ruadath

Lol promoted Oscar. I assume you boss abused Zawana?

Paper Jam, I was looking through your playlog for your S-rank run (found here) and noticed that you managed to (almost) meet the EXP requirement for Chapter 18 in 9 turns. If you recall anything about the strategy you used there, I'd love to here it, especially since it looks like your units were overall a bit higher leveled than mine. Even if you could recall only the team members you used (and possible their general level range) I would very much appreciate it.

Honestly, it wouldn't be too bad, since I have all most of my strategies well-documented on this thread. In any case, even if I do complete this playthrough without restarting, I would probably like to do it once more without relying on RNG abuse in Lyn Mode except for Chapters 2 and 7x, where it is necessary (it might even be possible to do it without RNG abuse on the latter one, but I'm not sure). Furthermore, I would probably like to try a similar challenge with ENM at some point. While the EXP requirements are probably a bit easier in ENM, and there is no pressure on Tactics, I think the Funds challenge would be particularly interesting; without the Silver Card or zero-turn Chapters, there are much less opportunities to promote units or use stat-boosters, as this can only be done on defense chapters that you can't end early, or set up via the use of the Hammerne Staff.

Still not getting back to this quite yet, but I think that a restart may not be necessary since I can still purchase an Iron Sword (or 2) on the ship. This should allow me to bring along Raven instead of Lowen, which will hopefully be enough to make getting the EXP score feasible.

FWIW, I played RD before PoR and really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed both the gameplay and storyline, and felt that RD did a good job of making sure the player understood the main plot points of PoR that were relevant to the story of RD even if they did not play the game. That being said, after completing RD, I was left with a strong desire to find out all of the details that were missing in my understanding of the overall story from PoR, and purchased a copy of that game. I must say, that while the overarching plot points of PoR were stated in RD (i.e. the good guys win, Ike's backstory, etc.), there were still a lot of plot details that weren't covered in PoR that made playing through the latter very interesting even though I had already beat RD. In summary, while playing PoR first is obviously preferable, I don't think you can really go wrong with playing RD first.

I'm thinking that when I eventually return to this playthrough, I might actually start from the beginning (of Lyn's Mode) for two reasons: 1) to better document my strategies in Lyn's Mode (i.e. screenshots and such) 2) I've realized that it might not be as great an idea as I once thought to promote Sain in Lyn's mode (I'm still unsure though). Although you get an extra (strong!) paladin which helps to clear out certain maps very quickly in the early-mid game of HHM, perhaps it is not worth trading in the ability to essentially deploy your cavs on every map (since you can cycle through Sain/Kent/Lowen to keep their EXP down) What do you guys think?

I have to apologize in advance here, since I know you guys are probably eager to see more chapters completed, but unfortunately I have to do all of the stuff that I've been neglecting while I was playing Fire Emblem for the last month take care of various things and might not be able to return to this challenge for a week or so.

I haven't actually completed the level yet; I'm at the beginning of turn 5 (no one has moved yet) with 618 EXP, a bit over 800 to go. While normally this wouldn't be a problem (and it still might not be), Florina and Lowen cleared off the main deck too quickly in my opinion, killing off all of the level 8 enemies by the end of player phase turn 3. Since the reinforcements are all Lv 4/5, this means Lucius is only getting ~30 EXP a kill, and eeryone else ~15 (if even, Lowen and Oswin are probably getting around 10). Even with Priscilla constantly healing and Matthew stealing (hey, that rhymed!) I don't think there is enough EXP in the chapter to accommodate that low of an EXP/kill ratio...

I've been having some serious trouble with the EXP requirement for Chapter 18, and I think I'm going to have to rethink my strategy for this one. EDIT: Perhaps it would have been a good idea to buy Iron Swords/Axes earlier so I could bring some of the lower level physical characters (i.e Raven/Guy/Bartre) to help out with this. At the moment the only really feasible substitution would be Erk/Lowen or something like that.

Pretty much. You can only attain a maximum of 3 stars on those maps due to failing Tactics, and you can afford to fail Funds to and still get 3 stars (I'm not actually sure whether or not you need to break even to satisfy the Funds rank). Obviously, you can't fail Experience, and you won't fail Combat/Survival. Therefore the only thing to really worry about on those maps is making sure your overall Tactics is still enough for the S rank, and that you don't blow enough funds to not make the S rank. EDIT: Ah, I see your point. There is no need to use it on the Farina chapter. I'll remove it from the poll.

New poll question added.

FWIW I'm not voting in order to not bias the playthrough :)

Wow this is great! It also finally lets me change the topic tags from when I screwed up (didn't realize I needed to put commas between the different tags). Thanks Balcerzak!

