[Class Changing stuff]

Dunno if any of you remember, but a while ago I'd made topics and eventually a patch with changing everyone's classes, done in a shadow dragon like way changing growths and bases to go along with it. Well I'd been playing my hack of it again recently, and I went back and changed a couple things as well as fixed (I hope) some messed up/buggy things in chapter 10 B route.

I'm wondering if anyone would maybe be interested in playing the patch if I re upload it, or maybe even just seeing a progress log if I do a new playthrough (possibly on HM). If by some chance there's a ton of interest and a lot of people wanna play maybe we could get some kinda drafting tournament or something, since I'd personally like to see how all of the characters do with their new classes and see how some of the stats turn out, and just see some others try it out.

For an example of a class-changed unit, here's Lilina as a peg knight, notice the different bases and growths as compared to her originally as a mage.

Lilina (Pegasus Knight): HP 14 (55%) Str 8 (55%) Skl 7 (20%) Spd 7 (40%) Luck 4 (50%) Def 3 (17%) Res 5 (25%) Con 5

If anyone really wants I could post this stuff for all of the units to see how they're changed in my current version.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Well anyone still interested in seeing a HM playthrough, I have a chapter 1 recorded waiting to be synced which I could still put up.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Alright, I think I will do an upload for HM as well, though I may keep up with the NM file and use some of the not so good units or some others I just want to.

I think I'll be able to upload an ips patch for this tomorrow too if I can find where I should upload it, since I've never really uploaded any files like this(aside from the youtube vids obviously). I made the Dorothy/Thany change and messed around with a few more palettes (Marcus uses Sophia Shaman palette which looks mostly fine IMO, Alan uses Roy's, and a few other changes from characters that haven't been seen yet).

[How do you actually...make/upload a patch?]

Well I've been Nightmare hacking FE6 to change everyone classes/growths similar to how SD does, and I've had a few people ask for a patch of it who've wanted to play it. I have no idea how I'd make a patch with the changes/upload it though. Sorry if it's a dumb question or anything.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Inferior supports as well. Lilina can take her absurdly fast Roy and her decent Gonzales supports, all Dorothy has is like, Saul and maaaaybe Percival.

Saul/Clarine/Percival are possiblities, though Clarine's most likely taken anyways. But since when does Lilina get anything with Roy better than C

? Roy wants Alan+Lance B.

I'll probably ask about it in the hacking thread sometime so I can upload a patch, I'd like to if I can find out how.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Not really, just a lot of changes I liked, some that had cool sprites or interesting results, etc. The best of topic from way back would have needed to be continued for me to do that cause there was a lot of deciding needed.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Dorothy is about as slow as Lilina at the start (and Lilina is bad) and she has worse magic. At least she joins a few chapters earlier, I guess. And has a better spd growth to maybe get out of the "I never double anything ever" hole. Maybe. But probably not (aside from soldiers and armors, of course, but Lilina doubled those too).

And Thany would be a significantly worse version of Clarine given she only has 5 move and can't take part in rescue chains. And her magic is worse. 1 lower base and .05% less growth. At level 20/2 it's still only -2, though, so I suppose it's not the biggest downside.

But I definitely vote for the change if it will encourage you to restart on HM.

20/1 Lilina: HP 27.55 Mag 22.25 Skl 11.8 Spd 13.65 Luck 13.5 Def 4.9 Res 15.65

20/1 Dorothy: HP 32.9 Mag 17.9 Skl 16.65 Spd 15.16 Luck 8.95 Def 4.51 Res 14.8

Well they're closer than I originally thought they would have been, especially with Lili's bigger than I thought magic lead. Dorothy's got HP and speed leads which will increase, while Lili's luck and magic will increase. Dorothy has higher skill but that's not too important to anima users. Let's look later...

