Shin Megami Tensei Mafia Day 5

[Kamina]

Although I do agree that Scum Goon's vote switch to Death is a little weird seeing as Death wasn't even really on his radar prior to that (he mentioned Death was making a lot of noise

Scum Goon is town: he's honest, Death swing a bit out of nowhere but oh well

Death's alignment doesn't matter

Scum Goon is maf

Death is mafia: In this case, it seems reasonable that Scum Goon is switching to Death either to get credit for swinging a lynch to Death and away from me, or to distance himself from my lynch

Death is town (or ITP?): This case is a little weird since it doesn't really make sense to draw attention to yourself jumping from one townie wagon to another, the only thing I can think of is he thinks Death is more lynchable so he's trying to get town/town wagons going instead of a random mafia wagon sprouting up out of nowhere? This seems like easily the least likely case just because I can't think of a reason for it unless Death is ITP and Goon knows it somehow, but if I were mafia I wouldn't want that ITP lynched ASAP unless they were a big threat.

If Goon's ITP it gets sketchy since he's probably honest but it's possible he's not, but even if he's not it doesn't really mean much because he likely doesn't know our alignments either

The stickman waffle is eh, it was mostly because he wasn't doing much other than harass me I felt, but I felt his stubbornness in persisting what I feel is bad logic was townie (even if not protown)

However...

I'm still happy with a Red Eye lynch, if for no other reason than "s/he makes me angry" (although I will stand by what I said earlier)

L1F is obviously village because jumping in and immediately being confrontational isn't something that wolves do;

The fuck? Also the rest of that post is bad since you're basically just being a dick for no reason. At least when I'm a dick I'm attempting to make a point. This isn't Game of Champions, but if it was, you'd be in the circle

[Kamina]

Posting is hard

should read:

Although I do agree that Scum Goon's vote switch to Death is a little weird seeing as Death wasn't even really on his radar prior to that (he mentioned Death was making a lot of noise but doesn't seem to think he's scum). His vote switch came after Death's dumb vote on me and that vote seemed to be the catalyst though, so it seems okay? It's not like the most obvtown thing ever but I don't think it's super terrible either.

[Olivier]

[spoiler=Red Eye] Red Eye: So the original vote had a lot of emotional bias. No doubt about that. I kinda lost my cool there and botched the phase end time. Now if not for post 150 I probably would've Unvoted. Post 150 was laughably bad. When he has a wagon on him for lacking original content his response. lol I created content. When he hasn't. Scum goon you can say I'm trying to "portray his as coasting" I don't have to. He's doing it himself. And sorry I kept my vote because didn't have access to the internet and then you made a horrible post that is legit scummy. You do literally nothing in terms of scum hunting, you don't try to defend yourself, and you just sling mud. I see nothing in there that a townie would do. And before you say that you have been scum hunting, link a post where you actually did scum hunting. And no sheeping doesn't count. It's not inherently scummy as some people seem to think it is, but it's not scum hunting. Your for of sheeping is more likely to come from town. But sorry 150 sucks.

Also I have something written out to your most recent post, but I'm fairly sure it would get me banned so not posting that. But just gonna say this: Stop interpreting my words in the way that benefits and not the way they were meant. Stop.

[Shiki Ryougi]

From what I can see, there was only one point your last post where you declared you had a townread on another player. That hardly refutes my point.

1) If I haven't identified a sheeping vote specifically, the odds are that I haven't found the action suspicious.

2) This has already been explained; I was unable to complete the post in one sitting and as a result I lost my train of thought.

3) I have already refuted his case and explained why it is a weak one. Please read my posts.

3) I disagree, this is very important. The fact that his vote was unmemorable conveys just how weak it was, which makes Death even more suspicious. I don't feel as if you've understood this point at all.

5) Then i suppose we shall have to agree to disagree.

Except I've plainly stated (and/or implied) who is and isn't on my priority/scum/town reads and for what reason(s) in my posts. So the fact that I may not have outright stated "I feel/think X is town" often is irrelevant, as what information needs to be known has already been said.

Second 3) I'll agree to disagree here. There are many points in which people often overlook, skim, or otherwise forget when/what's been said by another, and just because something doesn't stand out to someone doesn't mean it's necessarily insignificant/weak. That's what makes the whole posting/not-editing posts and physical evidence important in Mafia gameplay. (And though I do understand what you were putting across, I simply do not agree with it.)

I got Goon and Twitter confused. That's actually really shameful, going to commit sudoku. Twitter is the guy that's second-ish

Kelpie, the problem is that his "town reaction" is canceled out by the fact that he made later actions that made it seem like it was less a "UH OH NEED TO SECURE A LYNCH" and more a "UH OH NEED TO SECURE A NOT-ME-OR-MY-SCUMBUDDIES LYNCH". He did not step back and reassess his vote, instead he kept insisting I am scummiest even though he'd given no indication of such thoughts prior to his alleged panic vote.

