Persona 3 Mafia - Game Cancelled - Mass Destronktion

[Terrador]

L-2 role?

By that, I meant "able to force hammer-minus-two votes", as discussed previously.

[Eurykins]

Riddle me this, though: if scum had this L-2 role, and 3 people total, couldn't they use the ability, pile on the three votes, and autowin every Day? I don't think we have any real idea what's going on with the specifics.

I think that is a dangerous thing to consider yes, but I think that'd also cast a high amount of suspicion on them the first time it's executed. And from there, at least one or two of them would be nailed the following day/night phases (depending on if we have another vig shot or not) for it, so I'm not sure if scum would risk being that obvious, if they're the ones with the vote manipulation.

L-2 role?

We're basically assuming that the vote swapping ability can only place as many votes on someone until they're L-2: 2 votes away from being hammered. Which is why SB and Breezy were put at 5 votes earlier (7's needed to hammer this day phase).

Aaaaaaaaand was ninja'd by Terrador, lol.

[Junk]

Ah I see. You guys are super helpful.

[Terrador]

I think that is a dangerous thing to consider yes, but I think that'd also cast a high amount of suspicion on them the first time it's executed. And from there, at least one or two of them would be nailed the following day/night phases (depending on if we have another vig shot or not) for it, so I'm not sure if scum would risk being that obvious, if they're the ones with the vote manipulation.

We're basically assuming that the vote swapping ability can only place as many votes on someone until they're L-2: 2 votes away from being hammered. Which is why SB and Breezy were put at 5 votes earlier (7's needed to hammer this day phase).

Aaaaaaaaand was ninja'd by Terrador, lol.

If they were trying to be subtle, why tip the fact that there's a vote-influencing ability, though...? Why not just hide that fact until they can force a lynch on a townie?

Ah I see. You guys are super helpful.

That's what we do! At least, hopefully, if we're not MAFIA SCUM!!

[Wen Yang]

First things first: Where are our votals? We kinda need it here, mr. Host. Also, broken ISO links in first post.

Junko: Giving very strong newb tryhard vibes, and given that I've NEVER played with him, I can't really tell if he's really just new, or scum faking newb tryhard. Neutral opinion on him for now.

BBM: Haven't posted much so not much to say... He seems to vote me over my ISO being broken (Is that MY fault? SERIOUSLY!?), which IMO, is just a lazy reason to vote. He seems to be supportive of sky based on #3019037 which makes me wonder if it's just from knowing sky from earlier games or scumbuddy with him... Neutral slight leaning maf.

Bluedoom: Not much content yet, said himself he's mostly skimming. Need more info before I can make a call on him.

SB: Third party with some sort of unknown wincon. I'm still unconvinced that he's truly harmless, but I agree that we have more important things to do for now, and we can always cop him if we really need assurance. Will leave alone for now.

Breezy: Like Bluedoom, too little content and didn't really say anything that really catches attention yet. Need more info.

Mitsuki: Claimed Doublevoter, her ISO link is broken, please fix. Didn't seem to say much from what I can recall though.

GP: Seems pretty sensible for the most part. My read on him is mostly neutral slightly leaning town.

Terrador: Not much posts to go through yet as well, then again, first day still. So far I'm getting a slight town vibe from you as well.

Refa: The junpei thing almost makes me certain that his role is a certain someone, but host says no flavspec so I'll shut up on that. This made me suspicious of him though.

Eurykins: Acted a lot like he did in the previous game, where he was maf... so my suspicion on him is mostly based on that. I have not really played often enough with him to know him that well, so for now neutral slightly leaning to maf.

Shinori: again, not much content yet, though what you have put out gave me another slight town vibe.

Sky_Paladin: ITP tunneling? Opportunistically? Seriously man. Even if you're town this is just bad play. I'd vote him but I don't know the votals and don't want to risk hammering him by accident.

Euklyd: Again, minimal content, too little to judge yet.

[Wen Yang]

Terrador: What about the possibility of multiple maf groups that are opposed to one another?

[Terrador]

Terrador: What about the possibility of multiple maf groups that are opposed to one another?

Having a hidden mafia faction in a fifteen-man game would be bastard-mod as all hell. I'm not even considering it as a possibility, honestly.

[Eurykins]

If they were trying to be subtle, why tip the fact that there's a vote-influencing ability, though...? Why not just hide that fact until they can force a lynch on a townie?

That's what we do! At least, hopefully, if we're not MAFIA SCUM!!

For one, there's already word of a mayor/double-voter. So in that aspect, the ability to even put people at L-2 is that much stronger.

