How should we handle a long-term Lunatic tier list?

[Chiki]

It doesn't make sense at all to ignore Galeforce and Rescue for the sake of being a gentleman. But I guess that's what people want. =_=

[XeKr]

I understand. I didn't mean to say we shouldn't have to provide those details, just that the way things have gone, it's a bit difficult for us to simply explain. This might not be a great example, but it's the first thing that comes to mind: when I was learning to drive, I kept failing the test while only my parents were teaching me. I finally passed when my sister helped me. We came to the conclusion that my parents had just done it for so long that what they did was ingrained in them and they didn't actually know what it took to pass the test.

I understand as well. Just I’m of the opinion that this metric satisfyingly explains many of the intuitive conclusions that have been reached in previous tier lists. Such as why, in general, Jagens are good, Ests are bad, mounted/flying units dominate, Dancers are good, etc.

We can slow down for Donnel. It's just that the amount of slowing down required isn't worth it for the payoff.

How are you defining payoff here though? Donnel becomes an immortal 1-2 range one-rounding god, fairly quickly after he reclasses. Nowi just requires less turns to get there (maybe…) and she’s appropriately ranked much higher. If we’re then thinking in terms of turns, both still require a really large number compared to the Veteran characters.

If I'm reading this right: the idea still is to tend toward lower turns. Units who can cut more turns still get ranked higher, it's just not so strict in the sense that certain units can't get any experience or that these turn cuts always happen.

Okay, like I said, I don’t think we really disagree that much.

I don’t think there’s any place itt where there’s nitpicking over a single turn or so (it’s something that’s typically covered by the reliability constraint). We aren’t saying various characters can never get that exp, we’re saying it requires substantially slowing down to get that exp. There have been concessions in terms of character roles in varying team compositions. I apologize if my earlier wording implied that Sully is “trash” or “useless”, just that I think she’s less efficient (requires much slower and/or less reliable clears) than many others.

[Donnel]

Can measure in min-max and highest total rating for the entire game after possible pair up in a single play though?

Might be difficult to do when the permutation is so high.