FE4 Gen. 1 Efficiency Tier List

[_____]

The old one is long dead, so this might as well be posted again. I'll just Copy-Paste from Genesis. By the way, let's keep the squabbling about efficiency out of this topic, alright? I'm tired of reading it in every other tier topic.

[spoiler="The Tier List]

Sigurd Tier

Sigurd

Hero Axe Tier

Lex

High Tier

Holyn

Sylvia

Levin

Midir

Jamka

Ayra

Briggid

Ethlin

Upper Mid Tier

Lachesis

Cuan

Fury

Fin

Lower Mid Tier

Alec

Beowulf

Noish

Adeen

Dew

Claude

Azel

Low Tier

Diadora

Ardan

Tiltyu

Spoiler tag'd for your convenience.

Current arguments:

-Alec, Noish, Beo, and Fin up

-Jamka and Briggid down

-Beo above Alec

-Aideen rising

-Lachesis dropping

Edited April 3, 2010 by Ninji

[Salad Utensil]

I think that Beowulf should overtake Alec.

Beowulf 9 Free Knight 38 14 0 11 11 10 0 3

Alec 9 Social Knight 36.9 11.1 0.3 11.8 12.1 9.1 0.3 6.1

Although level 9 is over-leveled for Alec (I'd say at least) by the time Beowulf is recruited. Charge>Awareness, since charge at least gives him a chance to 1RKO. Beowulf also has overall better durability forever due to 10% higher HP growth. Offense is going to be better too due to lead in strength and a higher growth as well. Alec has the advantage of C lances and Javelins for options, but you are limited to 2 in the first generation so they are highly contested and are at best situational to use since they almost negate any evasion bonus from WTA due to weight. Beowulf has the options for magic swords for range I guess, but he is unlikely to get one as well, which there are a total of 3 in the first generation.

Beowulf 20 46.8 19.4 0.0 24.4 20.3 15.3 3.5 5.2

Alec 20 44.6 16.4 5.9 19.2 18.4 15.4 5.9 9.4

Beowulf now has options for A swords which are better than B lances, unless you want to give Alec the hero lance. Beowulf probably should have had a greater overall level lead, due to starting at a higher level than Alec at that point probably and being better in the arena due to better offense so he probably should have promoted earlier than Alec did.

[chrysalid]

Do we give credit for parenting? Do we assume level 30 for parents?

I only ever play ranked style so this is not super authoritative, but:

I wouldn't put anyone on a horse before promotion lower than high tier, and I wouldn't put anyone that can't counter during enemy phase and isn't holding a staff above mid tier (excepting Midir, who is a twofer there and deserves high tier). Alec, Noishe, Beowulf etc. are always in the thick of the top 2-3 most important parts of getting a map done like Sigurd's Gradius options and I don't care how crummy their stats are.

The snipers/bowfighters are overrated; there's not any place where they make a serious difference in Gen 1. A sniper with a whoaaaaomg player phase needs to kill superpowered bosses and stuff to be making a difference, not overkilling some poor gimp sword armor or something when charge/continue goes off. At least Midir's player-phase-only existence has a canter after it.

I'd put Arden and Deirdre above Tiltyu. Arden helps in prologue and helps a tiny bit in chapter 1, and is pretty decent in that canyon fight in chapter 2 with a slim sword and his pursuit ring; Deirdre does her silence and is your only option for pre-empting the canyon ballistas entirely. Tiltyu is an empty sack in efficiency and you have so many more units by that point getting things done that there's not even any small errands to set her after.

[Psych]

I say Ethlin down.

Sure she's getting some heals here and there and the Light Sword, but she's not killing anything better than Fury, leaves for 2 chapters, and the only big positive thing she has for her is getting Cuan the Gal Bolg.

[chrysalid]

Being the only highly mobile healer for multiple pre-Libra chapters is more important than anything anyone else in the sub-Sigurd tiers does.

The Gae Bolg doesn't matter at all in Gen 1 even if you give her complete credit for it. The only enemies on the map left when you get it are comically weak pirates and then it's gone.

[_____]

Do we give credit for parenting?