In fact, go read Death's iso to see his case. He never once calls me scummy (he questions me but doesn't call me scummy) until he decides to vote me in "deadline panic" and then decides to turn it into a full case when Wife calls him out, but he has no case it's just "Red Eye is mean so he must be mafia also he's doing less than me." If he thought I was scum before his vote he would have brought up his lines of questioning BUT HE DIDN'T. He says stickman is probably town and has the best vote on me, except stickman also voted me for sheeping he just claimed it wasn't. The problem people have with sheeping is that they are sorta not contributing and not really showing opinions of their own, which is p. much what stickman voted me for (excepting he said it wasn't sheeping so Death thinks it's legit). The best part is that he 180S ON MY SHEEPING BEING SCUMMY, saying that

in response to Wife defending my sheeping (it's possible he's not referring to me here but it doesn't make sense to refer to Wife in third person when he's responding to her). So is it scummy or is it not? If it is, why does your vote on me have nothing to do with it? Why is it never brought up again?

Death saying I am not doing anything is bullshit since all he's done is ask questions with no followup, complain at people about nongame related things, give a super lazy vote on Wife (seriously you waited til we were out of RVS for this?), then decide I'm not doing anything and vote me. Puh-leez.

I am a pretty easy wagon because I'm making posts in a certain manner that can be a bit offensive but isn't really supposed to be because it's facetious and stuff (although that one post was probably over the line so w/e).

1. Problem I have with the Bolded/Underlined section: At the time that Death voted: He was at 2 votes, you were at 3 or 4, Fangirl was at 2, Scum Goon was at 2, and two others (negating No Lynch vote since that was from RVS shizz alone) had 1 vote on them. This means that there were multiple plausible wagons to start pushing forward at any given time, in order to "avoid himself getting lyched". Unless you're implying that everyone else who had 2 or so votes on them = scumbuddies he was bent on protecting (and thus you were the most logical choice), I fail to see the logic applying in that aspect.

2. He actually DID have multiple points against you during the time/post against you:

A) You were being needlessly hostile/aggressive/insulting to the rest of the player base (this in itself is not necessarily scummy, but town has no reason to verbally antagonize the other town members/players even under fire).

B) You choose to vote Death over Scum Goon because of #votals (which is also an easy way to avoid jumping onto a popular wagon), which is a poor reason at best because you can easily browse the thread yourself to get a feel of numbers, and in no way would we have been remotely close to the hammering aspect (There are 15 players in this game, and it's 50%+ 1 for HAMMER) at that time.

C) You apparently vote/comment on people without having read people's posts (namely Lucifer's), which is the one of the worst gameplay tactics anyone could employ (and it speaks volumes in lack of actual effort),

and D) You're pretty hypocritical in saying Death hasn't done anything when you really have no room to talk in that regard.

Quite frankly, that's more than enough validation to put a half-decent vote on anyone; so I ask again, "What is the issue with Death keeping his vote on you when it's pretty damn valid?"

3. "Red Eye is mean so he must be mafia also he's doing less than me." is also a hilarious misrep of what he says.

4. I'm pretty sure the comment was directed at Wife, not you, but I could be wrong. (Requesting verification of said post to whom it was directed at if possible.)

5. "Death saying I am not doing anything is bullshit since all he's done is..." Stop right there. The fact that you're using what SOMEONE ELSE IS DOING as means to prove that you're not doing anything? Terrible and faulty logic. "Content with my Death vote, he's still scummy as fuck. Also, how can I be contributing less than you? I'm the center of attention, bby, that means I'm creating reads all over the place just by existing. Goddamn #sosmart" also sounds terrible, because all you're doing is flailing in the water and causing people to stare at you. Quite literally. If you mean contributing as in, "I'm causing everyone to think I'm scummy because I'm not putting forth genuine scum-hunting efforts and the barest of reads while acting completely rude to the rest of the player base for no reason", then yes, I suppose you are. But that's certainly not pro-town effort.

The wagon on you is as prominent as it is because of your gameplay, words, and attitude, none of which have given any sort of pro-town efforts, feelings, or interest (at least not to me).

[Estelle]

God damn this is a game. Fortunately, I have arrived to convince you all to No Lynch. Gimme some time to break apart arguments and tell you all who you should certainly avoid lynching, as a No Lynch Lynch is certainly a Lynch.

[Olivier]

God damn this is a game. Fortunately, I have arrived to convince you all to No Lynch. Gimme some time to break apart arguments and tell you all who you should certainly avoid lynching, as a No Lynch Lynch is certainly a Lynch.

Wait what? I'm confused. Does this make sense to anyone else.

[Olivier]

[spoiler=waifu]Okay so rereading wife I'm fairly sure I know who they are and I'm fairly sure they're town. I don't see scum intent in the posts. She addressed the problems I had with her, those being the sudden switch in vote and the defending TF only to turn around a vote him next post. And I'm satisfied with the answers. But this isn't good. I only have two solid scum reads when its likely a 3 or 4 man team so I guess I got to go reread some more.

[Kamina]

Alright I'm done, see you guys at deadline

[Estelle]

##Vote: Death

Stop spamming.

Confirmed mafia. I lol at the irony that Scum Goon actually turned out to be scum It's because that was mean and we all know that only people who demand that things happen in D1 are mafia because town is too busy not giving a fuck

Speaking of RVS, getting out of it, and deeper meaning: I have nothing but disdain for

"Am I in time or RVS?" AKA, "I want to make a silly vote that can't be held against me for the purpose of making it look like I'm contributing, but without actually having to. Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure if it's still socially acceptable to do so, so I shall preface it with this disclaimer. This plan can't possibly fail."