Yeah, and Matthew needs to keep a Sword on him, so... Raven/Guy are really out of luck. EDIT: This might be too little, too late, but... I guess Legault brings a sword with him?

I realized upon making preparations for Chapter 18 that I'm running into another issue. Iron Sword uses. I've got 25, 5, 5, and 3, which is not amazing. Thankfully there is the 27 use Steel Sword as well, so Eliwood can wield either that or the 25 Iron Sword, while Raven gets the other one. Lyn has the Mani Katti, and the cavs are just going to have to deal with taking everything on with Lances (or not get deployed). It looks to some extent like Guy (possibly even Raven!) might be out of luck in terms of deployment. Also, for anyone who cares, with that last chapter, Lowen has now overtaken Rebecca in terms of most kills. I'd love to set up a poll for that (who is going to get most kills by the end of the playthrough), but I don't know how, so if someone could help me, that would be cool.A EDIT: It looks like I forgot again, so here it is... Name: Lv.XP HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES Hector: 11.51 29 16 10 14 7 15 3 (C support Eliwood) Oswin: 11.16 29 15 9 6 3 15 5 Matthew: 9.46 24 9 10 18 5 5 1 Serra: 6.06 20 6 7 13 10 4 8 Eliwood: 5.64 20 8 8 11 10 8 2 (C support Hector) Marcus: 2.47 32 16 16 12 8 10 8 Rebecca: 9.21 22 11 9 13 7 7 3 Lowen: 11.47 32 15 10 14 8 11 4 Bartre: 7.95 34 14 7 8 5 5 1 Dorcas: 7.88 34 10 10 8 6 3 0 Guy: 7.30 28 11 17 17 6 8 3 Merlinus: 9.00 22 0 8 9 16 6 2 Erk: 6.66 22 9 9 12 5 3 7 Priscilla: 3.77 BASE Lyn: 8.45 22 9 12 16 10 5 1 Sain: 2.34 34 21 10 18 8 14 4 Kent: 10.34 29 14 10 15 4 10 3 Florina: 9.75 22 12 11 16 12 7 9 Wil: 4.76 21 8 6 7 6 6 1 Raven: 6.16 30 11 14 15 2 7 2 Lucius: 3.86 BASE

On a completely different note, I wonder how much harder this challenge would be with fixed growths. My characters would all be significantly weaker (especially the likes of Sain, Kent, and Lowen) which would make getting these low turn times and saving funds much more difficult, if not outright impossible.

This is a great idea. Unfortunately, I'll have to keep some of those PKs alive (mine tricking this chapter and getting Axereavers), but unarmed PKs should be almost as easy as Axereaver PKs.

Yes, I definitely agree with you here. In fact, depending on how much Spd HHM bonuses the mercs get, Lowen does actually have a chance to double them, which is bad since he wastes more EXP from ORKOing them. Steel Lance!Oswin, however, does just enough damage to put them in a condition where base Lucius can finish them off. This is indeed true, but I do need a mobile unit here, so are you suggesting that I take Sain/Kent instead? I was thinking that Lowen (with his higher Def, lower Spd) could be useful here as a mobile tank on the eastern side. Whatever EXP he gains can hopefully be offset by using Kent in the next few chapters (who is strong enough that his disadvantages compared to Lowen aren't really a big deal).

That is a reasonable point about Wil, but remember that the primary goal of bringing an archer along in this chapter (and even training an archer through the entire game so far) was to get Rebecca to B bows. So she would take precedence over Wil regardless. If experience was an issue (which it still might be, I haven't done any testing yet), the solution will probably be to drop Oswin for Raven; although I imagine that Oswin won't be killing too many things (just feeding them to Lucuis), the slack on his end will probably have to be picked up by Lowen/Kent or someone (since we need multiple kills every turn to deal with the slew of reinforcements), and Raven would be able to kill things. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a problem. Honestly, I don't think Lyn would fair too well, and I would prefer to refrain from RN manipulation as much as possible, especially that kind to increase survivability. Besides, getting Lyn levels is not something I'm particularly worried about; she has all of Chapters 19 and 20 to go berserk with the Mani Katti on the plethora of cavs and knights in those levels, which will probably get her at least 5 levels (to 13), and then quite a few other chapters to push higher. She is also currently at an acceptable level 8, which means she isn't falling behind enemy stats. On the other hand, Lv 5 Eliwood is facing some serious issues. He has relatively low Str of 8, a medium speed of 11 (can't double most things), and an above average defense of 8. He's a balanced unit, but with his low level, he's going to have a hard time damaging things well enough to get kills without having a dedicated kill-feeding unit. This problem will probably be compounded further by the fact that I would like to keep the Rapier unused, so Eliwood won't get the damage boosts against enemies that he needs it against. An idea might perhaps be to give Eliwood the Steel Sword, but this basically ensures that he won't be doubling anything. I'm not sure what I am going to do about him...

