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Postgame Part 2! (Part 3) it's finally done @CT075 - Catwoman, the RAT TrackerFollower BPV Neighbour As I said in postgame part 1, the game was basically built around this role and the other neighbour. Adding the BPV to the Neighbour roles was a late decision; I think I just decided overall that RAT would just be too much at BAT's mercy without it given that they had the hooker. I think it was a good decision overall although essentially giving half the scum a BPV also meant it was significantly less likely that town would correctly vig someone. I will say though that "mutually assured protection" was probably my favourite rolewriting pun so that brought me a lot of pleasure. There was a version of the setup where this was a Rolecop and Eury's role was a Godfather instead of a Sneak, but I felt that Sneak was more symmetrical to Empowerer, and given that the Friendly Cop was 1x, Sneak would be an overall more useful action than GF. In hindsight maybe the scumteams were a little TOO symmetrical in a way that made it easy to rolespec at the end, but I'm also not sure it was avoidable given the central idea. Cam, I've spoken a lot already about how I thought it was the wrong move to shoot Eury N2 so all I'll add is I think you could have bet on yourself a bit more to be able to lynch Aster in thread, and she was the Hooker, not Eury. I also think it was the wrong move to leave Boron alive N3. Yes she was a Tree Stump, but you would have still had to kill her at some point, and by leaving her alive you were forcing yourself to dedicate your role towards disabling her. Putting aside that it didn't end up mattering because of the Gunsmith, I think you also could have been caught out just from like, not correctly having someone's action from a tracking perspective. I think you would have heavily forced yourself into a 1v1 on D5 even if you hadn't been lynched/vigged on D4/N4, in a way that wasn't really necessary. Plus, Bartozio was lynchable and while you were probably banking on being able to lynch Elie, you have to give yourself allowance as scum for someone you thought was an easy ML ending up having a very town role. Nobody on town really pointed this out, but at least from an informed perspective I think all this also just led to you sort of flailing on D4. The Elie push on D4 post-gunsmith claim I thought was very blatantly scum-motivated. @Bluedoom - V, the RAT Empowerer Motivator As I said earlier, both non-neighbour roles had one ability that both countered the other team's neighbour as well as a townie. They were also meant to be like a pseudo 1x, in that you could use them without being afraid of wasting the role but it would actually only be impactful once. Arguably the risk of wasting it is quite large so I think this was a pretty significant buff over 1x. The motivate also fit sort of thematically with the empower, and I think while there's some empowerer/safeguard overlap, both empowerer and motivator were feasible fakeclaims depending on the gamestate. Marth, I feel like you've definitely had better scumgames than this? I know you've also played occasionally off-site and I assume you must have rolled scum then once or twice. I just think that in the slow RVS period, you felt like you could lurk and do nothing as scum. You were maybe a bit unlucky to be the lurker of first choice but I feel like that beginning period just kind of put you into this lurk zone that you never broke out of even though you actually had more posts than I realized. As a guy who frequently gets wagoned for questionable reasons even as town, the lurkscum strat probably isn't good for you tbh. @Aster - BAT Multi-Hooker BPV Neighbour Flavour-wise, this was originally supposed to be Green Arrow and there was a joke about how Catwoman was rebounding with discount-Batman. That was back closer to when I cared about the Arrow TV show, and when I was reviewing the setup I was like wow there's only one woman here. It turns out vigilanteism is very male-coded, but this was a relatively easy flavour-swap and I found the lesbian angle funny as well in case anyone Coronered one of the neighbours and tried to flavour-spec. "I've been compromised, I got red" was also a funny flavour line so overall very happy with my decision to swap Black Widow in. Role-wise, one of the neighbours being a hooker was basically the first thing I settled on. Honestly I mostly added the multi part to jazz the role up a bit because I thought plain