I want you to step up your game and actually make some valid contributions.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Twitter Famous

Not feeling like this vote was established for an actual reason. Step up YOUR game and make a valid contributions please kawaii desu ka AKA naw you're not making contributions out of this post, but demanding that Twit does. You're the twit here. Also, your breakdown of RVS-awareness is funny, and also scummy, because you're picking apart an event that is quite the opposite of scummy, since it's not inherently bad to question that sort of thing.

I was asking that question to Kenji (meant to say serious COMMENT)

but ##Unvote, ##Vote: Lucifer's #1 Fangirl

Firstly there seems to be the thought given to the crossvoting and how people would attack her for it seems kind of self-conscious. Secondly I don't really care for the Twitter Famous vote; not seeing how a bunch of 'stop spamming do something useful' votes on Death are contributing so much more than TF's vote. And some people have fun joking around in RVS; the scum intent that Fangirl's trying to portray seems pretty contrived to me.

Death seems to just enjoy being an ass; my guess would have been that he goes by the username Darkninjaabc on the forum Maidens of the Kaleidoscope if not for the fact that he seems well-versed in recent Serenes Forest in-jokes.

Hi Manicks Hi Manix This guy is town This guy is town because of the stuff that I underlined I'm in total agreement of this case, and I literally think that this guy could be locked up in jail and still make a valid point I'm working really hard on trying to be a sheep here, and this is the outcome

Lucifer, why is Twitter Famous a worse offender for having a weak vote than other players? I made my entrance even later than him, and I only made an RVS vote myself. I also think the RVS comment isn't telling of alignment; some players like Cam and Shin complain regularly when they miss that stage of the game, so why are Twitter's actions scum-motivated?

Deathbound, while I'm in an agreement that it wasn't a spectacular vote, what sort of vote should have been made? At this stage in the game I don't see anything particularly wrong with a vote like that, and it doesn't feel like too much of a stretch at this point. I don't believe that L1F's actions have been scummy at this stage.

Figuring out your identities is more interesting than finding scum at this stage in the game, to be perfectly honest.

I'm trying not to identify anybody because you're all losers who want to lynch people. Scum Goon is pretty clearly scum, don't you thi- ohh.... Well, clearly the correct answer is to No Lynch L1F's being hypocritical. Is that not scummy anymore these days?

If the vote had just been like "hey contribute please" like the last few votes against Death, I probably would have been cool with it in the same way as those votes. But there seems to be too much of an effort to ascribe a scum intent to something that seems pretty innocuous to me. And also, the amount of thought given to the cross-voting seems self-conscious.

It's not super scummy but it's the best I've got atm (which is probably going to be Fangirl's response >_>)

I have already ascertained the identity of one player.

Can I marry you? I'm sorry I ever voted you. I want to share a brain with you, but it looks like you're beating me to all the punches. I'll follow you like your sheep any day because effort is for lame-o's who want to actually lynch people Also no town ever says this

But it was a #preemptive attempt at #deflection just in case my #jokevote wasn't accepted. Props to #Fangirl because if anyone was self-conscious it was me.

@Deathbound: For someone making a case against someone trying too hard to imply scum intent in another's post, you're pretty much doing the exact same thing, no?

##Unvote

##Vote:Red Eye

That was a silly sheep. Someone's got to take something over seriously in order to get out of RVS, otherwise we get nowhere.

Probably not scum, but the effort is nice because the justification is there in regards to the vote. 10 points, Griffindor #seriously #takingcharge #IBuyTheIntentOfThisPostAsTownIntentAndNotScumIntent

With the Light: The Wife, Deathbound, Lucifer's #1 Fangirl, maybe Red Eye

With the Darkness: Twitter Famous, Scum Goon

I just gave you town's wincon, scum. You can thank me later.

How d- wait like 6 people asked this already. Eh, you're slipping out town secrets, but this late in the phase? It's not settling right in my stomach, yo Yea in all seriousness, it's been beaten to death, but it still makes terrible sense for you to do something like this time and time again Elie. Not sure if scum

Heavy. Also I'm gonna read what's happened since it seems like were out of RVS at this point.

I've got a good feeling about Homer Simpson here Actually it's just a gut-TR because this post seems largely unnecessary for scum to make. This is the perfect time to hang around and lurk, but Death didn't, so...I dunno, it just seems out of place for a scumpost

lmao at Death saying that Fangirl's posts are concise

Death whoisscum?

@TF- nowhere in The Wife's first two posts did it say:

a) why you're worse than Scum Goon, according to them

b) what the point of changing votes before getting a reaction from Scum Goon was

c) why Scum Goon saying that he disagreed with my vote is the same as him complaining about it (tbf I did not say why I didn't get Wife's SG vote)

Can you explain the TF bit again? Can you explain the TF bit again? I'm not sure I follow it exactly; why can't two people be equally scummy at this point in the game?

Maybe wife is scum. She sorta jumps between SG and TF without really explaining why. Not to mention both of the justifications for voting them don't exist. And obviously Minerva is scum for dodging my super scum hunting idea.##Vote: The Wife. Oh also manix is still the hidden cult leader.

Clearly The Wife is married to Scum Goon and trying to make Twitter_Famous her Twitter_Mister actually, I'm totally going to start considering the implications of The Wife having a few cases on scummy and NotReallyScummy players. Though, like I said above, it feels like Wife is making contribution with healthy skepticism, not really scummy intent.