No.

Do we assume level 30 for parents?

Depends on each unit, of course. You wouldn't assume that someone like Ardan or Tiltyu is reaching level 30, but it's safe to say those like Sigurd and Lex are.

I wouldn't put anyone on a horse before promotion lower than high tier, and I wouldn't put anyone that can't counter during enemy phase and isn't holding a staff above mid tier (excepting Midir, who is a twofer there and deserves high tier). Alec, Noishe, Beowulf etc. are always in the thick of the top 2-3 most important parts of getting a map done like Sigurd's Gradius options and I don't care how crummy their stats are.

The snipers/bowfighters are overrated; there's not any place where they make a serious difference in Gen 1. A sniper with a whoaaaaomg player phase needs to kill superpowered bosses and stuff to be making a difference, not overkilling some poor gimp sword armor or something when charge/continue goes off. At least Midir's player-phase-only existence has a canter after it.

I whole-heartedly agree, but I know that quite a few people don't share this mindset.

About Tiltyu, I don't know a thing about her or why she's higher than them, personally.

Although level 9 is over-leveled for Alec (I'd say at least) by the time Beowulf is recruited.

For the middle of the chapter, it seems fine to me. It's only 7 levels between 2 1/2 chapters and 2 arenas.

Charge>Awareness, since charge at least gives him a chance to 1RKO.

That much is true.

Beowulf also has overall better durability forever due to 10% higher HP growth.

Don't blow things out of proportions. Beowulf has 1 more HP and 1 more Defense at base than Alec if he procs his HP. When they reach 20, that switches to a 2 HP lead only. Alec also has a 5 Avoid lead at base in addition to the weapon triangle control that Lances give him.

Offense is going to be better too due to lead in strength and a higher growth as well.

It's a marginal lead at best. Skimming over the Chapter 3 enemy stats, which I should probably provide a link to in the first post, I don't see anything that the extra Strength lead allows Beowulf to KO faster than Alec.

Alec has the advantage of C lances and Javelins for options, but you are limited to 2 in the first generation so they are highly contested

By whom? By Chapter 2, Finn already has his Hero Lance, which he would much rather use on the Player Phase than a Javelin. Fury is better off with a Magic Sword than a Javelin. Cuan starts with one, which leaves one for either Alec, Noish, or Sigurd. Sigurd is amazing and doesn't need a Javelin, and Alec is better than Noish. Alec can have a Javelin.

and are at best situational to use since they almost negate any evasion bonus from WTA due to weight.

Nearly being the keyword. It should be noted that C lances provides Alec with the ability to use the Horseslayer, which greatly helps him against the Cross Knights and other assorted Mounted enemies.

Beowulf now has options for A swords which are better than B lances, unless you want to give Alec the hero lance.

Speaking of the Hero Lance, Alec is the second best candidate for it. Go figure.

Beowulf probably should have had a greater overall level lead, due to starting at a higher level than Alec at that point probably and being better in the arena due to better offense so he probably should have promoted earlier than Alec did.

Assuming this is the start of Chapter 4, which is around promotion time, if I remember correctly, Beo hasn't been able to fight enough enemies to make use of his supposedly better offense. Chapter 3 is split up between the Cross Knights and the Pirates. Even with 3 arenas, Beo is barely reaching promotion.

This is ignoring Alec's pre-Chapter 2 contributions, of course. He's the 3rd best fighter in those chapters, which is easily enough to push him above Beo.

By the way, for those who remember it, I still think Lachesis needs to drop a lot. Same with Briggid.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Ninji

[Biabarr]

Midir is better than Bridget and Jamuka O.o ....That is so not the case when I play

[_____]

Briggid and Jamka don't have mounts, which is a really huge deal. Briggid also doesn't appear until the end of Chapter 3, which really hurts her.

[chrysalid]

Lachesis completely depends on when she's allowed to be considered promoted. You could favor her and say 2 or you could say Return spamming is anti-efficiency and she can't promote until she's squeezed out 90 shots of Relive by the middle of chapter 4.

Edit - Not 90 but you know what I mean.