hooker was a bit simple, but I think it also added an interesting dimension of "when if ever should I use this aspect". Originally there was no limit to the number of people you could target, but I felt 3 was a good sweet spot just from a street-fighting mathematics perspective. Aster, it's tough to be scum in your first game! Everything I said to DF also applies to you. Role-wise, I think you just shared a little too much with Cam for no reason. Beyond just that hooking Cam N2 was a bad move because you needed the kill, TELLING him that basically is what caused him to decide to shoot Eury. You can have the intention to partner with someone but if you're also dicking them over then are you really partnering with them, and will they want to partner with you? And if you're intentionally dicking someone over then don't tell them lol. You're probably not going to be in this specific situation too often in NOC, but if you ever play OC or EiMM those kind of interactions are very important to consider. @Eurykins - BAT Sneak Thief Similar stuff here as the other non-neighbour role. Honestly I was sort of struggling with what second ability to give this role, partially because I felt like Multi-Hooker could be so potentially strong in lategame that I wanted the secondary ability for this role to be fairly weak. I made decisions with how Gravedigger worked and Inventor instead of JoaT just to essentially give Thief something to do. In hindsight I think this flipping made Inventor too townie in a way that it wasn't supposed to be and I either needed way more item roles (defeating the purpose of this being a minor role) or for this to be totally different. I couldn't (and still currently can't) think of what that would be in a way that wouldn't break the symmetry or be too strong. Eury never ended up using the Thief but she almost used it over Sneak a bunch of times and did a bunch of speccing about how maybe everyone had items and how they were connected to role. This was partially my fault from a flavour perspective because of how I wrote the Sneak action to be tied to the Death Note, but also even if that hadn't been the case it's true that this role would have really had no idea that the Thief was mostly meant to be filler. Eury, I think you mostly played well, I just have a lot of notes here because of how impactful your decisions were on the game. Early on, I think you were trying to cosplay as your town self in a way that seemed artificial. Your first wallpost when the game was still basically in RVS seemed SO fake because DF had made like three RVS posts and you made a giant wall about it. It got better as the game went on and there was legitimately more content to wall about, but there were still parts where I felt like scumnori had entered your body? There was a lot of bold and CAPS LOCK in the Elie arguments that felt like they were there just to take up space. I guess credit in that it mostly worked because only Percy suspected you and most people started skimming you, but I think your next scum game people might be a little bit more attuned to this. I think you did better a few days in but I felt you could have coached Aster a little more? Maybe given her one or two simple tidbits to point out. Role-wise, I'm putting commentary on both roles' actions here since you were more experienced. Outside of telling Cam about him potentially being a target, I think even just the decision to 3x hook on N2 was not good. I think "we're allying with Cam" was sort of too short-sighted a way to think of the relationship when you could not win together. N2 might have been too early for the backstab, but N5 would almost certainly have been too late. Especially since you were mostly firing the hook blind, I think it either should have been used N1 for maximum chaos, or you needed to save it as the anti-RAT trump card with the Empowerer dead. Also, I was baffled by the N2 decision to Sneak yourself to kill Percy but then let Aster visibly hook him. You could have just sneaked Aster to both hook and kill Percy and it would have let you avoid any tracker/watcher shenanigans. Aster got lynched D3 anyways but there was a world where if Jamie hadn't visited Boron she would have been seen as the only target on Percy and been lynched on a "guilty" even though she hadn't actually done it, so that was just an unforced error. Also I realized I never shared the action spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OqURWzQIV89T_xGnbMoeal9nAYjZdX0er8h0lzpMRMQ/edit?usp=sharing