I'm far more amused by seeing TF defend Fangirl and attack Deathbound actually, knowing that the former voted him and the latter questioned her for it. This is possibly a good slip, as scum usually demerit the votes on them.

I don't see how Fangirl's discourse about not minding being voted and willing to do anything to get out of RVS is a townslip. If anything, it can as well as be a lot of fluff to try to look good so that people like The Wife, who acted rather gullibly at this part for someone who seems so skeptical about the rest, can approve their speech as protown. Other than that, I rather liked her actions to take us out of RVS, even if I disagree with her TF vote (though it was just a reaction test to get out of RVS, so it's fine).

Which reminds me: Deathbound, why is Fangirl scummy? Your case is based on two points: Her being 'self conscious' of her crossvote and her vote on TF. The latter has already been explained and iirc you already said you consider it valid, but you still keep pressing her on behalf of the former. Why couldn't it be just as well as a reaction test and why is it scummy to crossvote someone at RVS? Is her justification not enough?

Anyway, I don't like how Scum Goon criticized Fangirl for her vote, then questioned Deathbound for... criticizing it! I wouldn't call this fencesitting, but having a double standard. His statement was contradictory and honestly means nothing, it looks like you're trying to bring a point here while being redundant. I'm waiting for more content from you, son.

##Vote: Scum Goon

inb4 i am voted for sheeping the wife

inb4 i am voted for being self conscious

inb4 i am voted for being ironic and using strikethrough so much

This guy is scum for sheeping the wife, being self conscious and being so incredibly ironic that he uses the strikethrough three times, cancelling the super!town benefits of using it merely once or even on a chance second time There's demeriting a vote that's on you and then there's calling out a vote for being bad. It's not always easy to call someone's vote bad, if it's on you, but that doesn't make you any less town for calling them out to begin with. At this point also, nothing that Fangirl's done has looked like a reaction test, because by now, something would've come out from it. It was poor play that looked like something of value but pretty much wasn't. I still like your vote placement though.

lol

jk your score on LOLKING is terrible please stop playing go play halo or something actually really? Is this all you could muster up at this stage?

I'd place my No Lynch Seal of Approval on:

Death...

Deathbound

Twitter_Famous

I'd take my No Lynch Seal of Approval away from

Scum Goon

The Wife??

Lucifer's #1 Fangirl

But of course, I'd rather not lynch anyone anyway. Where's the fun in Death... There's no point in anyone being Deathbound.

YES I JUST DID THAT, BA-DUM T'SCH more in a bit I'm getting a pop

[Cú Chulainn]

Whoops, sorry for not thinking everyone who votes against me or suspects me is scum. I guess I'm playing this game wrong.

You missed the point entirely.

Any particular reason you're being so particularly impudent Red Eye? Your posts are devoid of any meaningful content, and instead seem to consist of insults and nonsense. Hell, and you just voted Death without providing any sort of justification. Which seems to be a common theme with you.

Probably the most wtf-worthy thing you've said is that you're not even reading Fangirls posts. Analyzing the posts of players is the point of the game.

I don't think your acting as such just for the hell of it either. It seems more like it's intentional. This is a bastard game after all, so it's not entirely out of the question.

I'll have a more comprehensive post in a bit concerning the others, but this needed to be said as soon as I could.

I don't like his analysis on Red Eye's content. First, he says her posts are devoid of any meaningful content... How is that so? Is there something wrong with her points and reads? I'll be waiting for your "more comprehensible post" to address properly what you don't like. Also, she justified herself before voting Death, therefore it was not as devoid of justification as you say. The "it seems like you're doing it on purpose!" and "why are you being so impudent?" parts seem to appeal to the player and not to her points (which could be considered an ad hominem?), I'm not sure I like it.

Speaking of Enchilada, don't really like his disclaimer (regarding Deathbound and how he's clinging to RVS content), because honestly he's voting Scum Goon for a post that's made at around the same time so his issue with Deathbound is well...kind of hypocritical (for lack of a better word, fuck the English language). Would like an explanation there.

I believe it isn't worth to be suspicious of Fangirl because of RVS stuff. I exaggerated when I said he was clinging to it, I admit, but my points that her actions on RVS are not enough to make her scummy still stands. If anything, I believe it is more productive to leave RVS content in the past and focus on the actual content.

Knuckles: regarding TF, would town not wish to discredit votes upon them as well? Your point on them seems rather weak. I also feel like your vote on me shows a lack of reading comprehenstion at best. The way you portray my actions makes it seem as if I am attacking both, when in fact I found neither party involved scummy. The point about waiting for me to post more content feels almost like filler to me.

Anyone with a bit of player conscience would try to discredit votes upon themselves, that's true. However, scum are much more self-conscious than town and I dont see how a scum player would be giving credits to someone who voted him while demeriting the one who had defended him. That's quite suicidal, don't you think? This doesn't make TF obvtown but is odd enough to be pointed out.

About your case, I never said you found one of them scummy. I wondered why you questioned Deathbound's vote on Fangirl for the exact same reasons that you questioned her in the start of your post. You said you saw nothing wrong with her vote, yet you questioned it... I'm either misreading it terribly or you're being incoherent.

From what I have gathered so far, a number of people are more or less guilty of sheeping some less-than-stellar cases in a rather blatant way, which, in my opinion, is a rather poor and overall scummy method of dodging meaningful content. Of the two people most commonly associated with it, I feel as if, based on the admittedly basic read-through I have done so far, he has stood out as the more suspicious in his 'efforts'.