Edited April 2, 2010 by chrysalid

[_____]

I tend to think the latter. On Ranked, at least, her EXP whoring makes sense since it actually helps us. She's just dead weight now, though. Even if she's better in Chapter 4 and 5, that doesn't make up for someone like Alec beating her in the Prologue to Chapter 4.

[Zakaerys]

Yeah, Brigid and Jamka need to go down. They can only kill one enemy a turn, maybe another if they get attacked at one range. Aideen needs to go up though. She gets access to the Warp staff, which is a major help in chapters 2, 3, and 4. She doesn't need to go too high, just above the likes of Noish.

[_____]

Aideen suffers from the same problem that Briggid and Jamka suffer from. Her 5 move makes her nearly worthless.

[Momo]

Aideen has Reblow though, so she can at least try to be useful.

I think Fin's a little too low. Same availability as Cuan and Ethlin, and does great with the Hero Lance. Even if Fury is better, is it really by a tier?

[chrysalid]

Insofar as efficiency is turncount, I think unpromoted Lachesis isn't helping enough NOT to have her staff spam, aside from tying up the staff and a bad unit to be her target. I wouldn't give her Sylvia to speed it up like I would in ranked but if she Return spams from like turn 10 of chapter 2 she'll promote in mid Chapter 3, maybe in time to kill uselessly weak pirates. She'll be a key unit in Chapter 4 and decent in Chapter 5 I guess. Most of the units on the list are never key and I think never-key units shouldn't ever be ranked above units that are key for any significant length of time.

10 reach Libra makes 5 move with no canter a lot less terrible for Aideen, and she's only realistic Libra holder in 3 and she has a good case in 4.

[_____]

Aideen has Reblow though, so she can at least try to be useful.

Relive is C rank, so Ethlin can use, too. Ethlin probably needs it since her Magic is pretty bad, anyway.

I think Fin's a little too low. Same availability as Cuan and Ethlin, and does great with the Hero Lance. Even if Fury is better, is it really by a tier?

I tend to agree with you there, to be honest.

Insofar as efficiency is turncount, I think unpromoted Lachesis isn't helping enough NOT to have her staff spam, aside from tying up the staff and a bad unit to be her target. I wouldn't give her Sylvia to speed it up like I would in ranked but if she Return spams from like turn 10 of chapter 2 she'll promote in mid Chapter 3, maybe in time to kill uselessly weak pirates.

I wasn't saying that Lachesis wouldn't Staff Spam. It's all she's good at unpromoted. I was saying, however, that her staff spamming was not a positive, unlike in Ranked, and I believe her contributions in Chapter 4 and 5 don't make up for that.

She'll be a key unit in Chapter 4 and decent in Chapter 5 I guess. Most of the units on the list are never key and I think never-key units shouldn't ever be ranked above units that are key for any significant length of time.

Key is an overstatement. What makes her key, exactly?

10 reach Libra makes 5 move with no canter a lot less terrible for Aideen, and she's only realistic Libra holder in 3 and she has a good case in 4.

I didn't think of that.

Edit: I've just been informed that I am a derp and that Reblow = Libro, not Relive.

Luckily, I picked up on Chrysalid mentioning it.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Ninji

[Momo]

Relive is C rank, so Ethlin can use, too. Ethlin probably needs it since her Magic is pretty bad, anyway.

I meant Aideen's flaw of 5 move doesn't hurt her as badly as it does Briggid and Jamka. Even when she's far away from the team, she can still heal them. She's your only healer that's around the entire time though, so I think she's kind of low. Problem is though, I dunno where I'd put her.

[_____]

I meant Aideen's flaw of 5 move doesn't hurt her as badly as it does Briggid and Jamka. Even when she's far away from the team, she can still heal them. She's your only healer that's around the entire time though, so I think she's kind of low. Problem is though, I dunno where I'd put her.

Yeah, I just figured out what you meant. q_q

The thing about Aideen, at least for me, is that she's always a second-rate healer. Fury and Lachesis are getting Staves right around when Ethlin leaves.

