that horribly. I think Okarin just got a bit more suspicious with that latest post. I could go on a rant about how his statements about my argument are justifiably false and the sheer irony of calling my stated reads 'half-assed', but I'd like to instead point out that he chose to attack plutonium and I over defending himself, which resulted in his pretty blatant snub of Caliban's ISO post. Going to be gone for the next 6 hours or so, but, just want to say that I think Clover just misrepresented my argument, and uh Balboa looks worse for ignoring Okarin's dodge, not withstanding the choice to take votes 10 hours into the game as entirely serious. I'll elaborate when I get something other than a tablet to post from (ie, later). How are these ISO-based when I'm directly responding to them? Please check your facts before you throw accusations like that. As for the 'echoing Caliban' accusation, if I'm echoing the arguments, it's unintentional. If I'm citing him, it is intentional. As for the scumhunting thing, I don't believe that you were as I mentioned at the time, but I'm going to chalk that up to scumhunting being subjective. @Half-assed reads remark: IIRC your argument as to why I'm scum is just an echo of others (hmm am I seeing a pattern here?), but I don't think you've given any of your views on other scumspects. Quit tunneling man, and give out your opinions on other players in the game. I mentioned it because was calling you on bolded which is incompatible with with the half-assed comment. Which could be called stupid/hypocritical."All in all line is actually hypocritical, seeing as you literally are misrepresenting my argument by discrediting my longer rambles by calling them 'tunneling', you once again ignore the fact that I made the first remark about how you didn't directly respond to Caliban's post (borrowed reasoning), and I'm fairly certain I haven't been doing any quote mining like you have done with the attack on my "Sadly, ..." line. So, yeah. Vote remains, etc etc, time to talk about other things, by popular demand. I'm going to work on another post now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 a) He's already several votes above his competitors and a hammer isn't actually necessary for a lynch. b) While Plutonium is the most likely player to get lynched, I don't think most of the people on that wagon would be too averse to switching to Navo/Okarin if they had to (if Pluto claimed Doc or something, I dunno). On the other hand several of those people seem to be saying that they no longer think Scumnori is all that bad. So my vote on Navo/Okarin isn't as useless. c) I think I mentioned earlier that while Plutonium has certainly done some scummy things, I think he has done a bit better than Navo. In addition to this I have a bit of a gut feeling that he really is newbtown, so I'm kind of waffling. I'm also not really sure why you're pushing this minute thing so hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 a) He's already several votes above his competitors and a hammer isn't actually necessary for a lynch. b) While Plutonium is the most likely player to get lynched, I don't think most of the people on that wagon would be too averse to switching to Navo/Okarin if they had to (if Pluto claimed Doc or something, I dunno). On the other hand several of those people seem to be saying that they no longer think Scumnori is all that bad. So my vote on Navo/Okarin isn't as useless. c) I think I mentioned earlier that while Plutonium has certainly done some scummy things, I think he has done a bit better than Navo. In addition to this I have a bit of a gut feeling that he really is newbtown, so I'm kind of waffling. I'm also not really sure why you're pushing this minute thing so hard? Because it seems as if you are trying to convince people to lynch Navo/Okarin, based on your own insights of them. And every detail counts, even if it is such a small one, like this. You're clear for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Isn't that the reason we post? To try to convince others to lynch the people we find scummy? And then we give evidence for why they are scummy to back us up in our efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Isn't that the reason we post? To try to convince others to lynch the people we find scummy? And then we give evidence for why they are scummy to back us up in our efforts. 'Hey look vote them because they are the most likely to get lynched' is something I don't like. Specially when they only have two votes on each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Okay, that can be something for me to work on in future games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refakitty³ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Well well well, It is somewhat alarming to discover I have replaced in during Deadline, and all these text walls are not making it easier to digest this game and pick some reads. You will have to excuse me for a bit longer, I am still in the midst of reading this tale of townies. Page 9 of 11, if you must know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Nijika Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 des Rois: I think I'm going to enjoy having you in the game. Thanks for putting in an effort and also letting us know where you are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Elimination Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 @Bear_Knight: I've answered the reasons behind why you find me scummy. I also think you misinterpreted certain things that I said, which I already explained. For example, the half-assed reads comment (which I deeply regret saying now because it looks like you took it to heart). You posted a novel as to why you think FLC is scummy, yet the other reads you gave were uninformative one liners. Also, when I said "you haven't given your opinions on other scumspects" it meant that you hadn't given off any opinions on Navo and Plutonium, who had the most votes on them at the time. As for everything else, I've already explained myself, so I'm not really sure what else to tell you. Also in the future, could you please format your posts a little differently than that last post? I had trouble trying to understand what you were saying, and I hope I interpreted everything correctly. All in all you're a weaker scumread than Navo and Plutonium in my book, so I'm not sure why I'm spending so much time defending myself/attacking you when I'm not even prioritizing your lynch. I'd like to see more from Kermit the Frog guy. His vote on Scumnori almost seems opportunistic to me; apart from the voting comment he doesn't have a case on him at all. He's also hasn't provided any reads on myself or Navo, two of the other wagons going on at the moment, and is basically using the excuse of "Pluto wagon seems opportunistic" as to not provide much of a read on him (though more of a read than Scumnori IMO). However, two posts does not a case make, so I'm neutral on him. As I'm typing this, Des Rois claims to be reading through the thread and coming up with a post, so I'll wait for that before making any judgment. Avy's cute though. I'm wondering if Moonside's playstyle is just "ask questions, provide a couple sentences worth of own opinions, and ask more questions". In reality the content of his/her posts don't match how long they are, and it almost looks like pseudo-contribution. However, he doesn't look all that scummy otherwise, and I'm not prioritizing his lynch at all, so I'm going to weakly lean scum for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Votals: plutonium (5): RockMySocks, Robin's Egg, Okarin, Scumnori, Balboa (L-2) Scumnori (3): plutonium95, Sensational Bahamas Okarin (2): Navo, Bear_Knight Navo (3): Caliban, FourLeafClover, Moonside Voteless: Tesla. des Rois Time left in phase: 7.25 Hours. 7 to Hammer. des Rois, I apologize for the mixup. Edited September 17, 2012 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ochako Uraraka Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 My vote is on Navo, not Scumnori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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