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cool game and cool people, rapier you did great

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Oh yeah, that EvilG fella. He's probably town as I don't think he would make himself obvious, even if he might be a bit noobish, I would pay close attention to the people who will try and mislynch him later on if anything.

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I'm sick of defending myself, let's talk about the people in this game shall we? I'll say that this game is quite hard to post in as you have a case of where certain people have complete control of the thread and are pushing discussion/avenues that they want, and then others who haven't really done so much beyond elaborate for the person they're voting (I'll give you a hint: most of them is for me).

I don't think Prims is scum for trying to CC me in a way that isn't explict but hinting on to as why he thinks I could be scum based on my role alone, in fact it's quite townie. I haven't fully had any problems with Prims at all either and so far he's been sensible and I enjoy most of what he's posted. I don't want to hear someone tell me I'm fishing here but I would honestly like to know what it is that somehows contradicts my role? If I'm directly speaking to prims here, you've essentially put yourself as a target for scum anyways so there really isn't any point to mince words here.

Omega on surface is really good but it might be the playstyle difference that is throwing me for a loop. I hesitate on townreading him because I know he is not a slacker at this game and that what I mostly feel for Omega is that I agree with him a lot but I'm not seeing him get heated with the discussion as much as I'd like to. It is almost safe in a manner and I hope he calls me out on it because right now I'm not content with the way he has been playing this game, and I'm wondering why everyone else is for that matter.

Larsa's being..really weird right now. I don't know where to take my read on Larsa at the moment and unlike Omega where I think his surface is good, I think it's scatterbrained and really hard to read because from an objective viewpoint because Larsa spends too much time fluffing up his posts with longwinded conclusions that are an eyesore to read. I wouldn't call it necessarily scummy at the moment but I will say that his alignment will be easy to figure out following his consistent he is on his claims and how he has been moving forward with the game.

Randa is simple vigbait and I don't feel like talking about him, I would hammer if someone asked me to. I think the lynch today needs to be between a Randa/Gorf if you want me to be honest but maybe I'm again the crazy man taking pills to not town-read Gorf here; maybe the people town-reading him could tell me more why he is somehow town? I haven't seen him progress his read on me at all and he's just been sitting on his vote this whole time, I'm not sure where that's townie.

Speaking of vote

unvote

Rapier's fine and I don't think I'm going to get anything out of him anymore. Everyone else not mentioned here needs to do some legwork as I don't feel like reading someone who isn't there half of the time.

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Larsa, I'm not sure what tunnel goggles you've managed to glue to your head but it's wrong. I think I run a much higher risk to fully claim all of my role aspects over not explictly revealing something, wouldn't you think? This is all rather conjecture on my part because you can keep telling me that somehow this coincides with me being scum but I don't know how much of a fool you'll feel when you see I'm not lying about anything. I can't tell why the mod has disclosed it to me, but I can tell you that if I were to guess that 'compensation' works as a trigger of some sort, and I don't see how that's bastard and nor do I see why you think this is somehow a crucial point into why I'm scum. I've wanted to town-read you but boy you are playing so dense to the possibility to me being town right now that I somehow got a second wind to tell you how you need to start reading me as a player instead of reading me as a role that I claimed, and I completely hold to claiming said role because the last thing I want is to get myself mislynched if I can stop it, so literally don't tell me that it's 'anti-town' or 'town doesn't have incentive' to do that because it's in my complete right to ensure I do what I think is best.

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[spoiler=because god this post was long]

i feel like your posts made more sense when i was drunk. anyways this reads like me in reclass wrt the sb thing. you make it so you have at least some grounds for a later lynch on the slot, without actually showing any conviction to the lynch. (that still doesnt sound right but i spent a solid ten minutes trying to figure out the wording.)

this seems to be trying to excuse a lack of posting thoughts on rvs, when we were already out of rvs. that seems logically flawed.

one this was unnecessarily snarky imo. two you answered your question. this means the question you asked was an attempt to feign content. which is scummy.

sorry, in rereading your opinions are more clear and i just wasn't reading very well. also i surprisingly agree with this post.

psych actually posting in a game. nope ruined my hopes. also since you are mayor you must clearly be an sk.

wait there are people who can read psych correctly. all i remember is turbo'ing him in ittd and he flipped doc.

where did i put that whiskey.

i had something to say about this post. now i forgot. uhh itll come back to me.

idk. like it was pretty obvious in retrospect.

environmental clash probably. using votes to get answers is very common on sf.

i dont remember rapier ever defending me though. also yes i get the same vibes from dewound as i did marth in qprouge, lo and behold i was correct then. but im not getting the same town vibes from you.

i am about as legal as i was 4 years ago. so not in the slightest hasnt stopped me before. and ftr i was drunk day 1 of smt as well and you were scum with me then so i can be drunk as either alignment. and it should not be a factor on my alignment,

aside from that though i agree with the rest of this post.

southern comfort is great though. it gets me drunk quicker than jak's or jameisons.

long ass wall post that for the most part i agree with. except go back and read smt.

seriously i might need to be drunk to understand some of these post.

less snark please.

only amazing not fucking amazing. so go go turbo refa!