[Salad Utensil]

Don't blow things out of proportions. Beowulf has 1 more HP and 1 more Defense at base than Alec if he procs his HP. When they reach 20, that switches to a 2 HP lead only. Alec also has a 5 Avoid lead at base in addition to the weapon triangle control that Lances give him.

It's a marginal lead at best. Skimming over the Chapter 3 enemy stats, which I should probably provide a link to in the first post, I don't see anything that the extra Strength lead allows Beowulf to KO faster than Alec.

Proving a character is marginally better means they are better yes? Besides those comparison were only done out of convenience, a 1 level lead for Beowulf is probably more accurate unless Alec is getting a lot of favoritism.

By whom? By Chapter 2, Finn already has his Hero Lance, which he would much rather use on the Player Phase than a Javelin. Fury is better off with a Magic Sword than a Javelin. Cuan starts with one, which leaves one for either Alec, Noish, or Sigurd. Sigurd is amazing and doesn't need a Javelin, and Alec is better than Noish. Alec can have a Javelin.

[/Quote]

You conveniently forgot Fin, Fury is barely different with magic sword before promotion. What you said in bold really makes it seem like he should get a Javelin. Wouldn't 1-2 range be good for Sigurd since he has the most move?

Nearly being the keyword. It should be noted that C lances provides Alec with the ability to use the Horseslayer, which greatly helps him against the Cross Knights and other assorted Mounted enemies.

Yay? those things that get 1-2RKOed and Alec won't even be able to double with the horse-slayer and unless he gets enough strength can't 1HKO either.

Speaking of the Hero Lance, Alec is the second best candidate for it. Go figure.

And this system of ranking who makes the best use of a weapon comes from where? I can claim that Noish is the best user or it and Alec is the worst...I'm not inclined to believe this claim that you pulled out of nowhere

Assuming this is the start of Chapter 4, which is around promotion time, if I remember correctly, Beo hasn't been able to fight enough enemies to make use of his supposedly better offense. Chapter 3 is split up between the Cross Knights and the Pirates. Even with 3 arenas, Beo is barely reaching promotion.

This is ignoring Alec's pre-Chapter 2 contributions, of course. He's the 3rd best fighter in those chapters, which is easily enough to push him above Beo.

I guess he's good in the Prolouge where Sigurd kills everything he encounters/leaves in kill range. I guess he is a good dodger in chapter 1 until he becomes hindered too much for the second part of the map due to forests. In chapter 2 he is nothing special and 3RKOs Armour Knights and can pick up kills from those weakened Cavaliers trying to kill Lachesis

3rd compared to who? Sigurd is better in Everyway. Fin may get 3HKOed, but has prayer and can 1RKO or borderline that back. Lex is way more durable and has elite and the hero axe. Azel 1RKOs everything. Jamka/Midir can kill anything with that killer bow, Ethlin can feasibly reach promotion by chapter 3 and is the best healer for a long time and gets good promotion bonuses, Ayra has wtf offense and is also 3HKOed depending on the enemies. Cuan hits almost as much in 1 hit as Alec does in two and is more durable than Lex at early points in the game, Fury can fly and starts with B lances and swords, Levin is able to 2HKO all the enemies he starts near and has a decent shot at getting a critical or a continue, Lachesis can at least heal. He beats in every way are you: Adean, Deu, Noish, and Sylvia, and Arden

Edited April 3, 2010 by Brighton

[Salad Utensil]

Do we give credit for parenting? Do we assume level 30 for parents?

I only ever play ranked style so this is not super authoritative, but:

I wouldn't put anyone on a horse before promotion lower than high tier, and I wouldn't put anyone that can't counter during enemy phase and isn't holding a staff above mid tier (excepting Midir, who is a twofer there and deserves high tier). Alec, Noishe, Beowulf etc. are always in the thick of the top 2-3 most important parts of getting a map done like Sigurd's Gradius options and I don't care how crummy their stats are.

The snipers/bowfighters are overrated; there's not any place where they make a serious difference in Gen 1. A sniper with a whoaaaaomg player phase needs to kill superpowered bosses and stuff to be making a difference, not overkilling some poor gimp sword armor or something when charge/continue goes off. At least Midir's player-phase-only existence has a canter after it.