##Vote: Red Eye

I will have to read over the thread once more in the near future to see if I am able to deduce anything else of particular note.

tl;dr version: You have little idea about what is going on and voted Red Eyes Black Dragon because you feel he's standing out more. Do elaborate your read a bit better, please.

@Blade Wolf Death

Were you voting me for the strikethroughs? Like, seriously? Stop snooping around as usual and spouting nonsense and make a coherent case against someone.

Also

Also ##Unvote

##Vote: Red Eyes 5(L-3) 1 from deadline lynch. Believe it or not red eyes has contributed less to this game then I have and the attitude pisses me off and town has no reason to act like that. Also, note that sheeping has literally nothing to do with this vote that is not why I'm voting her.

"Reasons why you guys should vote her: Has contributed less than I have (so excuse me on this one!), she pisses me off". The first reason has its validity but I don't like the way you try to divert attention from you to her by claiming she's a worse offender. Seems to me like bad reasons but I don't see it as a bad vote. I need to read REBD properly.

Will continue this later.

[Bluedoom]

The First Votals

Please note that the votes are not in any kind of order.

Death.. (4): Lucifer's #1 Fangirl, Red Eye, Scum Goon, Deathbound

Lucifer's #1 Fangirl (1): Kenji Harima

Scum Goon (2): The Wife, Knuckles on Steroids

Red Eye (4): Kelpie, stickmanramp, RAIDO, Death..

Deathbound (1): No Lynch

Voteless: Minerva X, Samael

There is 23 hours, 43 minutes left in the phase. 6 players are required to lynch at deadline, and 8 players are required for a hammer.

Updated Votals.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Bluedoom

[Olivier]

Marth do we have a mayor or is that a typo for red eye's votals?

[Bluedoom]

' Twas a typo, my bad.

[Cú Chulainn]

To be quite honest, Death doesn't seem to me as scum, but as a town player who's having problems with his reads. The ammount of effort for someone who coasted until around page 6 almost makes me think he has good intentions.

So many walls of text make it hard to read everything, sigh. Anyway:

unvote

##Vote: RAIDO

I already addressed what I find wrong with his post. Shallow reasons to vote Red Eye, focus on those who are sheeping rather than who is scummy, admits he isn't very informed about what is going on yet feels like voting someone anyway. I'm not finding him particularly scummy (though his vote makes him seem like he's participating and scumhunting while not doing any of these), but I want to see more from him.

[Ochako Uraraka]

jk your score on LOLKING is terrible please stop playing go play halo or something actually really? Is this all you could muster up at this stage?

it's ok i stole this name from the guy who actually goes by "stickmanramp" and he's better at league than me anyway

[Cú Chulainn]

also what is wrong with you guys and your damn tendency to fluff around

seriously no lynch stop posting like a feather weight you scrub get ripped already

It makes it seem like your post has a lot of content while in fact it doesn't.

[Sham]

Hi.

[Marisa Kirisame]

I RETURN just like the prodigal son, fortunately I have run out my inner Eury so this post won't be that long

firstly, @No Lynch- idk what's going on in that post please make future ones less confusing

Death seems like he's putting in a lot of EFFORT but really a whole lot of it is kind of surface level and pointless, like the whole bunch of nullreads at the beginning which pretty much come down to SHOULD POST MORE. Also he reiterates that his Red Eye suspicion is not about Red Eye sheeping but being a dick. But this is not actually scummy. He expands on this more later on as mudslinging. Mudslinging can be scummy if it's done in a subtle way, but when it's done like OMG YOU FUCKING SUCK it's just stupid to do as scum. He also says that Red Eye doesn't have a lot of content which is true and okay.

But in his response to me, the original thing about Wife is just not true. Wife did give justification for voting both Scum Goon and Twitter Famous- and later when addressing Wife directly he says the problem was moreso the voteswitch rather than the vote itself. The rest of the response to me is a lot of stuff that is either straight up contradictory or a misrep. Firstly he says that my Fangirl vote is an overreaction- but earlier he said that Fangirl's vote was graspy. So how is it an overreaction to vote for it? Also, Fangirl's RVS grasping is okay because 'RVS' but mine isn't??? I also didn't endorse an RVS post over a non-RVS one; I said being purposely bad votes to exit RVS is dumb. And you must be new if you've never seen scum pass stuff as a reaction test... Also if scum would remove all signs of self-consciousness from their posts, isn't that agreeing that self-consciousness is scummy? And I mean, it's not always possible for scum to remove these signs in the first place. You might as well say "scum would make sure to produce more content" or "scum would make sure not to be so scummy".

And he seems to paint me saying Red Eye was just town being wagoned rather than scum as scummy. What's scummy about noting that people who get wagoned for bad reasons have a lower chance of being mafia than people who get wagoned for good reasons? Spam doesn't require meta to know whether or not it's scummy; it just requires context (spam:content ratio). Was just providing Manix as an example. As for focusing only on the bad having no scum intent... are you serious? If someone makes 99 good posts and 1 bad one, casing them for that bad one while ignoring the other 99 is incredibly scummy. Obviously this is an exaggeration (and Kelpie pointed out this was not really that true wrt at least Wife, so point to him), but yeah.

Also the solid Fangirl townread is bizarrely out of nowhere; there's literally nothing positive Death says about Fangirl. Not sure what to think about it but still noteworthy.