Postgame Part 2! (Part 2) Yeah so I'm just gonna do like 1/3rd at a time idk @Sunwoo - Robin Hood, the LoVE Watcher Watcher is the first role I ever had on SF so I've always had somewhat of a soft spot for it but I find it typically to just be too strong in terms of being both an investigative role and pseudo-protective role, so I added the condition where it fails if it's visited by someone else. According to Boron this same restriction existed in Mystery Mafia 2, which I don't remember but I probably would have at the time I made this setup. The idea is that you can't protective-role circlejerk by having the watcher and doctor (or in this case Martyr) target each other. In hindsight though, this was maybe too strong a restriction given that it was a Martyr and not a Doctor and scum also had a Sneak, although Boron did also get pretty unlucky. For what it's worth though, the LoVE Safeguard and RAT Empowerer would have both been exceptions to the restriction, and also prevented the role from failing if another person also targeted the Watcher. The idea behind a scum role also not blocking it is so that the Empower/Motivator role basically couldn't soft-hook the Watcher the way Cam did with TrackerFollower. Also, this restriction did essentially make it so that it couldn't be found out by the scum investigative role, so that's something to note. Cam did actually target Boron N1 and didn't get anything useful because the act of doing so caused Watcher to fail. Boron, you played a good game. As I said earlier, you got around to the right reads in the end and probably more importantly, you were huge in preventing the thread from stagnating on D2 and D3. I applaud the effort but I think you spent a bit too much time trying to hunt for meta from like 5 years ago. My main notes would be more regarding your role actions/claims. While it didn't end up mattering ultimately, it wasn't the right move to claim D3. I get your frustration, but the scum Sneak had just died, which meant that you could assume that the main scum counter to your role was gone. If Elie hadn't been around to make you a vig, you would have essentially ensured your role being softhooked (or hardhooked if the scum hooker was active) for the rest of the game, whereas otherwise you could have potentially gotten a valuable result on N3. I also understand the Bartozio vig, but I think I probably wouldn't have vigged him right after he led a successful wagon on scum, even though he could have been the other scumteam. @j00 - Lelouch Lamperouge, the LoVE Martyr The main protective role of the game. Once I decided to have no docs, this was the next choice. I did briefly consider some sort of limited-use Blacksmith because I liked it as a mirror to Gunsmith, but I just didn't want that much kill-stopping power and I felt that the Inventor Commute item was sufficient. I did have a thing here where the Martyr could only redirect any player's actions once. Not really relevant for kills obviously, but I wanted to avoid a thing where the Martyr could just keep drawing hooks or something and act as a pseudo-safeguard with less risk. j00, no real notes. You could have been a bit more active D1 but real-life stuff so I get it. Post-RVS you correctly identified scum and helped get them lynched D1 and then got killed N1. The perfect town game! Weapons wasn't a terrible target but I think just because of his playing style he probably wasn't the most likely NK either. If not Shinori, probably Boron or even maybe Cam or Eury although they were actually scum might have been better targets from an uninformed POV. @WeaponsofMassConstruction - Batman, the LoVE Inventor I've always liked Inventors as sort of delayed JoaTs. Honestly only really the Kevlar Suit and Magnifying Glass were useful items, the others were kind of there as filler and to add some more targeting actions. Weapons, I'm not sure if this was my fault in terms of how I wrote the role PMs or you borrowing my reading skills, but I don't think you ever understood how the Kevlar Suit worked? Other than not realizing it also blocked kills, I think you thought that it would immediately protect them that night, when it was something they would have had to use themselves on a following night to receive the benefit. In terms of your in-thread play, I think you had decent reads for most of the game, although I'm not sure why you dropped your suspicion of Cam near the end. I just always feel like you can be a bit more direct in terms of asking people questions, where sometimes it seems you're just stating opinions. @JamieIsBored - Blade, the LoVE Reviver Jamie called this Vampirizer and maybe that would have been more apt than Reviver? The main purpose of this role was to just give town more soft thread control by making it so that scum didn't just dominate the thread discussion after a few days if things were going badly for town. I did consider letting the tree stump vote as well but thought that would be too strong. Jamie, I think you played decently but were just a little too tentative? I know it can be hard on a new forum but I think as a more experienced player (and afaik with no personal emergencies happening, my apologies if there were) you could have been a bit more aggressive in the early days. I was also really confused by some of your rolespeccing, particularly regarding a Bus Driver. There was absolutely no evidence that anyone had been redirected and a scum had literally flipped with the ability to hook multiple people at once. I felt for a while like it was going to lead you down some bad paths and almost made you lynch DF, but in the end you made the decisive hammer. @Percivalé - Zorro, the LoVE Safeguard I really tried to make Safeguard happen, but alas I think without being informed it was just too risky to ever use, especially since there was never an investigative roleclaim that survived. Ideally if Beeboat hadn't been lynched D2 for example, Safeguard could have targeted them N2. I also made it so that it wouldn't have triggered Watcher fail condition, and blocked a bunch of the scum roles, and could target dead players as a "safe" target to block Thief, but alas. Percy, I mentioned it in the graveyard briefly, but yeah you had among the best reads but just didn't push them enough in time and then died. Outside of the consolidation vote on Beeboat you voted and were suspicious of basically only scum all game. You just have to be embody the mindset of the SKs you like playing as so you're not as worried about being wrong...