##unvote

## vote refa

this is bad and you should feel bad. im kinda compelled to turbo you for this ngl.

so thats not a lot of original content. well whatever idc. i really cant seem to get my feet under me atm so.

also ## unvote

## vote:mancer

i feel like you have been around plenty and have had more than enough opportunities to actually put out your thoughts and i just havent got a townie feeling from what thoughts you have put out.

Are you trying to play this game? You're just idly commenting on things that don't go anywhere in the first place.

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I'm not reading your post Larsa, I don't have anything to argue as I know what role I am and I know what I've done, you don't need to feel justified in telling me how it is.

@Prims, I asked the mod about it and he basically told me that I'll have to wait and see, otherwise it does nothing. I could try it tonight at the least.

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Rapier, I'm gonna be honest with you. I got in over my head about you about your play and admitted that I was at fault and am willing to let bygones be bygones. I really didn't want to play this game where I had to constantly explain myself, and it's alarming to me that what I feel, from my perspective, I have been given all I could possibly. It's a moot point though and Larsa/Omega would tell me that I'm being emotional again, when really emotions play in part of my actions and why I do things. It's a facet of my playstyle that doesn't really go away. I'm not asking for pity, I just want people to understand where I'm coming from when I inevitably flip town.

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Breaking down this horrible wagon if I can see it. Sorry if the way we see things don't mesh but you're really on the wrong track and I simply don't want to deal with arguing about myself all the damn time. I'm Steve Vai, Town role-blocker/enabler. I don't know what the enabling explictly does nor have I asked, but I have been told by the mod that I can give people 'compensation', which must play a part in enabling someone's role to work or something like that?

If you want to lynch me still despite this, then at least give me time to fully post my thoughts.

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Well, Refa/Gorf both seem too complacent for my taste, Gorf especially. I didn't really care to go into it because I really wanted to deal with the whole Rapier thing, but it sort of dealt with itself. My read on Gorf can be summarized that he dropped Mancer immediately over an issue I had with not liking mancer, but that read on Mancer never went anywhere. I would think that both a townie and Gorf himself would delve more into it instead of dropping it off completely.

Refa looks like either a slow thinker or the type of scum who promises to post content but never gets around to it.

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dewound at this point I would suggest spending less time talking about doing things and more time actually doing them.

Well who knows, maybe if I do too much I'll be trying too hard to be town also according to you?

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I thought your reluctancy to vote was based on clashing metas, but it seems it isn't. You are also intentionally being reluctant to townreading Mancer, your "perhaps" makes it explicit. If you are uncertain of your reasons why Mancer is town and admits they are mostly part of how you feel about him, how can you state that you believe he is townie or go as far as to defend him? Your post #194 tells us that you're not even sure of your case on me. I wonder, are you really scumhunting or deliberately pretending to scumhunt? Your lack of assertiveness on your reads is very odd.

Huh? I don't understand where you came to the conclusion that I'm reluctant to town-read Mancer? You're looking far too into my wording here if you think me saying 'perhaps' there is somehow worse if I said something like 'probably' or even 'possibly.' I will admit that I have been feeling less confident on you, and would say if I were to jump off you I would look more towards Refa/Gorf, as I'm almost ready to submit that I was wrong about you initially as I feel I'm becoming a broken record.

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Alright, been looking over the content since I stopped posting.

My result: dewound is mafia.

"Waiting for scum" is understandable when most of the game hasn't posted, but it wasn't the case when dewound made his empty post. Instead he had to be pressed several times to out and focus on his Rapier read which he made sound like something he genuinely believed in... and if he did there was no reason for him to "wait and see". Why not make his Rapier suspicion clear from the beginning? Probably because it's not real and he's trying to mimic a fluid town process but can't and just ends up being Weird.

When you say "waiting for scum", do you mean Rapier? He was the only person who has said something like this. I had to be pressed? I practically gave it to you on a silver platter, willingly. There was no pushing or prodding needing to be done, though I will admit I wanted to keep it to myself until I actually heard from Rapier himself. I..didn't make it clear? You sure you're reading the right game? I didn't blatantly say 'guys I think Rapier is scum' immediately but I would think that anyone with a brain could realize that I was trying to play it off of Rapier's responses before I came to the conclusion, but I felt pressured to just outright say it and then spent like a whole page trying to tell people why it is.