I'd put Arden and Deirdre above Tiltyu. Arden helps in prologue and helps a tiny bit in chapter 1, and is pretty decent in that canyon fight in chapter 2 with a slim sword and his pursuit ring; Deirdre does her silence and is your only option for pre-empting the canyon ballistas entirely. Tiltyu is an empty sack in efficiency and you have so many more units by that point getting things done that there's not even any small errands to set her after.

I mean sure Alec and Noish can get to the enemy in time, but when they can't RKO an armor knight together...weapon rank is so much more important.

You have to remember that in many parts of mid to late game 1RKOing or at least putting enemies in kill range is rare past chapter 1 so being able have good player phase and getting a dangerous enemy out of the way is important.

I mean the problem with Arden is he will probably be under leveled due to killing rarely and having bad move so his durability is suspect, when he gets doubled by those sword fighters, bow fighters, and gets a good chunk of his HP taken out by mages

Edited April 3, 2010 by Brighton

[Momo]

Yeah, I just figured out what you meant. q_q

The thing about Aideen, at least for me, is that she's always a second-rate healer. Fury and Lachesis are getting Staves right around when Ethlin leaves.

Lachesis can only use Life, Relive and Return, meaning her healing is very limited. Aideen's a better healer than her, at least until Lachesis promotes (no idea when this would be). Fury's getting 14 levels in less than half a chapter? Even after she promotes, it's still rank C in staves.

[_____]

Proving a character is marginally better means they are better yes?

There's a big difference between being marginally better statwise and being better.

You conveniently forgot Fin

Finn was the first person I listed.

Fury is barely different with magic sword before promotion

There's no reason for her not to use one, then.

What you said in bold really makes it seem like he should get a Javelin. Wouldn't 1-2 range be good for Sigurd since he has the most move?

Sigurd does not even want a Javelin. He's durable enough that taking a counter on the Player Phase never matters. Using a Javelin is just gimping his offense.

Yay? those things that get 1-2RKOed and Alec won't even be able to double with the horse-slayer and unless he gets enough strength can't 1HKO either.

1-2RKO'd by whom? The Cross Knights are some of the hardest non-boss enemies you face in all of the first Generation. Being able to knock their HP down to single digits is good enough.

And this system of ranking who makes the best use of a weapon comes from where? I can claim that Noish is the best user or it and Alec is the worst...I'm not inclined to believe this claim that you pulled out of nowhere

It seems obvious enough to me. The only real competitors for the Hero Lance at this point are Fury and Alec. You can try to say that Noish is a better candidate, but Noish is worse than Alec, and it's doubtful that Noish is promoting by the start of Chapter 4, since his offense really blows prior to that.

I guess he's good in the Prolouge where Sigurd kills everything he encounters/leaves in kill range.

Sigurd is a God among ants, but the ants still act.

I guess he is a good dodger in chapter 1 until he becomes hindered too much for the second part of the map due to forests.

All of the enemies prior to the final castle's enemies in this chapter are fodder for Alec and his newly acquired Steel Sword, which Sigurd has no need for. He's 2RKOing everything. I'd go as far as to say that Alec is better than Cuan in this chapter. It should also be noted that he's the best unit to lure Ayra with, period.

In chapter 2 he is nothing special and 3RKOs Armour Knights and can pick up kills from those weakened Cavaliers trying to kidnap Lachesis

Elliot's zerg rush is pretty easy for mounted units like Alec to stop, especially since Elliot has a lot of Axe Knights with him. The Free Knights that Beo comes with are fodder as well.

Sigurd is better in Everyway.

Of course. Thank you for proving that Alec is not Sigurd. I tip my hat to you.

Fin may get 3HKOed, but has prayer and can 1RKO or borderline that back.

Nice try. Hit rates against Finn are humongous, and he's 2RKOing just like Alec. Actually, Finn has worse offense than Alec, too, because he has an actual chance of missing Axe Fighters.

Lex is way more durable and has elite and the hero axe.

Lex is stuck with Iron/Steel until Chapter 2. He's a little more durable, but his offense is absolutely dreadful, and he barely does anything in the Prologue.