@stickman- the questions you ignored and said "lol" to weren't, for the most part, questions to be brushed aside. >_> Feels like refuge in audacity. And Fangirl being confrontational is townie... but Red Eye being confrontational (admittedly in a different sense) is scummy? Death point was fair though.

@Knuckles- why are you (essentially) prodvoting someone this far into the phase? Also you re-iterate that it's more productive to leave RVS behind, but that's not actually answering the point that you were voting Goon for something from that same time frame. Also, what is your opinion on Red Eye? You've attacked a lot of the cases against him but haven't actually said anything about him directly other than that he should at least try to express his own PoV on cases rather than sheeping.

[Marisa Kirisame]

ok so I ended up channeling my inner Eury after all

[Marisa Kirisame]

also Death somehow passed me in posts but still doesn't have any real scumreads afaics other than Red Eye and kind of me.

[Kamina]

Alright I'm done, see you guys at deadline

Deathbound what is your actual opinion on me, you keep saying my wagon is bad but the other things you say are weird because it feels like you don't really think I'm doing anything townie

[Ochako Uraraka]

Alas, as I drift off to sleep I am reminded that there is a mafiyua game that requires my attention!

@stickman- the questions you ignored and said "lol" to weren't, for the most part, questions to be brushed aside. >_> Feels like refuge in audacity.

lol

Am I a wolf, then?

And Fangirl being confrontational is townie... but Red Eye being confrontational (admittedly in a different sense) is scummy?

There is a difference between being confrontational and being inflammatory (something you pointed out yourself)

[Kamina]

Where is the scum intent

[All Might]

Hello everybody! Sorry about the whole "not existing" thing but since the game took a while to take off I was kind of caught in the middle of a tight schedule. ouo

Unfortunately I'm not sure how much I'll be around for the rest of Day 1 (hopefully a little bit more?), but I will have more free time past thursday. uou

I don't want to clog up the thread by posting in bulks of slim posts but I also don't want to make this a massive reading chore by making one massive post so I'm preemptively sorry this might be hard to read but I'm spoiling many parts of my reads up to now in a few posts while clarifying which timeframe it refers to, at the end there might be a shift in opinions from being up to date but I felt this was important to put here as it helps making my thought process until now understandable. Which I think is kind of important.

I hope it is easier to take each of them as separate posts in this format.

[spoiler=Part one (ed1)]

It's probably well past the initial arguments at this point but I want to note that while Kenji's OMGUS call was equivocated it is kinda true that Lucyfan has brought the topic to themselves with the "I welcome the attack" and "I honestly don't mind being attacked" paragraphs in a way that did not sound as genuine tryhard townie. It feels that the comments were brought up as a way to subvertedly put the fact they were in the spotlight, which wasn't as important since it was ED1, as a townie point in their favor. I say that precisely because the comments were made early, serve little purpose to others, and don't serve to help earlygame scumhunting. I remember The Wife pointing these actions as a townslip while I was reading, and I'd like to say I disagree.

In short I agree there's self-consciousness on Lucyfan's part. While self-consciousness isn't *inherently* scummy I don't agree it has much townie intent on Lucyfan's part, at best it might me reacting poorly to their RP but I don't think it's positive attention grabbing. u_u

There *is* the point that the slot made the greatest effort to put us out of RVS, though. Which is a deserved positive. The one positive so far.

Twitter_Famous' actual first post confused me because while I really didn't take issue with their RVS vote and others voiced the same it seems like refuge in audacity to respond and agree with lucyfan's remark so readily. Early interactions with Goon and Red Eye also make me confused. I don't agree with their early Red Eye vote as the sheeping isn't inherently scummy and pressing a vote that's been fairly explained by Deathbound isn't going to stick us in RVS any further. Twitter_Famous' strong defence of The Wife also catches me off-guard because while I can continuously see TF taking issue with Deathbound's style of questioning without connecting certain dots (which I find a good idea as it can catch scum on their lies), it feels a bit excessive, and considering The Wife was active it would definitely work better to wait for them to reply, not to mention their constant interaction in ED1. Scumbuddies or worst masons ever??? (this last sentence might not be all that serious)

[spoiler=Part two(ed1)]

I feel generally positive about Deathbound's early scumhunting efforts, despite being a tad graspy concerning absolutes like self-conciousness. Don't agree with their early questions towards The Wife as I find their posting style/modus operandi legit, and they can certainly have two scumreads of that weight.

It's hard to take death's PR seriously but I at least agree with his point about early game sheeping being null. Don't agree with his praise regarding Lucy's posts nor feel that the time left justified his inaction.

Having no problem with The Wife's posting style but something that stumps me is how they went from claiming fangirl made a townslip to questioning Twitter_famous about why he was townreading lucyfan, to the point of implying lucyfan's actions weren't as town would intentionally act, which is a massive disparity to their lucyfan read that went unexplained, how do you do this?

PEDIT: After reading again I can see that the question concerned TF's quoted read and not The Wife's. I can read quotes, I swear.

Though stickman's point about Red Eye's sheep vote not accomplishing a lot is fair (though I wouldn't agree it invalidates its purpose), I still wouldn't say that sheeping in such an early occasion is inherently scummy. Would want a more specific The Wife read because quote-responding sometimes leaves the thought process ambiguous. Town reads based on single posts are kinda weak but it's townreads I guess.