Postgame Part 2! (Part 1) With the photos btw, I only looked them up last second while sending out the role PMs. I sent them out in order of signup. It took me until the 3rd or 4th one to figure out a theme (photos with edgelord quotes), so Yuri Lowell (first one) has a sort of different tone and Light (the second one) doesn't have a quote. I also couldn't find a very good one for Lelouch and this was right after the Trump assassination attempt so I was like uhh better stop with some of these searches. It was also hard to find a good one for Joker as a silent protagonist and Robin Hood, who wasn't supposed to be a furry. @Bartozio - Archer, the LoVE Gravedigger I mostly created the roles and then decided after which characters would be which roles, but I did specifically create Gravedigger for Archer, since Gravedigger is one of my favourite roles. This was pretty non-traditional however, in that Archer had to visit his targets before they died, as opposed to just targeting any dead player every night. I thought it was more of an interesting twist and required more thought behind it. I felt this also had the potential to be among the strongest roles with good targeting, so the idea of creating items allowed Thief to be able to mess with it a bit more and prevent it from just stockpiling items. Bartozio, I thought it took you a while to get going, but like I said I thought your wagon on Aster was integral to town winning the game. I don't think you played badly early, just had really wrong reads? I think once you got to D3 and suspicion on you died down for a bit, you were able to do better, so I think the next step is for you to become better at defending yourself with less energy so that you can simultaneously scumhunt as well. @DefyingFates - Joker, the LoVE Ascetic. Ascetic served a few purposes- firstly, given that I expected Friendly Cop to generate two clears, I wanted a slot that couldn't be cleared. Secondly, DefyingFates was new and didn't do it, but Ascetics typically claim up-front. I wanted to prevent the Watcher from faking Ascetic to avoid being targeted until they got a guilty. As it ended up, not claiming worked out- it drew Hooker N1 and was never targeted by any town roles. DF, obviously it was your first game and it's tough. A bunch of people sent you some guides and advice on what to do when starting out, so I'd suggest reading those if you haven't already. Like people said, I think the biggest thing when you're first starting is just to try and ask people questions about why they're doing what they're doing, and don't be afraid to vote. You can always unvote and change things around, and it's an important part of showing your thought process. Now that you've played, hopefully it'll be easier for you going forward to try and see what's scum intent based on how you saw scum act vs town act. @Elieson - Dexter Morgan, the LoVE Gunsmith Once I decided I did want a Vig in the game, I had to decide what kind of role they should have, since a regular 2x vig or whatever would be too simple. I briefly considered CPR Doc as a funny role people don't use enough (imagine if Bart had survived!), but I thought Gunsmith was better thematically. Once I settled on that, the match with Dexter was probably my favourite flavour in the game. If it hadn't been, I might have tried editing the role to be for Dexter the scientist instead. Elie, I mean... you played well when you were actually playing! You were wrong on Marth, but you correctly pegged Eury and Cam as scum even if some of the reasoning was wrong. I really don't understand why you were so anti the Neighbour concept. There was a while where I was like "is Elie really going to flake two games in a row" but you came back! I wasn't sure why you idled so long, but the Boron target was an inspired decision once she claimed. Just play more man. @Grace / @beeboat - Harry Dresden, the LoVE Friendly Cop I expected people to hostspec and assume I would give Harry Dresden a strong role, and was like yolo I'm gonna do it anyways. This was another role I created specifically with the character in mind. It was funny that the last two characters remaining unpicked were Harry and Black Widow, and Grace decided not to care which one to pick, since there might not be a bigger role swing between this and the scum neighbour. I think this role was maybe a bit too good, but others thought it wasn't that much of an improvement over just 1x Cop so shrug. With the Watcher restrictions, this was really the main town info role, and obviously I did not expect this role to ever be lynched. Grace, hopefully you're feeling better, and I wish you'd gotten to play more. Beeboat, hopefully you also get to play again in a more traditional game. That being said, I was a bit disappointed that you never even really tried, even if you found multiball hard. I had to prod you so much and if I hadn't messaged you an hour before the phase ended, I don't think you would have even claimed before dying. @Shinori - Yuri Lowell, the LoVE Mayor This role was originally supposed to be a Town Lyncher, where it gained abilities every time it was on the final wagon at the end. However, I decided that it was too similar to Gravedigger in terms of how it got stronger as the game went on. I still wanted it to have something to do with voting so I made it a Mayor instead. I disabled the ability after D3 (essentially around when *YLO would probably start) so that it didn't become too obvtown, but would still help the town to reduce scum thread control if they coordinated totally at the start. Shinori, I still don't really understand why you were hiding your role. I feel like if you had survived longer and then sprung Mayor on the game, that could have backfired on you just as likely as you could have surprised scum. I guess you never really NEEDED the extra vote since your desired wagon was already leading, but it could have been something that increased pressure early and got things out of RVS more quickly. Beyond that, you were the most active D1, helped give advice to the newbs, and pushed scum D1, so good job. Okay I'm tired so I'll post more on Sunday probably since I'm going to be busy tomorrow.