20/10 Lilina: HP 31.6 Mag 29 Skl 13.6 Spd 16.8 Luck 18 Def 5.8 Res 18.8 Con 5

20/10 Dorothy: HP 39.2 Mag 24.2 Skl 20.7 Spd 19.48 Luck 12.1 Def 4.78 Res 18.4

It's pretty much the 5 Mag and 6 luck vs 3 Spd, 8 HP, and 7 Skl. I kinda think Dorothy wins since it's not often you'll need all that magic to kill something since enemy res usually sucks, but it's still closer than I thought it would have been. However, Dorothy does join 2.5 chapters earlier with a slight base level lead and might have better support options. But yeah...early game would suck.

BTW, how would I go about making this into a patch, or can I upload it as a gameshark snapshot for people to play? I know at least one person who wants to play it.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Well I just found another change I wanna make that I'm seriously considering despite already starting (or it's perfect reason to start HM maybe...i dunno). I wanna switch Dorothy who's currently a cleric with Thany who's currently a mage. Here are the respective stats.

Dorothy (Mage): HP 18 (70%) Mag 3 (70%) Skl 6 (45%) Spd 4 (48%) Luck 3 (35%) Def 3 (5%) Res 6 (40%)

Thany (Cleric): HP 19 (30%) Mag 1 (25%) Skl 3 (45%) Spd 9 (52%) Luck 5 (60%) Def 3 (6%) Res 9 (50%)

Thany gets a lot worse and is a bit of a worse version of Clarine, while Dorothy becomes pretty awesome aside from defense, but her HP helps make up for that. Oh, and Dorothy looks pretty awesome as a Mage/Sage in my opinion.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Chapter 2 is up!

Here's the starting stats/growths of everyone so far (for those from chapter 1 it's their base, not taking current levels into account). Also, sorry for a few palette's like Dieck and if the quality seems any lower. Miledy's not a dragon knight, she just couldn't change to anything that's unable to move through mountains in this scene.

Roy: HP 18 (80%) Str 5 (40%) Skl 5 (50%) Spd 7 (40%) Luck 7 (60%) Def 5 (35%) Res 0 (30%)

Marcus (Bishop): HP 30 (35%) Mag 6 (35%) Skl 14 (15%) Spd 8 (29%) Luck 10 (20%) Def 4 (11%) Res 13 (43%)

Alan (Archer): HP (80%) Str 6 (45%) Skl 5 (40%) Spd 4 (49%) Luck 3 (40%) Def 4 (25%) Res 0 (8%)

Bors (Mercenary): HP 21 (90%) Str 6 (30%) Skl 10 (35%) Spd 11 (57%) Luck 4 (50%) Def 6 (25%) Res 0 (20%)

Wolt (Cavalier): HP 20 (85%) Str 5 (40%) Skl 3 (50%) Spd 7 (36%) Luck 2 (40%) Def 7 (20%) Res 0 (12%)

Lance (Myrmidon): HP 16 (75%) Str 4 (40%) Skl 13 (45%) Spd 12 (57%) Luck 2 (35%) Def 2 (20%) Res 0 (20%)

Ellen (Myrmidon): HP 15 (65%) Str 3 (55%) Skl 13 (35%) Spd 16 (28%) Luck 8 (70%) Def 1 (12%) Res 1 (27%)

Merlinus (Transporter): HP 15 (100%) Str 0 (0%) Skl 3 (50%) Spd 3 (50%) Luck 10 (100%) Def 3 (20%) Res 0 (5%)

Dieck (Fighter): HP 28 (95%) Str 10 (55%) Skl 6 (35%) Spd 6 (28%) Luck 5 (35%) Def 4 (17%) Res 1 (10%)

Ward (Nomad): HP 24 (55%) Str 8 (25%) Skl 5 (50%) Spd 6 (35%) Luck 4 (45%) Def 5 (28%) Res 0 (10%)

Lot (Knight): HP 26 (75%) Str 7 (15%) Skl 6 (30%) Spd 3 (20%) Luck 2 (30%) Def 11 (53%) Res 1 (10%)

Thany (Mage): HP 19 (35%) Mag 1 (50%) Skl (55%) Spd 9 (55%) Luck 5 (60%) Def 5 (3%) Res 7 (35%)

[Youtube Class Change Run]

For recording, I just recorded using VBA and synced audio with visualdub, which I found from a youtube video. Probably gotta figure out how to compress the files cause they're pretty big, but the quality's fine enough and no audio desync is nice.