Knuckles' reads look nice but I don't get why the Scum Goon vote instead of going for The Wife's selective case of gullibility.

THAT SAID I kinda glossed over Scum Goon's reasoning as a devil's advocate and he hasn't posted since. Still wouldn't call that reason enough for the votes he has so far with how early it was.

[spoiler=Part 3 (page 6)]

Deathbound's reply post is ok though I don't agree that The Wife's lack of comparison between two scumreads warrant a questioning regarding the vote switch. Also don't agree that changing votes before a reaction is suboptimal when the read is still there, especially when the voted person wasn't present at the moment such as in Scum Goon's case. Can see the point about stickman but wouldn't call it so much sheeping as clinging to absolutes, which in retrospect is a large part of Deathbound's Lucyfan read. I do not see it as scum intent from Deathbound's part considering him being the first caser and sticking to it in obliviousness, whereas I'd say it's more dubious from stickman, whom "stuck" (haha) with the vote after the case was laid.

I don't understand stickman's defense to Knuckles' and Deathbound's posts because instead of actually replying to Deathbound's sheeping question he drops the argument, give some replies that are hard to follow as they break the conversation topic, and defends himself in a baffling way that attempts to cut the suspicions on him because his points are "still valid". That's a very deceptful way to take themselves off of the spotlight and not any townie in my eyes.

This is scummy and breaks the game's flow in my opinion because nobody was voicing that as an inherently negative way to read Twitter_Famous and the post's aggressiveness is completely unecessary. Considering most people were taking TF's actions in consideration mostly to provide intelligent reads, it feels like an empty, disruptive comment. This is not the townie way to do things.

Lucyfan's page 6 post is a whole deal better, I feel a lot more comfortable with their reads and opinions now that they're past the Twitter_Famous nitpick, though I guess that's what happens when we're past RVS!

I'm not all that comfortable with how Twitter_Famous is getting a free pass by how they're "owning up" to things when I don't see how they're trying to help us find scum in spite of that.

Red Eye was fairly agressive but I don't take an issue with his tone nor do I find it disruptive in the way it is used. Defence against knuckles is fair but I don't see much confidence toward death, which on top of handwaving stickman makes me kinda sad.

[spoiler=Part 4 (pages 7-8)]

Red Eye why would Lucifer be a potential lead when you're not even reading their posts.

Hello Samael! Nice to see you, are you going to-- oh? Just going to bash Red Eye then leave? Oh, okay... = (

Kelpie's list kinda tired me. Fairly agressive but I don't see how he goes from calling Red Eyes out for sheeping so soon whereas he disagrees with the notion that sheeping is inherently scummy.Perhaps it wasn't fully explained but I don't see such an early sheep as scummy. Agree with the points regarding The Wife's defence of Twitter_Famous.

I'll be waiting on that read, Raidou, your post and vote reasoning were too vague. Rushing won't help.

Jesus christ Death's formatting is hard to read.

I wouldn't say Death has more content than Red Eye, and I don't know why people are getting so mad at Red Eye, maybe I'm just used to straight-forward agressive people...

For what it might be worth, I find Red Eye's bluntness less disrupting than Death's passive-agressiveness and Twitter_Famous' snarkyness because he actually tries to tell who's scum.

Death's post wherein he votes Red Eye has all of one (1) read which is his vote whereas the rest of it is a mix of spam and emotional outburst. = (

Deathbound sticking on his Lucyfan read due to post style doesn't sit very well with me now.

Scum Goon's first sentence here is pretty valid. Red Eye made no mention of him up to the point aside that it was somehow their favorite scumread (considering that is whom they originally intended to vote). As far as I re-read, he was also referring to Twitter_Famous when he called somebody "bad and hypocritical", not you.

Agree with a good part of Deathbound's Death case. The emotional outburst needs to stop, and what of Death's read on The Wife, or any other read for that instance?

Kelpie's tone in post 148 feels conflicting compared to his last post as he complains about Red Eye's arrogance to a notable extent yet leaves notably abrasive comments themselves ("I feel the effort oozing from this one.", continuous complaint about Lucyfan's fluff whereas their read on the slot is consistently... null?). Hypocrisy isn't 100% scumtell, but the wallreads look more like a wall of complaints. There is thankfully some conclusion at the end wherein the complaints tie in to a competent conclusion, but it's hardly all of them. Really "eh" about the point in favor of Death as "townie-panic", and am curious about how Death's Wife vote is completely ignored in as of yet Kelpie's two posts whereas it's mentioned in Kelpie's reply against Scum Goon. What did you think of that?

[All Might]

[spoiler=Part 5 (pages 8-9)]

Red Eye's post 150 was fairly brief but there's at least something in the last sentences. Would like to see that kelpie case. Still not a fan of the stick handwaving.

Hard to derive a lot from Death's page 8 spoilerposts, but as far as I see there's calling inactives out and some townreads. Not exactly helpful. = (

Twitter_famous has valid points about Red Eye's Scum goon read in post 156.

However, while I can understand finding Raido's post pointless and basic, considering how the day is shaping up to be I question whether voting Raido like that would help at all.

Liked Scum Goon's post 158 (who'd have thought!). I don't know if it's really logical to place Red Eye's sheeping as the worst considering how early it was. Would like to see his stickman scumread explained further.