The notion of keeping silent is logical, but also, if they started using it since D1, maybe it gives it a randomized effect? I'm guessing that either the user chose wagons that may have resulted in high chances of mislynch, or perhaps was even reflective of the user's own personal thoughts/biases of who they think is scum/worthy of being lynched. All we know is that the role is floating around, and is affecting (at least temporarily until we choose to swap our votes back) the voting process. We can't do much else about it until we get more information on those involved, and from general scum-hunting in the meantime. (And I'm just speculating, but there may be some aspect of paranoia/distraction that the user is also hoping to cause by messing with the votes to begin with, which would detract from overall scum hunting business.)

And obviously, we're TOTES SCUMBUDDIES. LE GASP!!! WE'VE BEEN FOUND!

[euklyd]

sadfawjfkhsa I hate this piece of shit craptop

A note for newish players: FoS is Focus of Suspicion, and is not an actual vote.

I generally prefer Finger of Suspicion, so that I can imagine this, but w/e.

Riddle me this, though: if scum had this L-2 role, and 3 people total, couldn't they use the ability, pile on the three votes, and autowin every Day? I don't think we have any real idea what's going on with the specifics.

The way Paperblade's role worked in CY'OR was that if the person he picked for the highest number of votes was actually lynched that day, he lost his role.
Regardless this is baseless mechanical speculation. It should probably stop. We really don't have any idea what the mechanics are.

Well, one more bit (not mechanical speculation, though). I'm surprised that the Persuader role was used when it was; it seems likely to me that it was used by newbscum or impulsivescum, or that there isn't complete control over it.

Anyways I'm done here. I have things I need to do and this fucking craptop is pissing me off.

[Wen Yang]

What euk said makes sense. The timing of that votal mess was odd indeed.

[Green Poet]

Now that I think about it... the L-2 role wouldn't be very usable to quickhammer for scum for a majority of the game, as it would incriminate everyone who voted on the L-2'ed person.

There are basically only two scenarios in which I can see scum wanting to use the L-2 ability in a way that wouldn't make their alignments clear:

1. Townie X is about to be mislynched by popular consent. Role is used to bump a mafioso to L-2, and the scum previously riding the townie X wagon fake being hesitant about lynching X. The rest of town proceeds to revote and lynch X, making scum seem innocent.

2. In *YLO, mafioso Y is about to be lynched by popular consent. Role is used to bump townie Z to L-2, and scum quickhammers them.

Neither of these happened when the role was used earlier, and everyone pretty much immediately unvoted. Thus I think that the motivation behind the role was simply to facilitate an SB lynch, and that Paladin is the influencer.

##Vote: Sky_Paladin

There's too much on him now for me to pass as simply confused town/opportunistic hunting. Mitsuki, if you're there, could you confirm that your doublevoting ability is just that, and absolutely nothing more?

[Terrador]

Just for posterity: it appears that Sky_Paladin is here.

Sky: Would you like to defend yourself at all...?

[Wen Yang]

Also, WHERE ARE OUR VOTALS!?

[Terrador]

Also, WHERE ARE OUR VOTALS!?

Seconded.

[Sky_Paladin]

Hi I have ten minutes in between catching buses. There is twenty pages of garbage and I only had one reread the whole time.

SB claimed anti-town ITP I mean why you don't want to lynch him? He said that he had a seperate win condition and deliberately hid that condition from us so that he could pursue his ITP win condition.

Of course he said he was harmless. Why would he say he was dangerous :D

OK so on the reread:

I have scum read on Junko and Green Poet

Junko because generally awful posting and contradictory statements

Green poet because she went from 'Sky is town' to 'oh yeah Sky is totally scum' with what seemed to be no basis for her change of opinion

Anyway I don't have any time to deal with this right now and I will not be back here for hours. See you then. Or not.

[Terrador]

Hi I have ten minutes in between catching buses. There is twenty pages of garbage and I only had one reread the whole time.

SB claimed anti-town ITP I mean why you don't want to lynch him? He said that he had a seperate win condition and deliberately hid that condition from us so that he could pursue his ITP win condition.

Of course he said he was harmless. Why would he say he was dangerous :D

OK so on the reread:

I have scum read on Junko and Green Poet

Junko because generally awful posting and contradictory statements

Green poet because she went from 'Sky is town' to 'oh yeah Sky is totally scum' with what seemed to be no basis for her change of opinion

Anyway I don't have any time to deal with this right now and I will not be back here for hours. See you then. Or not.

...you have another five minutes to discuss why you were focusing solely on SB, and why you were so aggressive so early?

[Junk]

Hi I have ten minutes in between catching buses. There is twenty pages of garbage and I only had one reread the whole time.