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I have a question to anyone who has decided to jump from me to Mancer: do you still scum read Mancer and shifting priority, or do you think that he shouldn't be the lynch anymore?

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I just don't see the association you're claiming at all. I also don't see the problem with what you're saying your issue is with him, that's a town thing to do...

Oh? In what way is it town? I don't think it's townie to instantly make a judgment call as a double standard by implying that it's not really a judgment call until they 'give more content.' I would say that this is quite different for me because Rapier has been backing it up so at this point I almost feel reluctant in backing down from Rapier as he's been proving my initial assumptions of him wrong.

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I'm sorry, but what you felt is too subjective to be taken objectively in the game's context. You -feel- that Mancer is town, but do you have any other objective basis for it? I assume not, since you haven't shown any. So, your Mancer read seems shallow and weak.

I'm not sure if I should take your reluctancy to vote me as bad or not. In SF Mafia, we see it as uncommitment to a scumread. If you find someone scummy, why not vote them? Why wait so long?

I suppose I do, if we're speaking objective in the sense of what they said specifically and how I feel about them in general, I rather liked his #59 in particular and didn't feel he was cracking under pressure like everyone else was stating he was. I see a lot of Mancer in myself so perhaps it's just inherent that I town-read those behaviors because he does a lot of what I would do as town.

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I don't believe I've flown off the handle once at someone, stating that 'i am frustrated' is just to accentuate my point.

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Why is Mancer town? You said several times that you are townreading him, but you never explicitely told us why, IIRC. Also, what is scummy within my playstyle? What is wrong with pushing other players for content when there is little?

Again, you're another person who I feel is not reading me fully and that frustrates me. I've said many times that my Mancer read was inherently a feeling, and something I tried to summarize of what I felt initially. Do you disagree with it and why?

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Man, this is not how I wanted to play this game at all...

dewound needs to vote someone and actually start scum hunting instead of defending me. I can defend myself if I feel that I need to. Instead of defending me, you should be attacking the players whose cases (on me) you think are scummy. You make me think of Bluedoom in Qprogue, when he claimed how obviously town I was and tried to ride and coast along his read on me.

This hurts coming from the guy I'm defending given I've been trying to make it clear why I think Rapier is scum, like...all last night.

Then in #121 he talks about how he will gladly defend people he thinks are town and spend paragraphs doing so, but in #123 he just says he's not scumreading Mancer. ~Semantics but not scumreading != townreading and other than just go "man this Mancer wagon sucks" and "hey Mancer made some good points" there isn't an actual reason given for why Mancer is town at any point. Reads like white-knighting to me.

It's possible this is just playstyle differences but looking at dewound posting about Rapier, the more and more he explains his read there the more and more I don't get why he isn't voting there. I mean, I don't agree with his Rapier read necessarily, but he keeps saying that he doesn't feel that this is how a townie would act, and if that's the case why isn't his vote there?

I don't believe it would change anything, as I feel I've made myself clear that I clearly don't like him and that my actions should say more than just a vote. If people are really getting on me about the fact that me not voting him changes everything then I'm not sure what to say.

Vote: Rapier? Better?

Then in #121 he talks about how he will gladly defend people he thinks are town and spend paragraphs doing so, but in #123 he just says he's not scumreading Mancer. ~Semantics but not scumreading != townreading and other than just go "man this Mancer wagon sucks" and "hey Mancer made some good points" there isn't an actual reason given for why Mancer is town at any point. Reads like white-knighting to me.

It was a general feeling that I stated in my #96, If you had a problem with it you could have directed me to that instead of making me feel like you skimmed. The eagerness I mentioned is yet again, a feeling. I'm getting honestly frustrated that I feel like I'm explaining things to the best of my ability and people are either not getting it or not reading it. I'm not sure why this always happens when I'm town but it does.

4.] Dewound's 87 catches my eye. Boy, there sure are a lot of townies in this game but I'm waiting for the scum. Calling BS on Refa's Prims read as "too soon"; his earlier pardon of Poly shows he's a meta-dependent player and this reads as forced. Prims' pointing out of Dewound's calling Mancer's and Larsa's play fine is gold. Dewoundscum likes to take advantage of various SvT and TvT arguments so he ends up in good standing with both sides. Not liking this.

Do you call BS on my initial statement of Refa itself or do you disagree that it wasn't anything to look at in the first place. I hate pulling 'i was just trying to get what I thought out there'...but that was really it.