Azel 1RKOs everything.

With 5 move, no durability, and the ability to never kill anything in the arena, ever.

Jamka/Midir can kill anything with that killer bow

Jamka doesn't have a horse, Midir doesn't have the Killer Bow until Chapter 2, and they both lack Player Phases.

Ethlin can feasibly reach promotion by chapter 3 and is the best healer for a long time and gets good promotion bonuses

Ethlin's healing is nice, for sure, but I wasn't counting her in my list. Her combat is God awful, and her possible promotion in Chapter 3 seems very far-fetched to me.

Ayra has wtf offense and is also 3HKOed depending on the enemies

No horse, does nothing until Chapter 2, etc.

Cuan hits almost as much in 1 hit as Alec does in two and is more durable than Lex at early points in the game

Thanks for pointing out the second person who is better than Alec.

Fury can fly and starts with B lances and swords, Levin is able to 2HKO all the enemies he starts near and has a decent shot at getting a critical or a continue

I was speaking strictly of earlygame.

By the way, Alec > Levin in Chapters 2 and 3. 2HKOing vs. 2-3HKOing on a horse with more durability.

Lachesis can at least heal.

Worse than Aideen when it comes to it.

I don't see your point. If anything, you've proven mine.

[Salad Utensil]

Lachesis can only use Life, Relive and Return, meaning her healing is very limited. Aideen's a better healer than her, at least until Lachesis promotes (no idea when this would be). Fury's getting 14 levels in less than half a chapter? Even after she promotes, it's still rank C in staves.

Fury does get 8 flight moves though so she basically replaces Ethlin except she can actually fight. Lachesis gets 9 moves after promoting. Though I agree Lachesis is easily a worse healer than Adean prepromotion, but Lachesis has easier access to money outside of Deu due to arena (prayer sword FTW) and the thief sword.

[chrysalid]

Key is an overstatement. What makes her key, exactly?

Hmm, she fills the necessary mounted healer gap left by Ethlin except she's much better at it (charisma + pass her Reserve or Recover) and is very competent in player phase offense if needed.

I gotta admit that the above is where my efficiency play authority breaks down because I just staff spam Fury for ranked in chapter 4 so I don't know how effective she is with a C Relive, without which Lach is obviously vital.

[_____]

By that point, you already have Claude and his Reserve staff and, even if Fury is not promoted by Chapter 4, she will be soon. Lachesis' healing isn't vital. Her combat is very good in Chapter 4, I admit that, but key is overdoing it. I am of the belief that her great performance in Chapter 4 and decent performance in Chapter 5 does not make up for her nonexistence in the Prologue to Chapter 2 and then her almost nonexistence in Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 against someone like Alec.

[Salad Utensil]

There's a big difference between being marginally better statwise and being better.

[/Quote]

I agree, this much is obvious

Finn was the first person I listed.

sorry missed that

There's no reason for her not to use one, then.

So Beowulf can be allowed to use a magic sword too...right?

Sigurd does not even want a Javelin. He's durable enough that taking a counter on the Player Phase never matters. Using a Javelin is just gimping his offense.

There are times where he might want one, for instance even Sigurd gets 2-3HKOed by some of those bosses that have silvers (lances).

1-2RKO'd by whom? The Cross Knights are some of the hardest non-boss enemies you face in all of the first Generation. Being able to knock their HP down to single digits is good enough.

They are? I must be playing incorrectly then.

It seems obvious enough to me. The only real competitors for the Hero Lance at this point are Fury and Alec. You can try to say that Noish is a better candidate, but Noish is worse than Alec, and it's doubtful that Noish is promoting by the start of Chapter 4, since his offense really blows prior to that.

Even Sigurd can't 1RKO some things with just a silver and pursuit, he might actually want it too. Noish improves significantly with a hero lance as now he can finally double and kill things sometimes. Fury has the greatest chance to quadruple things with it too and she can go from 2-3HKOs to guaranteed 1RKOs on any generic except for bosses. So I disagree here. Even so Fin and Cuan don't leave until chapter 3's end so they may want to use it too which only limits say Alec's time with it meaning he's stuck being bad at combat.