No, I'm honestly not too worried about it, it just would have been nice to have Hector kill an extra knight/cav or two in either Chapter 19 or 20. It honestly shouldn't really be a problem. But I basically have to bench Hector for Pirate Ship, because my last Iron Axe is at 16 uses, and Bartre probably wants it in Chapter 20 (alternatively, he could take Dart's Steel Axe, but I'd rather not blow through that if I don't have to). In any case, it is time to decide on a team for the next chapter! For obvious reasons, Hector, Matthew, Florina, and Priscilla are required here. That leaves us a choice of 4 units, one of which I have already decided to be Rebecca, who will enjoy taking out all of the PKs weighed down by Steel Lances. Now that leaves 3 combat units for me to take. Traditionally, I believe that the "optimal" choices that people usually make are Sain, Raven, and Canas. That would indeed be quite a formidable team. However, defense chapters are great for using units who don't normally get much play time... and I feel that I wouldn't fair too badly bringing along Oswin, Lucius, and Kent/Lowen. My reasons: Oswin: He would really do Raven's job better than him. With weapon triangle advantage, higher Def (and Res!), Oswin will be great against the mercs (except he can't double them, but that probably just allows me to feed kills to Lucius). He also is usually too slow to deploy on most chapters, but that really isn't an issue on this one and EXP distribution is essential in this run. I think he'll be excellent here. In particular, he'll be great at stemming the flow of the southern reinforcements, something which Hector might normally do, but can't here. Lucius: What can I say? He's great against the mass of shamans, and won't fair too badly against the mercs' low Res. He's also still at Lv 3, and this is probably one of the best chapters to get him going. With me benching Raven, this probably also is a good opportunity to make an attempt for the Kenneth map you guys all seem to be pushing so hard. Kent/Lowen: A cav is great on this map for mobility purposes (helping Florina deal with the endless waves of reinforcements), and Sain easily meets that criteria. But I think Kent or Lowen are beefy enough that they could handle the job adequately, and gain a significant amount more EXP while doing it (I haven't tested how reasonable the 1400 EXP requirement for this chapter is yet). Sain has terrible Res (same as Lowen), so he won't really handle the Shaman's any better, except that he can probably one-shot them. So what do you guys think? The only objections I could possible see are that 1) Raven and Guy need the EXP on this chapter to get caught up, something I don't believe is true 2) Too many lances. This might actually be the more substantial issue, considering that I only have 2 Iron Lances (both with a solid ~35 uses on them) left, and one Steel Lance. Florina and Oswin obviously need lances, so either Kent/Lowen just hacks it with a sword, or Oswin takes the Steel Lance (hoping that he doesn't burn through too many uses). Or someone could wield Javelins or something (though I probably want both Kent/Lowen and Florina to have those. Raven instead of Oswin could fix this issue, or Sain instead of cavs because he's strong with swords anyway. Thoughts? EDIT: Oswin is probably getting the Steel Lance. That way he and Lucius stand a better chance of killing things.