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I feel it's one thing to say 'yeah this is scummy and I'm going to vote you for it' and another to say 'yeah, this is scummy, but I know it's pretty weak regardless. I'm gonna vote you, but I wanna make it clear that I'm waiting for you to produce more content until I fully decide whether it is completely scummy or not.' It might be an environment clash thing but I don't see the point of the vote there when you haven't made up your mind or feel you can get something out of it, as I've usually taken votes like this.

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what reactions were you expecting to get here

I wanted to see what he felt about my approach on Mancer and my hard disagreement that I have been actively showing and hopefully I could get him to open up a bit more, maybe even contest me. I just feel that I'm either misreading how someone plays (that he mentions himself) or that I'm being undeniably stubborn of how I feel a townie would go about things, which I'll gladly be contested on as I know I'm not always right.

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EBWOP: Maybe I'm not explaining this hard enough. Let's say you're a townie and you see someone do something scummy but you're not really sure of what the hell it means explicitly. You usually feel things out before coming to straight conclusion because you're unsure right? Rapier didn't do that, he skipped the process of getting the read in general and then played his vote off the fact he wants to see Mancer 'produce more'. It really set me off and wholly decided that even if before I thought the wagon on Mancer was bogus, this was one of the most bogus ways to handle this.

I don't know what you're all seeing in terms of Rapier right now, this is literally his only solid statement regarding Mancer:

Your content is just as subpar as his. The only difference is that you questioned other people about their vote on Larsa, which is slightly better. This doesn't mean your content is good, nor do I buy your initial refusal to pay attention to Larsa's case until pressed by BBM to do so.

This all doesn't summarize what makes this so bad. It doesn't summarize anything, it's a small snippet that ignores the whole picture, and a picture that Rapier himself has *sigh* again, admitted to me personally that he admits is weak as a whole. It's fine to say that you're not always going to be set in stone about something immediately, but it just bothers me.

I'd rather have a weak case on someone than not vote anyone at all. At least this is how I learned to play Mafia on SF, from what I actually managed to learn. So, yes, I acknowledge that my case on Mancer is weak, and I'm quite sane enough not to lynch someone just because they refused to join the discussion until pressed by another player, yet there is little else I could be doing right now. After we actually get more content, I'll be able to read the game more clearly.

It all feels like a sad excuse to vote someone and I simply do not believe the conclusions or reasoning that Rapier has shown or given.

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This is going to be a long and ridiculous game at this rate if someone can't agree with a small consensus without being a 'hipster.'

Your #116 doesn't hold weight in and of itself, also upon reading Rapier's post there... I don't see anything wrong with it. Dude says he has a slight scum read on Mancer, and that's the avenue he's gonna be pursuing, but he wants to see how it develops. I can see you reading into that as wishy washy or non-committal, but the weight your putting behind it is...non-existent really. There's not really any substance there. And really, what Rapier said there isn't anything wrong with. Seems to me he's just letting his frame of mind be known, which makes him transparent in motive and transparency is pro-town.

I see nothing wrong with him as a whole.

There is not much weight beyond the sole impression that I get of how he has handled Mancer, which I literally kept reading his 'I'm comfortable with this until he produces more content' line and I just sat there and felt a migraine coming on with someone sitting on someone like mancer where, again, admits that there isn't shit to go on. It is holding Mancer himself into a standard that will be never fulfilled and looks like he had no reason to be there in the first place. I wanted to keep this to myself for the sake of reactions, but I am forced to bust out about what I felt about it in general, and that honestly irritates me.

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You're being obtuse about the subject at hand because I don't scumread Mancer right now and you can't see my logic, or that you fail to. I ask you what you think about Rapier and you blankly tell me that you haven't looked into or simply don't care. I don't understand how me trying to progress my scum read right now is suddenly 'semantics' or whatever shoehorned terminology you want to throw in there.

Why do you say things like this without substantiating what it means in the first place? I literally don't know the point you're making right now, you're almost telling me I'm wrong about how I read Rapier because you don't read how it is, and that makes me scum I guess?

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your suspicion of scum being on a wagon shouldn't swing whether or not you find the player in question to be scummy. believe it or not scummates bus. going against the grain for its own sake is ironically part of why i think your lack of suspicion is wack.

rapier hasn't really had any sort of impression on me.

I don't like seeing the people who I town-read get wagoned, and I will gladly defend them. I don't why the possibility of scummates bussing matters to me right now fmpov.

I will literally break out a couple of paragraphs of why this wagon blows chunks if I need to, but the reason i asked you about Rapier is because he is one of the people who I think is scum right now if you want me to be blunt, which I've sort of highlighted in #116.

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@MOD Request Votecount

unvote