About palettes, yeah I wish I coulda made some, but personally I kinda like Marcus'. It's purple, his hair's not too bad, and it kinda looks like he's in some decorated bathrobe or something. The next chapter's characters should have better ones.

EDIT: Except Dieck, who I just now found out about. Apparently his hero palette doesn't transfer perfectly to Fighter, and so now he'll have a *slight* purple outline from the other palette I got, most tolerable one with teal hair anyways. Also, would anyone mind if Alan had blue clothes so I could give him Roy's palette or something? I'll also apologize in advance for any other notably worse sprites, ESPECIALLY Igrene/Fir's. But there are practically no good palettes for Pegs/Falcos, so I just went with what was tolerable to me. Didn't wanna use generic for everyone.

Oh and for Ward, he uses generic so the hair looks black and not brown, but if you want I could change his palette to his own, which makes the horse blue but otherwise it looks fine. Ellen, Lott, and Thany are all pretty much perfect by the way.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

You know, I like the class-changes you did there, except...this is too easy. You have too many sword users, and it's just even more easier if it's in NM. =/

Bors is a freaking beast. Lance doubles right off the bat, even in HM. You should try it.

Yeah, maybe I shoulda gone for HM. However, it's not quite as overpowered as it could be. Bors won't reach Dieck level strength and it'll fall behind at later levels (it'll still be good, but with 30% growth it won't be amazing), Ray would outshine him later too cause Ray has amazing bases. Clarine's worse (nomad), Dieck's worse (not terribly, but I don't think he's top tier as a fighter), Alan's worse, Lugh's a bit worse (you'll see later, being not mage kills his Str/Mag growth), Rutger's a cav so he's ok, and Miledy's a late joining troubadour. Yeah, there are too many swords I guess too, seeing as Ellen and Saul are super speed Myrms (Ellen starts with pathetic 3 Str but 55% growth). Next chapter comes a fighter (Dieck), mage (Thany), nomad (Ward), knight (Lott), and myrmidon (Ellen).

You know, I'd really want to make a tier list off of this if I find out how to patch it and get others playing. Maybe I could do another HM run sometime or if I do make this a patch someone else could do it. There, you'd have the amazingness of HM Wyvern Lord Percival.

[Youtube Class Change Run]

Huh. Bors is actually useful along with Wolt.

I'd actually want to see the changes in bases before you begin each chapter actually. Same with the weapons.

And what are the growth rates for each guy in this chapter?

If you look at the video description I have everyone's stats and growths listed who joined this chapter, as I will whenever new characters join. It's in the part 1 description. For the bases, do you mean you wanna see the difference between the original and new?

[Youtube Class Change Run]

If anyone remembers, a long time ago I'd made a topic or two on changing unit's classes like in SD for this game and seeing their stats and growths. Well I've been using Nightmare to edit my file and ended up changing everyone to another class, and changing their growths as needed (Nightmare changes bases automatically). Now I have the first chapter of a playthrough up if anyone wants to watch:

Part 1 -

Part 2 -

If you want any more details, a list of who's what later on, any specific stats, just let me know and I'll post it for you. Oh and on a side note, the changing let me be a bit creative with starting weapons, so I gave some characters weapons you don't normally obtain. These would be poison weapons, Fimbulvetr, Fenrir, Brave Sword, Rune Sword, and Spear. I'll probably take out most of the chapter intro in future chapters too.

[Interesting Class change results]

Yeah, Miledy would most likely drop out of her wyvern spot if my other topic ever got continued. Heck, I bet Alan and Lance as wyverns would make the game too easy. Saul is also pretty ridiculous as anything thanks to his extremely high speed base, and Ellen just needs a class with a speed growth (mage, myrmidon, pegasus) and she'll be fine too with her high speed base.