Here is the updated playthrough: Turn 1: Lowen recruits Canas, Canas moves forward and one space north, Kent and Sain rescue drop Lowen onto the forest. Hector moves west onto the southern path, Raven heads north, and Rebecca visits Anna. 5 RNs are burned; Lowen has the Steel Sword equipped. Enemy Turn 1: The Killer Axe pirate attacks Lowen and misses. The Devil Axe pirate blows himself up on Canas. The Hammer pirate gets double by Lowen and dies; he levels up. Raven reduces a pirate to 1 HP in his counterattack. Finally, the enemy archer, mage, and shaman target Lowen, but only the archer hits. 143 EXP. Turn 2: Lowen takes out the Swordreaver pirate from the forest (Javelin). I burn 2 RN, then Canas kills the Killer Axe pirate from above. And that is a great level for Canas to start off with. He wants to start building up his speed as quickly as possible. I burn an RN, and then Kent takes out the mage from the east, trade-equipping Lowen with the Iron Sword. Rebecca kills the injured pirate, and then Sain takes out the Shaman from above (OHKO with the Iron Axe), and Raven ORKOs the Hand Axe Pirate. Hector visits the southern village for a Devil Axe. 363 EXP. Enemy Turn 2: Damian charges toward the party, but no one is in his range this time. The Halberd pirate attacks Lowen, misses, and gets knocked down to 1 HP. Not nearly as epic as last time, but oh well. He missed Str and Def, but at least he's pulled up his Speed. Another pirate attacks Lowen and dies. Raven slices a pirate down to 2 HP. Two pirates fall to OHKO from Sain's might strength with the Iron Axe. That's a weapon broken in each of the last 3 chapters. Now we only have Hector's 16 use Iron Axe, and less than 20 Hand Axe uses split into 2 weapons. At least Dart will bring a Steel Axe in Chapter 19. The archer misses Lowen. 402 EXP. Turn 3: Hector ORKOs Damian with the Wolf Beil Rebecca kills the Halberd pirate. Lowen and Kent team up to kill the archer... ... and Kent pulls this ridiculous level out of nowhere. Kent detractors, what do you have to say now? Raven kills the pirate, Canas visits the village for a Short Bow, and Sain charges toward the northern village. 658 EXP. Enemy Turn 3: The last northern pirate suicides on Raven, giving a him a good level Raven doesn't really need his speed to be proced right now, as he'll double anything that comes his way. That Str/Def boost is greatly appreciated, however, and this level is definitely a keeper. Three pirates get ORKO'd by Lowen. Annoyingly, a pirate attacks Hector, which drops his WB uses down to 5. Dang it. Oh well, still enough for Uhai and Darin. Rebecca gets attacked by a cav and a nomad Not exceptional, but we aren't planning to use her a ton for much longer. The Str/Spd bonuses are most useful. 730 EXP, so we are in the clear. Turn 4: Rebecca doubles the troubadour (kill) for a useful 3 WExp. Now she is only 21 away from B in bows. Kent gets the Sleep Staff, Sain gets the Lancereaver, and Lowen finishes. (Canas could attack, but we don't want to gain EXP unnecessarily) Not too bad of a chapter after all! (But the wasted Wolf Beil uses bother me). What are your thoughts?

I've got 11 turns, so might as well, right? I think Melth has a reasonable strategy for how to approach that, so I might take a look at that before running 18. I think I pretty much have to do that in order to make the funds rank for that Chapter.

Lol, actually it shows both your tactician stars and your total assets value, both of which you could potentially consider "scores." Furthermore, your epilogue save lets you view turn counts, and the Link Arena lets you view stats. But I do see your point. Nevertheless, I am doing this for the challenge, and I would like to be as complete as possible.

It turns out this discussion might be pointless, as there is actually perhaps a different strategy that could get the 4 turn and get all the treasure (and still keep Rebecca killing the Halberd pirate). Instead of having Sain charge in with the Iron Lance to kill the Swordreaver pirate, Lowen actually has high enough Str to Javelin him to death from the forest. Then Sain and Kent can take out the enemy mage/shaman like normal, and Damian will arrive on the scene without being able to attack anyone. The Halberd pirate will still probably go after Javelin!Lowen (EDIT: In fact, we can simply have Sain/Kent trade equip him with the Iron Sword while they kill mages), but he should be reasonably safe in the forest, (and then Rebecca can kill him later). Damian being at full health won't be a problem, since Hector can just Wolf Beil him to death anyway. By the way, if you are concerned about conserving WB uses, don't be. Darin is the last person I plan to use WB on (along with Uhai, perhaps), and by the start of Chapter 21, I would like the WB to be down to 1 use. Hector has 9 at the moment, so he won't at all be bothered spending 2 of them to kill Damian.

Thanks for the input guys. The extra turn doesn't really help me too much (possibly at all). Remember that I have to 5-star every map where it is possible, so I have to stay within the turn limit for all of those maps. This means taking no longer than 15 turns on Victory or Death, for example, regardless of what my surplus is at that point. The only maps where I can afford extra turns are either those with zero-requirements or defense chapters that can't be ended early. Obviously, I don't need EXP for the zero chapters, and defense maps are usually pretty good about throwing enough enemies at you for you to easily hit the EXP requirements. I definitely agree with you that the Lancereaver isn't super useful for Guy, and I probably wouldn't use it too much anyway (conserve movey). That is a good point for Eliwood. I think you guys are slightly misunderstanding my question, though. I'm not really (extremely) interested in determining the usefulness of this weapon for combat purposes later on or the value in saving an extra turn here. What I'm really after is the fact that this playthrough, in addition to getting maximum rankings, is trying to be something of a completionist run; i.e. I am recruiting all of the characters, visiting all the gaiden maps. In that case, it seems like it would make more sense to go for the treasure, since I haven't missed any yet, and I believe that it is probably fairly possible to grab all of the treasure in the course of the challenge. So I am asking you guys if you would rather have this playthrough grab all of the treasure, or aim for the lowest (reasonable) turn counts while still meeting all of the requirements that I have previously outlined for this run.