Postgame Part 1! This is more focused on general game design and thoughts on how the game went, while Part 2 will have full role PMs and player analysis. Game Design Gameplay Comments MVP: Sunwoo / Boron for keeping town going on D2 and D3 and coming to all the right conclusions in the end. Honorable mention to Cam, who I think played a stellar in-thread scum game, but just made one too many mistakes with night actions. Turning Point: Cam shooting Eury N2 was definitely the biggest swing of the game. Honorable mention to Bartozio leading the Aster wagon on D3, which I think was the single best town scumhunting of the game. Most Memorable Moment: Bartozio being misvigged and killed by scum at the same time. Honorable mention to town lynching a Friendly Cop. I'm not sure off the top of my head I can remember an alignment cop or friendly townie ever being lynched, and town did both at the same time!

I'm working on a full postgame, if you want quick questions answered, everyone should now be able to view the Discord graveyard chat.

As your numbers dwindled but the paranoia increased, you finally decided on a last-minute switch... CT075 has been lynched! He was Catwoman, the RAT TrackerFollower BPV Neighbour. Well, it doesn't seem like Catwoman was a very good girl. And with that, only the League of Vigilante Extremism remains! DefyingFates has survived! He was Joker, the LoVE Ascetic. (I can't figure out how to make this picture less obnoxiously large gg) Elieson has survived! He was Dexter Morgan, the LoVE Gunsmith. Sunwoo has survived! She was Robin Hood, the LoVE Watcher. WeaponsofMassConstruction has survived! He was Batman, the LoVE Inventor. JamieIsBored has survived! He was Blade, the LoVE Reviver. Congrats to LoVE for conquering all, and congrats to SF Town 2.0 for remaining undefeated.

HAMMER STOP TALKING

Mod Votals - 4.3 DefyingFates (3): JamieIsBored, WeaponsofMassConstruction, CT075 (L-1!) CT075 (2): Sunwoo, DefyingFates Not Voting: Elieson Day 4 will end in approximately 1 hours and 7 minutes, on July 26th at 6PM EST. With 6 alive, it takes 2 to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer.

Mod Votals - 4.2 CT075 (2): Sunwoo, DefyingFates DefyingFates (2): JamieIsBored, WeaponsofMassConstruction Elieson (1): CT075 Not Voting: Elieson Day 4 will end in approximately 9 hours and 22 minutes, on July 26th at 6PM EST. With 6 alive, it takes 2 to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer.

Mod Votals - 4.1 Elieson (1): CT075 CT075 (1): Sunwoo DefyingFates (1): JamieIsBored Not Voting: DefyingFates, WeaponsofMassConstruction, Elieson Day 4 will end in approximately 18 hours and 46 minutes, on July 26th at 6PM EST. With 6 alive, it takes 2 to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer. Just a note that previously I had incorrectly put that it was 3 to lynch at deadline, but 1/3rd votes can be achieved with 2 people.

It is now Day 4. Day 4 will end in approximately 48 hours, on July 26th at 6PM EST. With 6 alive, it takes 3 to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer.

Another night ends, but this time you only see one dead person. Progress? Bartozio has died! He was Archer, the LoVE Gravedigger. It looks like he's the bones in the graveyard now.

locking actions now

Mod Votals - End of Day 3 Aster (5): Bartozio, Elieson, JamieIsBored, Aster, Sunwoo Elieson (1): CT075 Not Voting: DefyingFates, WeaponsofMassConstruction It turns out what you guys needed wasn't extra time, but just your enemies giving up! Aster has been lynched! She was Black Widow, the BAT Multi-Hooker BPV Neighbour. It seems she's been compromised to a permanent end. It is now Night 3! As a reminder, you cannot speak at night unless otherwise specified. You guys have been pretty good about getting actions in early so to maintain consistent phase end times, I'm going to shorten the night phase since we're down to half the players. Night 3 will end tomorrow at 6PM EST in approximately 21 hours and 10 minutes.

Hammer stop talking while I get home and wrap things up