Below stuff stopped becoming relevant, but I'll address it anyway in case you want to continue arguing it.

All of the enemies prior to the final castle's enemies in this chapter are fodder for Alec and his newly acquired Steel Sword, which Sigurd has no need for. He's 2RKOing everything. I'd go as far as to say that Alec is better than Cuan in this chapter. It should also be noted that he's the best unit to lure Ayra with, period.

He gets hit twice by Aira and gets put to like 3 HP then runs away, this doesn't make him the second best character in this chapter.

Elliot's zerg rush is pretty easy for mounted units like Alec to stop, especially since Elliot has a lot of Axe Knights with him. The Free Knights that Beo comes with are fodder as well.

Noish can too, which says how bad these enemies are. So can Fin, Cuan, Lex, Ethlin (with light sword), Sigurd, and any foot unit except Arden, Deu, and Adean.

Nice try. Hit rates against Finn are humongous, and he's 2RKOing just like Alec. Actually, Finn has worse offense than Alec, too, because he has an actual chance of missing Axe Fighters.

Fin has high 90 hit rates against those Axe fighters and he is able to 1RKO the 36 HP ones and 2RKO those 45HP ones. Fin has better offense against everything except he archers (hunters?) where he can't double, but can with the speed ring. Don't believe me? play chapter 1 and the prologue again. Those Axes weigh the enemies down a lot. Fin can switch to a Steel lance in chapter 1 since Cuan goes from 2RKOing with a steel to 2RKOing with an iron. While Fin goes from 2RKOing to 1RKOing from the switch.

Lex is stuck with Iron/Steel until Chapter 2. He's a little more durable, but his offense is absolutely dreadful, and he barely does anything in the Prologue.

With steel Lex can 2HKO most things provided he's at a reasonable level and he is at better durability.

With 5 move, no durability, and the ability to never kill anything in the arena, ever.

[/Quote]

I'm pretty sure that Azel is actually better in the arena than Alec due to being able to get past those armor units if he gets 1 lucky dodge. In the arena offense is more important than durability.

Jamka doesn't have a horse, Midir doesn't have the Killer Bow until Chapter 2, and they both lack Player Phases.

Jamuka is good because he has good player phase and decent durability outside of that, Midir is decent even without the killer bow and is at least as good player phase as Alec with Iron, his arena time is also much easier to manage (and charge lets him 1RKo sometimes).

Ethlin's healing is nice, for sure, but I wasn't counting her in my list. Her combat is God awful, and her possible promotion in Chapter 3 seems very far-fetched to me.

Ethlin gains 35EXP a pop from Return has access to all of Cuan's money (since Cuan gets his weapons for free and is actually good in the arena), can access the arena, and is basically useless once you have to pass that forest in chapter 1, this means he has like ~20 turns of being useless so you might as well gain her 7 levels during this time.

No horse, does nothing until Chapter 2, etc.

Forests in chapter 1 make Foot units better to get to that army at the final castle and Jamka easier than horses. Chapter 2 is only rushing at the beginning and at some point your units will need to meet back at Nodian when the last 2 castles stop being neutral. Chapter 2 is not the whole game too.

I don't see your point. If anything, you've proven mine.

You will have to explain the bolded for me because I'm too stupid to understand the warrants for your claim there. Actually nevermind.

Fine I'll sum this up for you. I won't bother to provide any warrents for my claims this time since you don't either:

Prologue: Alec is decent, but unremarkable(better than Azel, Arden, and Noish. About as good as Midir. Worse than Fin, Lex, Cuan, Sigurd, Ethlin)

Chapter 1: Alec is decent until Gandalf dies and then becomes pretty useless for the last castle

Chapter 2: Alec>Beowulf (due to being there longer)

Chapter 3: Beowulf>Alec

Chapter 4: Beowulf promotes and is>>than Alec, Then Alec promotes and Beowulf is just >Alec

Chapter 5: Both are promoted and Beowulf is still>than Alec

Edited April 3, 2010 by Brighton