[Interesting Class change results]

While I'd have to look at it more to rank better, I'd say the two best classes are Wyvern and Mage, in that order. Wyverns just have flying utility, amazing bases, really good growths (aside from an only average speed growth, but they have 25 base defense growth to make up for it), etc. Mages also have probably the best growths, but they have pretty bad bases.

So far I'd rate something like this as a rough draft for classes, mostly based on growths/bases, and a little bit on usefulness.

High Tier:

Wyverns (great bases and growths)

Mages/Sages (probably the best growths, bad bases, but also one of the best classes anyways due to anima magic)

Upper Mid:

Myrmidons/Swordmasters (Great speed base and skill base, good growths too)

Female Paladins (amazing speed base, use this on Igrene)

Heroes (Female > Male, very good bases, but not too great growths)

Mercenaries (Male > Female, good bases for males, and good growths)

Mid: (Not too sure on order here)

Nomads (Nice growths, especially speed, but should probably be lower)

Pegs/Falcos (Very nice growths, but bad bases, flying utility as well)

Fighters (Might need to be lower, but great Str and HP growths, decent Skl + Spd)

Shamans (decent growths, but ok class, good mag)

Troubadours (best speed, but low magic)

Cavaliers (Decent growths, decent bases, but should probably be higher)

Priests (Outdone by mage in every way, but ok growths)

Lower Mid:

Male Paladins (horrible speed growth)

Pirates (might be higher, good speed base but worse growths than fighter)

Archers (Bad class, ok growths, only ok bases)

Low:

Brigands (bad growths all around, and less than both fighter and pirate)

Knights (terrible speed and not too great everything else besides defense and HP)

[Interesting Class change results]

Gonzakes is even faster and could be tankier as a Fighter, though, his Spd cap will get him stuck at 24. :(

His Skill is also slightly better, exept that as a Berserker he gains +5 Skill, which still makes that class best and also gets a critical bonus.

And really, try out Pirate!Ward, because he gains a Spd boost there.

Uh...Pirates have 5% less speed growth than fighters, so where are you getting the idea that he gains more speed?

Fighter speed growth = 30%

Pirate speed growth = 25%

Unless you meant his bases.

[Interesting Class change results]

This actually makes things interesting, I would have said "just make Bors a wyvern, he'll come earlier and has pretty much the same speed growth as Wendy". Except Wyvern is Class A for males on my system. Oh well.

Bors and Wendy still have amazing base speed growth though. 40% as knight means, from the top of my head I believe... +25% base, which is killer. Bors may actually make an excellent Warrior, I'll check his stats on that later. Gonzo makes a great fighter and probably would make a good anything, since Brigand/Pirate growths suck aside from strength and Gonzo has a + base in strength anyways, so his speed will only get boosted in other classes and his strength will remain high.

For the Warriors-Generals thing I was mainly referring to their sprites. Garret makes a pretty cool looking general (with 6 spd). He's one on my current file for the heck of it.

[Interesting Class change results]

Oh, I've had to mess around with sprites for quite a few characters. For Tate as an archer (she's pretty horrible), I just used Echidna's sprite, Lili uses generic peg/Thany sprite, and some others I've had to mess with.

For some reason though, Warriors and I think Berserkers both transfer over to General perfectly (aside from their lances), but not the other way around.

[Interesting Class change results]

Yeah, thieves become completely broken. Also, are you changing luck at all? For some reason I never do, it doesn't make sense to and SD doesn't. I'll show Wyvern Sophia sometime among with some others.

In general, Gonzales is amazing as anything, and Fir sucks as anything but Myrmidon cause she has no base speed or skill.

[Interesting Class change results]

Why not Myrmidon!Chad?

And Rutger a thief instead?

I didn't change thieves, though I might mess witht their growths sometime.

[Interesting Class change results]

Fixing someone's bases sorta cheats the whole purpose =( But seeing it would be funny I guess.

I followed a Class A/B system though, for both males and females. Only really weird thing about mine is that wyvern is A for males and B for females (cause they have pegs for A).