How in the bloody hell is such a disruptive force not considered that scummy in so many people's radars? Stickman parrots his previously established reads once more with the least intent to progress game discussion, and the rest of his post is snarky remarks against those that had some issue with him with no intent of explanation or defence. "This entire reasoning falls apart in the scenario that I'm a wolf" is a non-seqitur that ignores the question thrown at him and the rest of his post is literally laughing at people/daring people to vote him.

Stickman is either a fool, scummy scum, or by some miracle gone wrong the most spiteful townie ever.

PEDIT: There's confirmed no fool in the game so I'm more than inclined to lynch stickman.

Death continues to give null and town reads like it's candy, I don't see his comments as contributing at this point.

Stickman has opinions! Albeit it's a really weak read relying on one line that Death said instead of like... his nullread-townread spam, his emotional outburst, his everything else...

Glossing over Death's preemptive defense as the way he enforces it is fairly silly. >_> (He'll never get the chance to call someone stupid from that, poor guy)

Twitter_Famous, what is the townie reaction to not being active?

I'm trying to understand but am utterly failing to grasp Death's Deathbound case. Interesting how this game seems to be generating mutual scumreads, though. I'd like to add that I *have* seen scum trying to pass stuff as reaction tests, so it seems I have you beaten in all that mafia experience thing. = )

Also regarding "Were being the key word as I have just given reads on the vast majority of the game so far.", Yes, vast majority as in "everybody is townie/null/inactive except those dudes that have an issue with me". Your reads are very affected by emotion, that is not content others can rely and get a good read on.

[spoiler=Part 6 (pages 9-10)]

Regarding Kelpie's post 172, I question the utility of bringing Lucyfan's and The Wife's possible buddying now as Lucyfan is mostly a nullread of them, but I can see the issue concerning The Wife's buddying in their posts.

Having issue focusing at the walls right now, but I'm not sure why Red Eye's sheeping is still being stressed at this point of the game, with the criticism of the new content as well, it feels like talking in circles.

I am taking that Scum Goon's comment about Death spam creating a bias is still a thing though I don't see it any more in his posts. I admit that I'm having some trouble following the kelpie vs scum goon argument, though. Words are hard, and I already read a ton of them.

Well the first sentence explains the mix-up, seeing some sense in post 176 moreso, glad that someone sees the issue with stickman too. = )

Unfortunately for you, Death, your Red Eye case is still quite biased. Though there might be an inherent difference in how we interpret Red Eye's tone which makes post 150 more of an offense to you. The point about Red Eye's scumhunting being poor has some substance, though. As he has made no further read on Twitter_Famous and, as far as I know, that's his second most suspicious read. That is a decent point.

Ok, I return to see reason in Kelpie's post 179, moreso the part regarding Red Eye as I'm struggling to catch up with his argument with Scum Goon and the posts they're referring.

I'd say however that Death voting Red Eyes does make sense as scum precisely because Red Eye is the leading wagon. There were multiple wagons he could push, but Red Eye was the leading wagon, and in his head we were running out of time, so obviously he'd go for the bigger wagon.

I'm seeing points 2, 3, and 5, though. (4 is probably right but I'm too braindead to re-read that far)

...No Lynch what are you doing.

Kinda surprising as I did not see this read coming and somehow expected an attack on The Wife. I'm taking the comment regarding own weak scumreads somewhat positively, but would like a follow-up as promised.

Uh Red Eye this isn't a ragequit you're just going to be busy, right? ... Right?

[spoiler=Part 7 (page 10)]

Oh god No Lynch what the hell. Just Lucyfan is enough for me; Jesus didn't die for RP'ing.

I'm having issue telling what you mean in your post and what you don't.

"L1F's being hypocritical. Is that not scummy anymore these days?" Depends on how and when.

Also can you say what your seal of approval means because I'm tired and confused and tired. Who do you want to lynch?

I feel... fine with Knuckles' current content. I am still fairly skeptical about Twitter_Famous, but I don't really have a problem with his replies otherwise.

By the way, I think Death's vote on you was an intentional joke.

I don't really get why go for Raido considering his inactivity and the time left, and you say you don't find him particularly scummy. Aren't there people you find more scummy at this point?

Having a bit of a hard time seeing what posts from Death Deathbound (geez that reads awkwardly) is referring to in his newer post. There's quite a bit of discussion regarding what is scummy and what isn't, but I don't particularly care if Death is spammy or not as my issue is moreso with his emotion-slanted content and reads. Don't really agree with the absolute that "self-consciousness is always scummy" though we could walk in circles discussing the basics and I don't feel that'd be meaningful. Agree that nobody's playing perfectly so expecting scum to *not* do scummy things is kind of asinine. Granted, same goes for town but that's pretty much the point of the game.

O.k. with the stickman and Knuckles points.

TL;DR: stickmanramp is a disruptive, non-contributing player and should be lynched today.

Would look at Twitter_Famous for low content contribution and mild disruption adding the fact he somehow is getting a free pass too.

Red Eyes has been continually shaky on content but I don't see his tone and disposition as harmful. Would not lynch today.

If Death continues the slippery slope towards appeal to emotion I want him on a stake.

##Vote: stickmanramp

Also as I *finally* finish my massread I have to ask why are so many people passive-agressive this game like holy shit. Anonymafia does that?

Again apologize about the length and hope it doesn't get to that point anymore in the future. :/