SB claimed anti-town ITP I mean why you don't want to lynch him? He said that he had a seperate win condition and deliberately hid that condition from us so that he could pursue his ITP win condition.

Of course he said he was harmless. Why would he say he was dangerous :D

OK so on the reread:

I have scum read on Junko and Green Poet

Junko because generally awful posting and contradictory statements

Green poet because she went from 'Sky is town' to 'oh yeah Sky is totally scum' with what seemed to be no basis for her change of opinion

Anyway I don't have any time to deal with this right now and I will not be back here for hours. See you then. Or not.

But you are missing the point that he would end up killing himself if he did that. He clearly has to survive to win. I won't go to far deep because I might risk getting modkilled.

[MRDRHAWK]

I can't really do votals on my phone, and ai'm not near a computer ATM

hold your shit for a bit until I can get on my laptop

[Green Poet]

Green poet because she went from 'Sky is town' to 'oh yeah Sky is totally scum' with what seemed to be no basis for her change of opinion

Pretty sure anyone who's ISO'd me can attest to the fact that I never expressed a thought that you were town nor leaning town, and that literally everyone who's given a read on me so far besides yourself is leaning town on me.

[Terrador]

But you are missing the point that he would end up killing himself if he did that. He clearly has to survive to win. I won't go to far deep because I might risk getting modkilled.

Sky was being sarcastic; SB saying that he's harmless is obvious because there's no reason that he would claim to be allied with scum, as that would get his head rolled. What is it you can't do without risk of modkill, anyway? It's not like this is rolespec.

I can't really do votals on my phone, and ai'm not near a computer ATM

hold your shit for a bit until I can get on my laptop

We really do need to know if there's some shenanigans going on with vote totals before anyone else jumps on it.

Pretty sure anyone who's ISO'd me can attest to the fact that I never expressed a thought that you were town nor leaning town, and that literally everyone who's given a read on me so far besides yourself is leaning town on me.

Confirming that I read Green Poet as town, and don't remember her ever saying you're remotely townie. Will search again posthaste, though.

[Eurykins]

Hi I have ten minutes in between catching buses. There is twenty pages of garbage and I only had one reread the whole time.

SB claimed anti-town ITP I mean why you don't want to lynch him? He said that he had a seperate win condition and deliberately hid that condition from us so that he could pursue his ITP win condition.

Of course he said he was harmless. Why would he say he was dangerous :D

OK so on the reread:

I have scum read on Junko and Green Poet

Junko because generally awful posting and contradictory statements

Green poet because she went from 'Sky is town' to 'oh yeah Sky is totally scum' with what seemed to be no basis for her change of opinion

Anyway I don't have any time to deal with this right now and I will not be back here for hours. See you then. Or not.

Bolded: Technically not true:

##Vote: Refa

So I rolled harmless neutral again...

Italicized: Did he really try to 'hide it'?

(I'm not plain survivor, and if my wincon fails and I'm still alive I convert to a normal townie)

Underlined: No one is saying/thinking that his claim IS true 100% (there are obvious doubts regarding SB), and obviously, no ITP with the will to survive will claim anti-town/being dangerous to town. That's given.

[Eurykins]

Also, our job as townies (as someone stated earlier) is to scum-hunt and to find those who are harmful to town (and remove them before they remove us).

If SB is telling the truth and in no way poses a threat to us, we have no reason to waste a day's lynch on removing someone who doesn't exist to antagonize town.

If SB is lying, and IS detrimental in any sort of way to town, then that's up to us to figure out and pin him down for.

But for now, there is no sense in jumping up and nailing someone who's openly claiming (a joint win condition as well, with the swapping over to town if he loses his original win con) that he's no threat to town, and instead remains open with his thoughts and contributions to the game, as opposed to nailing someone who we find is scummy given scum-hunting within the posting/day phases (and night results/actions).

[Terrador]

The only time Green Poet ever mentioned Sky_Paladin in a remotely positive light was this post, in which she figured that forcing the lynch anonymously would be too unsubtle for Sky_Paladin to be the vote-changing player*.

*My own rephrasing, not her explicit words.

[Junk]

Gah I think Poly removed my post that was essentail to prove to sky that I cannot be scum.

[Green Poet]

The only time Green Poet ever mentioned Sky_Paladin in a remotely positive light was this post, in which she figured that forcing the lynch anonymously would be too unsubtle for Sky_Paladin to be the vote-changing player*.

Naturally, my opinion on this changed once we re-examined the votals and realized the L-2 possibilities. Also, BBM offered meta on Paladin after this post, which contradicted my impression there.

Gah I think Poly removed my post that was essentail to prove to sky that I cannot be scum.

He can do that? Which post are we talking about?