I have to say too, I completely love Peg knight Lilina.

Lilina: HP 14 (55%) Str 8 (55%) Skl 7 (20%) Spd 7 (40%) Luck 4 (50%) Def 3 (17%) Res 5 (25%) Con 5

Here's mine on my current playthrough:

Level 20/5: HP 29 Str 23* Skl 18 Spd 21 Luck 20 Def 5 Res 10

If anyone really wants I could post how everybody is currently on my edited game. I might start my second playthrough with a different team pretty soon.

[Interesting Class change results]

You know, right now I just tried Pirate!Ward, he was great.

You should try him out. Oh, and forget about Knight!Ward (LOL) & Lott, even Bors does better.

I know, I just brought him up cause that's what he is in my current game. I didn't do the switching so much like FE11, I assigned everyone's classes before the game started, kept them there, and didn't exceed the normal game's limit on any class.

Mercenary Ray is also someone to look at. Pretty sure he starts with 30> HP, 14 Str, 16 Skl, 15 Spd. I'll post his whole stats later.

[Interesting Class change results]

How are you calculating the growths exactly?

I'm looking at the growths for the class itself, and adding or subtracting the character's growths from that for base growths, then apply those to the new class.

Or the easier way is just comparing the two classes and add and subtract the differences on the character itself.

[Interesting Class change results]

Well since the other topic failed and I didn't update it really enough, I might just give up on that discussion idea.

However, I've been editing my own ROM and class swapping everyone and changing their growths respectively, and playing a playthrough of the game, it's quite fun. I think the only units who ended up still in their original classes were Sue, Alan, and Yunno. I wanna tell of some of the...interesting results I came upon though.

First off, some low tiersmost likely: Ward and Lot as knights.

Ward: HP 25 (70%) Str 8 (35%) Skl 3 (45%) Spd 1 (5%) Luck 4 (45%) Def 10 (43%) Res 0 (0%) Con 15

Lot: HP 26 (75%) Str 7 (15%) Skl 6 (30%) Spd 3 (20%) Luck 2 (30%) Def 11 (53%) Res 1 (10%) Con 14

Just look at their amazing speed growths, and Lot's strength and skill. The only thing really standing out to me is Lot's defense, and I'll guess he has the highest Def base growth in the game, atleast for "class B" units. Although I guess in HM they can make early game walls and support eachother.

Niime as a Hero: HP 30 (55%) Str 20 (0%) Skl 27 (15%) Spd 23 (10%) Luck 15 (5%) Def 8 (25%) Res 14 (3%) Con 9

I don't have her yet since I'm not at Ch.19, but amazing bases aside from HP. If she keeps her two A ranks from Druid for both swords and axes, she'd be great for some extra power late game.

Ellen and Saul: Myrmidons

Ellen: HP 15 (65%) Str 3 (55%) Skl 13 (35%) Spd 16 (28%) Luck 8 (70%) Def 1 (12%) Res 1 (27%) Con 5

Saul: HP 18 (80%) Str 7 (45%) Skl 14 (50%) Spd 17 (53%) Luck 2 (15%) Def 3 (22%) Res 0 (17%) Con 9

Saul would easily win if it wasn't for his luck, but both still start off amazingly. Ellen join at chapter 2 with a base dodge of 40. She'll easily be a dodge tank from start to finish, as her speed will still be growing (she'll max it unpromoted still), and her luck is still amazing. Her low str will easily catch up, making her only problem defense, but with her dodging that won't be much of a problem. Saul's still a pretty nice powerhouse if you give him a killing edge (I had him start with one since Rutger's an archer), and again has great growths all around except luck.

I'll post more later if anyone cares. Sophia the wyvern rider has pretty good growths, I'll say that.

[Best Class Changes]

Well I don't think I would actually change the growths but that does make sense. Just unfortunate that brigands/pirates/zerkers have such bad growths (the bases are fine). Brigands do get their mountain movement ability though, but choosing pirate seems easier.